Hello Folks, It's been YONKS since I posted one of my own ditties. Playing bass with Spirit Level kept me busy and moving to 100km to another state certainly kept me busy. Truth be told I posted an early version of this song around October of last year. I spent the next five months waiting for a chap who wanted to do the solo but that didn't eventuate. Another chap, Bob Harris, offered to fill in at late notice so is on this version.
I need your ears for this one. There's a little guitar figure I use every few bars of the verse that I'm unsure of. Is it a useful addition or an atonal distraction? Vocals are me, sadly, and I've tried to emphasize the minor chord sections by adding a raised seventh to one of the bvox... does that work? Finally, any other mix/production/tracking suggestions would be appreciated and attempted.
BIAB drums & organ in this one...Bob Harris does the guitar solo and I'm to blame for the rest.
Another update based on suggestions to have the guitar figure cut through a little better. I've also experimented with the "melody" a bit... In There Somewhere Iteration THREE
Lyrics: IN THERE SOMEWHERE
Reason with the logic Rhyming riddles for a song But the words don’t come together Something definitely went wrong The smiling clown went away for good To the circus, city, sewer He was running out of lives & his mask was so much truer He was running out of life & the options are fewer
There is no rhyme or reason For feeling like you do No, no definite rhyme or reason But the focus is on you. So come my bleeding jester Entertain the gawking crowd No definite rhyme or reason Just the genes you’ve been endowed
The man was in there somewhere Beneath his rhyme there was no reason His façade would someday crumble His humour his treason & they laughed at your insanity No prying eyes to look inside But their laughter was inanely aimed At the mask in which you hide But their laughter was inane again, As they line up to take a side
There is no rhyme or reason For feeling like you do No, no definite rhyme or reason But the focus is on you. So come my bleeding jester Entertain the gawking crowd No definite rhyme or reason Just the voices getting loud
There is no rhyme or reason For feeling like you do No, no definite rhyme or reason But the focus is on you. So come my bleeding jester Entertain the gawking crowd No definite rhyme or reason Just the voices getting loud.
Last edited by rayc; 06/06/2101:01 AM.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
So come my bleeding jester Entertain the gawking crowd
I do like that line !
Ray, that's a good rocker with great lyrics. I think that even without knowing who had written that song I would have guessed that it was you from the chord progressions they're typical for you (as far as IÄm concerned).
I tried to identify that li'l 'guitar figure' you mentioned, but I simply couldn't hear it - must be covered by my tinnitus, I guess.
I think I heard the guitar figure and I liked it. Your vocals are good, maybe could be a tad louder. Guitar solo was very good though brief. Altogether, an enjoyable track. Lyrics are signature yours, edgy stuff. Good work!
Windows 10, Intel Core I5 10400, 16 gig ram, Scarlett 6i6, Komplete keyboard, Sony Acid Music Studio 11, BIAB 2020 UltraPlus Pak
Yes, Rayc. My vote is to keep the guitar bit. In some way it anchors the song with familiarity, if that makes sense. I had a harder time picking out the harmony 7th. Yes, there it goes (on my 2nd spin); it, too is a keeper. Keep in mind, man, I have a hard time critiquing your work because I've learned so much from you. Sadly, I really like your vocal. hehe And, man, you guys in Spirit Level are really cooking up some good sounds.
Always a search in the continuation of original musical chords. Your lyrics and your voice are pleasant. I enjoyed the guitar solo which could have been introduced several times. Well done.
Ray, Powerful stuff! Very atypical progression & structure. Cool set of lyrics! Tried to tune ears, "looking" for the guitar you mentioned. I do not hear it, or if I do, it is not annoying and at the right place(s) Thank you for sharing.
Misha.
P.S. FJ motioned BGV... I think he made a very good point.
Hi Ray, I think that even without knowing who had written that song I would have guessed that it was you from the chord progressions they're typical for you (as far as IÄm concerned). Stefan
Thanks Stefan, I hope typical doesn't become predictable too soon.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
I think I heard the guitar figure and I liked it. Your vocals are good, maybe could be a tad louder. Guitar solo was very good though brief. Altogether, an enjoyable track. Lyrics are signature yours, edgy stuff. Good work!
Thanks TuneMonger, I've upped the vocals a little in the update in the OP.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Yes, Rayc. My vote is to keep the guitar bit. In some way it anchors the song with familiarity, if that makes sense. I had a harder time picking out the harmony 7th. Yes, there it goes (on my 2nd spin); it, too is a keeper. Keep in mind, man, I have a hard time critiquing your work because I've learned so much from you. Sadly, I really like your vocal. hehe And, man, you guys in Spirit Level are really cooking up some good sounds.
Thanks BabuMusic, I was toying around with just adding the flat 3rd when my wife suggested the raised 7th so I gave it a burl. Subtle but if it increases the minorness then I'm happy. The guitar figure was roundly canned by a listener elsewhere - hence my desire to know if there was a consensus. Spirit Level has a new one coming early next week...keep an eye out for a post from ScottC.
Last edited by rayc; 06/05/2112:27 AM.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Hi Rayc, I enjoyed the guitar solo which could have been introduced several times. Well done. Derochette alias JaniJackFlash
Interestingly & consistent with your comment Bob harris envisioned the solo also playing over the intro...I tried it that way for a week but my brain kept expecting the 2nd run through to veer into something new so I ditched the 1st iteration. Thanks for your kind words.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Ray, Powerful stuff! Very atypical progression & structure. Cool set of lyrics! Tried to tune ears, "looking" for the guitar you mentioned. I do not hear it, or if I do, it is not annoying and at the right place(s) Thank you for sharing. Misha. P.S. FJ motioned BGV... I think he made a very good point.
Hello Misha, Atypical is home for the untutored typically. That'd be me. The "figure" is just a scale/octave run near the end of each line in the verse. Nothing grand but hpefully it is as you suggest. Thanks.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Ray First off good song. I heard the little riff - I'd be inclined to bump it up slightly in the mix - it sounded good to me. I'd defer to floyd on harmonies. The solo was good as was the progression. Peter
Thanks Peter, I'll EQ the guitar part a little so it "cuts through" a little better.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
My 2 cents: Song structure works well. I'd like to hear the guitar figure pop a bit more. I think the vocals are loud enough but, could be a bit more forward. Maybe the vocals are masked by the other instruments???, try some gentle EQ ducking on the instruments in the mid range where the vocal sits.
This is a really cool tune. I did not make out the riff you mention but to my hearing I think that is a good thing as I felt all the background instruments sounded really tight and I was able to focus on your vocal and lyrics. So not distracting very complimentary to the song. Guitar solo was really good too.
Hi Ray, I think that even without knowing who had written that song I would have guessed that it was you from the chord progressions they're typical for you (as far as I'm concerned). Stefan
Thanks Stefan, I hope typical doesn't become predictable too soon.
Oh no, Ray, that's not what I meant This wasn't the first time that when I listened to one of your songs I noticed chord progressions that made me think ' Where in the world is he now going and how will he ever be able to get back to where he started?'
But, of course, you always managed that perfectly. And I should addd that I like it !
G'day Ray I was missing your Pygmy Beat creations and cool Videos too. I remember when you first posted this because I was impressed with the lyrics. This song has everything going for it ; lyrics,great chorus and attitude. I always seek your advice so take the following with a grain of salt. The guitar motiff at 2.33 is a very good . IMO it should be used as an intro and outro as well as after the first chorus at 1.24 . That will utilize this excellent hook four times instead of just once. Perhaps ditch the organ during the verses to create some space. The mix is a bit mono sounding and could do with a bit more instrument seperation. These guys will give you 2 free mixes per month. (i have no connection to them). This song is worth persuing. cheers Gary
I’m listening to Iteration Three—sounding really good to me. I might want the lead vocal to come up just a little bit, but it’s close to good as is. I’m not listening on headphones, so the laptop speakers may not be doing it justice. Like the tune—some really cool changeups on the melody throughout that really sparkle. Like that lead guitar a lot. Keep working it!
Hi Ray Interesting progression and Bob's short solo works well. For me, the vocals could still come up a touch; some of the lyrics are a little hard to make out (when listening without reading them). But that may just be my not so young ears. Incidentally, I checked out the band called 'Daniel' you referred to in your comment on our last song (hadn't previously heard of them). Those guys could play - probably deserved to be more successful. Regards, Leon
Hi Ray Interesting progression and Bob's short solo works well. For me, the vocals could still come up a touch; some of the lyrics are a little hard to make out (when listening without reading them). But that may just be my not so young ears. Incidentally, I checked out the band called 'Daniel' you referred to in your comment on our last song (hadn't previously heard of them). Those guys could play - probably deserved to be more successful. Regards, Leon
I'll bump the vox in the next mix Leon - thanks for the tip. Daniel were promoted by Yamaha with a flexi disc and interview B side in RAM. I loved the single but it wasn't widely available so only had the flexi. I didn't score a copy of the LP until 20 or so years later. it was produced by Mike Rudd of Spectrum/Ariel fame. Sadly the single was by far the stand out track.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
We're late to the party as usual so listening to version 3.0.
Good one Ray! I (Janice) hear the guitar riff and like it. We both think your lead vocal could come up a little and we like the BGV's. I (Janice) really love your phrasing on the chorus with the emphasis on "no" and "so" and just in general the dynamics are really good.
Bud here: What she said I'll add that Bob sounded excellent as do all your performances ... vocals and instruments.
"The man was in there somewhere Beneath his rhyme there was no reason His façade would someday crumble His humour his treason"
One can connect a lot of personal dots with your lyrics (a good thing) and those lines above really stuck with us. Lot of scenarios to apply that to.
Well done and enjoyable even with the disturbing lyric
A really good song Ray. I like the unusual chord progression. I think the vocals could come forward more but I think from your previous songs that you like the voice back in the mix...
I just noticed in your identifier that you live just up the road... I'm in Ilkley, near Eudlo.... We used to do the odd gig in the Cooran hall... We used to hire several of the old country halls around here - tack up some posters - put on a door charge - get someone to run a bar...
A really good song Ray. I like the unusual chord progression. I think the vocals could come forward more but I think from your previous songs that you like the voice back in the mix...
I just noticed in your identifier that you live just up the road... I'm in Ilkley, near Eudlo.... We used to do the odd gig in the Cooran hall... We used to hire several of the old country halls around here - tack up some posters - put on a door charge - get someone to run a bar...
Just 60kms away. I've only been a Queenslander for three weeks though. If you're in the mood for a jam or recording session I'm here.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Not my genre but I really liked the song so here goes:
Vocals - in tune, well sung and right level for this genre.
Instruments - all good - loved that organ in the intro - maybe could be featured more throughout the song. I did not hear any drum fills - is this on purpose?
Song - nice chord progressions. Could do with a little more light and shade. What about dropping out all instruments except say guitar, organ or just guitar, drums and vocals in the second half of the song for say 8 bars and bringing all instruments back for the chorus? Or What about a stop verse? This kind of light and shade doubles the value of any song. Plus no re-recording necessary - just do it all in the DAW in a few minutes. A good mastering engineer will also suggest this and the A&R folks will love it.
Good luck with your song.
Best Regards Nigel
Nigel Spiers Christchurch, New Zealand info@nzacoustics.com
I always take a song 'as is', no matter how it's composed or arranged, revised, or whatever. The music, is the music.
I think you captured the minor key feel you sought with a gripping intensity. Your vocal and the places in the song where you harmonized it were sharply-felt, which added some 'teeth' to the whirpool of your shaded lyrics.
Concentrated, yet crackling musical energy radiates from this one, for sure!
"Music is what feelings sound like."-- borrowed from a Cakewalk Music Creator forum member, "Mamabear".
Hi Ray, Not my genre but I really liked the song so here goes: Vocals - in tune, well sung and right level for this genre. Instruments - all good - loved that organ in the intro - maybe could be featured more throughout the song. I did not hear any drum fills - is this on purpose? Song - nice chord progressions. Could do with a little more light and shade. What about dropping out all instruments except say guitar, organ or just guitar, drums and vocals in the second half of the song for say 8 bars and bringing all instruments back for the chorus? Or What about a stop verse? This kind of light and shade doubles the value of any song. Plus no re-recording necessary - just do it all in the DAW in a few minutes. A good mastering engineer will also suggest this and the A&R folks will love it. Good luck with your song. Best Regards Nigel
Thanks for the detailed response Nigel, There're plenty of drum fills - at each change in the structure if nowhere else..they may feel subsumed by the tom action but they are there. Organ...it's there as accent mainly and pops out more at the end of phrases/sections. Light and shade dynamics are important but so, in this instance of a short song, is full tilt relentlessness which I opted for - it's what the tom patterns reinforce. A good producer would suggest changes and an ME that one has a good relationship may do. My ME & I have a good creative relationship and he's suggested many great ideas and offered to do interesting things for gratis such as the snare treatment on this old track Thanatoginous...
in which he offered to do a Bowie/Hansa Eventide thing on a sep. snare stem and then insert into the snareless render. I think he did a cool job of it. A&R? Well, perhaps if I were 30 years younger and less self aware that may influence me. The track was mastered a couple of days ago so, to avoid spending again, it'll have to stay as is. I'll keep your ideas in mind for the next project though, (it has several holes punched it it already for dynamics and emphasis). Cheers
Last edited by rayc; 06/17/2102:51 PM.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
None of your links in your introduction post worked. The song was removed or something. After reading all the posts about your song I saw your answer to Greg AND a new link. That worked! So I listened, but don't know if this is the newest version, or the oldest or one in between.
My foundings: Alhough it's not really my style, it is a good song. Very coherent and all the instruments can be heard in a clear way. I mean, not a messy bunch of noise. I have three things though: 1) The sudden start of the song with all instruments playing at once. Probably it's normal, but it would gain a little tension if you shad started with the drums and the bass (or a variation on that) and after some bars the other instruments come in. But that is a mather of taste. 2) Your vocals could use some more db. They have to compete with the other instruments and not always winning that 'battle'. 3) I miss a video on this song. You always have those special, but fascinating videos with your songs and now you don't. Why not???
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This wasn't the first time that when I listened to one of your songs I noticed chord progressions that made me think ' Where in the world is he now going and how will he ever be able to get back to where he started?'
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