I've been wanting to make a video for a long time about why 4/4 is so popular and why other odd signatures feel, well... odd! And is it a cultural/western thing, or is it innate to all humans? I've read about it being linked to humans being bipedal but then why does 3/4 also sound natural and non-odd? Any suggestions would be appreciated and I will be sure to credit you in my video. Thanks!
Bipedal implies walking. Usually when I work in odd times (5/4, 7/4, 11/8, etc.) I feel it more like riding a horse, where I am not really in control of the rhythm, just along for the ride. <grin> If it trots, gallops, or canters .. I am working WITH the pattern (not trying to control it), which is a lot of fun sometimes. I guess basically, for some, it is out of the comfort zone in a lot of ways, for both performer and listener.
If it's done really well the listener may not even notice, as shown in the video. 7/4 didn't stop these songs from working or being successful /MONEY being the obvious go to //I happen to love odd times and have the most fun writing/playing with them ///that's probably what makes me so odd
Last edited by rharv; 07/30/2101:36 PM.
Make your sound your own! .. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
I think people naturally feel things in 2s, 3s or 4s. I don't know why, but I do remember reading something about that many years ago.
When I sight-read something unfamiliar in 7/4 I'll subdivide it into 4+3 or 3+4 in my head. (1 2 3 4 1 2 3 for example).
When listening to Dave Brubeck/Paul Desmond's "Take 5" it is normal to feel 1 2 3 1 2, 1 2 3 1 2 - the same goes for other 5 songs like Jethro Tull's "Living In The Past" or the 5/4 "Waltz" in Tchaikovsky's 6th Symphony. I can't think of an example offhand, but 1 2 1 2 3 is a possibility depending on the way the song is written.
Interestingly for me, if I sight-read music in Cut Time, my head counts it in a "twice as fast" 4, so I don't have to make the switch for the half note getting a beat instead of the quarter note.
When sight-reading 6/8 signatures, I usually count in 2 or two 3's, depending on the speed and the nature of the music.
I have no opposition to unusual time signatures as long as it works for the song, whatever anyone does is OK with me.
I think people naturally feel things in 2s, 3s or 4s. I don't know why, but I do remember reading something about that many years ago.
When I sight-read something unfamiliar in 7/4 I'll subdivide it into 4+3 or 3+4 in my head. (1 2 3 4 1 2 3 for example).
When listening to Dave Brubeck/Paul Desmond's "Take 5" it is normal to feel 1 2 3 1 2, 1 2 3 1 2 - the same goes for other 5 songs like Jethro Tull's "Living In The Past" or the 5/4 "Waltz" in Tchaikovsky's 6th Symphony. I can't think of an example offhand, but 1 2 1 2 3 is a possibility depending on the way the song is written.
Interestingly for me, if I sight-read music in Cut Time, my head counts it in a "twice as fast" 4, so I don't have to make the switch for the half note getting a beat instead of the quarter note.
When sight-reading 6/8 signatures, I usually count in 2 or two 3's, depending on the speed and the nature of the music.
I have no opposition to unusual time signatures as long as it works for the song, whatever anyone does is OK with me.
Notes
Yes, I count all these the same way especially when reading the first time.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
I think people naturally feel things in 2s, 3s or 4s. I don't know why, but I do remember reading something about that many years ago.
When I sight-read something unfamiliar in 7/4 I'll subdivide it into 4+3 or 3+4 in my head. (1 2 3 4 1 2 3 for example).
When listening to Dave Brubeck/Paul Desmond's "Take 5" it is normal to feel 1 2 3 1 2, 1 2 3 1 2 - the same goes for other 5 songs like Jethro Tull's "Living In The Past" or the 5/4 "Waltz" in Tchaikovsky's 6th Symphony. I can't think of an example offhand, but 1 2 1 2 3 is a possibility depending on the way the song is written.
Interestingly for me, if I sight-read music in Cut Time, my head counts it in a "twice as fast" 4, so I don't have to make the switch for the half note getting a beat instead of the quarter note.
When sight-reading 6/8 signatures, I usually count in 2 or two 3's, depending on the speed and the nature of the music.
I have no opposition to unusual time signatures as long as it works for the song, whatever anyone does is OK with me.
Notes
Ditto, the same here.
It really doesn't matter how you keep time but it is very important that you do keep time!
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
I do the same thing when putting an odd time signature song into BiaB (as I'm sure many others do).
I'll consider each numbered 'slot' in the BiaB matrix a cell, instead of a bar/measure.
Then I use trusty F5 to change the number of beats.
So in 5/4 time, cell #1 might be 3 beats and cell #2 might be 2 beats, the two cells becoming one 5/4 bar. Continuing, Cell #3 will be 3 beats and cell #4 will be 2 beats. Continue as needed.
Using this kind of thinking, a waltz style cell might be half of a 6/8 bar, a 4 beat cell can be two 2/4 bars, an appropriate sw style can be two 6/8 bars or one 12/8 bar, and so on.
It's a way to get around the BiaB's non-support of various time signatures, and it works quite well, allowing us to use BiaB in ways it was not designed for when it was a DOS program, and it still remains back-compatible with the older versions.
I'm hoping that one day soon the chord chart will correctly support the number of beats required, just like music notation, and music manuscript does. If the bar is 5/4 or 6/4 or 7/4, then the chord chart should allow that without having to use multiple bars to achieve this.
Regarding:
Quote:
"It's a way to get around the BiaB's non-support of various time signatures".
I really think that we shouldn't still need to do that. Well before now the program should be able to handle this natively, surely.
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
I'm hoping that one day soon the chord chart will correctly support the number of beats required, just like music notation, and music manuscript does. If the bar is 5/4 or 6/4 or 7/4, then the chord chart should allow that without having to use multiple bars to achieve this.
I have been wanting that for years. I also want real n/8 time signatures supported. Bringing time signatures other than 2/4, 3/4, and 4/4 into a DAW is a real PITA.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
I think anyone who knows the difference between 12/8 and 6/8 or any time signature for that matter has wished BIAB worked differently. BIAB is what it is and will likely never adhere to standard notation. I get frustrated with BIAB because It does what it wants to do. I don't like uncommanded actions in software or airplanes...lol
As a guitar player time signature never seemed very important. I either could play the song or not. Sight reading for guitar is not real easy.
I never really understood time signature very well until I started messing around with Finale and also started playing piano.
Certain instruments just lend themselves to using sheet music and others do not. I am not sure I could play much of anything on a trumpet without sight reading it.
I use to write some songs in 5/4 on guitar. At the time I had no idea what I was doing until someone ask me why I was playing in 5/4. I don't know, that is just what came out.
There were things that never made any sense to me. Why would anyone write triplet music in 4/4. That is what we have 12/8 for. Then again, I have never been to school for music so what do I know?
Billy
Last edited by Planobilly; 08/01/2105:37 AM.
New location, new environment, new music coming soon
Seize the moo-ment If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo
FWIW (again) Realband crosses this gap You can actually work in 5/4, 7/4, 11/8, etc. much more intuitively than in BiaB. Not knocking Biab, but the solution is sitting there. RB comes with BiaB free (for Windows) They each have their own strengths and RB is much better at handling odd times, especially when considering the generating features .. or MIDI ..
I've done many odd time pieces in RB that I would never consider attempting in BiaB
Example 7/4 song with bass, drums, chunky rhythm,and keys all generated (rest was myself and other forum members) my point is; RB is much better in odd times utilizing the same RTs http://masteringmatters.com/stuff/Count_Me_Out.mp3 look at the beat markers in the main window .. 7 per bar
Make your sound your own! .. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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