My opinion on people getting on stage that don't belong there is that I don't allow it. Ever. I mean to a level where if I was in a Todd Rundgren tribute band and Todd himself was there I would not let him come on stage. I think of it like "This right here is OUR spotlight. You go find your own." Plus if they have not rehearsed with us and don't know an arrangement and screw up the song, WE look bad. I also never attend, and despise, jam night. And letting people sit in, in my opinion, turns your show (which is supposed to be polished and professional) into jam night. And I hate this so much that if a band I am in allows it, even once, I will quit immediately.
How do you all land on this topic?
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I'm with you! The only time we would allow sit ins would be if the bridge or groom wanted someone in their family to preform AND they practiced with us a few times prior to the wedding. We never allowed "walk up" set ins.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
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I have also seen the situation where a girl who won a singing contest had to go up to sing a song with a pretty tight country band with a good female lead singer.
The band couldn't be bothered to back her properly, and the good lead guitarist couldn't even be bothered to play a few melodic lines when she was singing. It wasn't a case of they didn't know the song either, as it was straight forward
Whether it was a case of, they simply didn't care, or they didn't want her to upstage their lead singer I don't know.
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For example, sitting in is a cornerstone of jazz music. gotta give the new gen a chance to mix with the older cats. need to let the masters show you you need to practice.
Sometimes its a trainwreck. Sometimes it makes the night. Don't know till you try.
I think you are missing a lot with that attitude
I'd let Todd Rundgren sit in anytime and I barely know any of his music.
Muiclover, yes, there's always two sides to the coin. Your example is worthy of consideration. It is also disappointing that musicianship 'teamwork' might sometimes unnecessarily take a back seat.
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I started sitting in at age 11 and turned pro at 12. I think those two have some correlation. Yes, it was jazz clubs but not always. There are several resorts to which I would take my horn in my canoe (my best transportation at that age), and the bands would welcome me to play.
Moving on, I have had tons of people sit in, but they must talk with me first. I ask them to talk on the break. I can almost always find a way for them to try one song and decide from there, always with some encouragement.
On the flip side I've had a few come up with horn in hand whose introduction was, "Man, I went to Berklee". My reply, knowing Berklee in the 60s would take anyone, was "Yes, but can you play"?
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I'm sure there has to be a few funny stories about (though not funny at the time) of giving your instrument to someone who wants to play a few tunes, and then they damage it in some way.
Windows 10 (64bit) M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Band in a Box 2024, Cubase 13, Cakewalk and far too many VST plugins that I probably don't need or will ever use
I had a drummer friend. He and I were at a company party were a big band was hired to play. He told me he had asked the band leader if we could sit in on a take of Sweet Home Chicago. A few minutes later I was in the bathroom on the bands break and overheard two guys talking; "...Bill says a couple of jacka$$'s wants to sit in for next session...."! That was all I needed to hear. I quietly disappeared.
Otherwise, all my experiences with sitting in or playing with someone who sat in, were very positive.
Maybe Dan you should have sat in and proved them wrong and announce to the band when you are about to leave the stage "The Jack$$$$$ were't so bad after all"
Windows 10 (64bit) M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Band in a Box 2024, Cubase 13, Cakewalk and far too many VST plugins that I probably don't need or will ever use
Firstly, I’m a collector of old Martins so this may mean more to me. A member of our band during a jam was asked by a guy if he could play my friend’s guitar for a tune. The guitar was a mint 1957 Martin D-21. When he handed it back there were multiple scratches on the back from his belt buckle. Guess we assumed that like us everybody pulled their buckle to the side when playing acoustic. A hard lesson learned. Now on Janice’s 1943 D-18 you’d never notice additional scratches.
I played in a band with a dear old (departed) friend we called Hoss. A guy came to the stage making all these claims about his singing and how he opened for people all the time and such, and talked the singer into letting him sing. This was a band that did a mix of oldies and powerful horn songs, and he wanted to sing Alabama's "When We Make Love". None of us had any idea how to play that song so we said "We don't know that." He said he'd do it a cappella. We all moved to the back of the stage to give him the spotlight. This guy was SO BAD that in the course of a 3 minute song he hit EVERY key at some point. Hoss, standing by his bass amp, picked up his towel and turned his back to the audience and had that towel pressed up really tight against his face so his laughter couldn't escape. I was by my keyboards, stifling laughter the same way, and I stared at Hoss, BEGGING him to look at me. He wouldn't DARE look at me. Now Hoss was named Hoss because he looked facially and by body build exactly like Dan Blocker from Bonanza. We grew up 4 blocks away from each other and played football against each other in high school, so we go WAY back.
When this guy, Rocky, got done singing the room was dead silent because they didn't know if it was a gag or not. The front man energetically said "Let's hear it for Rocky", and nobody made a sound. He quickly added "We're gonna take a short break. The dressing room was behind the stage and we went back there and EXPLODED into laughter. Hoss was sitting down close to hysterical to where his 300 pound body was shaking. And I never let up. "Did you HEAR that response from the crowd?" and he said "Stop. Stop. Please stop." I followed up with "He's probably out there on the pay phone right now calling his mammy back home saying 'You should have see it maw. They crowd loved it so much they just stood there in stunned silence!!'. He's probably on his tour bus by now moving to the next bar down the street." Met by more "Stop! Please stop!"
In both of the next 2 sets I would randomly sing "When..... we make LUUUUV".
At the end of the night I asked Jim, the leader who allowed it, "What were you thinking? Do you really think a major player would be in THIS place nowhere near any of the main venues in town?" And the guy had claimed he opened that night at The Front Row for some country band. There was no internet then to check, but I promise you the only thing he could have done at The Front Row was park cars.
And THAT was the very last time I allowed anybody to sit in. Because for every story of a successful sit in, there are 100 like Rocky. Jazz is a different world. You get your 32 bars and you run with it. A band playing structured arrangements that have been rehearsed to death is a very different story.
When... we make LUUUUV....
RIP, Hoss. I miss you bud! It's been 19 years and I miss that bass sound you had.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023? 2. Send it to us.
If I'm watching a show band (there to be seen as much as heard - sort of like James Brown's Fabulous Flames) that is playing a job where every song and move is rehearsed and scripted there is no room for someone to sit in.
If I'm watching a bunch of folks that play side jobs together, sure.
If the audience is there because of the band, no.
If the audience is there no matter the band, sure.
Remember the song, Piano Man, by Billy Joel? In the song he's a one man show and the crowd he sings about is there to be entertained by him. Sit-ins wouldn't work unless you want to sit in during the break.
Sit ins.... good topic. I don't think I have ever asked, but I have been asked. Depending on the band.... I made my decision. Some were so embarrassingly bad that there was no way.
In the bands I was in, we had a standard rule.... no one sit in. Period.... unless.... we know them and ask them....or the venue owner knows them and asks us. After all, he's paying the bills. I have been in situations where in spite of the venue owner knowing them..... well... one example. I don't recall the place, but the owner came up and introduced us to a young, attractive girl who "sings like a country star" and would love to do a few songs with you.... OK, who can resist that? We asked what songs she wanted to sing and what key. She gave us the title of a song.... and didn't know the key... OK, we'll play it in the key of the record.... Fine...
So we introduce her and start the song.... she totally misses the place she's supposed to start singing.... OK no problem, we circle back musically and I visually cue her.... OMG!!!! she starts in a totally different key than what we're playing in..... so I figure out really quick what key she's in and we pick up the pieces as best we can.... the band is in the key she started in when lo and behold, SHE changes key again. We cut that one short and ushered he off stage.
Then, there was the time we were in a local club and some guy was in there with a Hank Jr tour jacket on.... I don't recall who asked but it was arranged that he was going to sit in on a few songs. And yep.... they would be Hank Jr songs. I didn't like it but it was going to be. Anyway, he says the name of one of Hank Jrs songs.... named the key, which was the key from the record, and we start playing. OMG!!! this dude was freaking amazing. He was in fact very good and professional. As it turned out, yes, he was on Hank's tour, in fact, he was a musician in the band and a backup singer for Bocephus.
We used to play one place that occasionally had open mic night. That was a hoot. Some folks were decent and others were hilariously bad. We enjoyed it because playing with someone you don't know always keeps you on your toes. This same place booked us as backup for several country music stars. IN several cases, we had no clue what songs these folks were going to play, so yes, a number of the songs were right there on stage, we played it without ever having hear the song or the arrangement before.
So sit ins can go in either direction.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
Setting in with people in the blues world was a very common thing. I think because people know the musicians and know what they can play so problems seldom happened.
In general we did not let anyone set in that we did not know. Buddy Guy, Johnny Clyde Copland, Joe Hughes, Albert Collins and many musicians who you would likely not know have set in with us. We have also set in with their bands depending what the venue was.
Not only did we know what songs they played, they knew what songs we played. None of this would ever happen at a really large concert for us or them. I don't know Eric Clapton personally but I know what he is capable of and would have no issue if he wanted to set in. And beside if you want to "cut heads" with Louis and I, bring it own...lol We had respect for each other, and never had any fear that anyone was going to "show us up".
Sometimes we would agree before the start what we were going to play. Sometimes one of those guys would just kick something off and expected you to find the key and and play along within the first three notes. No big deal. Normally within the first two or three notes we knew what was coming next. It is called listen, a concept that escapes a lot of so called musicians nowadays.
There are jam sessions in LA where it is common to get to play with world famous musicians. I have set in with Larry Carlton and Robin Ford, both of which can play circles around me. Both have supported me in what I could play at the time because they are professionals and have no need to prove anything to anyone.
I don't have a 1957 Martin, but if I did there would be a very limited list of people who I would let play it. Itzhak Perlman can play my guitar if he likes if I can play his violin...lol Professionals don't often ask others to play their instruments. They bring their own if they have in mind to set in with someone.
Billy
Last edited by Planobilly; 06/12/2102:42 PM.
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