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#643960 - 02/25/21 05:33 PM [User Showcase] Re: To One In Paradise (Synthesizer V) [Re: dcuny]
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 3713
Rustyspoon# Online   content
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David,
Thank you for explanation. No doubt, synth vocal technology has a significant potential. Miracle for composers to get stuff, as you said: "out of the door" I knew you had been working synthetic singer for some time, that is why I wanted to ask directly to get fuller picture and a sample of philosophy behind usage smile
Thank you.

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#643991 - 02/25/21 11:32 PM [User Showcase] Re: To One In Paradise (Synthesizer V) [Re: dcuny]
Registered: 05/05/18
Posts: 1367
Loc: United Kingdom
musician17 Offline
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I'm going to be 100% honest. That synthetic voice kinda jars with me, sadly. Pity, because the song sounds incredible otherwise ... really great. But that voice jars me and wakes me up from the "light trance" I usually go into when hearing a good song.

That said: I realise the limitations of synth voices - and it's not like I'm Freddy Mercury in the slightest when I sing, either, haha ... so:

(apart from the above mentioned) I really, really enjoyed it. I also really, really "envy" the clarity of mind that you have in your approach, as shown by the way you detailed things above. And the song itself is so well done ... there's a certain amount of complexity in it, in many ways, and you handle it effortlessly. So well written. Sincerest congratulations!
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#643996 - 02/26/21 12:38 AM [User Showcase] Re: To One In Paradise (Synthesizer V) [Re: Derochette]
Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 5119
Loc: Sacramento, California
dcuny Offline
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Originally Posted By: Derochette
Pleasant orchestration. Nice second voice. It's very soft and pleasant to listen to. Well done

Thanks, Derochette.

I appreciate you taking the time to listen and comment!
_________________________
-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?

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#643998 - 02/26/21 12:53 AM [User Showcase] Re: To One In Paradise (Synthesizer V) [Re: Birchwood]
Registered: 09/27/10
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Loc: Sacramento, California
dcuny Offline
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Originally Posted By: Birchwood
It took me a moment to get used to your way of singing here, but then it became more and more interesting.

I'm glad to hear it kept your interest!

Quote:
And what you did with Synthesizer V is also very good. The female vocals sounded very realistic, although they were used in a surreal context. I'm thinking of trying this too.

There's an AI version of some of the Synthesizer V voices, where it can apply pitch fluctuations that it's learned by listening to an actual singer. Unfortunately, that option isn't available for the English version.

But there's a work-around, where you can switch the voice from the English voice to an AI voice (such as the free Saki AI (Lite) voice), select all the notes, apply the Auto Pitch Tuning (now that it's got one of the "AI" voices), and then switch back to the English Eleanor Forte (Lite) voice. It'll keep the values it's written in the Pitch Deviation track.

It's not perfect (I just figured it out last night), but it does a fairly good job.

Thanks for commenting! laugh
_________________________
-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?

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#643999 - 02/26/21 01:03 AM [User Showcase] Re: To One In Paradise (Synthesizer V) [Re: jannesan]
Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 5119
Loc: Sacramento, California
dcuny Offline
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Originally Posted By: jannesan
I have to admit that I'm not familiar with Poe's works, although I have listened to the first Alan Parsons Project album and then later Eric Woolfson's Poe musical songs. But you have nicely captured the mood, and at least the title gives upbeat impression.

Hi, Janne.

I've always liked Tales of Mystery and Imagination, but I think in Poe, Steve Balsamo really knocks it out of the park.

Quote:
Definitely sounds bit like an Aztec Camera song, at least in the chording (Safe In Sorrow) and the instrumentation (drums, piano - other Dreamland songs) and the counter-melody (Sister Ann). Not only because sounding like one of my all time favorite bands, this is really nice pop song with interesting chord changes and very pleasant melody, including the enjoyable counter-melody. The arrangement is lush and the solo sax fits well.

Dreamland is great, but High Land, Hard Rain was probably my favorite album back in the '80s. I played it constantly.

Thanks for your kind comments about the song! laugh
_________________________
-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?

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#644000 - 02/26/21 01:21 AM [User Showcase] Re: To One In Paradise (Synthesizer V) [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 5119
Loc: Sacramento, California
dcuny Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon
I knew you had been working synthetic singer for some time, that is why I wanted to ask directly to get fuller picture and a sample of philosophy behind usage

One of the frustrations with my own software project is that - at this point - the results are actually pretty good, but not what I'd want to use on a song. So I'm not sure I'll ever be able to deliver a usable tool with what I've got. But I'll still probably keep working at it, because it's a technical challenge.

For most people (myself included), I think some voice lessons, good microphone technique and pitch correction software will produce results miles beyond what voice synthesis can do.
_________________________
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My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?

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#644002 - 02/26/21 01:27 AM [User Showcase] Re: To One In Paradise (Synthesizer V) [Re: musician17]
Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 5119
Loc: Sacramento, California
dcuny Offline
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Originally Posted By: musician17
I'm going to be 100% honest. That synthetic voice kinda jars with me, sadly. Pity, because the song sounds incredible otherwise ... really great. But that voice jars me and wakes me up from the "light trance" I usually go into when hearing a good song.

I appreciate your honest response! laugh

Quote:
(apart from the above mentioned) I really, really enjoyed it. I also really, really "envy" the clarity of mind that you have in your approach, as shown by the way you detailed things above. And the song itself is so well done ... there's a certain amount of complexity in it, in many ways, and you handle it effortlessly. So well written.

Thanks!

I keep having to remember that the key to clarity is to remove what doesn't need to be there, no matter how nice it sounds. There are a number of songs where, on listening again, I really regret not taking more out. And on this song, my son chopped out a bunch of things after I did my initial edit, which gave even more space for the remaining instruments to come through.

So I'm glad that came through in the mix!
_________________________
-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?

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#644014 - 02/26/21 04:14 AM [User Showcase] Re: To One In Paradise (Synthesizer V) [Re: dcuny]
Registered: 09/14/05
Posts: 420
Gary Weder Offline
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Registered: 09/14/05
Posts: 420
Hi David .
What you have created here is very impressive. I was interested in Vocaloids a few years ago but the software was very expensive and all of the voicebanks were Japanese so English pronunciation was a problem ( no Jeff Lynne in sight lol ) and so my enthusiasm waned . Now your excellent post has appeared which has piqued my interest again. I am working my way through the UTAU Manual as we speak , trying to get a handle on it all . I can see so much potential with it going forward. Well done putting this production together.
cheers
Gary

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#644065 - 02/26/21 11:15 AM [User Showcase] Re: To One In Paradise (Synthesizer V) [Re: Gary Weder]
Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 5119
Loc: Sacramento, California
dcuny Offline
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Originally Posted By: Gary Weder
What you have created here is very impressive.

Hi, Gary.

Thanks! smile

Quote:
I was interested in Vocaloids a few years ago but the software was very expensive and all of the voicebanks were Japanese so English pronunciation was a problem

Vocaloids tend to have accents, and the resynthesis process only magnifies that. The Dex and Daina voicebanks focus on a more American English accent, and I was toying with the idea of buying the full editor, but I wasn't terribly impressed by the demos, and the price of the full Vocaloid editor always priced me out of the market... even when I had that much money to spend.

UTAU is cool, especially since you can build your own voicebanks. But working with voices requires a lot of low-level tweaking. One nice thing about Synthesizer V is that you have sliders for each phoneme at the syllable level. That makes it a lot easier to tune a word, and even work around errors in the voicebank.

You may be aware that Synthesizer V actually grew from Kanru Hua working on tools for UTAU. He developed his own resampler (resynthesis engine) for UTAU called Moresampler, which is different from most most resamplers available for UTAU. Most UTAU resamplers use crossfades and standard pitch transposition techniques to reassemble the phonemes from the source audio files.

Moresampler performs spectral analysis on the harmonic and inharmonic audio, as well as the vocal pulse. The resynthesis doesn't need to refer back to the original audio. As a result, Moresampler is a lot more flexible in resynthesis, both in in changing the pitch and duration. It also doesn't suffer from as many of the sort of artifacts you get from a lot of pitch shift/time stretch algorithms.

Kanru also came up with a his own reclist (phoneme recording list) method which he called "Arpasing", named because he used the ARPAbet phonemene set instead of SAMPA phonemes that Vocaloid and UTAU tend to use. (The word "Arpasing" confusingly refers to "ARPA" in "ARPABET", not to "parsing").

Because his reclist uses English words, the resulting samples tend to be more realistic than if the phonemes were recorded in isolation. On the other hand, Synthesizer V sounds a bit more "spoken" than "sung".

Anyway, at some point Kanru rightly decided that it would be better to branch away from UTAU and create his own application from scratch. If nothing else, Synthesizer V is a lot simpler to install than UTAU. wink
_________________________
-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?

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#644131 - 02/26/21 07:38 PM [User Showcase] Re: To One In Paradise (Synthesizer V) [Re: dcuny]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 1081
jptjptjpt Offline
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Registered: 06/05/12
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Rather amazing. AI is here. He/she sound pretty good. I really like the song. Lovely melody. Good use of the band too.
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#644149 - 02/26/21 11:35 PM [User Showcase] Re: To One In Paradise (Synthesizer V) [Re: jptjptjpt]
Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 5119
Loc: Sacramento, California
dcuny Offline
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Originally Posted By: jptjptjpt
Rather amazing. AI is here. He/she sound pretty good. I really like the song. Lovely melody. Good use of the band too.

Thanks for taking the time to stop, listen and comment! smile
_________________________
-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?

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#644157 - 02/27/21 04:25 AM [User Showcase] Re: To One In Paradise (Synthesizer V) [Re: dcuny]
Registered: 05/22/11
Posts: 3495
Loc: Florida
tommyad Offline
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Loc: Florida
David, I definitely hear the Jeff Lynne reference in the chord progression. The mix sounds great. Poetry is a excellent idea for a starting point. When the two voices intertwine it is so well done that I consider that the highlight of the piece. Well done again, Tom

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#644199 - 02/27/21 10:29 AM [User Showcase] Re: To One In Paradise (Synthesizer V) [Re: tommyad]
Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 5119
Loc: Sacramento, California
dcuny Offline
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Registered: 09/27/10
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Originally Posted By: tommyad
David, I definitely hear the Jeff Lynne reference in the chord progression. The mix sounds great.

Thanks!

Quote:
When the two voices intertwine it is so well done that I consider that the highlight of the piece

I appreciate you pointing that out. Those harmonies are probably my favorite part. laugh
_________________________
-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?

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#644288 - 02/27/21 09:39 PM [User Showcase] Re: To One In Paradise (Synthesizer V) [Re: dcuny]
Registered: 05/11/15
Posts: 2388
Loc: Aichi, Japan
animarorecords Offline
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Registered: 05/11/15
Posts: 2388
Loc: Aichi, Japan
David,

Another wonderful vocaloid song!
Very pop!
The cliché of I - I#5 - I6 - I#5 is doing a very good job in this song.
Enjoyed my listen a lot.

Best regards.

Shigeki Adachi

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#644313 - 02/28/21 12:15 AM [User Showcase] Re: To One In Paradise (Synthesizer V) [Re: dcuny]
Registered: 12/29/12
Posts: 5897
Loc: Originally Missouri ... Now Al...
Al-David Offline
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Hi David ...

What a great song! The vocaloid was well executed - especially the harmony. And I, too, was a fan of ELO. It was a little different from most of the pop rock music offered in the 70s. I can only imagine the work involved with created a near-0human sounding voice. I applaud your effort and results.

I've always like that chord progression you use in the opening : tonic followed by the augmented, followed by the 6th and then reversed to tonic resolution. I've heard in a few songs from the 60s and 70sd but not too often since. The Dave Clark Five song "Because" from 1965 comes to mind.

Nicely done and a pleasant listen. B est to you ...

Alan
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#644399 - 02/28/21 12:04 PM [User Showcase] Re: To One In Paradise (Synthesizer V) [Re: dcuny]
Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 11624
Loc: GA USA
Janice & Bud Offline
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We, again, are not gonna join the synthesized vocal fray smile It makes for a good "do it all yourself" demo.

The melody was very nice as were the harmonies and counterpoint lines.

The backstory can stand alone as a good and interesting read.

Us rubes out here in the deep south provinces have not read much Poe other than the obligatory high school exposure. However, your shoehorning of his poetry into this lyric resulted in a fine lyric. The rubes missed out on ELO also but that notwithstanding we much like and enjoyed your arrangement.

Guenter from several years back and Shigeki often posted vocaloid based songs but haven't of late so it's cool to again hear and learn about this technology!

J&B
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#644601 - 03/01/21 02:35 PM [User Showcase] Re: To One In Paradise (Synthesizer V) [Re: dcuny]
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Torrey Bliss Offline
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David, that sure is a catchy tune! Loved the use of the diminished chords in this, they really bring such great vibe to the song! Thanks, T
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#644627 - 03/01/21 05:03 PM [User Showcase] Re: To One In Paradise (Synthesizer V) [Re: dcuny]
Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 1831
gruverider Offline
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Brilliant! The lyrics shine and the melody is outstanding! And I just love the Saxophone - superb choice. Superb choices at every level!

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#644719 - 03/02/21 08:11 AM [User Showcase] Re: To One In Paradise (Synthesizer V) [Re: animarorecords]
Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 5119
Loc: Sacramento, California
dcuny Offline
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Posts: 5119
Loc: Sacramento, California
Originally Posted By: animarorecords

Another wonderful vocaloid song!
Very pop!
The cliché of I - I#5 - I6 - I#5 is doing a very good job in this song.
Enjoyed my listen a lot.

Hi, Shigeki.

I'm glad you enjoyed the song. I'm sure to re-use the I - I#5 - I6 - I#5 progression in the near future. wink

I'm curious if you have any thoughts about how Synthesizer V sound in Japanese. Most of the current work on the Synthesizer V voicebanks is being focused on Asian languages, because that's where most buyers will be.

Thanks!
_________________________
-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?

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#644722 - 03/02/21 08:16 AM [User Showcase] Re: To One In Paradise (Synthesizer V) [Re: Al-David]
Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 5119
Loc: Sacramento, California
dcuny Offline
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Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 5119
Loc: Sacramento, California
Originally Posted By: Al-David
What a great song! The vocaloid was well executed - especially the harmony. And I, too, was a fan of ELO. It was a little different from most of the pop rock music offered in the 70s. I can only imagine the work involved with created a near-human sounding voice. I applaud your effort and results.

Hi, Alan.

Thanks! Obviously, I didn't end up going for the "real" ELO sound, but I won't rule it out in the future.

I don't want to give the impression that using Synthesizer V is particularly difficult. It's pretty much the same as using an music program with a piano-roll interface, only you can add words to the notes (and then tweak the sound). But it's quite usable out of the box.

Quote:
I've always like that chord progression you use in the opening : tonic followed by the augmented, followed by the 6th and then reversed to tonic resolution. I've heard in a few songs from the 60s and 70sd but not too often since. The Dave Clark Five song "Because" from 1965 comes to mind.

I'd used it on another song I did a number of years ago. It's a very cool sound.[/quote]

Thanks for stopping to listen and comment! smile
_________________________
-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?

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