Can the audio generated by band in a box be aligned? Because I find that it is always misaligned. There will be a problem if it is misaligned, that is, I want to intercept, cut and change the position. no way. How to solve it? Is there a forced alignment function?
You may not understand what I mean. What I generate is also perfectly aligned. When I say misalignment, I mean that the generated audio is not aligned with the line of Daw. In this case, I will encounter some problems in cutting, and sometimes I will cut off some beginning. Because I may have to cut and move back and forth, put the front in the back, and put the back in the front. Cut in Daw. I'm not saying BIAB generated misalignment.
Is the concern that notes "on" a beat will sometimes physically start a tiny bit BEFORE the beat?
If so, isn't this just partly the nature of the acoustic envelope, and partly the "humanity" of the music?
yes. hommization. That's what I mean. Because the melody rhythm of band in a box is very humanized. This is a good thing, but it makes cutting more troublesome, because the beginning is often cut off
Because the melody rhythm of band in a box is very humanized. This is a good thing, but it makes cutting more troublesome, because the beginning is often cut off
A major part of what makes Band-In-A-Box what it is, is that the RealTracks and some of the MIDI tracks were played by real human beings, with real touch and expression. If you remove that, you're removing part of what BIAB is trying to do.
Try making your cuts a beat or 1/16th or whatever earlier, cropping or fading-in the sound in your DAW. That's really where the DAW rules, whilst BIAB rules in accurately simulating/replication real musicians. Another possibility is to bring in that instrument several beats early and let it pick up the song before the start of the bar or section. Jazz musicians will often hold the notes of the their final bar of solo, so that the next soloist can have their own melody pick-up during that final bar.
BTW, I fully realise that English is not your first language, so the following is for information or clarification and is definitely not a criticism: "humanized" means that the application is adding some small amounts of variation to note timing or velocity/volume in an attempt to make a previously quantized MIDI track sound a bit more like it was played by a human ... I think that rarely works.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
Because the melody rhythm of band in a box is very humanized. This is a good thing, but it makes cutting more troublesome, because the beginning is often cut off
A major part of what makes Band-In-A-Box what it is, is that the RealTracks and some of the MIDI tracks were played by real human beings, with real touch and expression. If you remove that, you're removing part of what BIAB is trying to do.
Try making your cuts a beat or 1/16th or whatever earlier, cropping or fading-in the sound in your DAW. That's really where the DAW rules, whilst BIAB rules in accurately simulating/replication real musicians. Another possibility is to bring in that instrument several beats early and let it pick up the song before the start of the bar or section. Jazz musicians will often hold the notes of the their final bar of solo, so that the next soloist can have their own melody pick-up during that final bar.
BTW, I fully realise that English is not your first language, so the following is for information or clarification and is definitely not a criticism: "humanized" means that the application is adding some small amounts of variation to note timing or velocity/volume in an attempt to make a previously quantized MIDI track sound a bit more like it was played by a human ... I think that rarely works.
well. Cutting in advance is the only way at present. I've tried, very effective!
I see several possibilities being hinted at here, so let me try to restate them to make sure they are clear:
Always allow some silence at the beginning of a song, so tracks can be aligned. Your first post shows a diagram that you are doing this correctly, but following text (cutting in advance, beginning is cut off) makes me wonder when you start talking about editing. It is perfectly normal working in a DAW to nudge individual tracks left or right. Some even have a keystroke that will do this. Some also have the function to snap all tracks to a point, although most of the time this is overkill.
The players, as mentioned by Gordon and Mark, may often start early and this does NOT mean the music is misaligned. In BIAB, the guitar very often strums early in a piece that has syncopation. And of course there is the drum lead-in, if you have it set for that. This was answered for you in another thread. You have to do each track alignment by ear if you want to make a change.
In general, I suggest in this and many other threads that you become more familiar with the tools and BIAB in particular by asking questions, but in those questions try to resist implying there is something wrong or a bug. Your statement that BIAB generates misaligned tracks is simply false. It is more likely just be a case of you learning the tools, or learning how to do things. I predict you will get more help if you do not start with a false premise. I do understand some of this stems from English not being your preferred language, and I respect that.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
The players, as mentioned by Gordon and Mark, may often start early and this does NOT mean the music is misaligned. In BIAB, the guitar very often strums early in a piece that has syncopation. And of course there is the drum lead-in, if you have it set for that.
Just to be clear myself, I wasn't thinking of things as drastic as a player hitting a chord a beat early, or playing some kind of a lead-in. I wasn't thinking of syncopation. I'm thinking of the kind of "misalignment" that will ALWAYS occur, even when the intent is to play perfectly in time. Sometimes, this will just be "flawed humanity", but often it's part of what I called the envelope of a sound. If you sing "hi, hi, hi, hi" in humanly perfect rhythm, in sync with an electronic metronome, you will still almost certainly find that the "attack" begins a bit before the beat as you begin exhaling and peaks a bit later as the tone takes on full strength. It's more than style, it's the nature of sound.
I'm a bit confused as to why you think the first shot is evidence of a problem. as many people have said above, a band playing live would not all hit beat 1 exactly on a DAW bar line.
your work flow might be causing problems if you need everything so precisely aligned that you can edit the finished song as precisely as you seem to want to.
if you create the song in the BIAB main program you can create an exact order of intro, verse, refrain, solo or whatever. your song format won't need editing.
it is quite normal to cut and paste bits of a solo - or make up a complete solo from various different RealTrack 'takes' that you like or replace a certain phrase in a part - say the piano - that you don't like as much as a phrase elsewhere. but if you get the song format right in BIAB that's all you would need to do.
and with visible audio wave forms you can do that easily without being confined to precise bar lines or tick positions. the visible audio wave form shows you what bits will fit together nicely. you seem to want surgical mathematical 'by the numbers' editing and music played by real people doesn't work exactly like that.
rather than the plugin have you tried creating your song in the main BIAB program? if you get the format and order right there you can then use the DAW to finalise things not move audio about wholesale.
Bob, I think from other threads that the OP prefers to use the plug-in and understands it does not have all the features of the stand-alone program. That’s a choice.
Mark, good clarification. Even without any kind of lead-in or syncopation, actual musicians don’t line up. Agreed. I actually was citing common examples where BIAB intentionally produces good-sounding performances where the musicians do not enter at the same instant. Both points are valid and are examples disproving the ‘misaligned’ concept.
To all: In fact, it’s a human judgement call precisely where a sound does begin. You can’t quite tell just by looking at a waveform.
So, the answer to the original question “Can the generated audio be aligned” is Yes; this is best done during mixing and is best done by a human.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Took a look, didn't watch anything, not sure I understand what you're saying can be done. How does quantization "fix" the "misalignment problem"? Are we talking about actually sliding notes around to "force align" them? What would this do to the example provided?
If you are cutting/pasting you can quantize it then when you have it how you like you can advance it.
So, we are talking about actually altering the audio of the performances, altering the timings, NOT because it sounds better, but to make it easier to cut and paste?
This strikes me as like having a photographic filter that aligns all the objects in the image to a grid, to make it easier to move them around later.
Unless the quantization is temporary and "non-destructive", functioning only to modify the behavior of selection tools?
Most operations on audio in a DAW are non-destructive, which is one of the great things about using one. It's usually in a stereo audio editor that you alter the actual file (after you made a backup, of course). But I still think quantization, or snapping to a grid, is not the solution requested here. In fact, I think the problem is one of understanding.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
To clarify: in my question, I meant "non-destructive" in the sense that the "quantize" operations wouldn't modify the material being worked with in the editor, but would just "intelligently" adjust the boundaries of a selection or the point where it gets pasted. I didn't mean it in the sense of "no permanent changes to the underlying material". Probably not the best term but not sure how else to put it. "Smart" editing, I guess (though I'm tired of everything being "smart".) "Magnetic", maybe.
The users wants to cut n paste without chopping the beginning of the note off, this will allow that. Reaper has non destructive editing, I haven't used S1 enough to know what it does but I assume it would be the same. It is easy to script it up in Reaper to do what you want but S1 you are a bit more limited. I did it in Reaper to allow the sustain to bleed into the next bar after cut n paste.
The users wants to cut n paste without chopping the beginning of the note off, this will allow that. Reaper has non destructive editing, I haven't used S1 enough to know what it does but I assume it would be the same. It is easy to script it up in Reaper to do what you want but S1 you are a bit more limited. I did it in Reaper to allow the sustain to bleed into the next bar after cut n paste.
You gave me a hint. You can cut it normally according to Daw (cut off the beginning) But paste it to the position you need, and then drag the beginning forward to solve the problem. very nice! Your message gave me a good inspiration!
I can do it manually in Reaper and I could also script it up.
Although we come from different places and different cultures But every time I express, you can understand what I mean And help me solve it. Great, I want to worship you as a teacher, ha ha
just to clarify, what i meant by looking at the waveform is that it does allow you to see exactly where and when notes start and end. which is exactly what the OP's first shot showed. i find that useful when i want to make sure i don't cut off the beginning or end of a phrase when it doesn't exactly line up with DAW bar lines.
nudging a phrase a few ticks so that it starts exactly on a bar line when that isn't what the musician played seems to me to be unnecessary and counterproductive.
i agree with Matt that your ears should be the judge not the minutiae of bar lines and i find the wave forms useful in achieving that. i use RB and have never found a problem cutting and pasting to create a composite solo or to correct a phrase i didn't like with one from elsewhere in the track.
just to clarify, what i meant by looking at the waveform is that it does allow you to see exactly where and when notes start and end. which is exactly what the OP's first shot showed. i find that useful when i want to make sure i don't cut off the beginning or end of a phrase when it doesn't exactly line up with DAW bar lines.
nudging a phrase a few ticks so that it starts exactly on a bar line when that isn't what the musician played seems to me to be unnecessary and counterproductive.
i agree with Matt that your ears should be the judge not the minutiae of bar lines and i find the wave forms useful in achieving that. i use RB and have never found a problem cutting and pasting to create a composite solo or to correct a phrase i didn't like with one from elsewhere in the track.
I just answered a similar question about audio alignment in another thread post and provided instructions to how moving and aligning an Audio Track is done from BIAB using the Audio Editor and provided screenshots. This will work with the Audio Track or any Utility Track. Hope this helps.
As I understand this, swingbabymix's main interest at present is electronic dance music, which by its nature is mostly quantized, and most of the samples used are similarly quantized.
BIAB is a contrast to that. A large part of it's focus is in maintaining a human feel where possible.
My feeling is that swingbabymix likes the sound and feel of BIAB and wants to use that sound and feel in his/her dance music, is still adapting to the differences between EDM's and BIAB's approaches.
That means that, to keep that sound and feel, one has to accept that the editing will need management around the beats, with we are mostly familiar, but which are as yet unfamiliar to swingbabymix. That familiarity will come, I'm sure.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
As I understand this, swingbabymix's main interest at present is electronic dance music, which by its nature is mostly quantized, and most of the samples used are similarly quantized.
BIAB is a contrast to that. A large part of it's focus is in maintaining a human feel where possible.
My feeling is that swingbabymix likes the sound and feel of BIAB and wants to use that sound and feel in his/her dance music, is still adapting to the differences between EDM's and BIAB's approaches.
That means that, to keep that sound and feel, one has to accept that the editing will need management around the beats, with we are mostly familiar, but which are as yet unfamiliar to swingbabymix. That familiarity will come, I'm sure.
yes. Electronic music feels mechanical and cold. Use BIAB to add some guitars and traditional instruments to make the music more natural! It's like I invited a guitarist, a keyboard player, to help me play a paragraph. Perfect! Of course, I hope BIAB itself can also join the style of electronic music, which will enable BIAB to win the support of more young people. In fact, electronic music may be simpler because no one needs to play it. Editing some commonly used styles can edit various electronic music through the core technology of BIAB software, which is a great and happy thing. Although BIAB is a long-standing Music software. However, I hope more people know about BIAB. In my recent use, I like BIAB more and more BIAB is an undervalued Music software. It's amazing!
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