PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic Rumors about a new version of Windows

There is speculation of Windows 11 on June 24. Are I can think of is another round of problems for sound cards. I hope I’m wrong.

Matt, my sources say Windows 11 is fake news. But what do they know.

Dan, I thought so too until something I saw today. But what do I know?

If this is true, I have to take my CNC computer off the internet, which I should do in any event. I had less problems with the mill when I was running XP.

I had it running original on Linux. Then I changed to Mach3 software for windows.

Microsoft is becoming so intrusive I really dislike Windows.

There is only two CNC programs for hobbyist. Mach3/Mach4 at $200 or LinuxCNC for free.

The Linux interface has got so good I am seriously thinking of returning to Linux for the Mill.

I am beginning to think I may be better off with both Linux computers and Windows computers.

I am truly sick of windows updates.

Billy

This from Tom’s Hardware Guide The Cliff Notes are that most likely there will be an announcement of a major upgrade/overhaul of the Windows operating system but don’t expect an actual release for about another year.

Well if there is and they call it windows 11 (probably to distinguish it from the mostly free windows 10) I would guess it will go back to a paid for version, as Microsoft have probably lost a lot of dollars with the free windows 10

Keep in mind that the somewhat 'free' Windows version 10 was only for them to attempt to redeem themselves from the atrocious problems with issues associated with Windows 7 and 8, all released after an effectively and robust operating system of Windows XP.

Yes, it's inevitable that they'll be looking to make up for lost time (lost $).

Well I always considered windows 7 a robust OS, windows 8 less so, I do have 10 and like it ok, using classic shell start menu though, as I don't like the way Microsoft seem to want to hide the control panel or other settings, or make them hard to find.

Well... they pooped in their diaper heavily when Vista and Windows 8 came out, with enormous backlash from users...and they were on the top of the game then, so they could have afforded their cute "innovations". I doubt they want to repeat same mistakes now, with tight market like we have. Even if (when) the "next big thing" comes out, I am sure they will have a strong backward compatibility and "give me my damn desktop back" option.

I agree. I'll bet that after a very short period of time Win 10 will no longer supported.

I agree. I also hate the way Microsoft wants to set up my computer their way. Many times I have had to reset a number of my settings after one of their updates.

I think with other OS's being free, MS had to join the crowd, and they make up the difference with tracking and advertising revenue.

It's a guess, based on my intuition, not any research of facts.

Insights and incites by Notes

I'm still running XP Pro 32 bit on my DAW.... still fairly solid and most of the problems I have are self inflicted.

I think the Navy still is running a few xp machines. They pay Microsoft millions for support of xp. The only reason I moved from xp to 7 was the 64 bit issue.

Billy

My bank is running XP on their ATM. Yes, I live in a very small town, with a small bank. I don't keep much money there...

I worked a lot with those machines when I did a contract for a bank here. Be somewhat aware that EMBEDDED XP was not PROUCTION XP. The embedded version in ATMs and POS (Point of Sale! Shame on you for what you thought!) machines was as close to bulletproof as anything I ever saw in all my years in IT.

If there is an 11 I will load it onto ONE laptop and watch it before I put it on my real computers.

I agree with Mario that Micro$oft needs to STOP changing my settings to support THEIR products. Every time they update Edge it makes it my default browser. I have used Edge once just to see if it loaded cleanly, because with Edge you get Bing, and I prefer DuckDuckGoose... LOL! And they change the audio to Windows Audio. Et cetera...

However, I have never been a "it does what I need guy" and lived with 20 year old stuff. If I thought that I would be with wife 1.0 with no updates... Like my OS, I upgraded often.

LOL... It's probably safer on XP than Windows 10 in any event.

Billy

My brother in law wrote assembler etc for the ATM machines. Built the communications hardware - x25 modems (I think). One time he took me in to see the anz network. Now he's a farmer and grows kiwi fruit with machines all over the place monitoring for frosts.

I still have one XP computer that I use to run the 8.3 bug free version of Master Tracks Pro.

On stage I have an XP computer that I bought in 2002 that just won't die (ThinkPad) and another Win7 ThinkPad computer. I had to replace my other 2002 when I dropped it, broke the hinge (it still works) and the cost of repair was less than the new computer (the parts were no longer in production).

The XP and Win7 computers never-ever go on-line. There is no need for that considering the purposes I'm using them for.

Insights and incites by Notes

Everything official I've read from Microsoft says that "Windows 10 is the last version of Windows" and that basically future Windows versions will just be upgrades to 10. I suppose we'll have to see what they say about that on the 24th.

I know Reddit is not always a reliable source of information, but there are some quotes from Microsoft execs in here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/windows/comments/k76r5e/windows_11_release_date/

>I still have one XP computer that I use to run the 8.3 bug free version of Master Tracks Pro.


Bob,
Awesome! Nice to hear that’s still running well.

+++This+++ is a CNET article on the Windows 11 speculation. It does reference some of the other postings in this thread, but in the end that could be an echo chamber effect. But it does seem like there will be a major update coming, whether it is called Windows 11 or not.

Microsoft's tool to check if your PC is compatible with the requirements for Windows 11 is offline.

If you want to check yours, there is an open-source tool I found, here: https://github.com/rcmaehl/WhyNotWin11 Scroll down to download the latest release, then unzip it.

Both my 2014-era PCs failed miserably.

I tried this one myself. My computer has more red or yellow boxes than green...

Surely they will have to relax the hardware requirements for windows 11, or else there will be a slow take up, as 10 support doesn't end until 2025, I will probably need a new pc before that.

Here is my report. An i5 is not sufficient for Windows 11?

Don't feel bad Eddie. My i7 isn't compatible either!

I ran the utility on both my new HP laptop and my homebuilt desktop (which I've upgraded multiple times over a decade).

My laptop passed in all categories. The desktop failed on a few items, notably the TPM. It has an ASUS motherboard, but it's dated 2012. On the ASUS website, I found the following: "TPM 2.0 was introduced back in 2015, and all ASUS motherboards feature version 2.0."

So my 2012 P8H77-V LE motherboard isn't supported. My I7 CPU isn't listed as compatible and a few other items are flagged as red.

But below is my laptop result:

4-series Intel is not compatible? I was afraid of that. Looks like my very-much-not-cheap 6-core 4930K machine is garbage now...

I'm sure someone will figure out a workaround for a lot of these issues. Perhaps the TPM2.0 could be bypassed in software...

I had a lot of RED the first time around and now I'm mostly GREEN due to one particular topic that causes all the RED. This was a rabbit hole that took a while to chase down......

I had RED items with Boot Method, Disk Partition Type, & Secure Boot.

So you have to convert your OS disk, typically C:\ from MBR (Master Boot Record) to GPT (GUID Partition Table). When that's done you can switch your BIOS from Legacy to UEFI. Once that's done, you can turn on Secure Boot in your BIOS.

If your computer is too old, BIOS may not even have an option for UEFI. I had the option but it didn't work at first because the OS disk wasn't converted.

Convert MBR to GPT with MBR2GPT Tool in Windows 10 V1703 or Later

Once I hit that link I followed the "How to convert MBR to GPT with MBR2GPT?" part of the page for running in Windows 10. One thing of note when running the command, your C:\ OS drive may not be zero unless it's your only drive. Since I have extra drives on my main PC, my OS drive was actually Disk2 per Disk Management. So I put a 2 in the command where "N" was and it ran fine.

From there, I just had to reboot the PC and press F2 to enter BIOS. I switched from Legacy to UEFI and then turned on Secure Boot and now I have the result below:

Oh My
Loads of nibble and bits, I like it. What Fun !

but I can hear no music here
just a chant of pain & suffering, maybe the Blues!

this topic is way Out There
we were warned it is in the correct forum

This is all about hardware security:

https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/25/22550376/microsoft-windows-11-tpm-chips-requirement-security

I'm not going on a rant about security issues but I'll say that in my tax business per a recent federal law and IRS regs I now have to have a security plan in place, have several levels of online protection and be able to prove it if one of my clients suffers an identity theft issue traceable back to me.

I know many here poo poo all this and that's great, I'm not preaching at anybody, I'll just say online security is getting pretty damn serious and it's really impacting business at many levels from government access to booking a flight.

TPM shouldn't be a surprise to any of you who know more about PC's and software than I do. They've been talking about hardware security and encryption at the CPU level for years now. If some don't care I totally agree, MS will almost certainly extend support for Win 10 beyond 2025 so you're good for many years. However, while I won't be in the very first group to update to 11, I'll probably be right behind them, it is a business expense which helps. Of course my current system being a 7 year old i7 failed, I've had it for 5 years about time to retire it anyway.

Bob

Thanks for the info Bob.....

Bob, is your type of business covered under some arm of the Sarbanes-Oxley Act? I have always wanted tp punch both of those guys in the face.

I worked a contract for a bank. When computers were retired, the data was moved, the hard drives were wiped with a 3 pass process that wrote 0s on every sector of the hard drive, AND we had to remove them and using a drill press, drill three 1/2" holes through the platters. Have you ever tried to drill through a hard drive platter?

One time in a meeting the powers that be were discussing the process of moving retired PCs from the main business office of the bank to the data center when that process was performed. They were going back and forth about security during transit, and just when the decided that everything was secure, your truly tapped his pen on the table and asked "How well do you know these drivers from the company you hired to moved the PCs? Is it outside the realm of possibility that IF they wanted to do so, they could drive that truck to a garage where 100 guys are waiting with tools and junk hard drives and swapping out the hard drives from the bank's computers. It is highly unlikely, but possible. And for the last 90 minutes you have all been going on and on about hypotheticals. Well, there's my hypothetical."

Crickets.

After they hemmed and hawed for about 3 minutes I stood up, smiled, and said "I think my work here is done." and left the meeting. The same day they changed the process so a bank employee would have to be the one driving the truck. As I whispered to my co-worker "How do they know they can trust HIM? Albert DeSalvo (The Boston Strangler) told a woman he was a detective before he molested and killed her." And he looked at me and said "Oh just shut up, will ya?"

No, it comes from the Federal Trade Commission and the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act

Basically I'm under the same rules as Amazon, Facebook or any other company that handles customers personal data.

Bob

This is one of my favorite tech sites for when I really want to feel stupid. Just watching this makes me want to go throw up in the corner but they seem to be extremely competent with this stuff. I know some of you guys will eat this up so here it is:

How to install Win 11 on basically anything:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NivpAiuh-s0

Interesting that they do keep saying all this could change if MS wants to lock all these hacks out.

Bob

New article out that may have people less stressed.....

Following complaints, Microsoft will make Windows 11 compatible with more PC chips

It's good that they're going back one more generation of CPU, though that won't help people who have machines older than a 7th gen Intel Core. That said, if you're running something much older than that, it's time to upgrade your computer.

This change basically allows computers from the past 5 years to run Windows 11. For comparison, the latest macOS supports computers from the last 8 years, which goes back to a 4th gen Intel. As Apple has complete control over what components will run on their OS, they can get away with supporting older machines as they know exactly what's in them. Microsoft, on the other hand, has to rely on hundreds if not thousands of companies to write updated drivers to be able to offer support for older hardware. I honestly think it's fairly generous that they support up to 5 years back, as trying to match Apple's 8 years would mean they'd have to try and support every machine that ever shipped with Windows 8, and some that shipped with Windows 7.

My i7 is from 2014 and is a 40xx. It’s fine. This is silly I can’t upgrade.

Friends and family count on me, a former comp. sci. prof, to stay current. It doesn’t help Microsoft that someone like me cannot upgrade.

Sure you CAN upgrade, Matt. It's just going to cost you. And therein lies the complaint I have had against Micro$oft and Apple. They hold us hostage with their upgrades that require hardware replacement. There comes a point where they create yet another new OS that your hardware can't run. I had an original iPad that couldn't run the OS needed to run the cooler new apps. I hate them for this business model of forced obsolescence.

You think you got it bad. Go to the songwriter forum and see what my wife has been costing me...lol

Both of you could chip in and help me write the song with all that new gear yall been buying...lol

Billy

Well, Billy, if we have been BUYING gear, we have no money, so....

JUST recently, I bought a Korg Krome for $1000, a mixer for $200, the St Vincent guitar for $500, a new to me used Shure IEM transmitter and receiver for $200, and new custom molded IEMs from Wavs Sound for $180. We only have a total of 5 gigs, one of which is a short opening act 1 set gig, so I won't even come close to break-even for the year. If we score a good New Year's Eve gig I might come close, but even then, 6 gigs just to break even...?

Huh, I didn't think he meant chip in with $$, but more with effort (using your new gear)
Help him write the song .. or I could be wrong, which would make it my fault as usual

Actually, I think this should be done on Zoom. We should invite anyone who has an interest in BIAB. Someone like Matt should put it together and someone like David should do the mixing and get Bud to master the thing. Have anyone who has better ideas for the lyrics jump in.

The only thing left is to find a singer, a humdinger. I can take care of that.

It would be fun to see something go together from start to finish done by people who really know BIAB.

Billy

He'd be better off asking for money....

I fully agree that a 4-series i7 is powerful enough to run Windows 11 (I own one too, a slightly more esoteric 4930K on the LGA2011 platform), but this hardware predates even Windows 10. People have been able to get Windows 11 running on older hardware like this, but the problem is going to be with the hardware drivers - the motherboard manufacturers probably will not write a bunch of new drivers to support our 4th-gen hardware in Windows 11, since they're not going to profit from doing that. People even with "supported" 7th or 8th-gen chips might not even get full driver support for some of their hardware, though I'm primarily looking at the pre-built manufacturers like Dell/HP/etc.

As usual, it'll probably be possible to get some older Win10 drivers working in Win11 (as I've done already with my Win11 machine), but we should all know that this could be a mixed bag for success or stability. Basically what I'm saying is that it's not necessarily Microsoft's fault that older hardware may not work, since they rely on the motherboard manufacturers for drivers, who then rely on the chipset/lan/sound/video/etc chip manufacturers for drivers...




That's just how it goes with technology. At some point the OS makers need to remove functions that are holding back the OS from greater improvements. Can you imagine how many problems there might be if Windows 10 still supported Pentium III or original Athlon chips?

Apple does this a lot, we all know that, but this stops the OS from becoming as bloated as it would be if it supported older machines. Microsoft is doing this with the TPM chip in an attempt to increase security in Win11. Windows 10 gave us a lot of free lunch, considering it can run (poorly) on computers released 10 years before the OS itself, but at some point the free lunch has to end.


I'm not trying to be an apologist for either Microsoft or Apple; I'm in the same boat as many of you guys. My LGA2011 machine doesn't officially support Windows 11 despite being able to handle 12-core CPU's and 64gb of RAM, nor does my 2009 Mac support Catalina, Big Sur, or the upcoming Monterey despite also being able to handle 12-cores and 128gb of ram.

he he ! to quote school of rock (that film is so entertaining with jack black) stick it to the man..
support the PI...lol.
i would love to see the pi turn the industry on its head
with a 5 ghz processor.
om

I can wait to see how this sorts itself out. No doubt there will be further changes to policy.

E-waste creator.

Hmmmm, maybe closer to the mark than we would all like. Hundreds of millions of computers dumped at the recycle centers

Possibly hundreds of millions of cheap computers and parts flogged on craigslist for cheap - I know I'd like that part!

GA-B75M-D3H Motherboard $25
*Note only works with Win 10 or earlier.

Yes that will come in handy until October 14, 2025 then just bury it in the back garden.

We as a society need to figure out new ways to reuse or recycle old tech like this.

Funny enough, I had the idea while writing this that I could stack a bunch of motherboards and built a guitar out of them. Hmmmmm....

We especially need to do better retrieving rare earth materials from surplus electronics. Since most of the supply is in China, we are heading into a problem.

That guy really knows how to work clear acrylic. The pc parts are just window dressing. Plus he stripped a real Fender for the guitar parts.

My brother recently gave me two desktops. Problem is no updated drivers since Windows VISTA in one and the other machine is an unknown. Trying to decided:

Find a VISTA install disc
Install Linux and hope for drivers (I do talk Linux.)
Gut the machines for their hard drives and memory

Obviously no chance of Windows 10 working.

And who knows about the unknown machine. No markings at all.

Probably great machines in their prime but not really worth much now.

...Deb

I wouldn't write them off yet, main desktop will be 12 years old next february, flies along in windows 10 with an SSD and some extra memory.

If you download SiSoft Sandra it will identify everything on the mystery computer.

Thank you!

...Deb

So, news is that Windows 11 will start rolling out October 5th. Sort of in waves like they did Windows 10. I am sure you can do a search and find out all you wish to know. They have also apparently reduced some of the requirements so more people will be able to run it and it will be FREE. Not all features will come out at once. The main one I read was native ability to run Android apps will not be ready as of then or at least not released in the first release.

Yes.


Ok now THAT is sick.


Just about anything that can run Vista can also run Windows 7 - most of the Vista drivers will work fine. It's a bit of trial and error (trial and terror?) but most of the time it's worked for me.


With a bit of perseverance and Google-fu, you might end up finding Windows 10 drivers for everything.


Yep, Microsoft tends to take things extra carefully and does a staggered rollout, just so that every computer on the planet doesn't die at the same time. We do the same thing with our BIAB updates, although chances of catastrophic failure are much lower.

I'm personally looking forward to the Android feature - to be honest though, mostly for certain video games...

Yes.


Ok now THAT is sick. I agree with Jim that it's basically an acrylic guitar with computer part adornments, but it still looks rad and I want it. Maybe I'll do my own...


Probably cheaper to do that than to purchase all the Fender parts separately. Of course, if you were to use non-Fender parts...


Just about anything that can run Vista can also run Windows 7 - most of the Vista drivers will work fine. It's a bit of trial and error (trial and terror?) but most of the time it's worked for me.


With a bit of perseverance and Google-fu, you might end up finding Windows 10 drivers for everything.


Yep, Microsoft tends to take things extra carefully and does a staggered rollout, just so that every computer on the planet doesn't die at the same time. We do the same thing with our BIAB updates, although chances of catastrophic failure are much lower.

I'm personally looking forward to the Android feature - to be honest though, mostly for certain video games...