An interesting video on YouTube discussing whether digital or analog is the better medium. This seems a real “chicken or the egg” type argument. I know it gets raised a lot. This video has an interesting slant on it.
I've argued for years that digital is better(*), but that the loudness wars and over-compression squeezes the life out of the music.
(*) The presenter in the OP video concludes they're "functionally the same". Well, more or less. Actually vinyl normally does introduce a tiny(!) amount of distortion that digital does not, but it tends towards 2nd harmonic which is "nice, warm" distortion that we perceive as a slight additional richness.
I make recordings of a jazz group of which I'm part. I sometimes use a little of compression on them, as the microphone pair is rarely in the ideal place. When I do, the band notice that the sound "isn't quite right".
Last edited by Gordon Scott; 11/03/2104:54 AM.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
I own a lot of vinyl and prefer the sound. Man do I love to sit on the couch and listen to Aja on the turntable. It is much "warmer" to me.
A few years ago I went to a high end audiophile store to get a new needle and a guy with white hair and a long pony tail came to help me. I told him I preferred vinyl and he proceeded to give me a 45 minute lecture that went something like this:
Of course you do! CDs are crap! Digital is crap!! Vinyl has 100 times more sonic information than a CD!!!! Why do you think they call it compact!! Because they compact it! In a musical garbage compactor!!
And so on.
45 minutes later I said thanks and walked out with my needle.
Not sure how much of that was actually scientific but that's what he said.
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
I still enjoy cassettes from the mid 70s, 7", 10" & 12" flat black plastic, CDs, FLAC & .WAV. I don't really enjoy MP3 very much though some sound okay.
I mostly enjoy the message encoded in these formats and some of those messages ring out nicely regardless of the format.
The dynamic range of a "record" is fairly limited due to the noise floor but is helped a little by the RIAA in & out. MOST releases, with a decent M.E. and cutting engineer can be pretty good if the record remains clean & damage free. The end result dynamic range will depend on the content, the mixing and mastering. The sound is often lovely and is what my ears expect...I'm trained to like it. Source material is important though. I have a couple of LPs that are well pressed, almost noise free and are simply un-listenable - disregarding the musical content.
CDs, we didn't have much choice for 20 odd years. The machine stopped sending anything but CDs to the shops. The 1st batch, when they hadn't twigged they needed to change from the RIAA masters to format specific masters, weren't too flash. They weren't/aren't as indestructible as they were promised to be. The dynamic range is deliberate limited BUT with a much lower noise floor they can sound really fabulous. I was reading, today, an article that says the same "master" can be pressed to vinyl or CD. Yeah, it can but it'll sound off without the RIAA EQ reversed on the CD, (a bit like playing a standard cassette tape back on a player with the Dolby B encoder on but more so). CDs have the potential for greater dynamic range but we've all heard "loudness wars" releases that demonstrate that potential isn't always desired let alone achieved. Fortunately the unintended consequence of a variety of "streaming services" having different, yet similar, level requirements and have punitive compression/processing for any variance from it has meant home recorders and meathead mixers have been lead by the nose to leave some headroom and dynamics in their "mastered" works. Mind you I've heard some LUFS compliant stuff that's still brick walled - it's just that the top of the wall is lower.
All of that said: if I have the LP I'm more inclined to play it than the CD IF I have the time to sit & listen. My little D.A.P. gets a lot of use and my "Walkman" gets occasional use. The "Discman" is rarely pulled out and I don't have a truly portable turntable.
The Dead Kennedys were right when it comes to casual listening.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
I'm all for digital myself, given the preference. Mainly it's because I just don't have enough physical space to house a large record collection, nor do I have the money when new vinyl is $30-40 vs a download is $10-15.
One of the main factors is whether the album was properly mastered for vinyl - a lot of music done today is recorded and mastered digitally before the vinyl is even thought about, so the vinyl is cut from the digital version, sometimes pre-limiter but not always.
The resurgence of flat black plastic has brought a LOT of shonky traders with it. I've had about four badly buckled LPs delivered...all packaged REALLY well and no evidence of postal damage...they were warped from the factory of distribution points...a further couple have had BAD pops n crackles. For the most part I've had good pressings and QC over the last five years. Once it settles into some sort of regular, non trend, production system things should improve. At present it's a very few machines producing around the clock to capitalize on the trend/fad. Packing LPs and CDs took me ages for my move earlier this year. The LPs are unpacked, in their safe places and being played. The CDs are half done...the storage is problematic in this new place - 1000 or so to go once I reassemble the shelving.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Folks, I have a problem that I hope you can help me with.
I have been collecting vinyl from deceased relatives for ages.
My step mother was a 3 cigarettes at a time smoker. (Not kidding. She died at the age of 59 from ages of smoking.) Her vinyl seems to have a nicotine coating that doesn't come off with the D4 cleaner I use for everything else. Records from non-smokers play fine.
I think you could probably gently clean your vinyl with just plain soap and warm water and a lint free cloth, I don't think it would damage it. And then use your D4 cleaner to remove any soap residue. Try it on one first I suppose to make sure.
I still have all of my vinyl going back to the 60's. Moved the collection more times than I can count! I don't play them much anymore to be honest, I keep them mainly because of the nostalgia. Although I do have a few that never were released as CD's, might be valuable I suppose.
After buying CD's on a regular basis as recently as last month I've finally got into the streaming thing with Spotify. Very convenient to have a track playing in the house, then get in my car and the track starts playing again though the car's sound system right from where it left off. And man, what a selection of material! Sound is good enough for me, I don't notice a huge difference.
I’m curious as to the outcome of hard research (double blind studies) on the differences audiophiles can hear when it comes to all of the above. The same research applied to the perceived difference in amps and receivers would also be of interest. To date I’ve never seen such.
Us? We walk in the living room and tell Siri what play - same in both vehicles. Been that way for years. And in the spirit of disclosure our primary system is a Yamaha receiver, Yamaha sub and Polk Audio towers. KRK’s for the “studio” and Janice has AirPods. Oh, and there is a turntable for the primary system but is hasn’t been fired up for years.
Finally we have hundreds of vinyl albums in the basement. They include the first album I bought in 1959, all the original Beatles albums (including the butcher shop cover), psychedelia and blues from the 60’s, rock/blues rock from the 70’s and mostly ending around the advent of CDs. Also residing there is a large collection of blues 78’s from the 20’s - 40’s. Hmmm … maybe I oughta crank up the Victrola!
I think you could probably gently clean your vinyl with just plain soap and warm water and a lint free cloth, I don't think it would damage it.
I used to clean mine fairly regularly like that, using washing-up liquid, rinse well several time. I think one can't damage the vinyl by doing this, though if they're not rinsed well, I think detergent residues may well clog the stylus, which may then go on to do damage.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
I’m curious as to the outcome of hard research (double blind studies) on the differences audiophiles can hear when it comes to all of the above.
There's long been a difficulty with this, in that many audiophiles, if they don't get the outcome they expect, will proclaim that there must be something wrong with the experiments/tests.
I've had people claim that they can tell the difference between .wav and .flac, but if you decompress a .flac file to a .wav, you can then do a bit-for-bit comparison between the original and the wav->flac->wav copy and they are identical.
Not so with mp3, ogg-vorbis, et al. They definitely do degrade the sound, though at the highest quality compressions, most of us would struggle to hear the difference. At high-compression/low-data rates, most of us can tell the difference.
This is compounded by the fact that it can be demonstrated that some surprisingly subtle changes are detectable ... the effects of certain types of capacitors, for example.
The amount of care needed to set up a different-media comparison would be huge and it may well prove impossible to completely eliminate something like the RIAA equalisation effects from the comparison, which would invalidate the rest of the test.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
They say vinyl is so much richer and full but I haven't heard a real record play since probably the mid-90s, so I can't say. I can say that streaming songs I like on Youtube is very easy and I like the sound good enough. Once in a while I'll watch a record play in Youtube. There really was nothing like watching the disc spin round and round.
Last edited by jptjptjpt; 11/04/2111:12 AM. Reason: Corrected typos.
I’m curious as to the outcome of hard research (double blind studies) on the differences audiophiles can hear when it comes to all of the above. The same research applied to the perceived difference in amps and receivers would also be of interest. To date I’ve never seen such.
Bud
I have done numerous double blind studies involving the album Led Zeppelin II.
I am able to say without reservation that using a robust confidence level in a Chi Square test of significance I need to drop the needle and hear a substantial amount of noise, crackle and popping when the needle hits to render a respectable air punch when the opening riff of Whole Lotta Love Kicks in.
Also, I need to have the volume knob on the Pioneer amp turned all the way to the right because if I do not blow up the speakers, it just does not have the same effect.
I conducted these experiments numerous times at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
Here is another take that makes a whole lot of sense to me. Looking at many aspects there may be some differences in the way vinyl performs as compared to digital but why is the big thing. This guy talks a lot about compression and vinyl compared to digital. Goes on about loudness and the effects on the different media.
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we have hundreds of vinyl albums in the basement. They include the first album I bought in 1959, all the original Beatles albums (including the butcher shop cover), psychedelia and blues from the 60’s, rock/blues rock from the 70’s and mostly ending around the advent of CDs. Also residing there is a large collection of blues 78’s from the 20’s - 40’s. Hmmm … maybe I oughta crank up the Victrola!
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