PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows Band in a Box 2021 - Unstable

Ever since I upgrade to BIAB 2021, I'm having tones of issue.
All kind of errors, the process don't close properly, so I'm getting a lot of open processes in the Task manager, the program doesn't don't connect properly with my sound card and other frequently different errors.
Does anyone else having this problem?

):

Hi Goldy and welcome to the forums!

What operating system are you using, and which build? Please right click on the Start menu and choose Run, then enter in winver and press enter. What version number and build number are showing here?

Also, in Band-in-a-Box, go to the Help menu, and click About Band-in-a-Box. Near the top of that window, it will have Version 20xx and a number in brackets - what is that number?

Well no. Current version is very stable have not seen any shutdowns or lock ups in a very long long time. But drivers can be tricky to figure out and get them right.

Agreed. In addition, memory errors in your computer could cause the multiple processes issue - this particular problem is not one we have encountered here at PG. Given the other issues you're having, I'd recommend having your computer checked out (or at least run some diagnostics on it, like Memtest86 or similar). As well, make sure your Windows is up to date - Windows build 20H2 and 2004 both seem to be stable with BIAB, where older build versions like 1903 and 1909 were problematic.

Goldy.
as well as above please give details on your pc config;
also what sound device are you useing ?
best
oldmuso.

Hello Goldy,

It will really help us determine what exactly might be going on as well if you can provide as many specific details as you can about the errors you are getting, such as the full wording, and what in specific you're doing within the program (including menus accessed, actions taken, etc) when these messages pop up. Being as detailed as possible will give us a starting point to go from - but also, as was previously mentioned - including your computer's specs and any external devices you may be using (exact make and model) would also help a great deal.

If it's easier for you, you can always take screenshots of the requested information and e-mail it to support@pgmusic.com for further assistance.

One message and no response!

Troll?

I somehow doubt it as the O/P first registered in 2014.

Good catch! I missed that so I stand corrected.

While we have been victimized here by one-post trolls, and shaken by more concerted efforts to disrupt like that sociology class experiment, we need to be careful not to discourage new posters (and we are guilty of having done so).

Goldy was given the option by PG Music staff to contact PG Music Support, so it wouldn't even be wrong if he/she did not return here.

But Goldy, if you want to give us a shot, we are fellow users who can usually help, or at the very least, refine the problem(s). It is true that BIAB 2021 introduced several new features and it took many builds to identify and correct problems. Now, however, it seems to be quite stable, so lets work to solve your problems.

OK guys.
First - no troll .
I could find this thread and thought it wasn't published yet.

Now to the issue.
I'm working with this issue for a while with PG support.
What I was experience was all sort of strange behavior.
Some time when I open a song, it started with a kind of noise that getting stronger.
Some time no sound at all.
Some time all works fine.
Like i mention every song - a new process.
All sort of errors about the sound interface coming now and then.
No problem what so ever with other music software like Cubase.
Together with PG we tried all kind of definition with the sound card - didn't help.
All in all two day a go I gave up uninstall it and went back to ver 2020.
For now all is work great like it use to be.
Make no mistake - i love BIAB and use it a lot.

My computer run win 7, 16MB Ram, C-SSD,D-SSD, E-Normal disk (1TB).
BIAB sits on E.
Sound card - fireface 400, connect thru Firewire.
On the sound control panel, I use ASIO (We tried also MME and WAS).

Like I wrote, we tried al sort of definition - didn't help.
Realy strange.
I'm using BIAB for quit a while, and never had any problem at all.

Does that box have a USB option? I gave up on Firewire years ago.

Unfortunately no ):

Some more info:

1. I'm a computer tech by profession.
2. Test mem - OK
3. sfc / scannow - OK
4. uninstalled, reboot and re installed the FireFace drivers.
5. Reset BIAB definition back to default.
6. Windows build: 7601 service Pack 1.
7. AV - Kaspersky (tried to disabled it).

Like I said, now, in Ver 2020 - now problem any more.
I'll wait for a week, just to be sure all is well now, and tried to upgrade again.

Simon, I'm willing to send you the log of "get system info" if it will help.

Goldy - I have a Fireface 800 which uses the exact same driver as the 400, and it works well in BIAB. Can you confirm that you're using the latest driver and firmware for the Fireface? Latest driver version is 3.125, firmware is 1.71: https://rme-audio.com/downloads.html

As well, use the Fireface settings app in your taskbar to change the sample rate and buffer for the Fireface - use 44,100hz and set the buffer relatively high - 256, 512, 1024, etc...

Firewire devices often have issues with certain Firewire chipsets - in particular, the Texas Instruments chipsets are usually considered the best but some others might work well or not at all. Perhaps a different Firewire card could help. I mostly use my Mac Pro which I think has the TI chip, but I've also used cards from Agere/Lucent that worked well.

In addition, please right click on the Start menu and choose Run, then enter in winver and press enter. What version number and build number are showing here? The latest Windows version is 20H2 - try updating if you can.

*EDIT* Your response came through while I was typing mine - forget about the Windows version as I missed that you're on Win7. Try the buffer and sample rate settings and see how that goes.

Thanks Simon.

1.confirm that you're using the latest driver and firmware for the Fireface? - Yes (Version 3.125).
2.change the sample rate and buffer for the Fireface - use 44,100hz and set the buffer relatively high. - 512 and 44,100hz.
3. Firewire chipsets - the Texas Instruments.

Not sure, but I have a feeling that maybe it has something to do with the "Plugin" changing between 2020 and 2021.
Just a gut-feeling.

Are you having issues with the BIAB-VST or BIAB? What do you mean by Plugin?

Goldy.
you say that all is good with bb 2020.
thus i suggest that you do the following.
1. go into your bb2020 audio and midi driver settings.
and write down those settings.
2. NOW go into your bb 2021 audio and midi driver settings.
write down the settings once again.
DO YOU SEE ANY DISCREPENCIES BETWEEN THE TWO SETS OF SETTINGS ?

there are lots of musicians on these forums that are techs or ex retd techs ; thus between us all we should be able to figure the problem/solution out.
simon is always correct with all his good advice includeing TI chipsets are best for FW.

best
oldmuso

I’m reading after a lot of new information has been supplied. Very good.

I stopped using a FireWire device by Tascam years ago when they refused to release the updated driver they had. But I did go through the drill with a FireWire card with TI chipset, and Windows had dropped FireWire support. At this point I can’t help.

Hi.

I had to uninstall 2021 and reinstall 2020, so no more 2021

Hi Mat.

What puzzle me, is why all is well with Ver 2020, and not with 2021.

Puzzling indeed. I believe you are the first to report this problem. Although, your system has a couple of oddities, win7 and firewire, like you say 2020 had no issues with these.
Have you tried "run as administrator"? Or is that even a thing in Win7?
Have you tried to remove the Firewire and just run with windows audio out?
Have you tried the return to factory settings?

These are pretty standard actions when things are going wrong.

Win 7 definitely supported 'Run as administrator'

OK.
I'll run BIAB for a few more days - just to make sure all is well, and then reinstall 2021 and see.
Maybe there was some issues during the update.
After all 2020 is a clean install after removing BIAB.
This topic was just to make sure no one else is facing this issue.

PS - thinking of get a new Focusrite 4i4.
Anyone has experience with it?

The Focusrite is a very stable solution.

We haven't seen the issues you explained that you are experiencing in the 2021 versions, so this may indicate a local incompatibility issue. Do keep us informed though.

Goldy.
you never got back to me regarding my suggestion up thread.
so i'll repost it..as follows.
---------------------------------------------------
you say that all is good with bb 2020.
thus i suggest that you do the following.
1. go into your bb2020 audio and midi driver settings.
and write down those settings.
2. NOW go into your bb 2021 audio and midi driver settings.
write down the settings once again.
DO YOU SEE ANY DISCREPENCIES BETWEEN THE TWO SETS OF SETTINGS ?
------------------------------------------------------
frankly i wouldnt give up on the rme. its good gear.
(i suspect a settings difference between bb 20 and bb 21
is your problem .)
but if you decide to ; here is a thread i started on pg where many pg users have posted their audio interfaces that work well with pg products.
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=635707#Post635707
i would recommend you rent firstly any audio interface to see its compatibility. thats what i do before buying.

if you feel daring there are also usb mixers you can try like the allen n heath zed series or the soundcraft notepad series etc and others.
best
oldmuso

Hi.

Sorry. I thought I did.
Right now it's impossible, since I don't have 2021 any more (I had to remove it in order to install 2020).
I'm planing trying to upgrade again to 2021, and will take a snapshot of the audio and midi driver settings befor, so we can compare.
Technically, there shouldn't any different, since upgrading shouldn't change the audio and midi driver settings.

Goldy.
re you said "technically etc etc ".
i'd like a dollar lol for all the times i worked on big computer iron/systems ,and often that did not happen.
when it comes to tech "assume nothing" lol.
frankly i ditched the tech career cos i got fed up with CEO's // users with no tech background insisting my tech teams do the impossible in 3 months and do system features that any good tech team knew would take 3 years lol.

thus i'm a staunch long time pg supporter because i know tech isnt easy.
even though sometimes i take out my issues in the wishlist.lol. ie features i would like.
goldy ive lost count of how many songs ive done useing pg products over the years. often it comes down to a silly setting i didnt pay attention to. lol.
most times my error.

if settings between 20 bb and 21 bb DO MATCH.
in SUMMARY ensure bb21 settings/preferences match bb20.
then the only other idea i suggest is checking the following.
..settings in win devices recording and playback are 44.1/16
..settings in the rme control panel are the same 44.1/16
and thus match bb 21 44.1/16 settings.

best
oldmuso

44.1/16.

Work like this for many years.

as I have also posted earlier, RB2021 is buggy, sometimes I get a crash 4 times in an hour, and that's just editing chords and re-generating them.

as for BIAB2021 I also experienced similar crashes but since Im using RB for my purpose, then I didnt report BIAB2021.. just the RB ..

I agree with Videotrack on both counts here - I've got a Focusrite 2i2 mk3 on my desk here, and have had nary a hiccup with it. None of us here in tech support have seen your issues with multiple processes either, that is definitely a new one on us. Got another computer you can try 2021 on, or can you remove the Fireface and see if BB works properly when using your internal sound?

Goldy/Acidbent.
pg user david snyder has posted a song done with bb21 in the user showcase. so obviously users ARE getting songs done with bb21.
so maybe its not a bug in bb21. but something in your settings//prefs.

the idea of trying alternate computers//sound devices is a good one.
i assume also you have optimised your systems for music work.
(lots of guides on the net/you tube. just google.)

Acidbent.
i have a question for you re realband (rb).
how many traks is reported in rb by the rb feature in the menus "test audio performance" ?
also please post a pic of your rb audio and midi drivers.

best
oldmuso.

Hi justanoldmuso.

My point is, since it's the same computer with the same sound card and the same definition, why, and what is the cause and what is the different between BIAB 2020 and 2021, that it's working great, without any problem with one version and not with the other.

Let's at least not rule out the possibility, that there is something that has been changed in 2021.

Goldy.
i'm not disagreeing. just pointing out that other users are happily doing songs with bb21 now AND pg techs cant replicate the problem.
as your aware being a tech yourself; there are loads of reasons why a system or set of code might not be working as expected.
in my life ive seen the very best of techs miss something and be tearing their hair out why something works for one set of users but not another.

how bout this, cos its a process of elimination of causes.
please post 3 pics.
1. a pic of your bb 2020 audio and midi driver settings//prefs.
2. a pic of your bb 2021 audio and midi driver settings//prefs.
3. a pic of your rme control panel settings.

just trying to help.
best.
oldmuso

Hi justanoldmuso.

I was still doing songs with 2021 (After all it's my favorite Music software), I was just pointing out some strange behaviors in my computer.
after all, we are all community here for helping each other and make BIAB even better.

Now,could you help me and pointing out where can I upload pictures?
I would like to upload snapshots of my configuration.

Thanks.

My Sound Configuration.
(BIAB 2020).
Works great.

Goldy.
and now please post bb2021 settings//prefs for comparison.
please also post pics of your MIDI DRIVER settings//prefs
for both bb2020 and bb2021.
best
oldmuso

If I recall correctly, Goldy has said he cannot answer that and related questions because he has uninstalled BIAB 2021.

Goldy, is it possible that your BiaB2021 DL, USB, or HD is corrupted? Or possibly being corrupted by your Anti-virus? Have you tried DLing the BiaB exe file then installing it after you disable your Anti-virus?

Also is there anything running in the background as you use BiaB? I know this is a real long shot but maybe something running in the background does not affect 2020 but does 2021?

MarioD

The possibility is always there, but I doubt it, since there is no evidence for that in any other case or programs that I'm using (includ BIAB 2020).
Also i have tried running it in safe mode, just to see if there is any clash with other software or driver.

As soon as i can, I'll upgrade it again and inform here how it's going.

Please let us know how it goes Goldy, I'd like to get to the bottom of this.

Will do.
Drive me crazy too

BTW, was there any changing in BIAB about the way it handling "Plugins"?
I'm asking because the interface has changed.

Hi Simon.

Just Upgraided to 2021.

1. The issue with the Open processes came back (Every time I open BIAB song - another processes is open. when I close - the process stay open. closing BIAB - all processes stay open.

2. Playing a song (double click) - when it open, I hear king of "Knak" or "Bzz" (That's happens only if i open a song. while opening BIAB without a song it's OK)?

3. Push the play button - the song runing, but no sound at all.

4. Push the play button without a song - OK.

5. Some songs running fine some time, and some time don't (No sound).

6. My feeling is that opening a song take much longer than 2020.

7. I upgraded to 2021 - "run as administrator", and didn't touch any of the definition yet, so it should be like before.

Hope it helps.

What may be somewhat of a temporary solution for you Goldy is to use Pipelines tip (thank you Pipleine) and run biab 2020 from the same folder as biab 2021, what you do is copy the six bb exe's from biab 2020 to a folder on your desktop, Rename by adding 20 beofre the .exe, then copy to your biab 2021 folder, and create shortcuts for the 32 and 64 bit 2020 to your desktop.

Note you are not replacing any of the exe's in biab 2021 you are just adding 2020 exe's to that folder. See the screenshot below of how it appears in my bb folder.

It will run fine will see all the new realtracks, though you won't have the new features of say Utility tracks.

And you will still be able to launch biab 2021 fron that folder too, using biab 2021 shortcuts.

Otherwise hope you get this years biab 2021 problems sorted out.

On the Fireface Settings screen, all entries say ‘No Lock’. That doesn’t look right, although I have not worked with a Fireface interface. When I do not have a lock on Presonus or Focusrite units, I get no sound.

If you select SPDIF rather than Internal, do you get a lock?

Hi Matt.

Thanks for your answer.

Few points:
1. Right now I think best is to keep config exactly as it was in 2020, and at least let Simon have a look at it first.
2. If it has something to do with the sound card, why the same config works with 2020 (and other music softwares) and not with 2021.
3. Some time 2021 DO work. and the way I see it, If it was some thing to do with the sound card, it shouldn't work at all.

I concur you are using a very sensible troubleshooting method.

Just pointing out why it appears you would have no sound. What BIAB 2021 could be doing to affect that, I have no clue. But I think it warrants examining.

Goldy.
upthread you said this quote;
"
1. The issue with the Open processes came back (Every time I open BIAB song - another processes is open. when I close - the process stay open. closing BIAB - all processes stay open."

also you said ;
" I hear king of "Knak" or "Bzz"


WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY ANOTHER PROCESSES IS OPEN ??
and what do you mean by "Knak" or "Bzz ??
please go into more detail goldy. because i dont understand your comments.

do you mean win control panel processes ? please detail further.

another question. in bb21 when you get these problems are you in bb daw plug in mode ? OR regular bb mode ?? OR BOTH modes you get problems ??

IN ADDITION GOLDY.
you say other music software works fine with your config.
please post then with pics your driver settings for both
midi and audio drivers that are working well in your non pg software. ie not biab.
ie what other software ? cubase ? pro tools ? reaper ?
another software ? please post pics of your other softwares settings.

best
oldmuso

Hi Oldmuso.

1. The sounds "Knak' or "bazz" appear when I open a song, and for less than a second.
When I hear it, I know there might be problems with playing this song (not always).
2. About the process which I see in the "Task Manager" - see attached pict.
3. Not sure what do you mean, so I guess Normal mode.
4. I have already posted the midi and audio config which i took from 2020.(you can find it in this thread).
there was No problem with it an it was working great.
5. I work mainly with BIAB and Cubase.

Best regards,

Goldy

Re item 2:
You've got 5 copies of BBW64.exe running, not one? Doesn't seem quite right to me.

A: How do you start BiaB?
B: Do you double-click one or more song files (*.mgu, *.sgu)?
C: Any idea why there are 5 copies of BBW64.exe instigated?
D: Do you intend to run multiple versions of the program simultaneously?

Autoriser une seule instance de Biab ?

Yes, try changing you settings to have the item Unchecked, although I'm not sure if it is working again correctly.

Videotrack.
g'day mate nice idea re troubleshooting.
Goldy.
please open up cubase and take pics of your cubase midi and audio settings FROM CUBASE.
and post them in this thread. so comparisons can be made with biab settings. i need to look at your cubase settings to compare.
try a test of only running ONE INSTANCE of bb2021.

best
oldmuso

You may be onto something here. If multiple instances of BIAB run, and each one wants to use ASIO, how does ASIO react when it is normally assigned to one input at a time? Wouldn't it block the other instances resulting in no sound 'most of the time'?

Matt, my guess is yes, and probably with initial sounds like "Knak' or "bazz"

A: How do you start BiaB? - Both way - thru the software or/and double-click on the song.
B: Do you double-click one or more song files (*.mgu, *.sgu)? Yes
C: Any idea why there are 5 copies of BBW64.exe instigated? - no. BIAB is closed.
D: Do you intend to run multiple versions of the program simultaneously? If you mean 64 and 32 - no.

Thanks

Following along. Not much I can add other than - this is the root of the problem. Correct this and you should be good to go.

Hi.

It's Unchecked

Where can I find the boot log?

Not both ways, that would result in multiple copies of BIAB being opened.

Goldy.
are you aware of what a multi client sound device is ?

i'm not sure whether your fireface 400 "is" multi client.
*maybe simon can chip in on this aspect*
i thought possibly your Fireface was multi client from a cursory scan of the FF manual , BUT it might not be a current multi client capability. thus possible problems in
talking to different music apps/daws at the same time.

are you now good to go goldy ? running just one instance of biab at a time ?.

just to tick all the boxes goldy i would like to see your midi and audio driver preferences/settings in cubase please. btw etes vous francais ?? sorry my french is not too good.

best
oldmuso.

The Boot Log should be visible in Help, Utilities, Display Log Text File of Yellow/Green Messages

Note that this file is visible on my system even though I do NOT have that checkbox checked. I can see the boot time, normally around 5 seconds on my system, any time I like. I assume, though I have not tested it, that the Boot Log referred to here would be more extensive.

Try this.
1: Completely shut down and then reboot your computer (this will ensure that no legacy copies of BiaB are running).
2: Start 1 single application of BiaB from the desktop icon.
3: From the BiaB File drop-down menu, open one song and play it, does it give you any sound issues, or play perfectly?
4: Use the Task Manager to see how many copies of BiaB are listed. Please advise on this.

Personally, I am pretty confident that the practice of double clicking on file names while BIAB is already open will cause multiple BIAB openings. I just tested and confirmed. This is despite checking or not checking the box in preferences that supposedly enables this feature. Also, I am confident that multiple occurrences of BIAB will play havoc with audio drivers. So I predict that if Goldy stops this workflow things will go back to normal.

So for me the only question which remains is, assuming this practice was done in both BIAB 2020 and BIAB 2021, why did BIAB 2020 not suffer from this same behavior in which case Goldy would have seen this problem in the past. Best I recall the opening of multiple occurrences of BIAB in this manner has always been there.

Look forward to the resolution of this issue.

Dan

It hasn't always been there, but it does go back many years.

Yes, and I suspect that some of the BiaB instances showing in task manager were 'hung' applications because they could correctly access audio drivers etc and couldn't shutdown gracefully (or similar).

The Multiple-Instances setting had problems and this was reported in the beta testing (might have even been 2020 testing). IIRC, multiple instances could be launched even when this was unchecked. I'm not sure if it was resolved or not.

Wow - thanks to everybody!!!

oldmuso:
I have a feeling we are looking under the wrong tree.
For my personal opinion, it's not sound card issue.
If it would be sound card issue, it would be just the same with BB 2020 and other softwares.
Since BB 2020 works great, and BB 2021 don't, there has to be some changing in the software that caus this issue.
(And yes, it could be some kind of comparability issue with my old Fireface sound card).

Matt:
Thanks. Ill try to lool and share the log in with you guys.

VideoTrack:
I already tried it before.
no matter how I open a song. the tasks are building up (not always).

MusicStudent:
Agree. I'm working like this (double click songs) fore years, and no problem/
Also when I got back to 2020, al those issues disappears (again - something IS different between the two versions.


Again - I really thank you all and hope we will get to the bottom of this strange issue.

Goldy.
ok i'm out of ideas now to solve the issue.
(so this is my last comment in this thread.)
all i would suggest in closeing is you rent a alternative new asio sound device from your local music store for a few days and see if the problems with 2021 bb disappear.
(see the realband forum for a list of pg users asio sound devices that pg users have found work well.)
i wish you well and hope you get this resolved.

best
oldmuso

Thank man.

I really appreciate it
Since my fireface 400 is realy old (more than 10 years), I'm thinking of getting my self Focusrite Scarlett 4i4 G3.
Many good reviews.

See

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=656770&#Post656770

I've never found BIAB to be unstable but, However I do have a real Problem with Loading BIAB with a Finished saved song? First Time this has happened.
I cannot load the song into 'Real Band' from BIAB. It will not load the song and Real Band is defaulted to 90 bars of midi music the length of the song
I cannot seem to change it? What can I do? I Have recorded so many songs and this is the first problem that I have an issue with?
Maybe I've been infected with some virus?

If you disconnect the Fireface and only use your internal sound, do the processes stay open? You'll probably have to switch driver type to WAS or MME for that.

How about if you open BIAB without opening a song, then open a song from File > Open?




The boot log is a different file than the one you're referencing. The boot log is a file named bootuplog.txt, and when you select the option to have BB create a bootlog it'll automatically open the log file for you when you run BB.



Dan, are you running from external or internal, or split install? For me, when I double click on a sgu/mgu in Explorer it'll open BIAB the first time, but subsequently it'll open in the same bbw64 process. I personally just opened half a dozen files sequentially by double clicking them in Explorer, and there is still only one process related to BIAB - my thought is that on your computer the files are associated with a different bbw executable than the one you're running initially, or perhaps mgu and sgu are associated to different exe's.

Try this:

Open Band-in-a-Box by right clicking on your program shortcut and selecting "run as administrator".

Go to File - File Utilities - Remove File Associations.

Close and re-open Band-in-a-Box (not as administrator).
Go to File - File Utilities - Associate File Types.
Minimize (don't close) Band-in-a-Box, double-click on a song file in Explorer. See if it opens a secondary process.

Wow, did not expect that. Ok, first let me confirm for you that every time I double click on a BIAB file it opens a new unique version of the program. In the image below I illustrate this with three files. This has always been the case for me (best I know). Regarding why this happens will take a little time. I will look close at what you are suggesting.

Performed exactly as instructed. Result was same as before, double clicking continues to open an new occurrence of BIAB. By the way, I have the most recent versions of everything.

OK I see the source of the confusion. I removed the check from "Allow Multiple Instances..." in preferences. Now I get only one occurrence of BIAB and each time I double click, a new file replaces the prior one in the same single occurrence of BIAB. No more multiple program occurrences.

This was apparently a problem that I didn't know I had since I never use this workflow for opening files. It appears that his options is set by default in 2021. Not the way I would want it. Is it possible that BIAB 2020 did not have it set as the default? This would explain the OPs differences between 2020 and 2021.

Goldy, can you let us know how this is set in your 2020 and your 2021?

I have never played with this option in any of the prior versions. For me, in version 2021 it is unchecked - which means that is the default value initialised by the installation of 2021.


Kevin

Thanks Kevin, I also confirmed via a "return to factory settings". This box is indeed unchecked by default in BIAB 2021. I must have messed with it at some time in history.