PG Music Home Forums PG Music Wishlists Band-in-a-Box Wishlist Unfreeze/regenerate one bar on one channel

Often there will be a near-perfect interpretation of an arrangement, just a bar or two that has an odd guitar chord or drum punch. It would be great to highlight the bar and replace just that one phrase.

I know RealBand can sorta do this, but a quick-fix change would be very helpful and time-saving.

If you have BIAB 2020 or later, BIAB now has multi riff just like RealBand and using the multi riff feature you can now generate and replace selected bars or the whole track.

Here's a link to a PG Music tutorial -
Multi Riffs Feature Explored

If you don't have BIAB 2020 or later, you can use the Audio Channel and the Audio Editor to highlight a replacement phrase from another bar in the track and overwrite the offending bar and accomplish the same thing. Using the Multi Riff feature will give you 7 new options to choose from but the copy/paste is quick.

+1

This has been requested numerous times and it will hopefully be implemented some day. As you describe, selecting a section of bars and simply regenerating just that would be the ideal solution (and wouldn't require a 7-minute tutorial video to explain it!.

Charlie's work-around is a good one but it is a lot more complicated than I would like plus it has the undesirable side effect of requiring you to convert your bars to an audio file instead of staying with RealTracks.

+1 again!

+1 from me also, again.

The present method is quite convoluted and far from ideal. I believe it would be much improved if it could operate similar to RealBand's method.

First. Neither suggestion I made are "Charlie" work-arounds. They both are PG Music features designed to accomplish exactly the OP's stated 'wish'.

Both suggestions accomplish the task from solely within the BIAB program.

Not knowing what version the OP owns, it's impossible to specifically reply to his 'wish' other than advise him regardless of his version, his 'wish' can be accomplished using BIAB to unfreeze/regenerate one bar on one channel.

Regarding PG Music's seven minute tutorial, Tobin is further than 2 minutes into the video before he starts his actual demonstration. There are only a few steps to complete the actual task and were Tobin simply processing the task, it takes less than a minute.

I'm curious to which step you found to complicated to do?
Select a channel in the BIAB Mixer?
Select bars?
Rt click on a channel to open the RealTracks Picker and select the Multi Riff Option?
Loop your selection?
Solo the seven multi riffs to audition them?
Choose your favorite riff from the seven?
Import your favorite riff selection to the Audio Channel?
Mute the RealTracks Channel at the appropriate bars for the multi riff to play?

Sadly, you're confused about "it has the undesirable side effect of requiring you to convert your bars to an audio file instead of staying with RealTracks."

In the tutorial, Tobin generates four bars of an added RealTrack to an existing style. He could have chosen any of the Style's RealTrack Channels to Multi Riff. Tobin only generated the four bars and discarded the remainder of that RealTrack because in the tutorial, he only wanted four bars of the instrument soloing so the soloist RealTrack was not necessary to keep. He could have generated the solo normally and found those four bars to completely satisfy his need but the purpose of the tutorial was to demonstrate the Multi Riff Feature which gave him 7 - four bar solo's to choose from.

In the OP's wish, we don't know which of his RealTrack channel's is selected, if it's an added RealTrack to the Style or a RealTrack from the style and it doesn't matter. The process is the same except the remainder of the RealTrack remains rather than discarded since the OP is completely satisfied with his RealTrack except for two bars. Therefore, only the two bars that are unsatisfactory are addressed.

In fact, the entire RealTrack remains intact. Only the Multi Riff the user selects is placed on the Audio Channel. On the original RealTrack the bars the multi riff will replace are muted and the Multi Riff plays in the place of the muted bars. At no point is the original RealTrack lost or altered, new audio generated by the Multi Riff feature is punched in - to replace the muted audio from the Audio Channel.

Regarding my second suggestion, which is only necessary if the OP doesn't have 2020 or newer BIAB, copying a bar from one location and pasting to another bar somewhere along the audio file, is elementary audio editing plain and simple. Every DAW in existence can do it. It can be done in a program as simple as Audacity. Elementary stuff that's quick and easy to do in BIAB.

Charlie, this forum is called "Band-in-a-Box Wishlist". It is a place to...wait for it...make wishlist requests!

Your workaround is useful and welcome. And yes, convoluted, confusing and unlikely to be easily remembered at crunch time!

Not sure why you cannot accept that an easier way would be better?? I know you love to say "BIAB already does that" but this is a great example of why that just ain't always true.

The OP asked to be able to "highlight the bar and replace just that one phrase". That feature/functionality would be far, far better than the multiriff workaround you presented.

Thank you for your suggestion. I almost always learn a little something new from your posts like this but the original request was a great one and BIAB does NOT already do what was requested.

I always thought there was a far more eloquent way to achieve this and I am sure this is definitely achievable in BiaB:

1: Select the required bar range
2: audition the various multi-riffs in a separate, dedicated presentation display
3: choose the riff that you want
4: that riff and the meta-data that creates it are integrated into the specific track - at RealTrack level, not Audio output level

See my previous suggestion here:
BiaB ideal Multi-riff process

I'm pretty sure that RealBand does this now.

And yes, there are other ways using cut and paste with Audio tracks, and I know this also. My comments here are not about arguing that it can't already be done using other methods. My comments here are about suggestions for improving the current methods, to deliver a more user-friendly, flexible and workable solution.

Soundsmith .
re regens . please read this detailed thread sometime and look at pipelines wonderfull graphic he did .
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=648897#Post648897
in this situation one could regen anything.
please read the whole thread. and also my 3 wishes for 2022.
includeing new ideas on handling intros/verses/bridges/choruses/music for film etc etc
best
oldmuso

<< Unfreeze/regenerate one bar on one channel >>




Ok JohnJohnJohn. I've reposted exactly what the OP said and asked. What leads you to assume from his actual words, complete and in context, he's 'wishing' for a brand new, never before seen button to push so when he highlights a phrase that with one push of the new, never before seen button, it replaces just that one phrase? Why can't he be wishing for a way to accomplish the task in BIAB? He acknowledges he thinks it can be done in RealBand and he would like to do it in BIAB. Note that he states this is a situation he encounters often. He's been a registered user since 2014 and the capability to edit audio in BIAB has existed since 2014. Is it possible he wasn't aware of this and was correcting his audio files in another audio program rather than in BIAB? Seems possible since he references RealBand and puts his wish to be able to do the same in the "Band-in-a-Box Wishlist".

It's your assumption the OP wants something that doesn't exist when perhaps he's just unaware of what exists. He doesn't mention that he wants the program modified. You assumed the former and I addressed his actual question how to "highlight the bar and replace just that one phrase". Your 'solution' doesn't exist and mine explained two methods with an end result of achieving the exact request he made; To highlight the bar. Replace it with a quick fix, helpful, time-saving change in BIAB.

Yes, I'm aware this is the "Band-in-a-Box Wishlist". Yes, I'll gladly accept and embrace an easier method if one ever exists and is implemented. But in the meantime, I'll utilize the existing features\functionalities of BIAB and include them in my workflow. I'm certainly not trying to start an argument or speak bad of a wish but rather share information of existing methods to accomplish a task.

Nothing I posted in my reply should have any effect to the staff and developers at PG Music to whom all of these 'wish list' posts are directed. Surely you understand they're very aware of these workarounds I've suggested. Why do you assume they interpreted the OP's post to be wishing for a magic button rather than a way to perform the task in BIAB? Awareness may solve his problem. Even if it does solve the problem, PG Staff are still free to enhance BIAB with a future magic button to edit RealTracks with less convolution, confusion and hard to remember at crunch time. I'm hoping they do. I'll certainly use it. But when you say the workaround is convoluted, confusing and unfunctional, you're talking about PG Music's product not anything that's mine...

The same as Trevor, I'm all "for improving the current methods, to deliver a more user-friendly, flexible and workable solution." But I'm not sitting back on my thumbs for years not applying techniques I can use today, losing countless hours of better music production, pretending these techniques don't exist.

I believe a common thread between RealTracks and RealTrack multi riffs in BIAB and RB is that they both obviously and exclusively require editing of WAV audio. In RB, the track is already in WAV format, in BIAB, the RealTrack has to be converted to WAV. For whatever reason, and that reason is proprietary and unique to BIAB, they're the only company that can do it, since the inception of RealTracks, the source code is such that the code/audio relationship has been editing is done in audio (WAV) form. That's not likely to change since 1. It's always been that way and 2. In recent releases PG Music has made a lot of enhancements, improvement in the quality of the final audio. 3. These recent improvements and upgrades are all based on the existing method of how RealTracks are created and edited...

Proof to me that the above is correct is after reviewing the thread posted by Trevor from December 2019 when Multi Riffs were introduced, every audio (WAV) issue discussed has been corrected but not a single issue that requires re-coding how RT's are created have been. Just saying... The -1 offset and syncing issues for example.

I think we're in for a long wait for the magic button but also think you'll find the Audio Editor in BIAB to be very robust and able to provide you many features no other DAW in the world can offer, including RB. Using the Audio Editor on the Audio Channel and Utility Tracks gives you instant feedback to review your editing or added effects results. You can try out the Audio Editor in BIAB with assurance of familiarity because it looks and works the same as every other DAW. If you happen to have a newer version of BIAB with the Multi Riff feature and Utility tracks, all the better.

I don't post to a wish list thread to shoot down the request but to hopefully share my knowledge so a reader takes away a little more know-how about techniques that may assist them today with their song projects. I can't help it if PG Music staff and developers have come up with features/functionalities that can exactly produce results that a poster is either requesting a magic button or just knowledge of techniques they can use as a solution to situations they encounter often in their projects.

If you prefer I not post existing features and functionalities, techniques and processes let me know. It's not something I have to do.

Charlie, I know you are passionate about the methods you mention, you have demonstrated this many times. Your effort and level of detail to explain are truly appreciated. No question.

But the O/P simply stated: 'It would be great to highlight the bar and replace just that one phrase', and while other methods might achieve that, they involve a lot more effort than what the O/P has suggested. The O/P never mentioned anything about editing audio.

It was mentioned: "In RB, the track is already in WAV format, in BIAB, the RealTrack has to be converted to WAV." I'm not sure that this statement is entirely accurate. All RealTrack files are stored in an audio format already (WAV or other), along with related meta-data.

If everyone accepts a more complicated workaround, then it's likely that the product functionality won't be improved. Please don't take this as a criticism of your excellent efforts. I was just stating what I feel you also believe would be a usable feature improvement. You said so yourself.

The O/P didn't ask for any alternative method or workaround, he simply wished that 'It would be great to "highlight the bar and replace just that one phrase".' I am merely supporting that request, and I absolutely believe that it is possible to deliver.

Charlie, I hope you will continue to educate.

I have also been criticized for asking questions to clarify whether a person making a Wishlist post fully understands what is already possible. Sometimes I offer a history of why something evolved as it did. I think doing that is a valid use of expertise here. I intend to continue, despite some people being offended, because I believe if the request is fully understood and vetted, it will be more likely to be implemented.

As an aside, I would really like the magic button. I'm very skilled in audio editing, but when I'm composing, that is taking me off task.

As I clearly said, I appreciate Charlie's workarounds and learn from them.

I also believe, within the context of a wishlist request, suggesting there is no need for the wish, even implicitly, diminishes the value of the request in the eyes of everyone, including PGM.

Finally, no one asked for a "magic button" but the OP clearly requested a simple way of replacing a bar or three. And that is an extremely valuable request!

+1 to OP!

And, if we're offering up alternatives to the requested wish, I'd suggest a much less complex technique would be to simply save your song as version 2 (or 3, 4, etc.), regenerate and then sort it in the DAW. I've been doing this since 2012 when I first purchased BIAB. It was recommended by forum users back then and remains a simple solution if the magic button never appears.

I see this as, highlight the measure or measures, right-click, and have Regenerate highlighted selection as a menu choice.

1, 2, 3 done.

Do it until you hear what you want. Provide an Undo that works as many times as you have set the Undo level.

So the context menu could say:
● Regenerate highlighted selection [then select track, or all tracks]
● Undo regeneration
● Cancel

To Soundsmith, the OP, would this meet your needs?

I appreciate the follow up comments from everyone and in any future comments I post, I'll try to do a better job to make sure it's clear I'm not attempting to devalue or diminish a wish list request in any way.

As Trevor noted, I did say were this wish to be implemented, I'd heartedly embrace it, use it and appreciate it.

Yes!!

And the UNDOs are very important, to correct mistakes and things that didn't go the way you expected.

I already wish there was at least a single UNDO for being able to go back to the previously generated version of the song if BIAB automatically regenerated something before you were ready and had forgotten to freeze something.

Any update on this brilliant feature request?

Chicago...
This is available.... If you have current version.

Press ALT+F8 select a bar, select a track that you want to regenerate and you will just regenerate content of that particular bar, leaving all others intact. And you can try out a few different regenerations, see what works best. You can even, in most cases regenerate a segment of a single bar.

P.S. This is probably among top 10 features BIAB introduced in 5 years I was here. I use it on almost all of my tunes.

BIAB has come a long, long way in the past 2-3 years.

Once this was a dream, and now it is reality.