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#665382 - 07/23/21 02:21 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Biab 2021 [Re: beatmaster]
Registered: 05/16/17
Posts: 1642
beatmaster Offline
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Registered: 05/16/17
Posts: 1642
Ok Thanks Rustyspoon the link you posted , to me was once again same old same old for too long ....Just like a rusty spoon take care !!



Edited by beatmaster (07/23/21 02:32 PM)
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#665412 - 07/23/21 06:30 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Biab 2021 [Re: beatmaster]
Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 6141
Loc: Akron, Oh
eddie1261 Offline
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Here's one for the users who can't play but post songs they have "written".

(I know... I know... Be nice.)



Edited by eddie1261 (07/23/21 09:48 PM)
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#665430 - 07/24/21 04:01 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Biab 2021 [Re: eddie1261]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 13996
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Online   content
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Registered: 06/05/12
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I do enjoy that kind of 'dark humor' grin
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#665449 - 07/24/21 06:27 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Biab 2021 [Re: VideoTrack]
Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1102
justanoldmuso Offline
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Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1102
for fun my dear wife gave me one birthday custom T shirts she had made that say "BE HAPPY PLAY GUITAR"
lol.
imho theres nothing quite like cranking a guitar amp to 11.
it makes me happy.
and whats with this ? ive been trying various new "teles"
in past few years. all seem to go out of tune easily...sigh. mind you i can be rather rough on a gtr.

back to biab i wish pg included a full blown orch lib at a decent price, thus precludeing extra time spent on midi traks and then useing third party plug ins.
gimme crazy unique horn and brass sounds for example...
bassoons oboes etc etc.

peace out
OM
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#665458 - 07/24/21 07:29 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Biab 2021 [Re: justanoldmuso]
Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 6141
Loc: Akron, Oh
eddie1261 Offline
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Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 6141
Loc: Akron, Oh
Originally Posted By: justanoldmuso
back to biab i wish pg included a full blown orch lib at a decent price.


That has always been a missed marketing opportunity in my opinion. Instrument section VSTs sold alongside their product. Horns and strings seems like a good thing to have available. Lounge Lizard does it for Rhodes pianos. PG can do it for strings. While I have used some of their violin Real Tracks, stand-alone orchestral horn and string sections would be great.
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#665463 - 07/24/21 08:17 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Biab 2021 [Re: beatmaster]
Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 5055
Loc: Florida
90 dB Offline
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"back to biab i wish pg included a full blown orch lib at a decent price, thus precludeing extra time spent on midi traks and then useing third party plug ins.
gimme crazy unique horn and brass sounds for example...
bassoons oboes etc etc."


Why reinvent the wheel? These libraries are FREE:

https://thehomerecordings.com/the-11-best-free-orchestral-vst-libraries/


Back to the topic, I agree with a lot of what's been stated.

I've been requesting a clean, tasteful 2nd Guitar RT for a long time. Brett Mason is a great player, but he's a Blues Pig, and every track is overplayed, over-amped and absolutely swimming in reverb.

There. I feel better now. grin




Regards,

Bob

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#665471 - 07/24/21 08:55 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Biab 2021 [Re: 90 dB]
Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 6141
Loc: Akron, Oh
eddie1261 Offline
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Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 6141
Loc: Akron, Oh
Originally Posted By: 90 dB
I've been requesting a clean, tasteful 2nd Guitar RT for a long time. Brett Mason is a great player, but he's a Blues Pig, and every track is overplayed, over-amped and absolutely swimming in reverb.


AND a perfect study in "how many notes can I fit into this 8 bars". While I admire his skills, he plays with very little taste IMHO. I will take a Joe Walsh type over a Brent Mason type every day. Joe's solos say something. Brent Mason's solos say only "look at me".
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#665500 - 07/24/21 12:41 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Biab 2021 [Re: beatmaster]
Registered: 05/16/17
Posts: 1642
beatmaster Offline
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Posts: 1642
Joe Walsh !!! now your talking !! thats the style needed !
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https://beatmaster1.bandcamp.com/releases


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#665540 - 07/24/21 05:12 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Biab 2021 [Re: 90 dB]
Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 6141
Loc: Akron, Oh
eddie1261 Offline
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Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 6141
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Originally Posted By: 90 dB

Why reinvent the wheel? These libraries are FREE:

https://thehomerecordings.com/the-11-best-free-orchestral-vst-libraries/


The point is that we shouldn't have to be piling up stuff to get these sounds. I don't know that place. I download that software and it has a keylogger in it to record my passwords, and then what? Also we are talking about Real Tracks from which parts can be built. VSTs are just sounds and then I have to play parts. I have a program that plays parts. So I don't have to.

People here would like to see some new artists and not 100 snips played by the same guy that are only slight variations on a theme.
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#665545 - 07/24/21 05:26 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Biab 2021 [Re: beatmaster]
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 8473
Loc: Wauconda, Il.
MusicStudent Offline
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Posts: 8473
Loc: Wauconda, Il.
Two quick points... which appear to be getting lost in the discussion.

1) Eddie, as you know any of the BIAB midi tracks or midi chord charts or individual RT midi transcriptions can be used to play any VSTi. So you can use these to play the parts. By combining this features of BIAB with the world of VSTi's opens a huge variety of high quality sounds.

2 BIAB has thousands of styles so it should not surprise anyone that they have a good selection of Orchestral Styles. Here is a listing of 83 which are all essentially Real Styles. But when they have RT transcriptions as many do, see point #1 above.

These two points have been a focus area for me over the past year or two. I only wish I had some good examples of their applications to illustrate these point. But that is another sad story.


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#665550 - 07/24/21 06:17 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Biab 2021 [Re: beatmaster]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 7956
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 7956
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Beatmaster,

Please correct me if I'm wrong. As I read your initial post you present two points:

Point One:
Quote:
Just cancelled my cross grade to 2021 mac version , I hope by now i can give a a view to my honest opinion without being shot down (I'm ducking anyway ). I know utility tracks etc. have been added and so on!. but sorry its the same old, same old styles patterns!
I've read and reread this multiple times and come to the same conclusion, you expected the styles to be different between the Windows and Mac programs. I don't think that is what you mean.

What I suspect you mean is you've used the Windows version in the past. You decided to cross grade to Mac this year. You don't like the new for 2021 styles and wouldn't like them regardless is you had purchased this year's Window or Mac edition.

Point Two:
Quote:
I don't think the age group on the users of Biab is an Issue , i believe its stuck in its core as in when it was produced / commercialiased to a software programme .


I understand that to mean you believe the core program has stagnated.

I'm not convinced the program has stagnated. I believe the program has been added on so much that it has become complex and difficult to enjoy or use to it's maximum potential.

Several other forum members have mentioned they want more musicians making RealTracks. May I suggest people look at UserTracks and Performance Tracks as a way to add variety to their audio productions? UserTracks and Performance Tracks allow anyone to create custom audio tracks that will work in Band-in-a-Box or RealBand. UserTracks work best for rhythm or background tracks while Performance Tracks are the perfect tool to use for riffs, melodies or solos. If a user knows what they want, but is unable to play it themselves, they can take the money they would spend on an annual upgrade or RealTracks set and hire a musician to record the part. Once they've created the RealTrack or Performance Track they can offer the part for sale and recoup some or all of their investment.
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#665590 - 07/25/21 04:56 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Biab 2021 [Re: beatmaster]
Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 10995
Loc: GA USA
Janice & Bud Offline
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Loc: GA USA
This is perhaps off topic but then maybe …

I find the DI option extremely helpful on many rhythm and solo guitar RTs. Once rendered DI I can then apply one of Logic’s many amps; mics and cabinets for a much different sound than the original RT. And when using DI it is easier comping different RTs as you get the same tone, etc. on your track. FWIW.

Bud
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#665594 - 07/25/21 05:20 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Biab 2021 [Re: beatmaster]
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 8473
Loc: Wauconda, Il.
MusicStudent Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 8473
Loc: Wauconda, Il.
There are two schools of thought in this thread, 1) BIAB is getting a bit long in the tooth and needs an infusion of new blood, and 2) the possibility of BIAB is limited only to ones imagination and creative talent.

I fall somewhere in the middle. grin

By the way, here is an example demonstrating #2 by our own FJ.
https://soundcloud.com/fj-2/cowgirl-cinderella
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BIAB2022, Dell XPS 8920 Intel Core I7-7700 @ 3.60GHz 16GB RAM
"...My goal is not to create backing tracks for my music, but rather to get more of me in my music."

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#665601 - 07/25/21 06:33 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Biab 2021 [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 5055
Loc: Florida
90 dB Offline
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Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 5055
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Janice & Bud
This is perhaps off topic but then maybe …

I find the DI option extremely helpful on many rhythm and solo guitar RTs. Once rendered DI I can then apply one of Logic’s many amps; mics and cabinets for a much different sound than the original RT. And when using DI it is easier comping different RTs as you get the same tone, etc. on your track. FWIW.

Bud



While that is true, it still doesn't address the problem of overplaying. Everything is played way over the top, as a "solo". No finesse.


Regards,

Bob

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#665602 - 07/25/21 06:41 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Biab 2021 [Re: MusicStudent]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 16374
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 16374
Loc: Hamlin NY
Originally Posted By: MusicStudent
There are two schools of thought in this thread, 1) BIAB is getting a bit long in the tooth and needs an infusion of new blood, and 2) the possibility of BIAB is limited only to ones imagination and creative talent.

.............


I believe both schools of thought are correct.

For #1 - I think BiaB is falling behind other music generating software. Having limited time signatures, not having the ability to put chords on 8th or 16ths notes, not having more contemporary RTs or GUI are just a few examples.

For #2 - There are a number of forum members who are taking BiaB to the outer limits of creativity. Some are doing amazing work with RTs and/or MIDI.

My experience with RTs is very limited so all I can say is that there are a number of companies issuing loops that can be cut and pasted into songs. Thus there must be a big market for that and that could/does take revenue from PGM.

I know for a fact that BiaB is far behind others on the MIDI side. SuperMIDItracks (non-quantized tracks) are the norm outside of the PGM world as are the examples in #1.

YMMV
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#665620 - 07/25/21 09:15 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Biab 2021 [Re: beatmaster]
Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 6141
Loc: Akron, Oh
eddie1261 Offline
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Mario, let's see if I can be succinct in my sleep deprived, light-headed state.

MY personal issue, and I may be a minority of 1, is not at all about the functionality (the program). It is about the content (the samples tracks). That is what has gotten stale. The same old-ness of the Real Tracks seem to have not had any new names of faces since my first copy (2009). Brent Mason is played out. So is Paul Franklin on pedal steel and John Jarvis on piano. Their samples sound like they sat on a stool, saw the red light go on, and said "How many notes can I fit in here to impress everybody with my glitz and glitter?" If you go through those styles carefully (you will likely never see all the cross-pollination unless it becomes a full time job) you see the same names surface on EVERY genre. I know full well that if I have a pattern in my mind that no generation software is going to randomly create it. All I am asking for (and some others seem to agree) is new names with different musical thought patterns and different skill sets. I think part of the obliviousness (and I didn't even know if that was really a word) comes from how many people have never left BIAB for RB. (I have never left RB for BIAB.) There seems to be a difference between what the 2 can create for soloing. (Someone who has used both please correct me on that if it is not correct.) I don't know if both pull from the same sample pool. In fact I don't even know what they mean by "sample tank". As I said earlier, studio and touring musicians were largely unemployed for 18 months. Did any of the power brokers at PG even consider approaching them about contributing?

I wish I could find that Twitter exchange with Eric Marienthal where I thanked him for doing a solo for me and he replied "Who the &$@*% are you?" Then I explained. LOL!
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#665623 - 07/25/21 10:59 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Biab 2021 [Re: MusicStudent]
Registered: 04/08/07
Posts: 306
Loc: Jersey Channel Islands
Brian Cadoret Offline
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Registered: 04/08/07
Posts: 306
Loc: Jersey Channel Islands
Originally Posted By: MusicStudent
Two quick points... which appear to be getting lost in the discussion.

1) Eddie, as you know any of the BIAB midi tracks or midi chord charts or individual RT midi transcriptions can be used to play any VSTi. So you can use these to play the parts. By combining this features of BIAB with the world of VSTi's opens a huge variety of high quality sounds.

2 BIAB has thousands of styles so it should not surprise anyone that they have a good selection of Orchestral Styles. Here is a listing of 83 which are all essentially Real Styles. But when they have RT transcriptions as many do, see point #1 above.

These two points have been a focus area for me over the past year or two. I only wish I had some good examples of their applications to illustrate these point. But that is another sad story.


Although quite a few of the 83 Orchestral styles are good most of them still use the same Realtracks and Midi tracks.
Up until I upgraded to BIAB 2020 there have been no more Orchestral styles added since 2017
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#665630 - 07/25/21 11:44 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Biab 2021 [Re: 90 dB]
Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 10995
Loc: GA USA
Janice & Bud Offline
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Posts: 10995
Loc: GA USA
Originally Posted By: 90 dB
Originally Posted By: Janice & Bud
This is perhaps off topic but then maybe …

I find the DI option extremely helpful on many rhythm and solo guitar RTs. Once rendered DI I can then apply one of Logic’s many amps; mics and cabinets for a much different sound than the original RT. And when using DI it is easier comping different RTs as you get the same tone, etc. on your track. FWIW.

Bud



While that is true, it still doesn't address the problem of overplaying. Everything is played way over the top, as a "solo". No finesse.


Regards,

Bob


Another old guy FWIW smile

Bob,

When I was using a lot of RT guitar solos I used to create a separate SGU with only repeats of the solo chords and then regen and render the solo RT (set on simple and DI). When brought into the DAW I would have as many as a dozen options for the the solo. Frequently but not always I managed to find a mellow one either standalone or by comping. But as we all know some insist on playing virtually the same thing even with repeated regens. Heck, sometimes I'd alter the chords in the solo just to get something more like I was looking for. Regardless no disagreements -- just musing over how I tried to work through it.

Bud
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#665635 - 07/25/21 12:08 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Biab 2021 [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 5055
Loc: Florida
90 dB Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 5055
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Janice & Bud
Originally Posted By: 90 dB
Originally Posted By: Janice & Bud
This is perhaps off topic but then maybe …

I find the DI option extremely helpful on many rhythm and solo guitar RTs. Once rendered DI I can then apply one of Logic’s many amps; mics and cabinets for a much different sound than the original RT. And when using DI it is easier comping different RTs as you get the same tone, etc. on your track. FWIW.

Bud



While that is true, it still doesn't address the problem of overplaying. Everything is played way over the top, as a "solo". No finesse.


Regards,

Bob


Another old guy FWIW smile

Bob,

When I was using a lot of RT guitar solos I used to create a separate SGU with only repeats of the solo chords and then regen and render the solo RT (set on simple and DI). When brought into the DAW I would have as many as a dozen options for the the solo. Frequently but not always I managed to find a mellow one either standalone or by comping. But as we all know some insist on playing virtually the same thing even with repeated regens. Heck, sometimes I'd alter the chords in the solo just to get something more like I was looking for. Regardless no disagreements -- just musing over how I tried to work through it.

Bud



Simple and DI don't cut it for what I'm talking about man. It's still just a simple, DI'd OVERPLAYED lick. I'm talking about Red Shea, Terry Clements, Steve Goodman accompaniment licks. Finesse...sweetness.


Regards,

Bob

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#665640 - 07/25/21 12:17 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Biab 2021 [Re: beatmaster]
Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 6755
Loc: South Carolina
Charlie Fogle Offline
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Loc: South Carolina
[Eddie1261] "There seems to be a difference between what the 2 (RB and BIAB) can create for soloing.(Someone who has used both please correct me on that if it is not correct.)"

You're absolutely correct. The BIAB Plug-in can also be included. Neither RB or the Plug-in are fully functional BIAB programs. Both, at best when it comes to being BIAB, are BIAB lite.

The issue between RB, BIAB Plug-in and BIAB is not with content, they all use the same content, it's functionality. Most of the functionality lost between the two lite programs and the fully functional BIAB however involves how that content can be programed and manipulated. So in your case where you don't use BIAB at all, you fail to get any of the benefits, advantages, diversity and sometimes exclusive uniqueness of BIAB that no other software program including RB and the Plug-in can access.

My point is solely to answer your comment above. No disagreement to the fact I fully support both the requests for more content, new content and new artists. That said, I think some of the staleness you and others find in current BIAB/RB RT content is due to the lack of accessing many features that's exclusive only to BIAB.
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Here is Part 1/2: Band-in-a-Box® 2022 Boot Camp: An introduction to 10 major features and new RealTracks!

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Band-in-a-Box® 2022 for Windows is here! There are 50+ new features, 222 new RealTracks(20 more than we've released in previous versions), new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, Artist Performances, Xtra Styles PAK 12, New "playable RealTracks" Hi-Q sounds, 2 sets of "RealDrums Stems," and more!

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RealTracks Artist Pat Martino

We are saddened to hear of the passing of jazz guitar legend Pat Martino yesterday.

Pat was part of our RealTracks Artist "Jazz Pollwinners 2" series in 2014. You can learn about Pat and listen to his RealTracks contribution here.

Pat had been playing guitar since he was just 12 years old, and devoted himself to music in grade ten. On top of years of performing (he began playing professionally in 1961), Pat received many awards for his playing, including the "Jazz Legacy" Award in 2016 presented by Pennsylvania State Senator Vincent Hughes and his wife Sheryl Lee Ralph-Hughes.

Learn even more about Pat Martino when you visit his website, http://www.patmartino.com/.

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