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#647707 - 03/20/21 12:40 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Lazarus]
Registered: 06/25/12
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JohnJohnJohn Offline
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I am really excited by the prospects being discussed in this thread! I am starting to watch the suggested videos and I am listening to a sampling of the tracks at jetracks.com.

I agree that multistyles may be a productive direction for this! I was also thinking a suggestion I (and perhaps others) made in the past that might be great here is the concept of RealStyleCombos. This would be PGM pairing up two or more styles that work well together and making them as easily selectable as a RealStyle. This lets us capitalize on what we already have.

Something else really useful might be RealSongTemplates. This would be a premade song with intro, verse, prechorus, chorus, verse, prechorus, chorus, bridge and final chorus. Each section would come with preselected sections so intro would be an A then verse an B and so on.

And maybe the part markers could be standardized with levels 1-5 where 1 is the "quietest" section used for verses and 5 is the "loudest" used for final chorus.

It would be great to have these "premade" sections draggable so I could build my song with them.

I'm straying too far from the topic now ao I'll stop! laugh

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#648116 - 03/23/21 11:22 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Lazarus]
Registered: 09/11/02
Posts: 382
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
Tobin - PG Music Inc. Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 09/11/02
Posts: 382
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
Hi Lazarus,

Your posts have been extremely helpful, and yes, making more new modern-pop/RnB/EDM styles would be an excellent idea.

The song list you posted above is a really good resource for the kinds of styles we could add. The next step of course would be finding musicians/producers who would be the best choices for making this kind of music. Sites like Jettracks look like they're more geared towards just selling you pre-made tracks, but the site isn't really suitable for putting producers actually in touch with clients. I also looked a bit into the songtown site you mentioned, but it also doesn't necessarily seem to lend itself to putting producers in touch with clients. There was a site called Soundbetter that does seem to be geared towards this, so that may be one route we could take, but I was wondering if you (or anyone else in this thread) might have other suggestions for where we should look to find producers/musicians we could work with. Perhaps other forums you might know of where people like this may frequent?

thanks,
Tobin
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#648124 - 03/23/21 11:55 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Tobin - PG Music Inc.]
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Jim Fogle Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tobin - PG Music Inc.
Hi Lazarus,

Your posts have been extremely helpful, and yes, making more new modern-pop/RnB/EDM styles would be an excellent idea.

The song list you posted above is a really good resource for the kinds of styles we could add. The next step of course would be finding musicians/producers who would be the best choices for making this kind of music. Sites like Jettracks look like they're more geared towards just selling you pre-made tracks, but the site isn't really suitable for putting producers actually in touch with clients. I also looked a bit into the songtown site you mentioned, but it also doesn't necessarily seem to lend itself to putting producers in touch with clients. There was a site called Soundbetter that does seem to be geared towards this, so that may be one route we could take, but I was wondering if you (or anyone else in this thread) might have other suggestions for where we should look to find producers/musicians we could work with. Perhaps other forums you might know of where people like this may frequent?

thanks,
Tobin
Charlie Puth is self produced.

Louis Russell Bell is Post Malone's producer.

Matthew Tyler Musto, Blackbear, is self produced.

Ian Kirkpatrick is Dua Lipa's producer.

Max Martin, Oscar Holter & The Weeknd have produced Blinding Lights.

Let me know if you need more names.
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#648140 - 03/23/21 12:49 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Lazarus]
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Posts: 2728
Rustyspoon# Offline
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Tobin,
www.fiverr.com
Is a good place to start.

I had success hiring a flutist for short User Track. Done from the first attempt. Turnaround for me was about a week. There are many, many musicians there for hire with samples of their work and reviews. It is most likely some of them would be able to make quality tracks "in style of / inspired by".

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#648142 - 03/23/21 01:01 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Lazarus]
Registered: 09/11/02
Posts: 382
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
Tobin - PG Music Inc. Offline
PG Music Staff

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Posts: 382
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
Thanks for the reply Jim. It would certainly be cool to get famous producers like the ones you listed, but I more had in mind finding a source of lower-profile producers who do this kind of music but aren't necessarily attached to big names.
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#648143 - 03/23/21 01:02 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 09/11/02
Posts: 382
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
Tobin - PG Music Inc. Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 09/11/02
Posts: 382
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
Rustyspoon, thanks, that's an excellent idea!
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#648164 - 03/23/21 03:24 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Lazarus]
Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 31
Lazarus Offline
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Posts: 31
Hi Tobin,

Thanks for your interest and for your question.

My strong recommendation would be that Austin Hull from Make Pop Music should be your first port of call. I have posted several of his Youtube instructional videos earlier in this thread. I suggest you watch them, and the others on his site, before you approach him. You will see that he is extremely adept at deconstructing the various sub-genres of pop music and developing songs in that style. He is very busy producing pop for his clients 'in the style of...' and creating his instructional videos. He also makes and sells sounds, presets, MIDI packs and other songwriting tools.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvARrwO4x0VInVZr4pQRB2A

Austin could be a one-stop-shop for PG's first contemporary pop multistyles set, covering several sub-genres.

The really exciting thing would be a collaboration with him that would enable the full range of BIAB's features to be used in the service of contemporary pop songwriters (and maybe even develop some new features along the way). Utility tracks, loops, shots, holds, transitions, proper pop-style harmony vocals in commonly-used vowels & phrases that have been processed through Austin's stunningly effective custom FX chain...

If you commissioned Austin to create a set of multistyles based on the songs in my list, each with a full song demo to show off the style properly - I would be BREAKING YOUR DOOR DOWN to buy it!

But if you were to limit it to standard 5 instrument styles, I think that would be a missed opportunity. This is a chance for PG to think big and reach a whole new market (if you do it properly).

I suggest you also commission Austin to make some instructional videos for the pop multistyles set and to introduce new, younger customers to BIAB. His videos are brilliant and concise - the most comprehensive and respected in this genre.

This forum thread has had about 750 views from existing BIAB users who check out the forum wishlist. There is clearly an appetite for what I am suggesting in your existing customers but... Austin's Make Pop Music Youtube channel has 109,000 subscribers. If he promoted his BIAB styles set to them, you would be inundated with new customers! It would be a very quick way to get BIAB known as a serious contender for songwriters in this genre.

I should make it clear that I don't know him personally; like many others, I have been wowed by his 'in the style of' pop genre instructional videos. I'm not always such a fan of all the songs he uses in his tutorials (lyric, melody and chord choices) but his genre deconstructions and recreations are flawless and completely authentic. And that's all you need.

What I have always wanted from BIAB is for it to be like a car, which I can go to when I have the inspiration for a new song. I want to be able to get in it, grab an instantly drivable style and drive uninterrupted to my destination of a finished song. I provide the lyric, chords and melody... Austin's pop style can provide all the stuff under the hood. BIAB users working in genres like blues, jazz, country and oompah have always had that, whereas I get lost in the search for a contemporary pop needle in my haystack of 5,000 styles!

I had a private message from a longtime BIAB user who works in its conventional styles and thinks they're great. He told me that he'd made a Spotify playlist of all the songs in my list and been surprised to find that he liked all 28 of them!

The most important asset that Austin would bring to PG is that contemporary pop music IS HIS NATIVE LANGUAGE; he is a fluent speaker of all the sub-genres and he is already doing what PG would want from him - it just needs to be applied to BIAB.

I hope this helps. I would be happy to advise further during the development process, if required.

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#649389 - 03/31/21 03:28 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Lazarus]
Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 735
Loc: Ashkelon, Israel
DeaconBlues09 Offline
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Registered: 03/21/17
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Hey there folks,

So last September I accepted a new position where I have much, much, less free time than I used to, so I've not been hanging out in the forums in ages (I barely had time to play around with BiaB 2021). Anyway, I've had a bit of time free this week because we got off for the week of Passover (I live in Israel), and chanced upon this when relaxing on my couch browsing through these posts.

For most the vast majority of years I owned BiaB, I used it as a jamalong/instructional/practice tool for playing guitar and bass, and would have agreed with Lazarus's take on this.

However, at some point a couple years back (when I still had a lot more free time) I started getting more interested in music production techniques, VSTs, MIDI etc, and have since realized that it is the way BiaB is used that determines what you get out of it.

For instance, in this snippet, I had a single instance of a Rompler VST that is often on sale for $5 on plugin boutique, and figured out certain settings whereby I got all the sounds you hear on this EDM snippet from loading it onto a single held chord MIDI track.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSJTQSI12gw

As for RTs, you can also get amazing modern sounding results with a bit of DAW, VST, and production know how.

I recorded this track for one of PG's contests. I'm not saying it's great, I can't rap for [*****], and I unfortunately rendered this with a tiny playback speed drift on one of the tracks I could not figure out at the time how to fix, but you have to admit that this sounds as modern as you please and it contains nary a loop nor MIDI track.

Interested to hear your thoughts and whether you agree with me in that regard,

https://soundcloud.com/user-423212678/labor-day-pt-ii-1

P.S. Missed you guys!
P.P.S. Also wondering what awesome magical utilities, apps, extensions, Pipeline has been coming up with these days ;-)
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#649426 - 03/31/21 08:45 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: DeaconBlues09]
Registered: 08/20/11
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Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
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Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
DeaconBlues09,

First, great to see you posting in the forum again. You've been missed!

Quote:
it is the way BiaB is used that determines what you get out of it.


How true. Band-in-a-Box is a toolbox. The tools are here but you have to learn how to use it to get the results you want. Band-in-a-Box works with MIDI, MIDI sound patches, audio loops, pre-recorded audio and audio you can record. That pretty much covers the content portion of the audio production tool kit. It's up to each user to learn to use these tools. You listen to a genre, you analyze that genre, you learn what makes the genre unique, you imitate what you've learned.

Band-in-a-Box styles provides some audio production presets to get you started but you still have to put in the work and learn how to produce your music your way.
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#649429 - 03/31/21 09:09 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Lazarus]
Registered: 09/11/02
Posts: 382
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
Tobin - PG Music Inc. Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 09/11/02
Posts: 382
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
Lazarus,

Regarding your last post, that was incredibly useful, and pointing me to the MakePopMusic videos was very helpful. We're continuing to look into this. Modern pop music, edm, etc. does provide some challenges for Band-in-a-Box that more traditional musical instruments don't have, but we're definitely working on this.

DeaconBlues09, that was a great video! And yeah, as I was listening I was watching the mixer, and yes the playing just occurred at the beginning of every bar, so everything I was hearing was all done with your plugins. Very cool!
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#649465 - 03/31/21 01:50 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Lazarus]
Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 31
Lazarus Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 31
Hi Tobin,

I'm glad you found my last post useful and I'm very pleased to hear that you are working on this.

In this thread, I have been talking about modern pop chart SONGS rather than EDM. I think EDM would be more of a challenge for BIAB whereas all the songs in my list are proper chord/melody songs (quite conventional but in a modern style).

There are many other tools out there that are more suited to EDM, like Scaler 2, Arcade and Loopmaster. That's not to say that BIAB shouldn't have a go at EDM at some point if PG wants to but, as Peter Gannon indicated earlier in this thread, "Thanks for the list of song examples, that gives us good examples of the genres you’re looking for. We plan on making some realtracks and realstyles dedicated to some of the modern pop genres, especially the melodic/chord progression based ones."

I have found that Scaler and Arcade are not so helpful for pop songwriting and can't compete with the core functionality that BIAB offers.

As a longtime BIAB user and upgrader, I find the way PG bundles together styles from different genres as an incentive to upgrade doesn't work for me. I have so many styles now, in everything but contemporary pop, that more styles actually makes things worse because there are so many to wade through (and oompah and celtic styles seem to evade your filters... I can't get away from them cluttering up my searches!)

There are some excellent realtracks and drums that are very useable for pop and they are what I'm usually searching for (I rarely use all the instruments from a style). It would be great if these could be grouped together by PG, maybe under some foolproof search filter term, to help us find them easily (and close alternatives). That could be another step in making BIAB more useful and accessible to contemporary pop songwriters.

I agree with Jim and DeaconBlues that BIAB is a toolbox but, if PG wants to attract a new generation of users, it needs to pull all the elements together and make them easily accessible. There's no point in having 1000 loops if you have to wade through them alphabetically. I want BIAB to make pop songwriting a quicker process; at the moment it makes it longer for me, wading through so many options and generally not finding what I want (though there may well be lots of useable tracks for pop there in that haystack of 5,000 styles... somewhere!)

There are what I have referred to earlier in this thread as 'sub-genres' within contemporary pop - and Austin Hull deconstructs these very well - but they are primarily pop songs with a FLAVOUR (sorry, English spelling!) of another genre e.g. pop with a Trap flavour, rather than full-on hardcore Trap. So I suggest your first contemporary pop styles set should concentrate on Chart Pop, in different pop flavours, rather than try to appeal to purist EDM, Trap and House aficionados all at once.



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#649542 - 03/31/21 11:47 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Lazarus]
Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 735
Loc: Ashkelon, Israel
DeaconBlues09 Offline
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"As a longtime BIAB user and upgrader, I find the way PG bundles together styles from different genres as an incentive to upgrade doesn't work for me. I have so many styles now, in everything but contemporary pop, that more styles actually makes things worse because there are so many to wade through (and oompah and celtic styles seem to evade your filters... I can't get away from them cluttering up my searches!)"

OK, so let me preface this by saying that I have been fairly outspoken in these forums over the years regarding my frustrations and issues with various aspects of BiaB over the years, and I'm by no means what one would call a "BiaB apologist."

That said, I respectfully disagree with you about the Celtic, Klezmer, Americana, etc. First of all, you have to keep in mind that there are many, many, users who, like myself, mainly use the program as a learning and practice tool. These folks are not likely to be active on the forums or post to the showcase, because they're focus lies elsewhere.

I cannot tell you how thrilled I am personally with the diversity of styles that BiaB has helped me learn (both guitar and bass, but mostly bass). Now am I ever going to join a band that plays anyone of the myriad Latin/South American influenced styles in a band setting or at an open mic jam session? Almost certainly not.

HOWEVER, learning the grooves and unique fingerings, patterns, and not placement from all those styles has made me a much more rounded player, and I frequently surprise myself at how I subconsciously pull in various elements of those styles during "plain vanilla" jam sessions to kick it up a notch and keep things interesting (the drummers notice too!)




There are some excellent realtracks and drums that are very useable for pop and they are what I'm usually searching for (I rarely use all the instruments from a style). It would be great if these could be grouped together by PG, maybe under some foolproof search filter term, to help us find them easily (and close alternatives). That could be another step in making BIAB more useful and accessible to contemporary pop songwriters.


I agree with Jim and DeaconBlues that BIAB is a toolbox but, if PG wants to attract a new generation of users, it needs to pull all the elements together and make them easily accessible. There's no point in having 1000 loops if you have to wade through them alphabetically. I want BIAB to make pop songwriting a quicker process; at the moment it makes it longer for me, wading through so many options and generally not finding what I want (though there may well be lots of useable tracks for pop there in that haystack of 5,000 styles... somewhere!)

There are what I have referred to earlier in this thread as 'sub-genres' within contemporary pop - and Austin Hull deconstructs these very well - but they are primarily pop songs with a FLAVOUR (sorry, English spelling!) of another genre e.g. pop with a Trap flavour, rather than full-on hardcore Trap. So I suggest your first contemporary pop styles set should concentrate on Chart Pop, in different pop flavours, rather than try to appeal to purist EDM, Trap and House aficionados all at once.
[/quote]

Again, I must respectfully disagree with you here. It is upon the user to delve into BiaB and learn all its secrets, and its up to the songwriter/producer, to construct a track. I think that slicing and categorizing all the tracks and styles into genres and subgenres is very limiting. It is precisely the expanded pallete of styles and influences that you laud in our earlier posts that make BiaB the tool of infinite potential which you cannot get from Scaler 2, Captain Plugins, et al.

I've seen a lot of posts over the years requesting this or that style, and often find myself quite surprised that the underlying instrumentation is already represented in spades in the current BiaB catalogue of tracks.
In that vein, I checked out a bunch of the tracks you listed, and was surprised because I initially thought they would be Trap/EDM style chart toppers, but the instrumentals were actually already within BiaB's capabilities (that is, not MIDI Synth VST heavy music).

That the BiaB styles don't sound "production ready" is IMO is a feature, not a bug. They are leaving it to the user to decide what effects would sound best with what tracks. I've noticed that in later years, PGM has started to apply phaser, chorus, and creative delay effects to their tracks (perhaps as a gentle way of demonstrating to the users of how much effects can enhance a track). Try sticking a multiband compressor and your drum, bass, and or master track and see how it comes to life with a bit of tweaking. BiaB could add all sorts of glossy effects to the individual tracks which would make them sound a lot "better" but the frequencies might clash when various tracks are mixed and matched.

In short, I believe that to wrote a great song with BiaB, one should to get familiar with production and arrangement techniques, and perhaps they would find everything they need is already there. (Full disclosure, I do not claim to be a great songwriter, arranger, or producer or anything of the sort, but I've spent a lot of time in recent years watching videos on music production such that I have a basic understanding of the vast possibilities a little bit of knowledge of plugins, a DAW, effects, and proper mixing and arranging can make).

Just my two cents...
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#649572 - 04/01/21 05:00 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: DeaconBlues09]
Registered: 01/07/20
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justanoldmuso Offline
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Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 427
Deacon blues.
i agree with a lot of what your saying.
i remember in my teens when i started on my crazy song creation lifelong journey, a very astute number of serious musicians telling me the realities of song creation.
ie "each song is a load of often detailed hours upon hours of work". and often a "struggle".
(and i'm not saying i'm any good at it !)

there are no "shortcuts" or magic tools imho.

what i find interesting is , and ive discussed this with many musicians way better than i , the "psychological"
impact of a song on the "listener".
ie what makes a listener go out and buy a song ?
and why can a listener listen to certain songs a thousand times and still look forward to playing it ?
ive studied this at length from the psychology of the mind angle. and believe certain progressions and hooks are a contributing major factor.

best
oldmuso.
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#649626 - 04/01/21 09:53 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Lazarus]
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JohnJohnJohn Offline
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To Lazarus: THANK YOU for bringing this topic to life and bringing excellent advice along with plenty of examples to back up your viewpoints!

To PGM (PeterGannon, Jareth, Tobin): THANK YOU SO MUCH for listening, participating in the discussion, for checking out the advice/examples and for planning to study and implement some of this!

To the BIAB-Can-Already-Do-That Club: I know you are well-meaning and I get that BIAB is a toolbox. But so is my closet full of guitars! So is my PC full of virtual instrument samples! Why in the world would I need BIAB then? Simple, because BIAB can do a LOT MORE than just be a toolbox!

As an example, I have a banjo I play reasonably well, a mandolin I can noodle about on and a fiddle not so much. I could literally spend the rest of my life learning these instruments and never be able to produce the high quality bluegrass song that BIAB can do in a matter of minutes!

I could give the same example for country and for jazz and for classic rock. BIAB goes WAY BEYOND being a toolbox when it comes to these genres! Way beyond!

What I think Lazarus is asking for, and what I and others would love to see, is for BIAB to be able to create modern sounding pop music as easily as it can produce bluegrass, country, jazz and classic rock. This would be a HUGE selling point to modern music producers. And HUGE value to those of us trying to produce more modern music.

And the answer is NOT "BIAB can already do that" or "just dive deep enough and you can figure it out"! I have sampled so many songs in the showcase here and haven't found anything that sounds modern (post a link if you think I'm wrong!) There is a bunch of really great music there, built with BIAB's tried and true functionality (as well as skill and talent of the artists). But IMHO nothing that compares to the songs on the list Lazarus provided earlier in this discussion. Someone in this discussion claimed they replicated 5 modern songs in less than an hour but were not able to share that work. I would still like to hear those examples!

I am extremely excited about the potential here and appreciative of the interest expressed by PGM!

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#649637 - 04/01/21 11:24 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
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DeaconBlues09 Offline
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Loc: Ashkelon, Israel
All right John X3, I'll bite.

Pick one song from the list.



Edited by DeaconBlues09 (04/01/21 11:24 AM)
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#649654 - 04/01/21 02:04 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: DeaconBlues09]
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JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Originally Posted By: DeaconBlues09
All right John X3, I'll bite.

Pick one song from the list.


Well DB09, nothing to bite! laugh Take an hour or so and listen to all of the songs on Lazarus' list. This will give you a good intro to the modern pop music he is describing. I was familiar with maybe 3 or 4 of these; I enjoyed them all. And they all have a modern sound. And I have yet to find a way to produce comparable modern-sounding songs with BIAB. I'm sure BIAB can be useful as part of a toolbox to produce bits and pieces I could use to build a modern pop song in my DAW but what I am hoping for is for BIAB to get us closer to a modern pop song in the same way it does with bluegrass, country, jazz and classic rock.

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#649731 - 04/02/21 03:52 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Lazarus]
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Pipeline Offline
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I read this first post but didn't go through all the others.
See here:
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=613412

There is something called UserTracks for this reason. Look at the link, I got in contact with Chris and he was interested in creating commercial UserTracks and is currently working on them.
I'm sure if you contact artists they would be interested in creating UserTracks to post, I don't think you can expect PG to cater for everything.
The PG community needs to encourage this, I posted this around BUT there were only 2 replies to the link above.
You can contact session players and let them know.
There are tools like JJazzLab that will open UserTrack Templates SGUs and use any Yamaha keyboard style to play them.
This will let the session players open the UserTrack Template and save to Midi file, this will be dropped into their DAW, AND because I asked JJazzLab to export midi with midi chord marker names they will have the chords in their DAW and be able to record to the Yamaha Style !
Now, if you want to keep asking PG year in year out you can, BUT if you contribute to what I talked about things WILL happen, but how it is now no one out there knows about creating commercial UserTracks to sell to Biab customers the only way they will find out is if you email them.
Send them a link to JJazzLab and a link to PG Download UserTrack Templates halfway down page not the 1min ones they are useless,
Yamaha Styles download for JJazLab
Click on any keyboard on the left hand side:
https://psrtutorial.com/sty/yamaha/index.html
more:
http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/stylesites.htm

When the session musicians post their UserTrack creation, if you support them it will support more UserTracks being made, more interest, maybe more people buying Biab & BBPlugin, more development put into UserTrack features by PG.
_________________________
ReaTrak Biab & Plugin in Reaper
Free Biab Chord Picker Tool

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#649799 - 04/02/21 01:21 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Lazarus]
Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 3083
JohnJohnJohn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 3083
Interesting addition to the convo Pipeline.

But this approach requires finding music producers who are willing/able to learn to use BIAB/UserTracks. And it assumes that UserTracks are complete, usable, documented and relatively free of bugs. Is that the case at this time?

And then beyond all that we still wouldn't gain any RealStyles that would help a "regular" BIAB user to produce modern pop music.

I'm still excited about the potential of UserTracks but this thread is yielding very positive results in moving forward with adding new, modern styles to BIAB.

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#649815 - 04/02/21 03:09 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 6296
Pipeline Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 6296
"Third Party" is what it needs, third party RealStyles, RealDrums and because you don't have third party RealTracks we have UserTracks, sure as I said they still need fixing but you need the popularity for this to happen. There are third party EZkey/Drums & Bass libraries, third party Kontakt libraries.
"But this approach requires finding music producers who are willing/able to learn to use BIAB/UserTracks. "
The first session player I contacted about this said yes so is it worth contacting more ?
I bet ya if I contacted drummers or drum sites now and I gave them all the info I made for pg users here
https://www.realband.org/tutorial-drums1.html
https://www.realband.org/tutorial-drums2.html
they would be in on it.
I can do this now and I'm sure I would get a lot of others interested and doing it, but I'm a bit worn out these days from constant giving out frown So that's why I'm trying to encourage other here to do this.

Using "Styles", a producer way back told me that all Biab songs sound the same, I think this is because they use a style out of the box add vocals and that's it. I work with musicians that have done this, I thought that sounds good but then you hear the exact same style someone else has used for their song, so using out of the box styles I don't think is good, I think with all the RT/RD you should make up your own unique style for you own songs.
The poster said about using EZkeys and UJAM etc.. this would make it more unique.
What about a Dice that will create up a unique style from chosen range of inputs ?
Generate Style > Play > don't like > Generate Style > Play ....

I posted this elsewhere about how EZBass/Drummer has a search for same phrase and tap2find,
I said I could generate up all RealDrumCharts (midi) and put them into EZDrummer and I would instantly find the RealDrum I need same with all the RealBassCharts.
The same can be done with other instruments RealCharts.
_________________________
ReaTrak Biab & Plugin in Reaper
Free Biab Chord Picker Tool

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#649820 - 04/02/21 03:58 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Make BIAB more useful to contemporary pop songwriters. [Re: Lazarus]
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 2728
Rustyspoon# Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 2728
JJJ,
I suggested User Tracks in my reply to Lazarus...second reply to this tread.
No, a musician does not have to know or have BIAB to do User Tracks. They are not complicated to make, once you do one. I have compiled one (with pipeline's help). recorded by a gentleman from Fiverr. He never heard of BIAB. Came out from first try. It was just a short, simple thing that I needed. So instead of making him play something particular, I decided to do a User Track, so I can change things if I needed. You can try it:
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=609080#Post609080

Personally I think User Tracks have Huge potential. Why? Because if you find the right boys or girls, it can happen within days and be specific to your particular needs. And consider this... unlike traditional genres, Cont.Pop relies heavily on synths. If musician can do it once, they can change things relatively fast, unlike acoustic or electric instruments.
Also, there are great thousands of contemporary genre midi things, paid and free that can sound as good as your synth is, which can be incorporated in BIAB arrangement.

PG music has deep connections in music world, and seems there is a hint of commitment to do Pop oriented things. Hopefully we will see them in a form of pack or a set.

P.S. One last thing. I had requested it in the past (RT request section), but since this grew to something more than just simple "wish", I will add this: I believe it is a good idea to add a straight rhythm, non jazz or soloist Brass / Woodwinds tracks that can be used for Pop music. While there are some very cool winds available, I find choices suitable for Pop very slim. Brass/Winds are special instruments, that are very hard to "program" they need to be played. Just saying smile

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Just Released - Xtra Styles PAK 11 for Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Windows!

We've added 200 exciting new RealStyles with the just-released Xtra Styles PAK 11 for Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Windows - 50 each for Jazz 11, Country 11, Rock & Pop 11, and Half & Double Time 1!

We think you'll love the new RealStyles and MultiStyles added with Xtra Styles PAK 11, which includes new sounds like modern reggaeton, medieval-inspired folk pop, Americana power ballad, speakeasy vocal jazz, R&B and reggae fusion, and more!

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XTRA STYLES PAKS ARE ON SALE UNTIL MAY 31st! During our Xtra Styles PAK 11 special, all of our Xtra Styles PAKs 1-11 are on sale for just $29 each (reg. $49)! Looking for more Xtra Styles PAKs? Until May 31st, you can purchase our complete library of all 1,800+ RealStyles with the Xtra Styles PAK 1-11 Bundle for only $199 (reg. $349)! Learn more & order now.

Interested in a specific genre? These can be purchased for $15 each - pick & choose here.

NOTE: Xtra Styles PAKs require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition version 2020 or 2021. (Xtra Styles PAK 11 requires the 2021 UltraPAK/UltraPAK+/Audiophile Edition.) Xtra Styles PAKs won't work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

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Want to customize your Band-in-a-Box® song? Head into the Song Settings window to adjust settings for endings, tags, style variations, pushes, rests, chord embellishments, and more!

To access Song Settings in Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Windows, use Ctrl+N or choose the Edit | Song Form | Settings (for This Song) option.

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Estamos ocupados e adicionamos 80 novos recursos e uma coleção incrível de novos conteúdos, incluindo 202 RealTracks, novos RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Estudos Instrumentais, Performances de Artistas, Bonus RealDrums "Singles", transcrições de RealDrums, MultiStyles PAK 1, Xtra Styles PAK 10 e mais!

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En PG Music tenemos el placer de anunciar la disponibilidad de Band-in-a-Box 2021 en Español. Despues de arduo trabajo hemos agregado, entre otras cosas, 80 funciones nuevas y una gran colección de nuevas incorporaciones y contenido que incluyen 202 RealTracks, nuevos RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Estudios Instrumentales, Interpretaciones de Artistas, RealDrums 'Single' adicionales, transcripciones de RealDrums, MultiStyles PAK 1, Xtra Styles PAK 10 ¡y mucho mas!

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