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All. here is a comprehensive list by sweetwater of usb audio mixers with lots of inputs. it looks to me like the number of entrants is growing from last time i looked. i know the soundcraft and allen/heath are well regarded. the new mackie pro fx v3 line also looks interesting with compression on some input channels unlike some other mixers but i think i'm correct in saying the new mackies will only record to 2 traks at a time into the daw. this list is just an alternative to the typical usb devices we all buy. https://www.sweetwater.com/c264--USB_Analog_Mixersfor more info consult manufacturers web sites and also lots of reviews on you tube. the above list might be of interest for users/small groups of musos needing lots of inputs. best oldmuso
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That list should have a caveat- the Yamaha MG10XU 10-channel Mixer with USB and FX has an uninstallable USB driver!
Word of caution.
Regards,
Bob
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Two other words of warning - most of that list will only record or play back 2 channels at a time (and I can personally verify the ProFXv3 line does so). A cheap 8-channel mixer with USB interface will likely not actually let you record 8 channels - it'll let you record 2 channels from the stereo mix. Some exceptions of course, but the general rule is to do your homework, and you'll likely get only what you pay for.
Second, many of the cheap mixers do not have a proper ASIO driver - particularly the Behringer ones use ASIO4All as their "official" driver, which is not actually true ASIO. These mixers tend not to work well in BIAB.
I work here
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Your list and criteria are meaningless as Simon correctly points out. Multi-channel audio mixers that output to only 2 channels are no better than 2 channel desktop boxes.
There are 4 and 8 channel boxes that don’t cost an arm and a leg, however. I use one, the M-Audio AIR 192|14. 8 in / 8 out over USB plus 2 headphone amps. It is not a mixer, however. Although the $treet is now $329, you can still find the old price of $299 if you shop around. There are others made by Focusrite, Presonus and others — none of them let you mix as you can an analog. The MOTU M4 is 4x4 but its other pair of inputs are +16dB Line — not nearly enough gain for my keyboards without a DI so I sold it. Two of the inputs on the AIR 192|14 are DIs—four are mic pres on Combi-jacks and the other two are line inputs. They’re all using the same DAC/MicPre chip family but how it’s implemented makes a difference—especially with Windows. The 8x8+2 ‘phone amp version costs $6.73 each @ 1000 minimum.
If you want multiple Ins/Out channels that you can mix, they’re readily available but not under $500. Highly flexible but there’s a bit of a learning curve. The MOTU 828es runs $995 and you can spend $6K for certain Lynx units . I have a nice unit that I never use anymore once I bought the 192|14.
I own and really like the Mackie PROFxv3 but the 6 channel version is fine only for the person working by him/herself playing one instrument at a time. I also own the 10 & 12 channel versions for recording rehearsals but don’t use them as recording interfaces otherwise. Unfortunately, when I needed to record my wife’s piano onto a stereo track with my voice on another track simultaneously, I hit the 2-track wall and there’s no workaround.
All the inexpensive interfaces work with Core Audio on a Mac though some offer drivers that add additional functionality.
Windows, OTOH is a clown car when it comes to drivers. Get over it and do your homework. As Simon points out, read carefully to make certain that what you’re looking at will work. Some have issues with AMD and very few work over anything other than Intel and AMD. Cruise the user groups, email pre-sales, do the research it takes so that you know that what you’re buying actually does the job. I like manufacturers that offer telephone support.
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Mike.
jeesh. its just a list i thought some people might find interesting put together by sweetwater!
i dont endorse any product. people need to do their own testing with their own recording rig/set up.
in fact if you read my posts on pg i often suggest "renting" any new product; particularly any involving interfaceing with a computer.
and testing for a month before buying.
as we all know just because a driver works well on one users computer it might not work well on another persons computer.
i DID also mention the 2x2 limitation on lots of mixers.
i can see all sorts of applications for more inputs than a traditional sound device provides with a limited number of inputs.
for example on that list are mixers with up to 32 inputs.
possibly a user might be interested in useing 16 of those inputs as a drum mic mixer outputting to stereo into 2 line inputs of a usb sound device with max 8 line inputs. or mixing a bunch of synths/modules etc etc.
so i certainly dont think the list is meaningless.
there are lots of sub mixing and other possible applications. i certainly wasnt aware of some of the mixers on sweetwaters list; and thought other pg users might find it interesting if they had a sub mixing need
and a small budget.
not all of us can afford multi thousand dollar high end solutions.
and frankly as ive had problems in the past spending large on big ticket items only to find in short order sometimes my purchases became obsolete ; frankly i'm kinda leery.
really mike it comes down to "what does a user need to get from A to B".
some people like me with a small budget buy a used camry with a warranty and 50 k on the clock and save 15k probably. other people buy a lovely new lexus.
(nice but outta my budget range. lol.)
best
oldmuso
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 05/25/21 08:39 AM.
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Mike.
ADDENDUM.
re PC "clown car".
i simply cant agree with you on this topic.
years ago yes. but my refurb win 10 pc now (that never sees the net) i simply switch on each day and it just works with no crashes etc.
day after day. never had a bsod in years and years.
dont get me wrong. I'm no MS apologist. i'm just being fair.
if it was a clown car why do i see so many big studios posting on gearspace.com (previously gearslutz.com) that they are getting huge performance/trak/plug in counts. and YES includeing particularly AMD RYZENS. there are goodness knows how many threads on RYZENS alone.
i also see threads of people moving back to pc from mac !
look at these pg pc forums right now.
DO YOU NOTICE THE NUMBER OF PC USERS THAT HAVE SUCCESSFULL
sound device installs makeing such comments as "works with all my music software". includeing pg Software.
i dont want to get into a MAC/PC debate. been done many zillions of times on the net mike.
both platforms have plusses and minuses imho.
(just like dfifferent cars lol.)
i simply note if you look at worldwide computer based recording studios (from my own puny surveys of GS and other recording sites lol.) the VERY TOP TIER BIG BOY STUDIOS OFTEN USE VERY HIGH PERFORMANCE CUSTOM BUILT PC's built by custom builders like adk pro audio, slientpc.com, scan.co.uk, purrfect audio and many other custom builders of pc'// rigs i cant afford. to be fair a lot of the big boys also use macs.
listen gimme a threadripper type 5ghz mac for 600 buckies
and i'll be all over it lol. the M1 IS IMPRESSIVE.
BUT i'm waiting for the M2 to drop.
wishing you only the best.
i-love-a-good-friendly-debate-oldmuso
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 05/25/21 12:00 PM.
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Just helping out here with some overlooked benefits for USB Analog Mixers to DAW. Correctly purposed, they are an economical and practical solution for many live and recording situations.
<< Your list and criteria are meaningless as Simon correctly points out. Multi-channel audio mixers that output to only 2 channels are no better than 2 channel desktop boxes. >>
That's not correct because a multi-channel audio mixer's value is determined by the mixer's intended end use, not the channel count. This is true for every analog or digital mixer because that is the ultimate and main design feature of a mixer.
<< If you want multiple Ins/Out channels that you can mix, they’re readily available but not under $500. >>
In the list from Sweetwater above, 57 of the 81 mixers list for less than $500.
<< Highly flexible but there’s a bit of a learning curve. >>
Even for a novice, operating an analog mixer has only a tiny bit of a learning curve.
<< I own and really like the Mackie PROFxv3 but the 6 channel version is fine only for the person working by him/herself playing one instrument at a time. I also own the 10 & 12 channel versions for recording rehearsals but don’t use them as recording interfaces otherwise. Unfortunately, when I needed to record my wife’s piano onto a stereo track with my voice on another track simultaneously, I hit the 2-track wall and there’s no workaround. >>
Makes sense. You needed three individual tracks but only had a 2 track machine. Change your need from 3 individual tracks to a 3 track mix and every analog/USB mixer you own is up to the task. Two channel USB Mixers are the wrong tool for the job.
Here's a short list of things reflecting the desired outcome and intended end use of these mixers make them better than 2 channel desktop boxes.
. Mix and Monitor more than two inputs simultaneously.
. Route multiple tracks to multiple analog and digital outputs.
. Send and return multiple signals to external hardware effects that is not effected by and has no effect on the computer CPU.
. Can provide 48v phantom power to more than two inputs simultaneously.
. Some have selectible routing of the USB output to the PC
. Some have selectible routing of the USB PC return to the Mixer.
. Most come with digital Fx's engines, some even have two.
. Will have aux/mon or group outputs
. Multiple aux outs normally are pre/post selectible.
. Many have channel insert points.
. Many Mixers will have mute/solo, assignable group buttons.
. Many Mixers will have both AFL and PFL buttons with metering.
. Some Mixers will have Stereo recording and playback using SD Card recording.
. Most Mixers have Mic and line inputs whereas some desktop audio interfaces have mic/instrument with no line level input.
. Most Mixers will have at least one instrument Hi-Z DI input. Many have more than one.
. Mixers will have an external low cut filter on each channel.
. Some Mixers will have boutique pre-amps.
. Some Mixers will have dedicated line level inputs and jacks to accept line level output devices such as CD Players, MP3 players, IOS/Android devices.
. It's easy to connect multiple analog Mixers to increase input channels and routing options.
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Charlie.
thats a really nice set of application examples for those mixers listed by sweetwater. kudos to you.
it brought to mind an application for a small classical music group. for example one of those mixers with 4 sub groups feeding 4 line inputs on a sound device ; thus recording 4 daw traks at a time.
(assuming the user has a multi input sound device 4x4 or above.
eg audient/maudio/focusrite or other vendors etc etc.)
.violins>>sub group 1 >> sound device input 1 >> daw trak 1.
.cellos >>sub group 2 >> sound device input 2 >> daw trak 2.
.guitars>>sub group 3 >> sound device input 3 >> daw trak 3.
.vocals >>sub group 4 >> sound device input 4 >> daw trak 4.
i'm sure if george martin only had one of those sweetwater mixers/a multi input sound device/a few mics/and a daw running on pc; he would still produce great songs.lol.
considering the really tight trak limitations of the early multitrack tape machines.
i'm sure george would have been happy indeed.
early up to 3 trak mtr's must have driven the engineers crazy at times. so they bounced useing 2 mtr's.
charlie i was just on macworld today and reading up on the new macs.
admittedly very nice but apparently some users are concerned about the port limitations.
which probably explains why some top tier studios like certain pc's cos of loads of ports/expandability.
one reason i like refurb hp z workstations is they are under 600 buks with xeons and loaded up with a load of ports and internal exapansion possibilities.
as i said each platform has plusses and minuses.
best to you charlie.
i-like-lots-of-ports-oldmuso
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 05/26/21 08:42 AM.
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<< Charlie.
thats a really nice set of application examples for those mixers listed by sweetwater. kudos to you.
it brought to mind an application for a small classical music group. for example one of those mixers with 4 sub groups feeding 4 line inputs on a sound device ; thus recording 4 daw traks at a time.
(assuming the user has a multi input sound device 4x4 or above. >>
Thanks for commenting on my examples. Yes, you give a good example of an application for these small format mixers. What you detailed will work quite well and in the case of the USB interface mixers that are 2x2, simply feed mixer audio output to an audio interface connected to a PC/Mac. The same outcome can be accomplished with any small format analog mixer and if someone already has a digital audio interface, use it in conjunction with an analog mixer that has multiple aux sends and groups. It's quite economical to get 8 audio outs in a mixture of mono and stereo configuration (for instance, 2 mono tracks and two stereo tracks using a combination of groups and aux sends.)
An analog into an audio interface example that lists for $290, the Yamaha MG12 12-channel Analog Mixer has two aux sends that can be configured as 2 mono tracks (that will accommodate a stereo send eg: L+R keyboard outputs into two channel) and it also has two Group outs that can be configured as 2 mono tracks or a single stereo out. Their MG16 with 4 aux sends and 4 groups is only $460.
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