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#677812 - 10/14/21 02:00 PM [Off-Topic] Crazy Man, with Crazy Ideas
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Pipeline Offline
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My question is does PG Development have to stay in the past because of older users with older hardware, can there be new and old ?
The idea that the Biab VST Plugin has to be held back from new users in a professional studio enviroment in case older users want to use it in PowerTracks only is ludicrous.

I'm tired of setting the DeLorean back 20 years to come here and be thought of a crazy man with crazy ideas.
I put so many ideas forward here but it seems like PG is worried about old users on old hardware, YET the hardware needed to run Biab is stated:
Quote:
Band-in-a-Box runs on Windows 7 / 8 / 8.1 / 10 (32 or 64-bit) and require at least a 1.0 GHz processor (2GHz+ multicore recommended). Basic MIDI features require a less powerful computer than the latest RealTracks features. For best performance, we recommend a fairly up-to-date computer with Windows 7 or higher, a fast processor, and at least 2GB RAM
but Reaper will still run on XP
Quote:
REAPER supports all Windows versions from Windows XP to Windows 10.
this is XP playing RealTracks/Drums Direct from USB 2.0 hard drive generated up INSTANTLY and any section regenerated, that PG is scared to do because of older users with PowerTracks:


The editing in Biab and RealBand is still destructive editing out of the 90's whereas most DAW's now user NON Destructive editing so you aren't creating new wav files all the time filling up the hard drive.




The BiabVST Plugin needs to call on bbw4 running in the background to generate up the chosen RT/RD source file sections then write them together into RAM then render them down to a wav file on the hard drive, this is why there is so much time waiting !
If it can't all be done in the actual BiabVST dll at the moment this way here will work to give Instant Gen and Play rather that the long wait of selecting parts, generating to RAM, rendering to more WAV's, JUST PLAY THEM DIRECT:




This is EnergyXY 1.4 32bit VSTi 2005 in Reaper playing all the RealTracks/Drums random sections the same way the BiabVST Plugin could work:





There is a whole new world, GET INTO IT PG I can't fit you all in my DeLorean!
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#677822 - 10/14/21 03:15 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Crazy Man, with Crazy Ideas [Re: Pipeline]
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Seems it will be a significant quality jump on how tracks are handled.
While I see several BIG wish / requests that I consider important that are not fulfilled yet, I believe there should be more thought given to consolidation and internal optimization of BIAB. What pipeline is proposing makes perfect sense. At least on his model. Perhaps PG can make some kind of fast and dirty alpha / raw test version for those testers who are "not afraid" and willing to experiment?

If it can work as pipeline describing, it could speed everything up significantly and of course less file cluttering and possibly less tax on CPU.

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#677826 - 10/14/21 04:08 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Crazy Man, with Crazy Ideas [Re: Pipeline]
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I agree!

I think that PGMusic is trapped in old code with many band-aids. Thus they have put their emphasis on RTs, their cash cow, hoping users will use them verbatim. They are way behind in MIDI and are on a losing pace with audio, i.e. loops and loops programs are very popular again. Plus many users, at least in my opinion, are looking for more audio manipulation, i.e. cutting and pasting within BiaB/RB.

I have been asking for a complete rewrite for many years now.

YMMV
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#677831 - 10/14/21 05:09 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Crazy Man, with Crazy Ideas [Re: MarioD]
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pghboemike Offline
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has beta testing for biab 2022 started yet?
maybe there's still time for new ideas of that new alfa version
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#677835 - 10/14/21 05:49 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Crazy Man, with Crazy Ideas [Re: Pipeline]
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Pipeline Offline
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No Alpha, no Beta testing yet, usually late Nov.
That is it there is no "Alpha" development input just Beta with a few days to test for bugs, not how it works and what needs improving, so it goes public and Dec Jan... are spent fixing.
Yes, with midi it is generated instantly the audio tracks could work the same way.

The BiabVST should be Instant Gen/Play and Biab main app sync to any DAW when you need to Gen up some extra tracks to fit best in your DAW session without render, drag, render, drag... filling up hard drive with WAV's, then these issues will all be solved once and for all:

Originally Posted By: Marty Ricciotti
...So right now I make tracks in BB then export.
When I need some more instruments I open BB again and then export more tracks.

I have the BB vst loaded in Reaper but I only use it their for the track settings and following the chords when I play along.
I don't like the way the BB vst needs to generate a set of tracks to your temp folder that you have to go and clean out.

But... this is a bit of a slow way to arrange....
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#677862 - 10/15/21 12:40 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Crazy Man, with Crazy Ideas [Re: Pipeline]
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Kevin Woolley Offline
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It would be really great if the PG Team could appoint some of us veteran and other users to assist with Alpha development. At the moment all we have is the wishlist, but not sure whether that is looked at for the next release.

I do feel that at some point PG music needs to go back to basics and sort out the old legacy features like 255 bars, 4 beats per bar for chord placement etc.


Kevin smile

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#677866 - 10/15/21 02:04 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Crazy Man, with Crazy Ideas [Re: Kevin Woolley]
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Pipeline Offline
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That's why I was trying to get them to get away from running bbw4 in the background for the BiabVST, if they did it all in the BiabVST dll they would get away from all the old limitations in bbw4 like the 255 bars, more chords per bar, real time signatures, real decimal tempo maps...
But in the main Biab app, as Mario said a total rewrite.


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#677871 - 10/15/21 03:13 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Crazy Man, with Crazy Ideas [Re: Pipeline]
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Pipeline Offline
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Also adding Instant Gen/Play in the BiabVST and getting away from bbw4 will allow all more than 255 bars, more chords per bar, real time signatures, real decimal tempo maps... will give the BiabVST Standalone so much potential as a proper Biab Lite ! it could generate and play quicker than main Biab app.



Down the track further it could look like EnergyXT 2.0 VST below that is 32bit also and has no problem playing RT RD direct.



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#677872 - 10/15/21 03:26 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Crazy Man, with Crazy Ideas [Re: Pipeline]
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It could even edit midi in it or add track FX:


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#677882 - 10/15/21 05:46 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Crazy Man, with Crazy Ideas [Re: Pipeline]
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justanoldmuso Offline
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Pipeline.
for the record i dont think your crazy.
i highly respect you...as i'm sure do lots of pg users.
i think your a great asset to these forums.

the one thing i will give pg, and why i also respect pg is they allow such open discourse of feature ideas as well as critiques on these forums.


happiness/respect
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#677883 - 10/15/21 06:08 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Crazy Man, with Crazy Ideas [Re: Pipeline]
Registered: 12/27/03
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Originally Posted By: Pipeline
That's why I was trying to get them to get away from running bbw4 in the background for the BiabVST, if they did it all in the BiabVST dll they would get away from all the old limitations in bbw4 like the 255 bars, more chords per bar, real time signatures, real decimal tempo maps...
But in the main Biab app, as Mario said a total rewrite.


If the BiaBVST did that I would stop using the main app and only use the VST. The VST would have everything that I have wanted in the main app for years.
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#677915 - 10/15/21 12:21 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Crazy Man, with Crazy Ideas [Re: Pipeline]
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Kevin Woolley Offline
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MarioD

Let's hope for the best. Sooner or later it might happen.


Kevin smile

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#677921 - 10/15/21 01:24 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Crazy Man, with Crazy Ideas [Re: MarioD]
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Pipeline Offline
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Originally Posted By: MarioD
...If the BiaBVST did that I would stop using the main app and only use the VST. The VST would have everything that I have wanted in the main app for years.

Exactly, I think most others would do the same.
Unless there is a total re-write, the main app can be left how it is for songwriting, practice, live backing....
The BiabVST will be the road ahead for instant session tracks and BiabVST Standalone (Biab Lite) with pans, basic FX would be a no brainer learning curve for anyone new.
Maybe a new name to get away from any bad experiences of Biab or BiabVST in the past ?
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#678053 - 10/16/21 03:15 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Crazy Man, with Crazy Ideas [Re: Pipeline]
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Bob Calver Offline
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just a word from a non-power user of BIAB. i'd be happy if BIAB 2022 just worked properly from day 1. build 844 for 2021 is correcting problems in month 10 of 2021.

and although another thread suggests it's izotope's problem, i'd like my izotope plugins to work properly in RB the way they apparently do in BIAB.

i'd settle for the basics being worked out. the further BIAB gets pushed the more it seems to open the door for more problems.

i don't think you are crazy pipeline - your advice and help is one of the best features of these forums but you are miles ahead of most of us - well me anyway - and although PG programs are amazing and indispensable it would be nice if the basics got fixed first.


Edited by Bob Calver (10/16/21 03:25 PM)

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#678054 - 10/16/21 03:30 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Crazy Man, with Crazy Ideas [Re: Bob Calver]
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Pipeline Offline
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As mentioned I think you can only take Biab so far without a total re-write, it's keeps getting added to but still has the old 90's structure.
RB there is not too much goes into that these days, you can try using KV Element and just drag n drop the plugins into it.
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#678066 - 10/16/21 04:39 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Crazy Man, with Crazy Ideas [Re: Bob Calver]
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Pipeline Offline
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Tried it and saves fine:

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#678067 - 10/16/21 04:49 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Crazy Man, with Crazy Ideas [Re: Pipeline]
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Just curious Pipeline. How many addons and band aid programs do you use when you run Real Band? So many posts on here all go into "Okay then load this and drag this, and then stand on your left leg, rub your stomach and pat your head at the same time, and and and...."

I don't want to load ANYTHING other than Real Band. That's what I expect the software to be. There is no real reason we should have to jump through all these hoops of mixing and matching outside programs. I keep reminding myself that the home run here is that RB creates backing tracks and the DAW was a convenience inclusion, but man, can't one program do all these things all the addons you tells about allows it to do? I mean this stuff costs what to me is a lot of money, and I have to buy it again every year, like Apple makes the iPhone users do every couple of years.

"Ooooh yeah!! $1200 more dollars this year because the put the headphone jack on the BOTTOM!!!" (Back before they removed it...)

Seems like PG should charge like $49 when all they do is add more variations on a theme and call them new Real Tracks. By the same guys. There will come a point when I get "fixed incomed" out of upgrading every year when the new version just fixes some minute stuff that I never knew was there to start with.
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#678071 - 10/16/21 05:28 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Crazy Man, with Crazy Ideas [Re: eddie1261]
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"I don't want to load ANYTHING other than Real Band."
I wanted that also, I fought so hard for so long just like you:
"I think this is year 4 I have asked for this."
I found Reaper and don't use RB anymore as I don't need to with the BiabVST, there is a whole new world out there away from this little time warp.
When will a miracle happen and RB is totally re-written and made better than other DAW's ?
When money grows on trees
People live in peace
Everyone agrees

That's when !

Just buy Reaper once, use the BiabVST and don't go buy more RealTracks every year.
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#678073 - 10/16/21 05:33 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Crazy Man, with Crazy Ideas [Re: eddie1261]
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It's only loading 1 VST that you drag any vst into !!
With your multi Track FX Reaper has no problem with that, but I showed you a way to do that in RealBand using 1 vst also!!!
RB-FX-Sends.mp4 NO HOOPS !
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#678076 - 10/16/21 06:21 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Crazy Man, with Crazy Ideas [Re: Pipeline]
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Using Element you can see all the VST windows at the same time and use vst3 !



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Pat was part of our RealTracks Artist "Jazz Pollwinners 2" series in 2014. You can learn about Pat and listen to his RealTracks contribution here.

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