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#646831 - 03/15/21 09:40 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Lazarus]
Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 31
Lazarus Online   content
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Rustyspoon,

Thanks for your latest post.

I agree with your comment about how the new content would be accessed. I'm not a younger user and I find the search/browser process complicated and sometimes frustrating. Any new material catering to modern pop should be easily accessible within its own zone or robust filter term, rather than hard to find among thousands of other loops and realtracks.

If you check out the songs in my list on youtube, you will find that they are regonisably proper songs. In fact, perhaps due to the writing to tracks phenomenon, their length and structure is more rigid than songs from the 70s and 80s.

These are mainstream contemporary pop songs ('Adult Contemporary'), often with proper instruments like piano central to the arrangement. I find it encouraging that there has been a return to what I would regard as proper songs with good chord changes and catchy melodies. But if I was to submit a song like this with a Beatles arrangement, it would be rejected.

My list does not include dance music, EDM, techno, rap or any of that. While there are stylistic flourishes and beats borrowed from other genres, the core of these pop songs is quite conventional (in a good way). If you're not familiar with contemporary pop, you might be pleasantly surprised by some of the songs on my list.

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#646937 - 03/15/21 03:40 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Registered: 04/07/13
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Charlie Fogle Online   content
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<< Can you post your 5 songs created "in less than an hour" along with an ID of what Jetracks and AC songs you replicated so we can compare and see how these turned out? >>

No. I deleted all the SGU files for the songs when I removed my earlier post because I considered them test files.


Songs I downloaded and replicated using only BIAB:

JETRACKS SONGS:
Wakeup
Your Love

LAZARUS LIST OF AC SONGS:
Moral of the Story - Ashe
River - Charlie Puth
I think I Should Go To Bed - Dan & Shay

<< You always have good advice and you always seem to say "BIAB can already do that" so I'd like to see firsthand how this turned out! Thanks! >>

I will redo the SGU file for "Moral of the Story" by Ashe and post a link to it. I'll follow my suggestion that the created file will be a songwriting template and not a cover or karaoke duplicate of the original commercial song.

To be clear, this process will have all the elements that comprises this particular modern pop song to be an "in the style of" project. This includes the chord progression, Key signature, tempo map, number of identifiable instruments, the song arrangement and dynamics. There will be no melody nor vocals.

Due to copyright infringement and PG Music restrictions, the SGU file will not have the specific piano riff that plays throughout the song. That said, it should not sound like a cover of "Moral of the Story". But what I would do if this were an actual personal project I was attempting to write an original song using "Moral of the Story" as a guide and template, I would insert the actual audio file I downloaded from YouTube onto the BIAB Mixer Audio Channel and then the BIAB SGU musical bed would play along with, track, match and sync with the original song in all of elements I listed above. Including the actual piano riff should make the SGU file play a karaoke version of the song.
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#646952 - 03/15/21 04:18 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Lazarus]
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Great - thanks! Very much looking forward to hearing it.

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#647070 - 03/16/21 11:53 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Lazarus]
Registered: 06/11/09
Posts: 44
Jareth - PG Music Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 06/11/09
Posts: 44
Hi Lazarus,

Thank you very much for your feedback. As the person who currently makes a lot of our modern pop styles, I get excited about the prospect of finding new ways to integrate modern pop sounds into our library, as well as new ways to improve the workflow for the purpose of creating modern pop music. As Peter mentioned, we're looking into the toplining approach, and your knowledge is very valuable to us.

In the meantime, we do have several modern pop styles. Apologies if it has been hard to locate them. The majority of these can be found in our Xtra Styles PAKs and Loops-with-Style PAKs, which are add-on purchases. The easiest way to navigate to these styles specifically from the Style Picker is to go to Category > Choose and Show a User Category. Here, we have created lists for the individual genres in the Xtra Styles PAKs and lists for the Loops-with-Style PAKs.

While you are waiting for new advancements in our modern pop integration, I have created a Google Sheet of existing styles that you may find useful. It includes the style short and long name, tempo, and feel for each entry. In addition, I've included which PAK they belong to and a link to an audio demo for each style.

Modern Pop Styles Google Sheet

Xtra Styles PAKs

Loops-with-Style PAKs


Edited by Jareth - PG Music (03/18/21 09:11 AM)
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#647111 - 03/16/21 05:17 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Registered: 06/11/09
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Jareth - PG Music Offline
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Hi JohnJohnJohn,

I listened to some of the backing tracks at jetracks.com and soundbetter.com. Based on the general vibe of the tracks on those sites, here are my top ten style suggestions. These are modern styles that I think would be suitable for making topliner tracks. I have included links to audio demos so you can listen. As a bonus, I've also included an additional ten tracks to round out the top 20. And finally, a short list of modern country/folk/Americana styles that include more acoustic instruments, in case that interests you or anyone else.

Top 10 topliner styles:

_SLOFUNK - Slow Sw16 Pop Funk Groove
_LO-FI - Lo-Fi Hip Hop Beat w Acst Guitar
_MEGABYT - Megabyte Electro RnB with Loop
_CHILLHP3 - Chill Hop Slow Brush Break Loop
_WESTCST - Classic West Coast Rap
_CERASEE - Cerasee Island Dance Pop
_GOSTEDY - Go Steady Modern RnB with Perc
_GLITTER - Glitter Modern Disco Funk
_SHIMMY - Shimmy Modern Funk Pop
_SLAPPIN - Slappin' Acoustic Guitar Pop

Rounding out the top 20:

_ECHOING - Echoing Indie Synth Pop w Guitar
_UNKNOWN - Unknown Sw-16 Funky Folk Groove
_REBIRTH - Rebirth Fingerstyle Pop Ballad
_PURSUIT - Pursuit Modern Soul Pop
_SNAPPY - Snappy Even-16 Summer Pop Ballad
_SLUMAMP - Slumber Amplitube Pedal Steel
_TRPBEAT - Minimalist Trap Beat
_BABYBLU - Baby Blue Radio Pop with Piano
_SURVIVE - Survive Alternative RnB w Synths
_CANDLE - Candle Slow Dramatic Cloud Rap

Modern country/folk/Americana styles:

_UNIVERS - Universe Pop Country Ballad
_FULMOON - Full Moon Ctry Folk Radio Ballad
_AFTRHRS - After Hours Lounging Country Pop
_SOLACE - Solace Quarter-Feel Country
_PASSION - Passion Hit Country Pop Ballad
_BURROW - Burrow Lite Southern Rock Rhythm
_LAJOLLA - La Jolla West Coast Ctry Ballad
_MDWEST+ - Midwest Country Folk MultiStyle
_FIXATE - Fixate 6/8 Americana Country
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PG Music Inc.

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#647270 - 03/17/21 04:08 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Lazarus]
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Lazarus Online   content
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Hi Jareth,

Thanks very much for your post. I am very glad to hear that you will be developing what BIAB offers to contemporary pop songwriters.

Thanks also for taking the trouble to make the Modern Pop Styles Google sheet so that I can find them. I look forward to checking out the styles you listed.

With regard to future BIAB Modern Pop styles, I suggest that the first place to look for inspiration would be the charts and songs like those I listed above. These have proven popular appeal and would result in styles that would be more attractive to your customers. I referred to toplining backing tracks for an indication of their production level, format and vibe but there are a lot more backing tracks out there than proven hits and many of the former will never become the latter!

One thing occurred to me when listening to the style demos: I may have got this wrong but BIAB demos seem to have all the instruments playing all through the song. This might work well for blues or country or maybe jazz when that could be appropriate for a song in that genre. But in pop you almost never have all the instruments playing all through the song. So your modern pop styles might be more effectively showcased with a demo song that has maybe a stripped down intro with a loop, verse arrangement then fuller arrangement for the chorus. It might make the demo sound more recognisably like a pop song. With utility tracks, you would have space for an instrument used just in the intro, bridge, breakdown or added to the chorus. The more it sounds like a pop song, the more it will appeal to new BIAB users.

You mentioned ways to improve the workflow for people writing modern pop songs. Charlie wrote in his post above lots of things that BIAB can apparently already do. I have no idea how to do the things he mentioned. While I am waiting for your new developments, I would like to be using the existing features of BIAB to their full potential. I checked out the video tutorial part of the PG website today. I found a tutorial by you for how to make a user track. That was interesting though I don't think it would give me chords like augs that I would want to use. Several of the videos there were quite old so they don't look like they're up to date on things like making styles.

What would help people like me would be some video tutorials that pull together the kind of things Charlie was talking about, using BIAB 2021, to develop songs from existing chart songs or toplining tracks.

Thanks

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#647277 - 03/17/21 04:45 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Lazarus]
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PeterGannon Offline
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>> What would help people like me would be some video tutorials that pull together the kind of things Charlie was talking about, using BIAB 2021, to develop songs from existing chart songs or toplining tracks.

Yes, that would be great.

One point, when you're comparing a BiaB track with a topliner track from a site. Imagine you were a songwriter and had to choose... if you have BiaB you can make it with any chord progression you want, not just limited to the progression that comes with the track.

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PG Music Inc.

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#647278 - 03/17/21 05:06 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Lazarus]
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Yes, Peter, that is my point. That is exactly what I dislike about backing tracks and have always liked about BIAB.

So if BIAB's new modern styles can capture the contemporary, production-ready feel of those backing tracks (essential if a songwriter wants to get their pop song demos listened to in the industry) with the addition of all BIAB's features - not just chords but tempo, key, bar settings, shots and holds - and if contemporary songwriters get to know about what BIAB offers, why would anyone buy a fixed backing track again?!

I think that if you were to sell a collection of modern pop styles to cater for this market, you would reach more people if the set focused exclusively on that genre rather than just a handful of modern pop styles bundled in with handfuls of songs from all the other BIAB genres which would have little or no appeal to pop writers.

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#647429 - 03/18/21 01:43 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Lazarus]
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Jim Fogle Offline
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Lazarus,

You've raised some interesting points to discuss throughout this thread. Thank you for your positive and cheerful attitude and for directing the conversation to keep it on track.

I found the way you use the terms demo and styles interesting and thought provoking. I hadn't thought about it too much up until this thread but generally speaking PG Music has always created demo songs to demonstrate two product classes: instruments with distinct sounds like RealTracks and MIDISuperTracks or premium styles like the XtraStyles. Each product class has different demo song requirements.

A demo song highlighting instrument sounds should demonstrate how it sounds in isolation and in context. Ideally all variations should be demonstrated.

A style demo song should highlight how the style handles an intro, "a' section, "b' section and ending and the instruments used in the band.

If Jareth brought instruments in and out as you suggest would that not minimize or defeat the purpose of the demo requirements I gave above? Isn't the job of the song producer to determine how these tools are used?

In my mind what you're describing is why PG Music has the User Showcase. What's missing are User Showcase postings of modern pop songs created by young producers. Why that is so I don't know. But I frequently run across YouTube videos and songs on BandCamp and other websites where I believe Band-in-a-Box is used but not credited.

Pop producers generally don't credit the origin of a song's backing tracks. They don't distinguish if the backing tracks originate from midi loops, audio loops, session musicians, samples, Band-in-a-Box or whatever. You generally don't know who mixes or masters a song. It is the creative direction of the song producer that manages the song from beginning to end.

What I think is needed is for a social media influencer to discover Band-in-a-Box and promotes it's ability to create pop music.
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#647442 - 03/18/21 02:45 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Lazarus]
Registered: 06/11/09
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Jareth - PG Music Offline
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Registered: 06/11/09
Posts: 44
Hi Lazarus,

I want to reply specifically about the issue of having the same instruments for the entirety of the song. By default, RealTracks or RealDrums can have two substyles, which usually (but not always) represent some kind of verse and chorus part. Some RealTracks and RealDrums are the same in both substyles, but many change when the part marker is switched between A and B. In addition to that, we have MultiStyles. MultiStyles allow us to combine multiple styles into one, which accommodates complex arrangements with a greater number of substyles. Usually these will have around 8 substyles instead of the usual 2. So instead of having the basic A/B part marker options, you will have something like A/B/C/D/E/F/G/H, and each will sound different. I created a MultiStyles PAK that has 30 MultiStyles (10 pop/rock, 10 country, and 10 jazz). I'll leave you a link below so you can listen to some of the demos. For the last few releases, there is usually at least one MultiStyle included for each genre of the Xtra Styles PAKs as well. The MultiStyles always include the "+" symbol in their short name, so you can filter for MultiStyles easily in the Style Picker by searching for "+".

MultiStyles PAKs - Listen to Demos
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PG Music Inc.

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#647444 - 03/18/21 02:52 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Lazarus]
Registered: 10/16/08
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Lazarus Online   content
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Thanks Jim. I wasn't aware of the user showcase and I didn't know about premium styles and Xtrastyles so I will check them and their different kind of demos out.

My suggestions were aimed primarily at how PG might appeal to new contemporary pop songwriter users and take a share of that backing tracks for toplining market.

I agree with you that it would be good if a social media influencer (ugh!) could champion BIAB but, as Peter said above, it would be great if PG could make some tutorial videos that pull together everything BIAB can offer a pop songwriter.

I have been updating the program for years but there are still features that I don't know about or use. I'll often try them out when they are released but then give up on them because they're too confusing or don't work properly or suit my workflow. The user guide is nearly 600 pages. I don't have time to read that. I have loads of other music software and their bloated manuals too!

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#647449 - 03/18/21 03:31 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Jareth - PG Music]
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Lazarus Online   content
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Thanks Jareth for explaining that.

I've just listened to some of those multistyle demos. I think that would be a good way to go for your product aimed at contemporary pop songwriters as they do give a good example of how the styles might be used in different sections of a song.

I've bought Ultra and multiple Pluspaks over the years but a search of "+" shows that I don't currently appear to have any multistyles among the thousands of styles on my computer.

I would buy a set of multistyles that sound like hit contemporary pop songs but only if they were all genuine contemporary pop, not if those are minority of styles on a disk with loads of jazz and all the other styles that don't interest me.

As a longtime BIAB user who updates the program every year, I gave up long ago with bonus paks and all the (to me) confusing other types of paks because when I've bought them in the past, the PG policy of bundling all the genres together means most styles are of no interest to me. It may be that most other BIAB users like to work in all styles equally but, if you want to tempt new pop songwriters to BIAB, I suggest you create product which targets their specific needs.

Thanks

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#647465 - 03/18/21 05:27 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Lazarus]
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JohnJohnJohn Offline
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I am truly hopeful that this thread is going somewhere good! Lazarus has provided excellent insights regarding one category of modern music and enlightened me on the whole topic of toplining! And PGM seems open to adding functionality for creating modern songs! This is all really great news!

In spite of claims that BIAB can already do this I remain unconvinced. I believe BIAB can produce components I can use to assemble a modern song. But I am quite curious to see if it can produce a modern song as completely and easily as it can produce a bluegrass song or a surf rocker! For those, and other classic genres, I can literally enter chords, choose a style and output a mostly complete song ready for vocals. But I have yet to see how that can be done for more modern music styles. And maybe modern music is more complex and BIAB won't be able to do that but I'd love to fully understand what is possible.

I like the idea that maybe PGM can produce tutorials on how to use BIAB to create modern music! That would be quite welcome!

Originally Posted By: Lazarus
Moral of the story - Ashe
River - Charlie Puth
Joke's on you - Charlotte Lawrence
Good in goodbye - Madison Beer
Bad guy - Billie Eilish
No time to die - Billie Eilish
Goodbyes - Post Malone
I should probably go to bed now - Dan & Shay
Snowman - Sia
Rescue Me - One Republic
Problems - DeathbyRomy
Someone You Loved - Lewis Capaldi
Memories - Maroon 5
Lose you to love me - Selena Gomez
Just my type - The Vamps
Ring - Selena Gomez
Feel it twice - Camila Cabello
Trampoline - Shaed
Dance Monkey - Tones & I
Hot girl bummer - Blackbear
Cuz I love you - Lizzo
Sucker - Jonas Brothers
High Hopes - Panic at the Disco
7 rings - Ariana Grande
Old Town Road - Lil Nas X
Novocaine - The Unlikely Candidates
Dark side - Bishop Briggs
Selfish - Madison Beer

Thank you for this long list of examples. I am working my way through them to personally gain a better understanding of modern music.

I did notice that, of your 28 suggestions, only 6 are in the current BIAB titles database. And the couple I am already familiar with that are in the database, Bad Guy and Old Town Road, did not result in suggestions of styles that sounded like those songs to my ears.

Originally Posted By: Charlie Fogle
After reviewing, auditioning and downloading two featured songs from Jetracks.com and another couple from the Adult Contemporary artist/song list Lazarus provided, it was obvious that BIAB can easily and quickly replicate 'Modern Pop' style music just as the program exists now or in 2020, 2019 and many years of prior BIAB versions. I replicated 2 Jetracks and 3 AC songs in less than an hour.

I am still looking forward to hearing what you came up with. Replicating 5 modern songs in an hour with BIAB certainly seems impossible to me! Incidently, the 2 songs you picked from Jetracks may not be the best example since they have more of a classic feel at least to my ears.

Originally Posted By: Jareth - PG Music
In the meantime, we do have several modern pop styles. Apologies if it has been hard to locate them.

Thank you for the spreadsheet and for the samples of styles you provided in a subsequent post. I have tried listening to the demos for these styles and I am still trying to understand how to use them to produce modern sounding music.

Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle
In my mind what you're describing is why PG Music has the User Showcase. What's missing are User Showcase postings of modern pop songs created by young producers. Why that is so I don't know.

I think it may be the very reason we are having this conversation! We (the old guard) don't know how to produce modern songs with BIAB! And young producers are not using BIAB. And if they try it they don't immediately see it as a useful tool to produce modern music.

Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle
What I think is needed is for a social media influencer to discover Band-in-a-Box and promotes it's ability to create pop music.

First we have to convincingly establish that ability!

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#647470 - 03/18/21 05:52 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Lazarus]
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Johnjohnjohn, I agree with everything you have written.

I would add that the songs on my list were selected to showcase a variety of styles of modern mainstream pop but what they all have in common is decent chord changes. In that sense, they are recognisable pop songs, with hooky chords and melodies, like the good songs from previous eras.

That is not the case for all modern pop songs and it is certainly not the case for MOST (in my opinion) backing tracks sold for toplining. The limitations of the fixed format leads their creators to 'play safe' by often having minimal chord changes (sometimes only two chords in the whole song). They think this will make them more usable to more purchasers but, to me, it makes them unusable because the dull chords are concreted in. As I've said before, BIAB is potentially the antidote to this.

The structures of modern pop songs are generally very conservative and they often have real instruments central to the arrangement. This is not EDM. The beats, percussion and transitions have a contemporary feel that I have not yet found in any BIAB style but I am excluding rap, techno and other formats. In principle, chord-based mainstream pop songs, like those in my list, should provide excellent inspiration for new BIAB pop (multi)styles.


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#647502 - 03/19/21 01:56 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Jareth - PG Music]
Registered: 01/26/05
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stratos Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jareth - PG Music
Hi JohnJohnJohn,

I listened to some of the backing tracks at jetracks.com and soundbetter.com. Based on the general vibe of the tracks on those sites, here are my top ten style suggestions. These are modern styles that I think would be suitable for making topliner tracks. I have included links to audio demos so you can listen. As a bonus, I've also included an additional ten tracks to round out the top 20. And finally, a short list of modern country/folk/Americana styles that include more acoustic instruments, in case that interests you or anyone else.

Top 10 topliner styles:

_SLOFUNK - Slow Sw16 Pop Funk Groove
_LO-FI - Lo-Fi Hip Hop Beat w Acst Guitar
_MEGABYT - Megabyte Electro RnB with Loop
_CHILLHP3 - Chill Hop Slow Brush Break Loop
_WESTCST - Classic West Coast Rap
_CERASEE - Cerasee Island Dance Pop
_GOSTEDY - Go Steady Modern RnB with Perc
_GLITTER - Glitter Modern Disco Funk
_SHIMMY - Shimmy Modern Funk Pop
_SLAPPIN - Slappin' Acoustic Guitar Pop

Rounding out the top 20:

_ECHOING - Echoing Indie Synth Pop w Guitar
_UNKNOWN - Unknown Sw-16 Funky Folk Groove
_REBIRTH - Rebirth Fingerstyle Pop Ballad
_PURSUIT - Pursuit Modern Soul Pop
_SNAPPY - Snappy Even-16 Summer Pop Ballad
_SLUMAMP - Slumber Amplitube Pedal Steel
_TRPBEAT - Minimalist Trap Beat
_BABYBLU - Baby Blue Radio Pop with Piano
_SURVIVE - Survive Alternative RnB w Synths
_CANDLE - Candle Slow Dramatic Cloud Rap

Modern country/folk/Americana styles:

_UNIVERS - Universe Pop Country Ballad
_FULMOON - Full Moon Ctry Folk Radio Ballad
_AFTRHRS - After Hours Lounging Country Pop
_SOLACE - Solace Quarter-Feel Country
_PASSION - Passion Hit Country Pop Ballad
_BURROW - Burrow Lite Southern Rock Rhythm
_LAJOLLA - La Jolla West Coast Ctry Ballad
_MDWEST+ - Midwest Country Folk MultiStyle
_FIXATE - Fixate 6/8 Americana Country


Hi Jareth
Thanks a lot.
Together with link to Soundbetter and Jet tracks this is really a work around in learning from those tracks as inspiration and using BB as far as possible .
I will be looking forward to more extra styles packs and loop packs


Edited by stratos (03/19/21 01:56 AM)

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#647508 - 03/19/21 03:32 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Lazarus]
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PeterGannon Offline
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Posts: 14555
Lazarus,
Thanks for the list of song examples, that gives us good examples of the genres you’re looking for. We plan on making some realtracks and realstyles dedicated to some of the modern pop genres, especially the melodic/chord progression based ones.
Peter
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PG Music Inc.

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#647523 - 03/19/21 05:43 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Lazarus]
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Lazarus Online   content
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Thank you, Peter. I am very pleased to hear that.

From what Jareth wrote, I think multistyles may be the best way to achieve this, to make BIAB the preferred tool for writing modern pop music. A good set of contemporary pop multistyles that sound like the chart pop songs on my list would be worth buying. Especially if there were good tutorial videos on how to get the best from them in BIAB.

I think you are right to focus on the melodic/chord progression based songs because this is what BIAB does so well in its existing well-developed styles. My song list was intended to demonstrate that the musical content of these modern pop songs - chords, melody, structure - is very similar to older pop songs that we all know and love. All that's different is the style - and the production standards required in the industry today to get your songs listened to. It's not like the old days, when you could send a publisher cassettes recorded on a 4 track recorder.

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#647657 - 03/20/21 07:22 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Lazarus]
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Lazarus Online   content
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For your new contemporary pop styles to be authentic, I suggest you get input from people for whom this kind of songwriting and production is their first language. The reason BIAB realtracks are so good is that they are performed by musicians who are native speakers on their instrument and genre. Having sampled the existing 'modern pop' styles, I would respectfully and gently suggest that contemporary chart pop has been rather like a foreign language to PG up to now!

If PG staff would like to familiarise themselves with the techniques of deconstructing hit pop songs and recreating them (reverse engineering), may I recommend the Make Pop Music free channel on Youtube?

These tutorials are by Austin Hull, who is very busy producing other people's pop songs as well as his own. He is very generous in passing on his expertise in producing different pop genres. Some of his tutorials come with free stems that you can download to produce yourself. They also give a good idea of the elements needed to make a production ready to submit within the music industry.

Here are a few of his tutorials to get you started. There are many more on his channel.

How To Produce A Pop Song In 10 Steps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4YixkCxZk8

How to analyze and deconstruct pop songs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z40mY1JC2FI

How to Make an Ariana Grande Song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtxwsA1iAnY

How To Make A Pop Ballad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irjUUwUM70Q

How To Make A Mellow Pop Song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr6vf6t3kxY

How to Make a Taylor Swift Song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_cmSbb3gC4

How To Make A Song Like The Weeknd (Blinding Lights, In Your Eyes, Faith)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2d3y58rSYU&t=550s

How To Make Funk / Disco Pop (Charlie Puth, Dua Lipa, DNCE, Doja Cat)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI4rzNsTv_o

How To Make A Trap Pop Song (blackbear, Post Malone, The Weeknd) + FREE STEMS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fHPVQnX8Ew

I hope these links might also be of interest to other BIAB songwriter users.

Also on Youtube, you can find Billie Eilish's brother talking about how he produces Billie's songs and people like Charlie Puth demonstrating how he wrote and arranged some of his songs. (His song River was on my list).

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#647684 - 03/20/21 10:08 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Lazarus]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 12828
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 12828
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
This is certainly some excellent reference material that you have identified.

Many users could benefit from that info.
_________________________
BIAB & RB2021(Audiophile), SonarPlatinum, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M StudioMonitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

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#647696 - 03/20/21 11:38 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Lazarus]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 7212
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 7212
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Lazarus,

Thanks for taking time to share your suggestions and links supporting your suggestions. This has been an interesting and fun discussion.
_________________________
Jim Fogle - 2021 BiaB (833) RB (Build 5) Ultra+ PAK
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Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
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