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#637205 - 01/19/21 07:06 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Big Sur [Re: TRYUK]
Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 10996
Loc: GA USA
Janice & Bud Offline
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Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 10996
Loc: GA USA
The dual boot options are easy to understand and relatively easy to implement.

However depending upon your workflow they could prove somewhat disruptive regarding your effects library, your DAW and which of the many, many ways you use BiaB. Having said that it is a viable workaround until a patch is available.

Bud
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#637867 - 01/22/21 01:06 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Big Sur [Re: TRYUK]
Registered: 05/19/20
Posts: 1424
Loc: Victoria, BC
Simon - PG Music Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/19/20
Posts: 1424
Loc: Victoria, BC
Dual booting, or reinstalling back to Catalina, is still the best workaround at the moment. We're working on a Big Sur patch, though it will still take some time as we don't want to release something half-baked.

For anyone interested, I did some digging into Big Sur support with other software (and audio hardware) companies, and while I can't name names, of the 11 DAW's we have official tutorials for on our DAW Plugin page, only one third of them (3 out of 9, excluding Garage Band and Logic, of course, as they're made by Apple) support Big Sur 100%.

For the Apple M1 support, it gets worse. Only one single non-Apple DAW on our list has support for it (and that support is still experimental) while a couple others state that it will run with Rosetta2 but with issues.

Generally speaking, the entire audio scene in Big Sur is chaotic, and unless you're using only Apple-developed software you should avoid Big Sur at all costs.
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#639076 - 01/30/21 06:27 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Big Sur [Re: PLS]
Registered: 11/25/20
Posts: 1
Martin6611 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/25/20
Posts: 1
Originally Posted By: PLS
Originally Posted By: TRYUK
I posted about the first issue with BiaB after the Big Sur upgrade on the 13/11/2020. Others have been finding other problems as the weeks go on. It is now 2 months since the first problem was posted by me, followed by others, and still more are coming to light. Surely there could be a build update that took care of at least some of these problems?


+1


++1

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#639174 - 01/30/21 01:41 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Big Sur [Re: Martin6611]
Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 58
Yendog Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 58
Big Sur was released to public on November 12th

2.5 MONTHS ago. frown

Insane.

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#639175 - 01/30/21 01:44 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Big Sur [Re: TRYUK]
Registered: 07/08/19
Posts: 151
Loc: Worcester, United Kingdom
TRYUK Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 07/08/19
Posts: 151
Loc: Worcester, United Kingdom
Never mind a 2021 Mac version, lets just have a fully working version we can use now. Then work on a 2022 version that looks like it was actually designed for the Mac.
_________________________
M1 iMac 24” 2021 - Monterey 12.0.1

BiaB UltraPak+ 2021 Mac, (515) + pretty much everything extra.
Yamaha SLG200N - Nektar Impact LX49+ - Logic Pro X - 10.7.1

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#639200 - 01/30/21 04:59 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Big Sur [Re: TRYUK]
Registered: 06/09/09
Posts: 43
Loc: Windsor, Ontario, Canada
keyboard Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/09/09
Posts: 43
Loc: Windsor, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: TRYUK
Never mind a 2021 Mac version, lets just have a fully working version we can use now. Then work on a 2022 version that looks like it was actually designed for the Mac.


+1
_________________________
2019 16-inch 32gb 1TB
Latest Big Sur Update 11.4
BIAB Version 2021 (504)
64 bit application

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#639228 - 01/30/21 06:16 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Big Sur [Re: TRYUK]
Registered: 12/18/20
Posts: 24
CrvsCrx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/18/20
Posts: 24
It would be good to have an Apple dedicated company building this software. BIAB was birthed on Windows, as you can tell by the UI on the Mac version.
Good for me I only used it for play-along, do not compose on it. Since November I have found some alternatives. I would remove it from my machine for a refund.

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#639428 - 01/31/21 08:50 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Big Sur [Re: TRYUK]
Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 644
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
Mike Halloran Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 644
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
Originally Posted By: TRYUK
Never mind a 2021 Mac version, lets just have a fully working version we can use now. Then work on a 2022 version that looks like it was actually designed for the Mac.
So what?

Apple announced in 2012 that the MacOS would 64 bit only by 2015. Well, that didn't happen—Apple kicked the can to 2019. But, when Catalina was released, many apps were still incompatible including 5 that I use to make a living (BIAB was compatible by the release date, however). Couldn't update till that was addressed. All but one of my bread & butter apps were compatible by October, 2020 so that's when I switched.

A year later, Apple made major changes again as they begin the transition to Apple Silicon. Even if BIAB was compatible, 3 others I use to earn my keep are not… again. Expect this to keep on for a few more years.

I maintain two externals, one for Mojave to run my remaining 32bit app and another for Big Sur. As I've mentioned before, I have my reasons for using externals instead of additional APFS volumes on my iMac Pro's System drive.
_________________________
BIAB 2021 Audiophile, 18 Core iMac Pro/4TB/128GB Monterey; 2012 MBP Catalina
Digital Performer 11, LogicProX
Finale 27, Dorico 3, Encore 5.0.7, SmartScore Pro 64 Notion 6, Overture 5

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#639471 - 02/01/21 06:08 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Big Sur [Re: Mike Halloran]
Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1106
justanoldmuso Offline
Expert

Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1106
my perspective.
haveing worked in IT for more than a few years , and darn glad to be out of it, my perspective is , IT is a mess.
particularly at the end user level.

lots of employer orgs get high turnover because they try and hire teks "on the cheap ", because snr mgt/ceo's wanna make their yearly millions, and pay teks as little as possible.
a lot of orgs are like this. ie trickle down economics.

so, often, the budget of the IT dept is starved, so they cant hire the right people or buy the right tech, cos word gets around among teks the bad employers to stay away from.
seen it many times, haveing worked all over the world.

probably one of the worst IT jobs to have is network mgt.
ie the network goes down , and all sorts of insane preassure is put on the network teks by end users to bring it up fast.
or the other situation is where all the teks know a new system will take 3 yrs to develope, and the ceo (with no tek experience) says "your all fired if you cant do it in 6 months", and then wonders why the teks leave, and cant be replaced easily.
anyone who has worked in tek knows all the horror stories
i speak of.
my doc told me my health improved hugely once i "got out of the mad career". lol.

frankly i have no allegiance to any platform.
all platforms have pros/cons.
if next week 60 buk raspberry pi went to 6 ghz and ran reaps and logicx and biab flawlessly, i would be all over it.
same if apple brought out a hyper fast system running the above apps that fit within my few hundred buks budget.

but, until then i have no choice but to buy cheap refurb
systems.
yes i could afford to buy a high end system costing a couple of grand but refuse to do so , due to ongoing obsolescence
factors/concerns.

frankly i feel for teks dealing with new OS versions
on any platform in any industry. been there , done that
in various industries.
these are good nice people at pg from what ive seen probably doing their very best to keep us users happy.

i'm still hoping frankly that apple snr mgt see the huge market they are missing by focusing more on high end systems. big sur and the new silicon look great in concept.

frankly one tek device that gets my "tek award" currently is the cheap under 100 buk amazon fire tablet.
i love the thing for researching new gear and surfing the net etc.
WHAT PEOPLE WANT IS AFFORDEABLE TEK LIKE THIS. imho.
very clever of amazon imho.
my other award is to the audient evo i just got and testing out. its doing a great job for me so far. but time will tell.
note, havent tried it , but runs on ios apparently.

best.
muso.






Edited by justanoldmuso (02/01/21 06:21 AM)
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#639496 - 02/01/21 08:29 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Big Sur [Re: TRYUK]
Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 644
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
Mike Halloran Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 644
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
In English?
_________________________
BIAB 2021 Audiophile, 18 Core iMac Pro/4TB/128GB Monterey; 2012 MBP Catalina
Digital Performer 11, LogicProX
Finale 27, Dorico 3, Encore 5.0.7, SmartScore Pro 64 Notion 6, Overture 5

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#639504 - 02/01/21 08:47 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Big Sur [Re: TRYUK]
Registered: 12/18/20
Posts: 24
CrvsCrx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/18/20
Posts: 24
BIAB 2020 for Mac is sold as a program that is compatible with OS Catalina. I am running it on Catalina... Are you certain this is not a beta version? It is so full of bugs and so cumbersome to use. Try as I may I cannot get a D.S. al Coda. I have read the posts, watched the videos, does not perform. It should not be this hard to create an ending. That is not the only flaw. Some talk about running peripherals etc... Don't want to deal with tech crap, just want to make backing tracks to improvise over. This program makes that very hard. Now that it is not functional with the latest operating system on Mac, having to run dual boot further complicates what should be enjoyable. Hey PG Music... How about fixing BIAB for Mac so that it functions in a satisfactory manner on any Apple OS, that way the normal non egghead musician types, such as myself, can use it?

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#639689 - 02/01/21 11:57 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Big Sur [Re: CrvsCrx]
Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 644
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
Mike Halloran Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 644
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
Originally Posted By: CrvsCrx
BIAB 2020 for Mac is sold as a program that is compatible with OS Catalina. I am running it on Catalina... Are you certain this is not a beta version? It is so full of bugs and so cumbersome to use. Try as I may I cannot get a D.S. al Coda. I have read the posts, watched the videos, does not perform. It should not be this hard to create an ending.

What did PGM Support say when you contacted them? You did contact them on this, right?

I’m not having that problem, for example.
Quote:
…Now that it is not functional with the latest operating system on Mac, having to run dual boot further complicates what should be enjoyable. Hey PG Music... How about fixing BIAB for Mac so that it functions in a satisfactory manner on any Apple OS, that way the normal non egghead musician types, such as myself, can use it?
Completely separate issue and your rant doesn’t make the two one.
Quote:
That is not the only flaw. Some talk about running peripherals etc... Don't want to deal with tech crap, just want to make backing tracks to improvise over. This program makes that very hard.
… Hey PG Music... How about fixing BIAB for Mac so that it functions in a satisfactory manner on any Apple OS, that way the normal non egghead musician types, such as myself, can use it?
BIAB is a tool like any other. You’ll get the most benefit by learning it. No software is perfect but if it isn’t working the way you need, it helps to work with support, watch the videos and read the manuals and help files — like the rest of us.

I’m definitely not an egghead music type, just a user. True, I’m knowledgeable about Macs and the apps I use but not because I love the tech —just the opposite. The more I learn, the easier it is to get my work done. Stuff that doesn’t do the job gets in my way and I hate that.
_________________________
BIAB 2021 Audiophile, 18 Core iMac Pro/4TB/128GB Monterey; 2012 MBP Catalina
Digital Performer 11, LogicProX
Finale 27, Dorico 3, Encore 5.0.7, SmartScore Pro 64 Notion 6, Overture 5

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#639690 - 02/02/21 12:55 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Big Sur [Re: TRYUK]
Registered: 02/03/18
Posts: 25
Loc: Germany
PLS Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/03/18
Posts: 25
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: TRYUK
Never mind a 2021 Mac version, lets just have a fully working version we can use now. Then work on a 2022 version that looks like it was actually designed for the Mac.


+1

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#639699 - 02/02/21 04:26 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Big Sur [Re: TRYUK]
Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 7294
Pipeline Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 7294
Don't worry there will be another Mac version out next week to screw up developers again. Why can't they just make a version of Mac that everything will just work and keep working, run 32/64 bit and PPC apps. Why do we all have to run behind Apple rather than them running behind us ? Are they really making our lives easier ? Does the sound from a Biab song sound better on Sur than Leo ?


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#639724 - 02/02/21 07:14 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Big Sur [Re: Pipeline]
Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1106
justanoldmuso Offline
Expert

Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1106
Mike.
very good points.
my view is , if one sets up a recording rig, then one MUST be prepared to get into the tech to get the best from the rig. and take the bad with the good.
which is why , over the years , recording studios large and small often learnt electronics so they could do such things as fix an input channel on an audio mixing console (eg bad op amp) or a circuit card on a 2 inch 24 or 16 trak.
thus , if i get a prob in biab , i just resort to a workaround. but i stll love biab.
only game in town imho even tho i get frustrated sometimes.

this is an interesting thread on big sur i'm following,
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/1317296-macos-big-sur-version-11-share-your-experiences.html

Pipeline.
very good points again. maybe one day we will get slimmed down pro audio OS's . perchance to dream.
what is interesting to note , is, OS problems might suggest somewhat why some studios buy custom computers made for recording studios.
like this that i lust after lol >>
https://pcaudiolabs.com/rok-box-mc-x-series/
there are several vendors building custom studio pc's (see gearslutz.com)
ie you just turn the key. everything is optimised for recording work. includeing OS, recording software installation and sound device installation etc etc.
notice pcaudiolabs say they do lots of tweaks/optimise.
lots of big budget studios are getting big trak counts and plug in counts with the above types of custom systems.

best.
muso


Edited by justanoldmuso (02/02/21 07:18 AM)
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#639870 - 02/03/21 01:35 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Big Sur [Re: TRYUK]
Registered: 07/08/19
Posts: 151
Loc: Worcester, United Kingdom
TRYUK Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 07/08/19
Posts: 151
Loc: Worcester, United Kingdom
I see Big Sur 11.2 is now available. I wonder what impact this will have on the work being done to make BiaB work?
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BiaB UltraPak+ 2021 Mac, (515) + pretty much everything extra.
Yamaha SLG200N - Nektar Impact LX49+ - Logic Pro X - 10.7.1

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#639984 - 02/03/21 02:47 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Big Sur [Re: TRYUK]
Registered: 05/19/20
Posts: 1424
Loc: Victoria, BC
Simon - PG Music Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/19/20
Posts: 1424
Loc: Victoria, BC
I've got 11.2 on my iMac and it hasn't changed any of the issues with BIAB - either for the better or for worse. Looks like that update won't affect our development, but as I'm not the programmer this answer is at best an educated guess.
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#640044 - 02/03/21 05:13 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Big Sur [Re: CrvsCrx]
Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 58
Yendog Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 58
Yea I'm beyond frustrated.

I actually tried to do some composing of a backing track with a "form" the other day and it was screwing up SO badly. And since the program basically doesn't function on many levels I can't be sure if it's something I'm doing or just another flaw in the program.

I just can't imagine that this is a priority over there... its literally more than a 1/4 year later after the release and basic functionality hasn't been addressed at all. If ANY of the problems could have been fixed I don't understand why a patch has not been put out to at least fix ANYTHING.

I've sold this program to probably dozens of folks over the years just from recommendations. And I have lots of students that buy it so we can use it on both ends but how can I recommend it now?

I know there are other programs out there that do a very similar thing... when a program loses much of its basic functionality, no matter HOW it happens or WHO's "fault" it is an they don't fix any of it for over a 1/4 year how can I in good faith recommend that program?

At this point I've spent thousands on this with all the upgrades and real tracks so I'm basically stuck... but every single other program I have (yes even all the non native apps) have been updated to work with Big Sur.

Anyways.. fingers crossed. There have been comments above (and we DO very much appreciate members of PG music coming on and at least acknowledging the thread) that they don't want to release anything until it is just exactly perfect... i'd take a patch that literally just got rid of the purple and did nothing else.. at least it would be some sort of progress to getting the program back.

Again.. it's beyond me.. if I had a product and for a certain segment of users it basically didn't work I would not be sleeping at night, I would be working weekends... i'd be calling in every resource I have... I wouldn't be able to eat.. my entire life would be solving the problem... but maybe thats just me. :-(

Fingers still crossed as yet another week of frustration using this program that I absolutely need for my teaching business goes by.

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#640089 - 02/03/21 10:02 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Big Sur [Re: Yendog]
Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 7294
Pipeline Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 7294
Over 11 years I have had to changed my OS twice from Win7 to Win10.
With all the OS updates every app kept working no matter how old it was. It will run 32 and 64 bit apps and Win95 apps.
Mac is now using PC hardware why the hell can't they make things work and keep working regardless.
I have a Mac but because of this endless issue with Mac I don't use it unless I need to. Honestly, does your life get a whole lot better with each Mac update/upgrade ? Is each update/upgrade amazingly wonderful ?
I go around the web and you see this all the time, a notice for the Mac version download, you need this version to work on that version of Mac, sorry we are still trying to get a version working for the latest version of Mac........... then next month they are doing it all over again.
Sorry guys but I see this happening over n over n over ad infinitum.
What point do you come to and say to apple enough is enough we can't do it anymore ?????
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#640224 - 02/04/21 01:16 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Big Sur [Re: Pipeline]
Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 644
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
Mike Halloran Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 644
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
Originally Posted By: Pipeline
Over 11 years I have had to changed my OS twice from Win7 to Win10.
With all the OS updates every app kept working no matter how old it was. It will run 32 and 64 bit apps and Win95 apps.

We get it. You think that the PC is, for some reason, superior. Many of us, familiar with both platforms disagree.

Quote:
Mac is now using PC hardware why the hell can't they make things work and keep working regardless.
Apple is transitioning away — or haven't you read the news?

Quote:
I have a Mac but because of this endless issue with Mac I don't use it unless I need to.
But you don't like it so who cares?

The only way to get me to use Windows is to pay me. For nearly 20 years, companies did and that was ok and for 10 of them, I did Win support. I don't expect that to be important to anyone but me, however.

Quote:
Honestly, does your life get a whole lot better with each Mac update/upgrade ? Is each update/upgrade amazingly wonderful ?


Absolutely, unapologetically yes! That my desktop, laptop, phone and tablet work together makes my life and work better. With every major upgrade, I've been able to gauge the impact of tighter integration among my devices and the way it benefits me.

The Win/Android clown car has never been able to come close. If it were better, I'd be riding it—as I did for many years professionally.

Quote:
I go around the web and you see this all the time, a notice for the Mac version download, you need this version to work on that version of Mac, sorry we are still trying to get a version working for the latest version of Mac........... then next month they are doing it all over again.
Sorry guys but I see this happening over n over n over ad infinitum.
What point do you come to and say to apple enough is enough we can't do it anymore ?????
Nobody's stopping you. Who's "we"? You don't like the platform so why does your opinion somehow count in this?

Apple and Amazon rival each other as the most valuable companies in the world. At what point do you stop beating this dead horse?

Those are rhetorical questions only. I have no interest in your answers.

There is only one Windows app that I'd like to see on the Mac and that is Real Band. If I wanted it badly enough, I'd fire up my Windows laptop (my last day job told me they didn't want it back since nearly everyone has gone to the Mac) and install it.
_________________________
BIAB 2021 Audiophile, 18 Core iMac Pro/4TB/128GB Monterey; 2012 MBP Catalina
Digital Performer 11, LogicProX
Finale 27, Dorico 3, Encore 5.0.7, SmartScore Pro 64 Notion 6, Overture 5

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Mac Jukebox details found here.

Tell Us Your Favorite Band-in-a-Box Features

Did you know we have a My Favorite Things forum? We'd love it if you shared your favorite features in Band-in-a-Box and RealBand there, along with what features you use the most and why - we absolutely LOVE getting feedback!

Take a peak at other posts while you're there - you never know... someone else's favorite feature might become yours too!

RealTracks Artist Pat Martino

We are saddened to hear of the passing of jazz guitar legend Pat Martino yesterday.

Pat was part of our RealTracks Artist "Jazz Pollwinners 2" series in 2014. You can learn about Pat and listen to his RealTracks contribution here.

Pat had been playing guitar since he was just 12 years old, and devoted himself to music in grade ten. On top of years of performing (he began playing professionally in 1961), Pat received many awards for his playing, including the "Jazz Legacy" Award in 2016 presented by Pennsylvania State Senator Vincent Hughes and his wife Sheryl Lee Ralph-Hughes.

Learn even more about Pat Martino when you visit his website, http://www.patmartino.com/.

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