Programming it with a slash chord works, but it becomes pretty monotonous because the bass doesn't change the rhythm any. It just plods along playing a note every beat. I was looking more for a way to make it stay on the one note but vary the octave and add syncopation, the way it would do naturally if I just let it do its own thing with the chords.
Equipment: Yamaha 5'6" grand piano. BIAB for Macintosh 2017 --> 2020. MacBook Pro. Focusrite 2i2, Yamaha YC 88 keyboard
"Why do I have to go to school, Grandad? If I watch YouTube I'll know everything!" - Grandson #3
You may be confusing "slash chords" with pedals. If a chord with an /x after it plays only one note in quarter beats, it's because it likely plays one note in quarter beats under the natural root. You should enter the slash note with your chord entry by computer keyboard. (Chord name) / (New Root). Different bass RT's will handle this info in different ways. Try a different bass RT or regenerate Bass until you find one closer to your liking.
There may also be other options in the new utility tracks to "change" notes...not quite sure about that myself yet. Regardless, the rhythm of the bass will be what was recorded for that bass-line with whatever variations that includes.
Beyond that, MIDI is the option when you want complete control over all aspects.
Since you want more movement from the bass (not just main notes), there are some alternatives. A bit more work, but certainly do-able...
One way would be to begin by creating your BIAB file (SGU) with your chosen chord (Bb for example) as the only chord in the verse and your other chord in the chorus (Ex. Eb) and generate the bass track and FREEZE it. Then, continue to input the rest of your chords for the song for your other instruments to play.
The other way would be to make a separate SGU - with those two chords (if you did not want to start over to do the Freeze thing). Again, just use your 2 Bass notes and export the audio. You can then import that into you other BIAB file as an audio track. I believe that if you name it properly (I do not know what that name IS, but others can probably tell you - Charlie Fogle or Noel Adams would likely know), and put it in the same folder as you full SGU, it will automatically load it to the Bass track...
Programming it with a slash chord works, but it becomes pretty monotonous because the bass doesn't change the rhythm any. It just plods along playing a note every beat. I was looking more for a way to make it stay on the one note but vary the octave and add syncopation, the way it would do naturally if I just let it do its own thing with the chords.
If you can play a bit of the keyboard, it's super easy to play the bass on it into a midi track. Since it IS Band in A Box, and since it is MIDI, you can even change the tempo to a slower BPM to play and record comfortably and then back to normal tempo for playback. A mouse can drag the wrong notes in edit mode. Move it to a DAW when you like the track and insert the synth and sample of your choice.
That's how I would do it if I wanted something other than what the RT's would yield.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
Thanks for all the input. I did eventually manage to get quite a decent bass track with the slash chord method, but it caused some weird sounds from the guitar track because that also is generating slash chords with the Eb and Bb bass. I think I'll have to explore making a specific midi track for the bassline, although I might try Floyd's suggestion of freezing a bass track generated on its own.
The tune is still starting to sound pretty cool though! :-)
Can anyone point me to a youtube video that explores the topic of making midi tracks for BIAB? I've used BIAB quite a bit from the laptop keyboard to generate backing tracks but I know nothing yet about inputting into BIAB from my electronic keyboard. I'm on a steep learning curve here!
Equipment: Yamaha 5'6" grand piano. BIAB for Macintosh 2017 --> 2020. MacBook Pro. Focusrite 2i2, Yamaha YC 88 keyboard
"Why do I have to go to school, Grandad? If I watch YouTube I'll know everything!" - Grandson #3
<< I did eventually manage to get quite a decent bass track with the slash chord method, but it caused some weird sounds from the guitar track because that also is generating slash chords with the Eb and Bb bass. >>
To avoid these anomalies on other tracks in the future, Create your chord chart normally, generate the chord chart and freeze all the tracks except the Bass. Then edit the chord chart to contain the slash chords and generate the Bass track. The other tracks will not generate and the bass will follow the slash chords.
generate the chord chart and freeze all the tracks except the Bass. Then edit the chord chart to contain the slash chords and generate the Bass track.
Yes! Thank you. I'll go back and do that.
Is it possible to use the notation chart to enter a "melody" on the bass track? Then I could make a transcript of the bass line from the original recording on Coltrane's Giant Steps album. Is that feasible?
Equipment: Yamaha 5'6" grand piano. BIAB for Macintosh 2017 --> 2020. MacBook Pro. Focusrite 2i2, Yamaha YC 88 keyboard
"Why do I have to go to school, Grandad? If I watch YouTube I'll know everything!" - Grandson #3
............... Is it possible to use the notation chart to enter a "melody" on the bass track? Then I could make a transcript of the bass line from the original recording on Coltrane's Giant Steps album. Is that feasible?
With MIDI yes. With Realtracks no.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
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I needed to take a second look also. I agree with Matt's interpretation. That's how I thought about it any way. Interestingly, what I found was that you cannot use the Slash root for the same key. Not sure why, but it won't allow you to enter it, regardless of the key signature. I tried a few different tests.
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Interestingly, the Chord Builder will allow the slash chord to be entered, and it plays it (in the builder), but it doesn't allow it to be passed on to the chord sheet.
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Hi Jeff Frankly, I really don't know way it's not possible to force (encourage?) the bass the play the same note as the chord root. I've never tried it before and was just as surprised when it didn't deliver the expectation.
I think we've stumbled onto something...
There is an option in Song Settings: "Ignore Slash Root of Slash Chords (eg C/E), except Bass Track" If this is set, the RealTracks other than the Bass track will not play the slash root of chords. For example, the RealTracks will play C instead of C/E.
But when set that didn't appear to work for me, anyway. I still could not enter a slash chord with the same key in the chord sheet (e.g. F/F).
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It's a machine, I was trying to do shots on D bass in a 12 bar blues in D, but it kept playing different notes. After trying for hours I thought it was a bug until seeing your post, then the penny dropped, it was shot-ing on D but hitting random chord tones so I had to enter Bb/D to make it work.
Now I want to enter a 4 bar drum solo & can't find a drumkit in the soloists list, PG customer support maintains that drummers don't play solo's.
I’m not at a computer now, but you can set a Pedal bass in BIAB, so I wonder how short it can be. I think I recall it would have to be a full measure minimum, perhaps more. If anyone could check that, it might explain why we get these results, that PG Music expects us to use another method.
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It's on the chord settings (right-click->Chord Settings, or Alt-F5).
I found the D/D and similar curious. In a purely notational sense, there's no need for it. but as a means explicitly to instruct the bass to just follow the bass line, it's kind-of reasonable, maybe even inevitable.
Code:
Track Settings and Actions->Options for selected track->simpler
(F7) might help. In my limited tries, it seemed to change bass to alternating just the root and the fifth, rather than arpeggiating the whole chord.
Last edited by Gordon Scott; 09/06/2204:26 AM. Reason: added "F7"
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
A D chord entered with a slash note for the bass on D.
In this case, since the D note is the root of D chord, it's a given so it defaults to the normal view of D unlike if you wanted a D chord with a G in the bass..... D/G
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
A D chord entered with a slash note for the bass on D.
In this case, since the D note is the root of D chord, it's a given so it defaults to the normal view of D unlike if you wanted a D chord with a G in the bass..... D/G
But it doesn't accept D/D as the input, neither does it play a D bass. All of these chords were entered as D/D. That is what has become the conundrum here:
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This is interesting and indeed a bug that should be fixed. But it seems there is a somewhat complicated way to force Band in a Box to play the root of the key as slash bass. To do this, you have to specify the slash bass in each bar individually via the chord builder, for example D/D. If you only copy the bar into others or make no chord input in the next bars, the slashbass will be suspended again. In my example below I did it like this for the first two bars, then it works with the D in the bass track. But I have not tried this with other styles. It will not show the slash bass in the chord view and notation view. By the way: the keyboard shortcut ALT+F5 should also get fixed as this still does not invoke the chord settings.
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Brille, appreciate your input. Inspired by what you mentioned, I tried many different ways with varying levels of success. In my case, I 'think' the constant D in the bass was more of a coincidence than my designed outcome. I tried the slash D in beats 1&2 and also 3&4. Each generation gave a different outcome, and this first screen capture was the closest after several tries. The second screen capture was another generation from the same file. Bass line has the note D in different parts of the bar.
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Audiotrack, you're right, I looked at it again after your post and it really was just a coincidence. Too bad, it seemed to work that way initially.
Appreciate your input and feedback, Brille. I think that we have identified either an issue or an undocumented feature. I can see no reason why the slash note should not follow the chord. I think we'll take this to the developers for clarification / resolution.
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Floyd Jane Quote, 4/14/21: << You can then import that into you other BIAB file as an audio track. I believe that if you name it properly (I do not know what that name IS, but others can probably tell you - Charlie Fogle or Noel Adams would likely know), and put it in the same folder as you full SGU, it will automatically load it to the Bass track... >>
Floyd is correct and he's referring to Artist Performance Files. (PG Music refers to them as Performance Files in the Mixer settings. One can see that this is a very versatile and powerful tool from the description below.
PG Music, Andrew Quote 12/4/13 from the UserTracks Forum: << ----- 7. Artist Performance Files.
These are audio files, that you put on a track, that can also have the MIDI transcription of it. People hear the audio, and see the MIDI in notation/guitar tab etc. For example, if you are a great bluegrass fiddle player, you could put your songs in this format. People can listen to your real playing, see the notes on screen, slow them down etc. - all inside Band-in-a-Box where they can do other things like solo/mute other tracks, mix them etc. >>
FYI Audiotrack passed this to the developers, and a little more discussion has taken place. While we would never write a chord like D/D in regular notation, it would be useful to be able to have this level of precision in programming BIAB.
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FYI Audiotrack passed this to the developers, and a little more discussion has taken place. While we would never write a chord like D/D in regular notation, it would be useful to be able to have this level of precision in programming BIAB.
Though it might perhaps be better as a bass-specific option rather than a notation option. Of course there's a significant overlap, but to me the slash-chords approach just feels like a kludge.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
Yes, it is a bass-specific option just for BIAB programming. It’s not a request for this to be notation. It’s no different a direction to BIAB than is ^D/C..bd which is also not notation.
For example, if I want to force a descending bass line I would like to be able to write D/F,D/E | D/D,D/C
Writing just D instead of D/D does not guarantee BIAB will play a D in the bass there.
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Yes, it is a bass-specific option just for BIAB programming. It’s not a request for this to be notation. It’s no different a direction to BIAB than is ^D/C..bd which is also not notation.
For example, if I want to force a descending bass line I would like to be able to write D/F,D/E | D/D,D/C
Writing just D instead of D/D does not guarantee BIAB will play a D in the bass there.
I suppose what I find uncomfortable is that I see slash chords, at least in part, as an indication of a desired inversion rather than a specific direction to the bass player, though the bass player will normally follow that line anyway, so perhaps I'm being over picky.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
It’s a good question because my understanding was the reverse. I think the only purpose of a / in BIAB Is to specify the bass. We have no control, to my knowledge, over the inversion played. It would be nice if PG Music could comment.
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<< While we would never write a chord like D/D in regular notation >>
This puzzles me, likely from my lack of knowledge of notation, but if the Bass music is playing D/D, why would that never be notated? What would be the correct notation?
From my novice understanding, in Matt's example, if I want to force a descending bass line I would like to be able to write D/F,D/E | D/D,D/C; Wouldn't the bass notation be written to follow the slash chords exactly?
Any bass player I know would see that progression, recognize a descending bass line, and play the D. Would a computer algorithm? I don’t know, so I would like to make it perfectly clear.
Would you write D/C..bd on a leadsheet? No. Would BIAB understand and use that expression correctly? Yes.
By the way, on a leadsheet, it’s fine to write only the slash root if the underlying chord remains the same. So you might see Dm and then later in the measure see just /C and you know this means keep playing Dm but add the descending bass note of C Can you do that in BIAB? I don’t think so (I need to try it).
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Simplistically, the most recent discussion here which has been very worthwhile, is that an anomaly has been identified whereas BiaB has the ability to control the exact bass note to be played - as long as it is not the same as the named chord.
To explain: A/B is OK. The required played note by the bass is always B. A/G is OK The required played note by the bass is always G. or any other variation.
However: A/A does not work reliably where the required played note by the bass is A
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Any bass player I know would see that progression, recognize a descending bass line, and play the D. Would a computer algorithm? I don’t know, so I would like to make it perfectly clear.
Would you write D/C..bd on a leadsheet? No. Would BIAB understand and use that expression correctly? Yes.
By the way, on a leadsheet, it’s fine to write only the slash root if the underlying chord remains the same. So you might see Dm and then later in the measure see just /C and you know this means keep playing Dm but add the descending bass note of C Can you do that in BIAB? I don’t think so (I need to try it).
Thanks for your reply Matt. It gives me a better understanding in regard to notation. Presently, if I'm in need of a D/D or the same with any key, it's a simple copy/paste for me to do in just a few seconds using the BIAB Audio Editor to edit a root D bass note to the correct position but an avoidable edit if PG Music were to do as suggested and make the D/D command possible.
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