Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread
Print Thread
Go To
#663865 07/12/21 08:10 AM
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 108
R
Apprentice
OP Offline
Apprentice
R
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 108
In BIAB Win 2021 I am looking at the Show Form display. It looks like it could be helpful with song creation and analysis.
But I cannot discern what it is showing. Please, Is someone able to share some light on this feature?

I get to the [Show form] button on the Edit Repeats and Endings dialog. It is in the bottom left corner.
The Help under Add/Edit Repeats and Endings has a section titled Examining The Form Of A Song. One of the points is that it shows the form in 2-bar sections.


Example song
[Chords]
| C| F| C| G| C| F| C| G|
| C| G| C| F| C F / /| C G / /| C G / /| C F / /|

Show Form display
[A] ,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7
[A] ,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7
[-]
,99

I accept that it might be me, I may simply being too 'tik' to get it today.
thanks Roy

Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,256
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,256
I'm not sure if this is the 'Show Form' or the 'Song Form' you are referring to. Song Form is discussed in detail on pager 135 of the 2021 manual (available from BiaB > Help > Program Manuals).


BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 108
R
Apprentice
OP Offline
Apprentice
R
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 108
thank you VT for the reference

It is the Show Form function that has me exploring

Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,799
Veteran
Online Content
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,799
I just looked at that and got the same result. I have to admit, I've never seen this before and cannot explain it.

Everyone, to see what he's talking about, do this:

In the chordsheet, right-click on a chord.
Select Repeats/Codas/1st-2nd Endings
Click on Show Form (three up from bottom left)


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,256
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,256
Thanks for the clarification. In my effort to assist, I searched the manual for the text SHOW FORM and nothing was found.

Perhaps there is missing data in the manual? I'll report it.


BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 108
R
Apprentice
OP Offline
Apprentice
R
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 108
There is a section in the Help under
Add/Edit Repeats and Endings
has a piece titled Examining The Form Of A Song

Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,256
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,256
Thanks for the clarification, appreciated.


BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 12,580
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 12,580
When I click on "Help", and scroll down the topic, I see the following:

Quote:
Examining The Form Of A Song

Right-click on Chord Sheet then select Repeats/Codas/1st- 2nd Endings and click on the [Show form…] button.

This displays a summary of the form of the song as examined by Band-in-a-Box. This is useful for analyzing the form of the song, in case you want to add your own repeats and endings manually, and want a quick summary of the form. Band-in-a-Box shows you the form in 2-bar sections. A typical AABA song might display a form like this.

0, 1, 2, 3

0, 1, 2, 4

5, 6, 7, 8

0, 1, 2, 4

Each of these numbers represents a unique 2 bar section of the song. You can see the first section (0, 1, 2, 3) is similar to the second section (0, 1, 2, 4) in fact they differ only in the last 2 bars. So this would be a good candidate for a 1st/2nd ending. Also the last A section of 0, 1, 2, 4 is identical to the 2nd A section, so would be a good candidate for a DC al Coda symbol.



John

Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD
Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA

BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK

http://www.sus4chord.com
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 108
R
Apprentice
OP Offline
Apprentice
R
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 108
Right John. that is the help information I see as well.

To Give it a try

[Chords]
|:a) C| F| C| F| C| G| C| G|
| C| F| C| F| C| G| C| G|
| C| F| C| F| C| G| C| G|
| C| F| C| F| C| G| C| G:3X|
[ChordsEnd]
With this set of heavily repeated 3 chords in 32 bars
In total only two sets of chord pairs C-F C-G

SongForm reports
[A] ,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7
[A] ,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7
[-]
,99

"What does it all mean Basil?

Originally Posted By: jford
When I click on "Help", and scroll down the topic, I see the following:

Quote:
Examining The Form Of A Song


Last edited by RoyReddy; 07/14/21 02:24 AM.
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,799
Veteran
Online Content
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,799
Either it’s not implemented, or I can’t break the code. Maybe Simon or Chantelle will explain it.


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,838
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,838
Hi Roy,

This is my take on it.

Quote:
SongForm reports
[A] ,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7
[A] ,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7
[-]
,99


*Each numeral represents two bars.

*In the first [A], there are 8 numerals so this means that there are 16 bars.

*0 = bars 1 & 2, 1 = bars 3 & 4....7 = bars 15 & 16

*Wherever the same numeral occurs, this means that those two bars of chords defined by their first appearance occur.

*Since your second group of [A] is exactly the same as the first, then the 16 bars are identical to the first group.

Let's say I had the progression...

C|F|C|G|C|C|F|F

First section...

C|F = 0
C|G = 1
C|C = 2
F|F = 3

C|F|C|G|C|Dm|G|C

Second section...

C|F = 0 (this has already been defined)
C|G = 1 (also defined above)
C|Dm = 4 (it's a new chord pair so it takes a new numeral)
G|C = 5 (another new chord pair)

This means, that if I want to use repeats, I could repeat the first 4 bars of the first section and and then jump to a second ending for the last four bars represented by chords 4 and 5.

Regards,
Noel


MY SONGS...
Audiophile BIAB 2024
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 108
R
Apprentice
OP Offline
Apprentice
R
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 108
OK Noel, Thanks for the insight. I am tracking with you on the logical representation of 8 pairs of bars. That is what I was expecting. It becomes a code to represent the sets of chord pairs. In your example the code is from 0 to 5.

Does your example work for you?
| C| F| C| G| C| C| F| F|
| C| F| C| G| C| Dm| G| C|

I tried it with the 16 chords you proposed. Alas, I get the same output
Show Form display
[A] ,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7
[A] ,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7
[-]
,99

OH WAIT IF I replicate the 16 bars and make the song 64 Bars long . . .
then Show Form displays
[A] ,0,1,2,3
[A] ,0,1 ,4,5
[A] ,0,1,2,3
[A] ,0,1 ,4,5
[A] ,0,1,2,3
[A] ,0,1 ,4,5
[A] ,0,1,2,3
[A] ,0,1 ,4,5
[-]
,99

The mystery is a little less mysterious, with the 64 bars it begins to show the Song Form code.

I experimented with several other combinations of chords in 32, 48 & 64 bars, the results were erratic, unreliable and all over the map.

I am going to move on and try go on living without this SongForm report. cool
Thanks still for the help RrR

Originally Posted By: Noel96
Hi Roy,
...
Let's say I had the progression...
C|F|C|G|C|C|F|F
First section...

C|F = 0
C|G = 1
C|C = 2
F|F = 3

C|F|C|G|C|Dm|G|C
Second section...

C|F = 0 (this has already been defined)
C|G = 1 (also defined above)
C|Dm = 4 (it's a new chord pair so it takes a new numeral)
G|C = 5 (another new chord pair)

This means, that if I want to use repeats, I could repeat the first 4 bars of the first section and and then jump to a second ending for the last four bars represented by chords 4 and 5.
Regards, Noel

Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,838
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,838
Hi Roy,

That's strange that the 16-bars I used didn't work for you. They did for me. Did you generate the song? BIAB usually does its calculation things during generation.

The SGU file I used is below. I had my song set to one chorus. That might have made a difference.

IMPORTANT... I've changed the extension of the file to .txt so that I can upload it to the forum. You will need to change it back to .SGU so that it can be loaded into BIAB. (It is a BIAB song file.)

Regards,
Noel

Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in)
royreddy - show form.txt (31.59 KB, 3 downloads)

MY SONGS...
Audiophile BIAB 2024
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 108
R
Apprentice
OP Offline
Apprentice
R
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 108
Thank Noel, the song you attached worked
You may have exposed the key to the mystery with the suggestion to Generate.
the 16 bar song form worked
and a 48 bar generated version song form also worked

Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,838
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,838
Excellent!


MY SONGS...
Audiophile BIAB 2024
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Go To

Link Copied to Clipboard
ChatPG

Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.

ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.

PG Music News
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!

The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!

There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.

If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.

We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!

Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.

Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed!

Video: Volume Automation in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created a video to help you learn more about the Volume Automation options in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows.

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Volume Automation

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#volume-automation

Video: Audio Input Monitoring with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created this short video to explain Audio Input Monitoring within Band-in-a-Box® 2024, and included some tips & troubleshooting details too!

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Audio Input Monitoring

3:17: Tips
5:10: Troubleshooting

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#audio-input-monitoring

Video: Enhanced Melodists in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®!

We've enhanced the Melodists feature included in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows!

Access the Melodist feature by pressing F7 in the program to open the new MultiPicker Library and locate the [Melodist] tab.

You can now generate a melody on any track in the program - very handy! Plus, you select how much of the melody you want generated - specify a range, or apply it to the whole track.

See the Melodist in action with our video, Band-in-a-Box® 2024: The Melodist Window.

Learn even more about the enhancements to the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024upgrade/chapter3.htm#enhanced-melodist

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Specifically for Reaper®

New with the DAW Plugin Version 6.0, released with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows: the Reaper® Panel!

This new panel offers built-in specific support for the Reaper® DAW API allowing direct transfer of Band-in-a-Box® files to/from Reaper® tracks!

When you run the Plugin from Reaper®, there is a panel to set the following options:
-BB Track(s) to send: This allows you to select the Plugin tracks that will be sent Reaper.
-Destination Reaper Track: This lets you select the destination Reaper track to receive media content from the Plugin.
-At Bar: You can select a bar in Reaper where the Plugin tracks should be placed.
-Start Below Selected Track: This allows you to place the Plugin tracks below the destination Reaper track.
-Overwrite Reaper Track: You can overwrite previous content on the destination Reaper track.
-Move to Project Folder: With this option, you can move the Plugin tracks to the Reaper project folder.
-Send Reaper Instructions Enable this option to send the Reaper Instructions instead of rendering audio tracks, which is faster.
-Render Audio & Instructions: Enable this option to generate audio files and the Reaper instructions.
-Send Tracks After Generating: This allows the Plugin to automatically send tracks to Reaper after generating.
-Send Audio for MIDI Track: Enable this option to send rendered audio for MIDI tracks.
-Send RealCharts with Audio: If this option is enabled, Enable this option to send RealCharts with audio.

Check out this video highlighting the new Reaper®-specific features: Band-in-a-Box® DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Specifically for Reaper®

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Video

The new Band-in-a-Box VST DAW Plugin Verion 6 adds over 20 new features!

Watch the new features video to learn more: Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2024 - DAW Plugin Version 6 New Features

We also list these new features at www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.plugin.htm.

Forum Statistics
Forums66
Topics81,394
Posts732,480
Members38,441
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
Newest Members
zagrajbarke, Ernest J, Izzy, BenChaz, Csofi
38,440 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
MarioD 195
Al-David 124
DC Ron 112
dcuny 87
rsdean 83
Today's Birthdays
CeeDee, SethMould
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5