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I realize I should know this -- okay I've reached the bottom and I'm ashamed. But I have to ask or if I spend another sleepless night at this then BiaB is going packing! I need my sleep more than I need to toot a horn. But, the wife says I will toot -- then I must toot! Thus, I come to you ...
Okay, many years ago I played trumpet. Over the past several years I've dabbled with guitar. Well, the wife went and messed up my perfectly dull life and bought me both for Christmas. I now have a beautiful new trumpet and guitar starring at me at this very moment BEGGING me to play them.
Here's the deal ... I want to play both. I have purchased a few play-along jazz books for my Trumpet. I have purchased a few play-along books for my Guitar. I want to use BiaB to practice, play along, and when I get much better (perhaps when he** freezes over), then I think I might enjoy hearing myself play along with these backing tracks that I've bought. And yes, I'll probably lie and tell the grand-kids that I used to play the "strip".
Finally! Here's the question (and yes, I've read the posts about transposing at all hours of the night -- and day): Other than telling me that this software has 99 different ways I can approach this, can you tell me how I COULD best deal with the transposing issue. Note: The Trumpet play-along's are written for Bf Trumpet.
Thank you ... I'll check for answers here when the sun comes up! If things don't go right, I'll MAKE that guitar sound the same as a trumpet!
Ike
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Hi, Russell - Of course, I'm having this image of how you're going to play both instruments at the same time...  Guitar and B-flat trumpet are one full step (two half-steps) apart. Guitar (and just FYI, piano) is keyed to "C", and of course your trumpet to "B-flat". So (and this is what confuses people) when you play a "C" on the trumpet, that's the same as a "B-flat" on the guitar (or piano). Trumpet music is written one full-step higher than guitar or piano music for the pitch to match. So, let's say you're reading your guitar music and want the trumpet sounds to match, then you need to play one note up. The first column below is the note you see on the guitar (or piano) music; the second is what you would play on the trumpet to match what the guitar/piano is playing: C --> D C#/Db --> D#/Eb D --> E D#/Eb --> F E --> F#/Gb F --> G F#/Gb --> G#/Ab G --> A G#/Ab --> A#/Bb A --> B A#/Bb --> C B --> C#/Db Try it - from the chart above, play a C on the guitar (or strum a C chord), then play a D on the trumpet. You'll see they match in pitch. Now, if you are going the other way, where you are reading the notes on the trumpet music and want the guitar to sound the same pitch as the trumpet, then you need to lower everything one full step. The first column below is the note on the trumpet music; the second is what you would play on the guitar (or piano): C --> A#/Bb C#/Db --> B D --> C D#/Eb --> C#/Db E --> D F --> D#/Eb F#/Gb --> E G --> F G#/Ab --> F#/Gb A --> G A#/Bb --> G#/Ab B --> A Try it - from the chart above, play an E on the trumpet and you'll see that you'll need to play a D (or strum a D chord) on the guitar to match it. I hope that helped and didn't just confuse the issue.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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Good explanation.
Faced with that, ie. the wife on the flute and me on the trumpet with Band in a Box you need to print the music in the actual key (as John said) so if in Band in a Box it's written in C and sounds C you do that. Your options are to print both part, or have one person do the other part from band in a box.
If you find the P for Practice icon, there's a button to transpose the piece for Bb trumpet. Press that and note that the music goes to the key of G if you were in F and the you can play the trumpet along with it. Note that you are shown the piece on the screen in G but that it's still playing in F.
Probably some way to deal with the guitar and a capo but I'm no guitarist, however if you can stick one on and both end up in the same key that's another workaround.
Playing the trumpet and the guitar at the same time must be a hard thing to do.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Playing the trumpet and the guitar at the same time must be a hard thing to do.
You know John, it's funny you should ask ... Yes, it's been a heck of a ride! I'm now wondering if others who play two or more instruments have some of the same episodes as me. My trumpet fingers want to react automatically to the notation I'm viewing at the time and there's been a time or two when I've had to just stop and put the guitar (or the trumpet) away for a few, then come back with my 'other' hat on, and then it seems to fall together more times than not! I don't know why except to suggest that maybe I'm getting into the music (listening to my music) and I'm sometimes not 'consciously aware' of what instrument I'm playing.
On the other hand, I've been thinking that it's interesting (from a brain-mechanics point of view), that there is difficulty in all of this and yet, I'm pressing trumpet buttons with my right-hand and pressing frets with my left, so why SHOULD there be a problem at all!
Here's a scenario: I find myself sometimes WANTING to use my index finger to play a 'B' on the guitar (since that's what I use on the trumpet). I have to actually stop and think (in the middle of playing) until it kicks in, what I'm doing (BTW normally the lower-octave, guitar 'B' is played with an open string -- where I'm not pressing a fret at all -- interestingly enough, even though I've comitted that 'B' to automatic guitar-memory sometimes the 'trumpet memory' crosses over if you're not paying attention and your fingers want to take over! I know, I know ... Weird stuff!
In contemplating this the other night I found that I could trumpet-finger the chromatic scale with my left hand, just as easily as my right! Now where did that come from? And up until now, It's never occurred to me that I even knew how to do this (not that there's any value to it of course)! It has proven to be an interesting set of circumstances to say the least (from a scientific view).
Certainly somebody's had to pick up on this stuff before and I'm sure there's probably books on the stuff. Oh, and I play split-hand piano too -- I don't even want to begin to think where that's going to go!
FYI -- I had a former instructor who in jazz band would come down off the podium and (with any score we knew how to play), bounce from one instrument to the other and never miss a beat -- and he knew how to play every one of those instruments before he was 13 years old! I tell ya' ... during those times it sure made us jazz-wanna-be's think long and hard about whether we should even consider this business to pay for our meat and potatoes -- I know that it made me envision myself starving!
Ike
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi Russell. I hope the trumpet note you are playing with your index finger is Bb, not B (natural). Otherwise, your slide has been cut, your hand position is wrong, or that's one funky horn.
There is some use for fingering with the left hand: French horn. I know what you mean about the surprise of finding out you could finger with either hand. I had a broken finger once on my right hand, and played a concert using my left hand to finger. No problem. Got to be a brain thing, because it sure isn't muscle memory in the conventional sense.
Some people who switch instruments have a problem because they have such an ingrained sense of what a certain pitch should sound like, that they can't make the mental adjustment when playing a transposing instrument where the same written note sounds different. My main instruments are pitched in C (trumpet, flute, vibes), Bb (flugelhorn, trumpet, soprano sax), A (piccolo trumpet) and G (alto flute). Got a few others, too. Sometimes it is a bit of a mind-bender when switching. The important thing is you follow what John said and make sure that you know what key the song is in and whether or not any transposition is in effect, because when you load the song in BIAB, there is no obvious way to tell. I make separate folders for songs in different pitches for different instruments. Some people name the song with the key in the name. But find something to keep it straight.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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I switch hands on the horn all the time, but a euph or bari makes that pretty easy. I don'[t have that problem with the keyboard and the horn though, I just have to add in enough bridge to make sure I can get one down and the other going.
Is it a C trumpet? Maybe Matt knows the fingering for a C trumpet, everything is Bflat here.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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It's highly unlikely Russell was given a C trumpet, but that would solve some problems.
As for fingering, it's the same as Bb although many C trumpets have a few notes where alternate fingerings are more in tune. D, Eb and E at the top of the staff are often better with alternate fingering (play it as if the note were down an octave).
The whole principle behind fingering on transposing instruments is that you should be able to learn one fingering, and, by reading the music for the appropriate key, always play that note with (almost) the same fingering. When I play soprano or tenor sax (in Bb), I finger them the same as I do when I play alto or bari (in Eb). Otherwise, it would be a nightmare to switch horns.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Quote:
Probably some way to deal with the guitar and a capo but I'm no guitarist
Re the capo: Check out this rather humorous video from the incomparable Martin Taylor:
Down at Cocomo's
Trust me, it's worth your time.
(Guitarists may appreciate the capo thing more than others.)
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Steel pans on a guitar. Excellent.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Matt, I need to study the alternative fingerings, but we get a weekly lesson in what finger to use when. 3 instead of 1 and 2. 13 cents in some keys, makes it way easier to lip the note.
I'll ask Dr. Hank the keys it works best in and get back to you. But you can't go by the tempered scale. Pythagoras and his theories.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Most, not all, C trumpets play more in tune with 1 & 3 for D above middle C, then 2 & 3 for Eb, then 1 & 2 for E. Doesn't matter much what key you are in; if the note is flatter than a pancake, it's going to sound bad in any key. For most players, I think lipping up is harder than lipping down.
I never use 3 alone on a C. I use 3 alone a lot on a Bb trumpet or flugel, though, mostly for speed.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Tholse thinking that they might be able to use a C trumpet for playing pop, rock or jazz music and get away with reading the Concert keys on charts should also be informed that the C Trumpet has quite a different tonality than the Bb Trumpet and may not end up sounding all that great at the genre.
--Mac
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I can appreciate that. I have a friend who plays C-trumpet exclusively because he 'swears' by it. Evidently it was given to him after high-school. But, he's been told repeatedly that his horn is too 'bright' and truthfully I think it's cost him a gig or two -- he is a talented player. I'm not sure he can hear the difference -- even my non-musician friends can hear the difference. In fact, I've given him my Bf to try (I haven't played in years) and he himself doesn't hear a difference -- I think he's gone tone dead.
Ike
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Quote:
Guitar and B-flat trumpet are one full step (two half-steps) apart.
I'm not understanding something (par for the course). I know, my theorizing here is just MY simple mind. In my mind, the difference between B and C is one note. Now I add in the fact that B-flat is half a note / tone lower than B-natural and there ya' have it ... a difference of one and one half (1-1/2). What am I thinking here? Why do you say what you say here? Why one full step?
Ike
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Well, two half-steps equals one full step.
If you're having trouble visualizing what a half-step is, think of adjacent keys on the piano (and use the BACK of the keyboard).
From C down to B natural is a half-step.
From B natural down to Bb is a half-step.
Since a Bb horn is pitched one full step lower than concert pitch, the music written for it must be pitched one full step in the other direction (higher) to compensate.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Quote:
I can appreciate that. I have a friend who plays C-trumpet exclusively because he 'swears' by it. Evidently it was given to him after high-school. But, he's been told repeatedly that his horn is too 'bright' and truthfully I think it's cost him a gig or two -- he is a talented player. I'm not sure he can hear the difference -- even my non-musician friends can hear the difference. In fact, I've given him my Bf to try (I haven't played in years) and he himself doesn't hear a difference -- I think he's gone tone dead.
In general, you are correct. A C trumpet usually sounds both 'brighter' and 'lighter' than a Bb, assuming you can find words to quantify such things. However, individual horns make a difference. There exist darker sounding C trumpets and brighter sounding Bb horns. My Calicchio Bb is pretty bright, for example, whereas my Bach Bb is 'average'.
Also, an individual player makes perhaps even more of a difference. I will sound like me playing his horns, and he will sound like him playing my horns, at least once we are used to them.
Finally, the choice of mouthpiece makes a difference. If your friend always sounds too bright, he could explore something like a Curry TF mouthpiece, which makes a trumpet sound closer to a flugelhorn. Or a thousand other choices, each one subtle and each one expensive to experiment with unless you take a listening friend to a shop with a large selection to try. Something as small as a deeper cup on the same rim size could be all he needs. Any good teacher could help, or have him ask about it on TrumpetHerald.com
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Matt, I sure would like for you and Dr. Hank to be in the same room and have a discussion. A guy with his experience, well maybe I`m jaded or something.
He is an ex pat American, both he and his wife. He`s a Phd in horn, is wife is choral, although she is a dean now.
A kinder better teacher you would never see. I get a Master Class every Wednesday most of the year.
When we got into the discussion about mouthpieces his words were..it means nothing.. a good horn player can play with any major mouthpiece and make it sound perfect.
I`ll drag up the video of him making a horn...it`s cool. And post some more stuff with him talking to youtube.
He does travel a lot.
Look up Dr. Henry Meredith on google. He is now up to about 4500 brass instruments in his house.
Some worth 60 to 80k. But at the end of the day, he gave the wife and I an hour course in a parking lot one day. The wife plays most anything but never did a 3 valve instrument..and now he says she could be principal baritone someplace. But that`s 30 plus years of education and she can count even if it`s 22 bars at 2 2 time. Drives me nuts.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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John, I always enjoy your stories about that director. He certainly has amazing abilities, and you and your wife are very fortunate.
I'm sure he would be way over my head. I'm just a self-taught jazz player.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Okay I get it. So then in MY backward way of thinking ... Wouldn't a C-flat (yes I hear the laughter) equal / be the same as a B-natural ?
Ike
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Yes. They are enharmonic equivalents.
Be aware that BIAB does not support Cb, B#, E# or Fb.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
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