PG Music Home Forums General Discussion User Showcase Modern Pop Music Demo

Short Modern Pop Music Demo

Just over a minute in length, there's a lot packed into this instrumental.

The song consists of five sections, 17 tracks, 12 instruments, 3 Styles, 5 Real Synth Pads and a repeating chord progression.
Other instrumentation is one RT Bass, one RT Piano with held chords, Acoustic Guitar and three RealDrum tracks. There were also 4 tracks of PG Music special RealTrack 1152, Silence that is used for programming purposes by the BIAB algorithm.

Style is _BRONZE.STY (Bronze Acoustic Guitar R 'n' B)

RealTracks in style: 908:Bass, Electric, SmoothBallad Ev16 065
RealTracks in style: ~~2506:Piano, Electric, HeldChords 060
RealTracks in style: 1840:Synth Pad, PopModernGrooveMellow Ev16 075
RealTracks in style: 1945:Guitar, Acoustic, Rhythm GroovinFolk Ev 085
RealDrums [in style:RnBModernEv16^01-a:Kick, Clap , b:Kick, LightHiHat

*******************
Style is _CANDLE.STY (Candle Slow Dramatic Cloud Rap)

RealTracks in style: 1929:Synth, Bass, EuroDance VerseBass Ev 120
RealTracks in style: 1543:Synth Pad, PopBelieve Ev16 065
RealTracks in style: 2705:Synth, Rhythm CloudRapPercussive Ev16 075
RealTracks in style: 2308:Synth, Rhythm BubblegumPopPluckySynth Ev 140
RealDrums [in style:CloudRap^07-a:snare, echoes, perc, b:snare, claps and snaps

*******************

Style is SLOWSOUL.STY (Slow Soul - Smooth Jazz - Soulfu)

RealTracks in style: 1152:Silence
RealTracks in style: 1152:Silence
RealTracks in style: 1152:Silence
RealTracks in style: 1152:Silence
MIDI Drums :1 Standard Drum Kit (1)

RealDrums will be substituted :CountryEven16: a: Brushes b: Snare, HiHat

*******************

The song was composed after reviewing the 'Make BIAB more useful to contemporary songwriters' post in the PG Music Wishlists Forum.
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=645362#Post645362

Composition concepts were comprised from viewing and studying the techniques presented by Austin Hull videos on YouTube Make Pop Music series. Song construction followed his guidelines and structure. The song was composed entirely in BIAB for Windows 2021 Ultra + Pak using BIAB Styles, RealTracks, Midi instruments and RealDrums. Editing was completed solely using the Audio Editor and Mixing in the BIAB Mixer.

Enjoy and all comments and questions welcome.

Really well put together Charlie. It's got some great and very interesting variations, all delivered in one minute.

Well done.

yep, short and sweet, heck of an example what can be done with this marvel.

Cheers

Mike B.

I am intrigued. Can you say a little more about this?

Thanks for taking time to listen Trevor. I appreciate it.



Thanks Mike. There's quite a bit packed in that small package.

Hi Mark. I can tell you what I speculate and let you know if you use RT 1152-Silence as I think it works, it does respond as expected. I have no inside knowledge of the BIAB algorithm so only PG Music knows for sure why its used and how it works. But it works as I'll describe.

I have studied PG Music demos a lot and learned over time that PG Music developers and demo programmers used RT 1152 extensively. Also over time I continued to see comments by PG staff referring to the term, smooth transitions. If you listen to BIAB demos, you notice quickly they are quite advanced and complex. The instruments never begin or end abruptly, transitions of soloist instruments end without cutting off and solo instruments that play alternately will begin correctly. It's also noticeable when using the RealTrack Medley Maker, again RT 1152-Silence is used extensively.

You may or may not be aware of the RealTrack Medley Maker but it allows any of the original 7 Legacy BIAB Mixer channels to have up to 10 different RealTracks on each one. Users can program these tracks in various ways from the RT Medley Maker Window. RT Medley Maker Window is accessed by the Medley Button in the RealTracks picker or from the Bar Settings Menu.

The BIAB algorithm reads the Chord Chart to select the audio material it will play. It selects the chords, key signature, tempo and style. As you know, each time the Chord Chart is played over again, there are slight variations and unless a track is frozen, these variations will always occur. It creates realistic feel to the song. That the algorithm is reading ahead has a direct affect on what particular chord and audio phrase the algorithm chooses. As far as I can tell, BIAB does not randomly select chords. The algorithm is receiving instructions prior to selecting each and every chord and based the Chord Sheet programming input by the user as well as the Style, tempo and key, BIAB makes its audio selections. Audio phrases can be varying lengths I understand. BIAB can also make RealTrack selections from multiple RealTrack Audio Files. These factors allow BIAB to construct very complex arrangements and mixes that you hear in the demos.

PG Music advertises these demos are made by the BIAB program meaning these complex arrangements aren't being constructed by comping the tracks in a DAW. BIAB is doing them. So, for instance, in a demo the BIAB algorithm reads ahead and 'sees' a guitar soloist is ending at bar 19 as a soloist fiddle is beginning on bar 20, BIAB may choose to fade the guitar on bar 19 as well as simultaneously fading in the beginning fiddle soloist on the same bar. Several things have occurred in this bar. The two instruments can be occupying the same Legacy Channel and for that one bar, play simultaneously and at the same time BIAB will also select RealTrack audio for that bar's chord that's been recorded as an ending phrase audio while the second instrument audio is chosen from RealTrack audio where that bar's chord has been recorded as intro phrase audio.

I say all of the above to say that the BIAB algorithm uses RT 1152 as a place mat for the algorithm as it reads ahead on the Chord Sheet in it's RealTrack audio file selections for muting RealTrack instruments for various tasks in preference to using the mute function in the Bar Settings Window (F5). The obvious reason it's done is this allows the BIAB algorithm to 'see' the mute instruction prior to selecting RealTrack audio and thus select the appropriate phrase recorded and the phrase length that's best for the following bars such as intros, endings, cross fades, instruments transitioning between alternating solos, fade ins and fade outs among many other circumstances. PG Music programmers also utilize RT 1152 substantially with MultiStyles. It acts as a placeholder in lieu of the RT Medley Maker and allows multiple instruments to reside on the same Legacy Channel when changes occur between the MultiStyles. It's a very powerful and useful tool.

Using RT 1152 is instrumental in allowing the BIAB algorithm to react before selecting forthcoming RT audio rather than reacting to a Bar Settings mute command after it's already selected RealTrack audio for the affected bar or bars which can result in an abrupt, cut off intro or ending. In one instance, it's pre-audio selection and the other is post-audio selection.

RealTrack 1152-Silence is unique and exclusive to BIAB as far as I can tell. RT 1152 can be selected in RealBand and will cause the cursor to move forward on a track for the region of blank track highlighted but if you highlight existing RealTrack audio or Midi data, it does nothing. I assume since the BIAB VST DAW Plug in accesses BIAB data the same as RealBand, the VST will respond the same as RealBand which makes sense because there's no value to do this action in any DAW, including RealBand because RT 1152's function is a normal and manual function for a DAW.

Sorry to be so wordy but it's a fairly complex component of the BIAB programming.

Charlie

Charlie, I appreciate the explanation but as you might imagine I'm rather at a loss for words. Half the things you mention are unfamiliar to me.

Maybe conceptually it comes down a "plenum" architecture which treats silence as time-occupying matter, rather than just the absence of sound, hence the Track of Silence? A synchronous carrier of sorts, the musical ether that is the shape of musical time.

Now I'm thinking again, as I often do, of John Cage's 4'33".

I have wondered how it would be possible to do it in BIAB, in a way that involved BIAB being involved in a BIAB-like way. The movements are all silent, but the performer is instructed to pause between them, and to somehow behaviorally indicate the juncture to the audience. A clarinetist can do this by lowering the instrument, a pianist by removing their hands from the keyboard. How can BIAB?

Where the code meets the esoteric.
Cool piece of music Charlie - excellent explanation to...though I was reading it from five fathoms down. I now look forward to how Mark will use the spark.

Charlie,

This piece is very nicely packaged. Everything is so well balanced in the short duration.

Excellent!

Bob

Thank you Ray for the encouragement, and I hope you don't regret it.

I have to wonder how I might work this.

I need to distinguish, within a BIAB piece, between musical silence and non-musical silence. I could do it with UserTracks, which could contain a background of ambient noise, but now I really want to use 1152. In fact, "1152" is already the title I've settled on – this will be a brand new work, not just a tired retread of 4'33"!

PS – Done. https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=679199

Charlie,

A very pleasant sounding track. Good sounding mix.

(I've read your Silence explanation several times - and have to say "I don't get it". If it is so important to how PGMusic is making song demos, why is it such a "secret". Why don't they talk about it? or present a tutorial on how to use it. Perhaps you could provide an example of Using It versus Not Using It to demonstrate the difference. Perhaps put it in the Recording section so that it doesn't get "lost" in the Showcase)

I'm a fan of "modern, contemporary songwriter" styles/artists/songs.
I'm not a fan of trying to make BIAB do that specifically. It would take a VERY long discussion to explain the WHY of that. But, basically, I think people bought a car (BIAB) and now want it to be a boat or an airplane. Much of what "modern" is is all about the writing and how songs are sung. You can have the most "modern sounding" track you can find, but if you write like it's still 1978, it isn't going to sound "modern". I find it interesting that most (all?) of those people asking for BIAB to be a boat/airplane don't offer up examples of what they are currently producing. Do they get close to what they are asking for in other ways? Do they understand how "that sound" comes about? Watching Austin's videos ought to be enough to convince people that BIAB shouldn't work too hard to cover what he does. So much of it is one-shots or VERY short musical phrases - not to mention how much is about the vocals and how they are created and processed. BIAB should remain an alternative to going-into-the-studio-with studio-musicians and NOT an alternative to how-kids-produce-music-in-Ableton-using-loops-and-one-shots-and-synth-pads.
Sorry for the soapbox (I'm not a fan of folks doing that in other people's Showcase threads either)

Your BIAB knowledge continues to truly AMAZE me!!
You are to be commended on your attempts to persuade folks on how to create contemporary sounds/song using BIAB. Keep it up!!

<< If it is so important to how PGMusic is making song demos, why is it such a "secret". Why don't they talk about it? or present a tutorial on how to use it. >>

I can't speak for PG Music to why, but in my opinion, the simple answer to this is few if any users that post in the Users Showcase construct a song in a similar fashion to PG Music programmers constructing demos. It's certainly no secret though, people don't appear to be analyzing demos, the RealTrack Medley Maker and MultiStyle construction.

RT1152 was recognized and automatically inserted by BIAB to replace MIDI Tracks in the third style used. So, I mentioned RT1152:Silence because it's listed in my initial post of what RealTracks and RealStyles were used in the song's creation. I didn't input those 4 tracks, that came from embedded coding by BIAB and for me, worked to perfection and my complete satisfaction.

A finished Floyd Jane song is a great example of that. My guess is if you open the SGU file of "Wasted", it's not going to sound like the backing soundtrack music bed of "Wasted" we're hearing here in the User's Showcase. That SGU has none of the processing you added, comped and mixed in Studio One using the tracks generated from the SGU.

In comparison, select a RealStyle, load the demo and the demo that plays in that SGU will sound nearly identical to the demo of that RealStyle posted on the BIAB Windows or BIAB Mac Products page and in the YouTube releases of new RealStyles demos. The processing is embedded into the SGU. It's complete and finished and contained in the SGU.

"Modern Pop Music Demo" was conceived and constructed from discussions in other forum posts as a demonstration of what users are expressing are shortcomings or omissions of the current versions of BIAB to making current modern music. They are not looking at the program like most songwriters/arrangers/producers use it to write songs, they are looking for easily identifiable styles in their own unique location in the StylePicker that's void of any and all work arounds, comes with 4 chords, completely packaged, ready to play "current (updated by PG Staff on a monthly basis) hit modern songs" they can topline over.

In other words, PG Music Demos... but demos masked as Styles.

Point being, "Modern Pop Music Demo" was created using the elements of a PG Music demo style and also contains the elements of a modern pop music construction as outlined in Austin Hull Make Pop Music YouTube videos. I used BIAB rather than a DAW, MIDI and VSTi's.

RT1152:Silence is an element of PG Music Demos that's used extensively in the construction of the demos. It's a prominent RealTrack in the RealTrack Medley Maker. It's also a dominant element in MultiStyles. In my StylePicker, of 8,000 plus styles, nearly 1,000 are MultiStyles. Users overwhelmingly bypass MultiStyles and prefer to continue their construction, comping, blending, merging, cross fading, alternating soloists and other tasks that BIAB can do, they will do in a DAW.

I think it was Randy Travis who said "I couldn't go pop if you put a firecracker in my mouth."

We are, I suppose, the same BUT that simply means we don't have the skills to produce it ... It does not mean that we don't appreciate some of the modern music that we hear. floyd has introduced us to some great material.

But to be able to think within that genre and produce something like you have done is waaaaaay above our pay grades.

We admire what you did and how you did it...or at least the small part we understand.

This is a showcase on the showcase!

J&B

Very nice Charlie!! I have to check out that band!!! Take care. Greg

Hi Charlie.
This thread interests me because as an old guy (i'm 66) I am bored with the same old- same old in Biab. I am looking to take my music in new modern directions.
I have even got a new controller keyboard (m-audio oxygen pro 61)...Yeah .

Charlie Wrote <" The song was composed after reviewing the 'Make BIAB more useful to contemporary songwriters' post in the PG Music Wishlists Forum.
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=645362#Post645362>"

I just read Lazarus's post and agree with him 100%. I don't have the time or inclination to follow the entire thread but the gist of all this for myself is that biab needs to update and become more relevent or become "Bland in a box".
I have always, and continue , to love the Real People playing Real Instruments buisness model of biab, but unfortunatly that's not enough in todays "Hip Hop" (a wide generic term) world. Styles and RT's are easy to make so why is biab dragging the chain?

I have a library of my own particular favourite sounds that I made using biab's own usertrack template which are always "at hand" instead of having to search for endless thousands upon thousands of samples , patches ,plug ins and synth sounds . The purpose of said library is to have the perfect sound readily available when inspiration strikes. Question is : If I can make contemporary RT's (using biab's own template) , why can't biab? (Midi is another subject alltogether.)

I get Floyd's analogy of "people buying a car and expecting it to be a boat and/or an aeroplane" (not verbatim) but I would argue that simply adding contemporary Styles and RT's will not change your "car" but will only value add by increasing its user friendliness. Who wants a 10 year old drive without all the "bells and whistles" conectivity of a 2021 model?

Charlie Wrote <"Composition concepts were comprised from viewing and studying the techniques presented by Austin Hull videos">

Austin is a nice guy but his scatter gun videos are designed to sell his midi and plug in content and can leave one confused to say the least.

As an alternative may I suggest THIS GAL
She is all across ableton but most daws are similar

Thanks for allowing me into your thread Charlie.
I just don't want to see biab become Body In A Box
cheers
Gary.

Lol, I made it sound harder than it is. You can give it a try too. Thanks for posting your thoughts.


Thanks Bob. It didn't take long for me to put in what I know about modern pop.

Thanks for listening J&B. I always appreciate your support and opinions.


I'm sure I'd enjoy a modern pop song from you Greg. Thanks for taking to listen and comment.

Listened to this the other day but didn't have time to comment.

Very impressive, Charlie! Everything sounds great. Even more impressive is that you did everything from within BIAB.

Well done.

Charlie, you weren't kidding when you said there was a lot packed into this production! It was begging for another couple of minutes though! It sounds great! Thanks, Torrey

Hi Dave. Thanks for taking a listen and commenting.



Thank you Torrey. I gave some thought to doing a bit more work and developing a complete song but my modern pop skills leave a lot to be desired. This project was a short attempt of doing something in the style of songs listed in another thread that artists topline over music. I think I captured the style for the most part but not close enough to the mark to complete a song.

I appreciate you listening and taking time to comment.

Hi Gary. You can have a lot of fun experimenting with BIAB. You have the tools and hardware with your controller keyboard and the motivation and BIAB software suite to take your music into a modern direction.

My thinking about BIAB needing updating to stay relevant differs somewhat from yours. My point was to demonstrate that BIAB isn't bland and outdated at all. Just today forum member VideoTrack posted a link to a new sound library from Native Instruments re-introducing 25 of their classic synthesizers. There's likely not a song in the top 20 pop music charts today that doesn't include the sound of the Roland TR-808 Rhythm Composer. BIAB has that sound and likely most of the 25 synthesizers sounds too. Your ability to build your own library of unique and favorite sounds using UserTracks literally means that using BIAB in conjunction with your library makes BIAB as modern and updated as the caliber of your library. All that's needed to replicate, duplicate, create an 'in the style' of any of these songs that's been top ten for the last two years, is a MIDI file of that song and BIAB is able and ready to play it. Hip Hop, house, dance, EDM, Rap and similar genres, they are for all intent and purposes, completely MIDI based. BIAB has a tool to use a midi file to create a BIAB style from it.

For composition, in my opinion, all that's needed is the template folks like Austin Hull and Rachel Collier use to adapt them for use in BIAB.