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#644480 - 02/28/21 05:58 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 278
NigelSpiers Offline
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Hi Guys,

I couldn't agree more with all the points made in this thread.

I also use BIAB every day and love it.

But the key point here is; PG Music - please forget the new features and just concentrate on the things that make BIAB great and different to all competitors i.e.

1. Easy creation of quality backing tracks. (It's been doing a great job of this since day 1).

2. More high quality Real Tracks. (This is the feature of BIAB that keeps your fans loyal).

One last request to PG Music - please don't churn out endless reiterations of the same old Styles - experienced users make their own styles. Concentrate on getting lots of top quality musicians into your studio and lastly - please look at the Real Tracks Wishlist on your web site - often!

Thanks to all the above contributors for their insight, intelligence and experience.

Much Appreciated.

Best Regards
Nigel Spiers

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#644509 - 03/01/21 12:57 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Registered: 08/13/09
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Loc: Derry,Ireland
musiclover Offline
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A sure answer to all these problems would be to have the New Realtracks and other content work with the previous years stable version.

In all honesty this has been going on far too long, add 50 new features but break another 50 working features.

Does PG expect the users to waste time on the now broken features and spent a considerable amount of time updating to fix them?


Edited by musiclover (03/01/21 04:53 AM)
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#644613 - 03/01/21 04:13 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: musiclover]
Registered: 06/25/12
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JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Originally Posted By: musiclover
A sure answer to all these problems would be to have the New Realtracks and other content work with the previous years stable version.

THIS. This is the answer! Give us the option of keeping our existing version and buying the RealTracks each year. I'd even pay the same upgrade price to have this option.

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#644639 - 03/01/21 05:19 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
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MikeK Offline
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The problem is that the current year's version isn't stable yet. Other than that, I could go along with that - meaning, having an option ...

I personally do not endorse the idea, but that's just me. smile
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My Music * PC: Avatar FX8366ice AMD FX-8350(4.0GHz) 16GB DDR3 6TB HDD+128GB SSD HDD Capacity NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 Ti 2GB Win 10 64-Bit. AKAI EIE PRO Sound Interface. BIAB/RB 2021

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#644665 - 03/01/21 08:10 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
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NigelSpiers Offline
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Hi John,

Yes that's definitely the answer - using all new Realtracks with BIAB 2020 or earlier.

I can't think of any technical reason stopping this happening. I would also pay the upgrade price to stay on 2020 and get all subsequent Real Tracks.

Best Regards
Nigel

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#644685 - 03/02/21 04:33 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Registered: 08/13/09
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Loc: Derry,Ireland
musiclover Offline
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Originally Posted By: JohnJohnJohn
Originally Posted By: musiclover
A sure answer to all these problems would be to have the New Realtracks and other content work with the previous years stable version.

THIS. This is the answer! Give us the option of keeping our existing version and buying the RealTracks each year. I'd even pay the same upgrade price to have this option.


I think a big plus with this idea is since its not difficult to have different versions or years of biab on your computer, pg could still release the new version which you could install into a different folder to test, that could be fixed in due course, but in the meantime you would have the old stable version of biab that would still be able to access the newer Realtracks.

As far as I am aware (and have just tried it successfully with Realband 2018) it is possible to do this on a previous years RB, so why not biab as well?

PG music could still have the same prices for upgrades but in the meantime users wouldn't be so frustrated with the new bugs in the program, as they would have old years stable version to work on, and test the new biab at their leisure.


Edited by musiclover (03/02/21 04:54 AM)
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#644688 - 03/02/21 04:58 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Registered: 07/12/00
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Matt Finley Offline
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Just be aware that PG Music has given requirements of the latest version of BIAB to use the latest RealTracks. This suggestion would prevent them from expanding the capabilities of RealTracks.
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#644715 - 03/02/21 07:44 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 08/13/09
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musiclover Offline
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Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Just be aware that PG Music has given requirements of the latest version of BIAB to use the latest RealTracks. This suggestion would prevent them from expanding the capabilities of RealTracks.


Yes that may be true, but though I am not a coder I probably look at that been more of a deliberate Marketing ploy than anything else (Deliberately coded that way)since older RB can access the new realtracks, eg 2018 Realband can access 2020 Realtracks.

Of course using an older version of biab to access the new Realtracks won't give access to the new features, such as Utility tracks etc, but I bet a lot of users would put up with that for the stability involved.

The new version can then be tested at leisure without a good proportion of the users getting frustrated with broken features, that worked on the previous years editiion.


Edited by musiclover (03/02/21 08:20 AM)
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#644726 - 03/02/21 08:26 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Registered: 04/03/09
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Guitarhacker Offline
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All I can say is.... good points.

I've never had issues with the yearly upgrades until this year. My biggest nit is that the GUI is always changed up and I have to figure out where everything from last year is now hidden. Once I got that figured out... I had some issues that were frustrating. For one, both BB & RB were freezing when I would go to close the program. And at times the program would freeze on startup. The update to the latest version fixed those issues. Then I had some other issue that was giving me serious latency. That was simply a matter of going into the preferences and checking the settings and changing to the proper drivers.

Do the updates, check your preferences and if you still have issues, contact support. If they can't solve it, roll back to the last version that was working.


Oh yeah... one more thing.... the age of the computer isn't really an issue. If the computer is 3 years old.... heck... that's practically brand new. You see, mine is close to 15 years old... running Windows XP Pro 32 bit and it runs smooth as glass with an old i5 Intel chip.
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#644747 - 03/02/21 10:19 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: musiclover]
Registered: 07/12/00
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Matt Finley Offline
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Originally Posted By: musiclover
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Just be aware that PG Music has given requirements of the latest version of BIAB to use the latest RealTracks. This suggestion would prevent them from expanding the capabilities of RealTracks.


Yes that may be true, but though I am not a coder I probably look at that been more of a deliberate Marketing ploy than anything else (Deliberately coded that way)since older RB can access the new realtracks, eg 2018 Realband can access 2020 Realtracks.

Of course using an older version of biab to access the new Realtracks won't give access to the new features, such as Utility tracks etc, but I bet a lot of users would put up with that for the stability involved.

The new version can then be tested at leisure without a good proportion of the users getting frustrated with broken features, that worked on the previous years editiion.
I don't disagree; I'm sure marketing plays a part. In fact, I've never tried it, but I suspect older versions of BIAB could load and run most new RealTracks. Only when they have made structural changes such as how cut time is handled, might it pose a problem. But this is just speculation; I don't know without doing experiments.
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BIAB 2021 Win Audiophile & 2020 Mac UltraPak. Software: Studio One 5 Pro, Adobe Audition CC, Notion 6; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam sub & monitors

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#644950 - 03/03/21 04:30 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
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NigelSpiers Offline
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Hi Folks,

While we are on the topic of more Realtracks and and bug fixes and less software development:

High on my wishlist would be an enhanced tempo algorithm that would allow me to increase/decrease the tempo of a Realtrack by more then is currently possible.
If I could change the tempo by 10+ (even up to 20BPM) then that would increase the usefulness of Realtracks significantly.

What do you think?

Best Regards
Nigel

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#644951 - 03/03/21 04:34 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: NigelSpiers]
Registered: 06/05/12
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Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
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I think the idea is good, but the laws of physics might get in the way. There is a limit to how much stretching/reshaping of an audio waveform that can be applied before unwanted artifacts become apparent.
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#644962 - 03/03/21 05:52 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Registered: 07/12/00
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Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
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Yes, 10% is quite a lot to ask, but it depends greatly on what instrument is used.
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#644965 - 03/03/21 06:44 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Registered: 03/07/18
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Rustyspoon# Offline
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"laws of physics might get in the way" LOL!

Ok, I am probably in the minority here... but I like where BIAB is heading with 2021 update. Before rocks fly in my direction,
I think it is a great idea to have RT's backward compatible. At least one prior version. This alone could save a LOT of nerve cells to some who depend or attached to certain features, etc.

...And they will patiently wait until a stable release candidate is available and have whole trunk of new RTs and other content to keep them occupied till then.

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#644975 - 03/03/21 10:12 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
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NigelSpiers Offline
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Hi,

I'm not asking you for your opinion on what you know nothing about.

I'm suggesting something that may benefit all users way more than additional utility tracks or some other dubious software enhancement.

Matt - maybe keep your opinions for where you have something useful to contribute and please stop trying to derail all useful and positive discussions on important matters for all users.

Thanks & Best Regards
Nigel

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#644980 - 03/04/21 01:35 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: NigelSpiers]
Registered: 06/05/12
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VideoTrack Offline
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Originally Posted By: NigelSpiers
Hi,

I'm not asking you for your opinion on what you know nothing about.

Hi Nigel.
I'm interested. Several people contributed to the thread. Who was your reply directed to? If it was me then I'm OK to engage in further meaningdful discussion on any part of my comment.
Look forward to your clarification.
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#644985 - 03/04/21 04:06 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Registered: 08/13/09
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musiclover Offline
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Originally Posted By: JohnJohnJohn
BIAB 2020 was relatively stable but I continue to have lots of problems with BIAB 2021!

- Some saved songs no longer sound right.

- Mixer problems where changing a style does not completely change the tracks in the mixer. I have had to click the generate button 5 or 6 times in order to get the tracks to actually regenerate properly with a new style.

- Bar Settings problems where songs that worked just fine before with a style change at a certain bar now do not work.

- Changing a track and using its DI option then incorrectly sets that track to DI for any subsequent style changes to DI.

- BIAB sometimes "forgets" my audio driver if I switch away to another program and then come back.

These are all NEW problems that I didn't have before "upgrading"! I have not even tried any of the new features because I can only assume they are marginal as well.

I had an older computer (approximately 3 years old) that was slowing down a bit so I blamed the problems on it during December. Then I went ahead and loaded BIAB 2021 on a brand new fast PC and...same problems!

I have reported these problems in the private testing forum and have no idea whether they are even being addressed. I am beyond frustrated with this product. Honestly, if it were not for the RealTracks I would have dumped it off my computer long ago.


JJJ started this thread (and as I see it as he is a big fan of biab, just like myself) its kind of sad that he should feel that he can get so frustrated with the constant merry go round of having to constantly update biab through the year, that he wants to dump it off his computer.

Features that probably worked well before are now broken and will take a good part of the year to get to a stable running version again.

Everyone's time is valuable and that is why the suggestion is being put forward, that the last years stable version should be able to access this years realtracks. Not a big ask since realband 2018 can access 2020 realtracks.

I have not upgraded this year and really pleased that I didn't, when as like other years I see the continuous list of problems since 21 was released in early December.

Life is too busy and time too valuable to be put on this merry-go-round every year.


Edited by musiclover (03/04/21 04:08 AM)
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#644986 - 03/04/21 04:11 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Registered: 07/12/00
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Matt Finley Offline
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Nigel, you commented that you couldn’t think of any reason your idea couldn’t be done. I made two comments. You invited them. As far as I understand, you do not get to dictate how others may respond to your ideas.

But yes, if I could wave the magic wand and abandon physics and precedent, your idea is a good one. Someday the technology may be available to stretch an audio file that far without artifacts. In fact, I recommend you create a new thread so it isn't buried within this one.
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#645107 - 03/04/21 07:45 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 2724
Rustyspoon# Offline
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Just an attempt at constructive thinking.
Seems to me that there are three main solutions to this (I am sure much more than 3 smile )

1) Make RT's backward compatible to some extent.

2)Vigorously test and fix items, perhaps using someone on the side who is trained specifically in locating and fixing conflicts/issues in code before it gets released.

3)Roll out yearly update with minimal set of well tested(!) features (5-10?) and roll others SLOWLY throughout the year, a bunch at a time, with update patch, so there is enough room for testing. Most users know that updates are free for the whole calendar year of current version, so nothing is lost. Seems, not many people care about the quantity of released features. I think stability and a statement that planned updates and fixes are free for current version is a solid marketing statement.

Personally, I think #3 is the way to go.

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#645109 - 03/04/21 08:27 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Registered: 10/21/07
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Loc: Buford, GA
MikeK Offline
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Personally (IMHO), I do not see a need for PG Music to change anything for future releases. People are asking for a LOT of things to be included in the yearly release. Most are addressed.

Keep in mind that there are many users with different setups in regard to their computer system. No way to anticipate ALL that might not work for some, but works for others.

No changes needed. With a limited staff, there is no way there is enough time to account for ALL scenarios. I've had some upsets, but they have all been address. That's why we have updates left and right - and that's perfectly fine with me.

Keep doing what you are doing PG! And, not to mention all the Beta testers. You all do a great job.

Just my penny's worth of feedback.
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My Music * PC: Avatar FX8366ice AMD FX-8350(4.0GHz) 16GB DDR3 6TB HDD+128GB SSD HDD Capacity NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 Ti 2GB Win 10 64-Bit. AKAI EIE PRO Sound Interface. BIAB/RB 2021

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