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#655419 - 05/13/21 12:43 AM [RealBand] why doesn't RB preserve the volume automation, when one regenerates all the RealTracks?
Registered: 05/05/19
Posts: 33
acidbent Offline
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Registered: 05/05/19
Posts: 33
is this another bug?


why doesn't RB preserve the volume automation (volume keyframe), when one regenerates all the RealTracks?

this doesnt make sense


I created volume levels for all my tracks, took me 3 hours to do it...

and then I regenerated all my realtracks...

and guess what,,, all my volume level settings (bar by bar) are lost..


doesnt make sense


Edited by acidbent (05/13/21 06:49 AM)

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#655424 - 05/13/21 01:34 AM [RealBand] Re: why doesn't RB preserve the volume automation, when one regenerates all the RealTracks? [Re: acidbent]
Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 1714
Loc: Essex England
Bob Calver Offline
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Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 1714
Loc: Essex England
yes i think it does make sense. 'regenerate' means 'start again'. why did you regenerate?

when BIAB or RB creates a RealTrack instrumental part, the virtual musician plays around the chord sequence from a set of prerecorded phrases and licks. it can be different every time you regenerate.

RB allows you to regenerate the entire track to get a different 'take' or just a short section if you like most of the track but not a particular section or riff. indeed, multiriff gives you seven different choices.

by regenerating all or bits of a track you get a finished instrumental part you are happy with(using cut and paste from several different 'takes' if necessary).

when you have the tracks you like for every part, then is the time to mix it with volume changes.

if you mix then regenerate it's like saying to a live band 'ive done the mix but now can you play it again?'. the band might play something different that doesn't work with the volume changes you recorded.

so yes i think what happened to you does make sense.

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#655446 - 05/13/21 06:52 AM [RealBand] Re: why doesn't RB preserve the volume automation, when one regenerates all the RealTracks? [Re: Bob Calver]
Registered: 05/05/19
Posts: 33
acidbent Offline
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Registered: 05/05/19
Posts: 33


thanks for your reply.

Im not talking about the volume of the RealTrack itself.

I'm talking about the Volume Automation (in other DAW this is called volume keyframe)

completely different animals...

and it doesnt make sense to erase the volume keyframes... if you have used a DAW, they dont reset the keyframes..

and i spent 3 hours adjust the volume keyframes of all my tracks...

does your DAW erase your volume keyframes?

so I think this is a "bug"?




Originally Posted By: Bob Calver
yes i think it does make sense. 'regenerate' means 'start again'. why did you regenerate?

when BIAB or RB creates a RealTrack instrumental part, the virtual musician plays around the chord sequence from a set of prerecorded phrases and licks. it can be different every time you regenerate.

RB allows you to regenerate the entire track to get a different 'take' or just a short section if you like most of the track but not a particular section or riff. indeed, multiriff gives you seven different choices.

by regenerating all or bits of a track you get a finished instrumental part you are happy with(using cut and paste from several different 'takes' if necessary).

when you have the tracks you like for every part, then is the time to mix it with volume changes.

if you mix then regenerate it's like saying to a live band 'ive done the mix but now can you play it again?'. the band might play something different that doesn't work with the volume changes you recorded.

so yes i think what happened to you does make sense.


Edited by acidbent (05/13/21 06:54 AM)

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#655456 - 05/13/21 07:30 AM [RealBand] Re: why doesn't RB preserve the volume automation, when one regenerates all the RealTracks? [Re: acidbent]
Registered: 05/05/19
Posts: 33
acidbent Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/05/19
Posts: 33



by the way, I just discovered that this erasing of KeyFrame happens when "Generate ALL' or BBtracks are involved (in RealBand)

if you just generate single track, this doesnt seem to happen...




Originally Posted By: acidbent
is this another bug?


why doesn't RB preserve the volume automation (volume keyframe), when one regenerates all the RealTracks?

this doesnt make sense


I created volume levels for all my tracks, took me 3 hours to do it...

and then I regenerated all my realtracks...

and guess what,,, all my volume level settings (bar by bar) are lost..


doesnt make sense

Top
#655468 - 05/13/21 08:20 AM [RealBand] Re: why doesn't RB preserve the volume automation, when one regenerates all the RealTracks? [Re: acidbent]
Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 1714
Loc: Essex England
Bob Calver Offline
Expert

Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 1714
Loc: Essex England
i hope someone more knowledgeable than me can decide whether this is a bug or not. RB is working as i would expect. as far as my workflow is concerned i would never proceed to a finished mix - balance and volumes - unless i was happy with the individual tracks.

it seems odd to do all that work and then regenerate the tracks. what was wrong with the ones you were working with?

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#655496 - 05/13/21 10:17 AM [RealBand] Re: why doesn't RB preserve the volume automation, when one regenerates all the RealTracks? [Re: Bob Calver]
Registered: 05/05/19
Posts: 33
acidbent Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/05/19
Posts: 33

if you change chords, even just 1 chord, you need to regenerate..




Originally Posted By: Bob Calver
i hope someone more knowledgeable than me can decide whether this is a bug or not. RB is working as i would expect. as far as my workflow is concerned i would never proceed to a finished mix - balance and volumes - unless i was happy with the individual tracks.

it seems odd to do all that work and then regenerate the tracks. what was wrong with the ones you were working with?

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#655497 - 05/13/21 10:21 AM [RealBand] Re: why doesn't RB preserve the volume automation, when one regenerates all the RealTracks? [Re: acidbent]
Registered: 05/05/19
Posts: 33
acidbent Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/05/19
Posts: 33

status of RB erasing the volume keyframe:

1. If you click on the "Generate" icon and choose generate ALL tracks, then you lose the Volume Keyframe (volume automation)

2. If you individually, re-generate each Track (clicking on the Track name etc), then the Volume Keyframe is preserved. This is what I am doing now... (but I lost valuable hours and effort, in losing my keyframes, and more hours, in experimenting to discover this solution)



So, there's a bug somewhere...


Edited by acidbent (05/13/21 10:21 AM)

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#655498 - 05/13/21 10:23 AM [RealBand] Re: why doesn't RB preserve the volume automation, when one regenerates all the RealTracks? [Re: acidbent]
Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 1714
Loc: Essex England
Bob Calver Offline
Expert

Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 1714
Loc: Essex England
As I said, I don't mix until I'm happy with the tracks so I've never had the problem. Mix and master is my final step.

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#655521 - 05/13/21 02:13 PM [RealBand] Re: why doesn't RB preserve the volume automation, when one regenerates all the RealTracks? [Re: acidbent]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 21160
Loc: Mi., USA
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 21160
Loc: Mi., USA
Originally Posted By: acidbent



by the way, I just discovered that this erasing of KeyFrame happens when "Generate ALL' or BBtracks are involved (in RealBand)

if you just generate single track, this doesnt seem to happen...




Originally Posted By: acidbent
is this another bug?


why doesn't RB preserve the volume automation (volume keyframe), when one regenerates all the RealTracks?

this doesnt make sense


I created volume levels for all my tracks, took me 3 hours to do it...

and then I regenerated all my realtracks...

and guess what,,, all my volume level settings (bar by bar) are lost..


doesnt make sense


Sounds like you are trying to run RB in BiaB mode .. and BiaB doesn't support the volume automation at all (well not like RB).
So having those be reset would seem expected here.

When I open a BiaB file in RB, the first thing I do is use the Track - Make all tracks regular tracks option.

THEN I can continue to work like I am in a DAW, but if you are still trying to figure out the song structure BiaB style, RB ain't the place to do it.
It is a DAW that lets you generate BiaB tracks .. not BiaB with extra features.
Otherwise automation and such would be included in BiaB from the get-go.

RB 'borrows' the generate feature from BiaB, but it can't magically do things that BiaB can't do when you are using it in BiaB mode.

You want volume automation? Switch to all tracks being regular tracks.
I don't know how you would expect a newly generated track to work with the previous envelopes; that would be very rare.

Or since you seem to simply be cutting volume to zero and back up for certain sections, maybe using BiaB and the F5 Bar settings would be faster (mute/unmute at various bars).

Use the right tool for your workflow, but don't expect more than the tool can do.
(don't try to cut down a tree with a trim saw)
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Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome

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