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#684417 - 11/21/21 01:19 PM [User Showcase] NEW>>>>RETRO ODDBALL SONG.
Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1068
justanoldmuso Offline
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Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1068
SONG TITLE : "HT MAN" /"I GOT DEEP DOWN RHYTHM AND BLUES"
(please read back story before playing )

ARTIST : moi..ALF-L..(a lad from london (c) 2004)
**BEFORE PLAYING THE SONG PLEASE NOTE THE FOLLOWING.**
1. due to the variety of playback systems out there. watch your levels till comfortable with song...apologies if the listener hates the song. use earbuds if possible. i'm looking for heavy critique of the song...so blast away lol.
2. i like to sing in and experiment with many different vocal styles. this is one of them.
3. Crazy backstory of this song.
i thought , for a change i would throw an "oddball song" in the pg showcase forum for comment/critique..
that has given me aggro and haunted me for many years. its perfection has eluded me.
so be as brutal as you wish in your review.
this song of mine started as as an "experiment"...to show a friend that even tho' one doesnt have many bucks one can still get a song down. this song i purposely used totally junk gear.
of course in the intervening years, even the most budget gear has become pretty good.
you see my friend was useing lack of gear as a reason not to get his rather nice song ideas recorded.
THUS...this song started on a used old rented semi pro junker tape multitrak. then i moved it to pg powertraks. recently i moved the master to pg realband for some "tarting up".
the song is a sly look at how "tech" impacts peoples lives.
all traks/lyrics/vocs etc etc are mine, so blame me....as is the arrangement etc etc.
ive tried repeatedly and desperately to re-do the song useing big studio gear, but failed...
the song mocks me...every time i try a redo i lose the original sound picture i like.
i just dont like the results compared to this rough demo.
ie..the song came back to kick me in the proverbial...lol.
so i keep on returning to this rough demo original cos i like its "mojo" as well as how the vocals work/sit on the outtro. it also has this "hooky" feel to it i like. as well as how it bops along.
i literally go to bed humming the song, which tells me its got "something". feel free to disagree.
to say i used the ultra junkiest gear at the time to do this song is a gross understatement.
(includeing a dynamic mic transistor mic preamp i built for 5 buks .)
sigh....one issue with the song is cos i used tape originally its got drifting "fractional tempos" around "132.504" so the pg acw tells me.
i have tried repeatedly in biab and rb to add real drums/rt's , but everything drifts out of sync.
all the song needs really is some not too overt drums sitting subtly back in the mix.
so if anyone has any ideas how to add subtle rd's i'm all ears. given the fractional tempo problem/tape drift.
its just a retro song that i like the mojo of, and other people have told me same.
but maybe they were being nice..lol.
the chords are simple. if you hate it, fair enough , i'm a big 6 foot london lad and can take it...lol.
just be good enough to tell me why. any and all comments welcome.
be as brutal as you wish. i have a few songs like this that ive tried redoing useing the best big studio gear, only to once again be stymied and ditch the new version cos i liked the old demo version better that was done with junk gear.

HERE IS THE LINK TO THE SONG>>>>>(the original mojo rough demo)
https://soundcloud.com/user-302791555/htmanc04alf-l

HERE ARE THE LYRICS.
V1. 20secs.
i got those deep down rhythm & blues, i got the feelin' its bad news.
she went n turned her back on me, took her honey across the street.
hi tech man he came to town, took my woman and fooled ...all around.
V2. 49secs.
i got those deep down rhythm & blues, i got the feelin' ive been used.
she took my money across the street, i found them makin' lotsa heat.
hi tech man he came to town, took my life n turned..me upside down.
yes he did.
Rhythm break 1m18secs...."oooh"...
My daft Little Lead. 1m25secs.
V3. 1m39secs.
i went up to bed , turned my tv on, looked out my window, he was gone.
she banged on my door, but i couldnt care, tried to hit me up for some subway fare.
hi tech mans in another town, turning other lives like mine upside down...(sung twice)
OUTTRO. 2m18secs.
upside down..for fooling around,..for fooling around...yeah fooling around...
yeah fooling around...fooling around ....<<<<repeated.

i'm particularly interested in what people think of my vocs and the outtro.
..................................................................................................................
so there you have it. a song thats driven me nuts for too many moons.lol.
best to everyone. have a great year. whether you liked the song or not.
also an advanced merry xmas to all.
oldmuso


Edited by justanoldmuso (11/25/21 06:52 PM)
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#684575 - 11/22/21 05:52 AM [User Showcase] Re: NEW>>>>RETRO ODDBALL SONG. [Re: justanoldmuso]
Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 9659
Loc: Florida
floyd jane Offline
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Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 9659
Loc: Florida
om,

Catchy. Sort of Pop Punk.

Seems like you could do a BIAB version of this using some of the Punk RTs and RDs...

fj

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#684640 - 11/22/21 10:06 AM [User Showcase] Re: NEW>>>>RETRO ODDBALL SONG. [Re: justanoldmuso]
Registered: 12/08/11
Posts: 6139
Loc: Edmonton, Ab, Canada
Scott C Offline
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Registered: 12/08/11
Posts: 6139
Loc: Edmonton, Ab, Canada
Cool backtrack. Super vocal. Well done

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#684687 - 11/22/21 01:49 PM [User Showcase] Re: NEW>>>>RETRO ODDBALL SONG. [Re: Scott C]
Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1068
justanoldmuso Offline
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Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1068
Floyd and Scott C.
your comments have cheered me up tons/no end...cos ive been going thru lotsa medical check ups....which are a pain.
but i'm good...so i'm a happy lad.

i salute both of you for not only your talents but also your dedication to doing songs...cos as we all know it aint easy.
your comments are always welcome, bad review or good.

re redoing the song in biab...already tried more than a few times. its not biab's fault i failed to get the
HT MAN song redone properly.
the challenge being getting the right sound picture in the redo.
one issue with this song is the tempo map...ie subtle changes in tempo in the song..which the song needs instead of one fixed tempo throughout the song...ie like the original song posted. this winter i'm gonna have another go with the tempo variations.
one thing i like bout realband is it lets one have fractional tempos.

once again, thanks for your comments.
great happiness to you both.
have a lovely xmas.
om



Edited by justanoldmuso (11/22/21 01:51 PM)
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#684692 - 11/22/21 02:13 PM [User Showcase] Re: NEW>>>>RETRO ODDBALL SONG. [Re: justanoldmuso]
Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 1474
Loc: Maryland
TuneMonger Online   content
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Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 1474
Loc: Maryland
good song, well sung, nice job all the way around.
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#684783 - 11/22/21 08:53 PM [User Showcase] Re: NEW>>>>RETRO ODDBALL SONG. [Re: justanoldmuso]
Registered: 12/29/12
Posts: 5627
Loc: Originally Missouri ... Now Al...
Al-David Offline
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Registered: 12/29/12
Posts: 5627
Loc: Originally Missouri ... Now Al...
om ...

Nice tune and delivery. Some BIAB backing tracks would be great! Thanks for a nice listen ...

Alan
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#684786 - 11/22/21 10:08 PM [User Showcase] Re: NEW>>>>RETRO ODDBALL SONG. [Re: justanoldmuso]
Registered: 04/13/16
Posts: 3596
Loc: Cooran Queensland Australia
rayc Offline
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Registered: 04/13/16
Posts: 3596
Loc: Cooran Queensland Australia
I've dragged old wobbly tempo songs from 4track tape machines or even stereo cassettes into BIAB. I take the tempo ACW determines then export the drum track and match it to the beginning of the song in Reaper. After that I snip & stretch or condense as required. It's a little time consuming but it works...
examples...
On this first one we recorded it to a drum machine track taht wandered. we then had a drummer play n it but he used so many ghost kick hits we junked it. BIAB resolved the problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G98c0WEW9Iw
On this one it was the same drum machine. the bass and cellos didn't cope with stretching so it was snip & stretch RealDrums again to keep it rolling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSdlRzAYgIQ
In this last one, same drum machine problem, I wanted to preserve the feel of the bass track so used BIAB for the drums and was able to leave almost everything intact after slip n sliding the drum parts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gS17OCGhDJc

Your song is fun but I don't like the effect on the lead...sounds like octave or doubling but weakens the guitar to my ears.
Do you REALLY have to do this sort of thing: "(ps..notice the sly subtlety of V3 regarding how hi tech moves on fast. ie next years model obsoletes this years model.)"?
I mean it's for the listener to determine if it's subtle or sly or not notice isn't it?
The outro worked fine.
Good song...spend the time in Reaper for the result you want.


Edited by rayc (11/22/21 10:15 PM)
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#684844 - 11/23/21 07:26 AM [User Showcase] Re: NEW>>>>RETRO ODDBALL SONG. [Re: rayc]
Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1068
justanoldmuso Offline
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Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1068
TuneMonger and Al David.
thankyou both for your kindness and listening and commenting.
its much appreciated.

fyi ive tried redoing the song useing different newer tech eg biab etc and big studio gear, but, as i said in the back story i simply cant get the original mojo of this version in alternatives. to quote monty python... 'it is wot it is'..lol. i might have to use a live session drummer from somewhere. but whether such might
give me the subtlety i want...its hit or miss.
interestingly enough ive had some success carefully renovating the original you heard in this thread in realband by carefull use of some tools etc in the realband vinyl plug in...eg declik.

in summary you win some you loose some.lol.
thanks once again.

Ray C.
thanks for listening and commenting.
let me respond, as follows.
1. as one of the original tranche of reaps users and
a continuing fan boy since reaps market debut years ago,
and, like many others, an early contributor of feature ideas to the dev , of course i would try reaper. ive even tried redoing the song from scratch useing my fav combo
biab plus reaps plus rb.
but, sadly i loose the songs 'mojo' once again...and sound picture.
ive also tried the detailed reaper process you outlined.
SO....
2. what ive been doing is going back to the original
demo posted at the top of thread, and working carefully
with the acw in realband , because of the fractional tempo feature in realband that biab dont have.
but its laborious, cos every single bar has to be marked very very carefully, and the tempo map obtained.
its very detailed work, and like reaps ive failed several times. its cos i'm getting older..lol.

best to you ray.

om
ps nice femme vox on your waltz song.





Edited by justanoldmuso (11/23/21 07:34 AM)
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#685211 - 11/24/21 01:44 PM [User Showcase] Re: NEW>>>>RETRO ODDBALL SONG. [Re: justanoldmuso]
Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 10962
Loc: GA USA
Janice & Bud Offline
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Nice engaging tune.

I don't know what DAW you use or its capabilities so this is a big ole FWIW.

In my DAW (Logic Pro X) you can make any track the "Groove Track" and lock others to follow it.
Typically as expected the groove track is drums and it works amazingly well.

I would assume any of the major DAWs have a similar feature.

Bud
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#685232 - 11/24/21 03:11 PM [User Showcase] Re: NEW>>>>RETRO ODDBALL SONG. [Re: justanoldmuso]
Registered: 04/13/16
Posts: 3596
Loc: Cooran Queensland Australia
rayc Offline
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Registered: 04/13/16
Posts: 3596
Loc: Cooran Queensland Australia
Yep,
replacing with clean new parts can often remove the mojo and when that's clear it becomes archive and enjoy time.
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rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Pop on over to The Recording Rebels for positive, honest commentary, critiques and support. https://therecordingrebels.com

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#685243 - 11/24/21 04:03 PM [User Showcase] Re: NEW>>>>RETRO ODDBALL SONG. [Re: rayc]
Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1068
justanoldmuso Offline
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Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1068
Bud.
thanks for listening/comments.
your very kind.

fyi..one of the reasons i posted the song was as a check on friends who seemed to like it. but the concern is of course maybe they were just being nice.
i felt justified in posting the song as i have used pg realband to bring it back to life as it were,...
so its cheering to find people here also seem to like it.
the hilarity of it all is my own stupidity at the time i did the song in not saveing the individual traks.
cos i was busy at the time in a studio doing other stuff
which had priority.

as to logic x groove trak. yes thats a "groovy feature".
even tho' i'm on pc i DO try and keep up with offerings
on the apple platform.
haveing studied the groove feature in you tube in detail and as the tempo of HT Man drifts with fractional tempos,
probably one would have to do the following...
correct me if i'm wrong mate.
1.load the song into a logic stereo trak.
2.lay down a bass trak on a seperate trak in logic.
ie playing along with song.
3.useing the bass groove as tempo guide for the drum trak. am i right ?

bud, the way i hear the drums in my head in the sound picture is very covert and subtle down low without a kik, as the kik is already there. feel free to disagree.


best to you.
om



Edited by justanoldmuso (11/24/21 04:05 PM)
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#685422 - 11/25/21 10:54 AM [User Showcase] Re: NEW>>>>RETRO ODDBALL SONG. [Re: justanoldmuso]
Registered: 10/21/21
Posts: 145
Loc: Versmold - GERMANY
PROJECT M Offline
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Registered: 10/21/21
Posts: 145
Loc: Versmold - GERMANY
Hello om
The song has a really cool sound
I like it really well
Was fun to listen to it
Many greetings
Andi ;-)

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#685505 - 11/25/21 06:55 PM [User Showcase] Re: NEW>>>>RETRO ODDBALL SONG. [Re: PROJECT M]
Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1068
justanoldmuso Offline
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Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1068
Andi.
many thanks for listening.
every happiness with your song projects.
best
om
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#685523 - Yesterday at 12:34 AM [User Showcase] Re: NEW>>>>RETRO ODDBALL SONG. [Re: justanoldmuso]
Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 4433
Loc: Sacramento, California
dcuny Offline
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Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 4433
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Nice song - I enjoyed listening! smile


Some years ago, I had a number of songs my church choir had recorded, and I decided to embellish them with BiaB. There are two approaches, and they're both tedious.

The key is time stretching the audio to make it fit. You either stretch the existing audio to fit the BiaB track so it's on exact tempo, or you can stretch the backing tracks so they match the tempo of the original recording.

Depending on the amount of tempo drift, this could involve stretching at the measure level, or even at the beat level.

In Reaper, the are Stretch Markers that make this really easy to snap the audio to a grid. The other route is doable, but a bit more difficult, as you have to align the markers to the original audio instead of the grid.

Again, it's tedious, but it's certainly doable.
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Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?

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#685596 - Yesterday at 08:55 AM [User Showcase] Re: NEW>>>>RETRO ODDBALL SONG. [Re: dcuny]
Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1068
justanoldmuso Offline
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Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1068
dcuny.
thanks for your kind comments on the song.

Re..."tedious methods" for adding new traks eg rd/rt's
to old originally tape based songs that fluctuate in tempos/have tape drift etc.

you nailed the problems. brilliant comment and kudos to you. i salute you.

frankly i dont think there is a perfect solution.
yes tedious/tons of work.
ive tried stretching/evening out tempos...but sometimes
things end up too robotic.
right now i'm going really deep into the acw in realband.
ie putting in the bar markers etc 'accurately'.
one thing that helps is in trak view i can slow the song down so i can certify the bar markers i set in the acw
are 'indeed' in proper time spots....together with zooming in of course.

yes ive been a reaps user since its inception.
love it, but also love rb and biab.

thanks again.
best
om



Edited by justanoldmuso (Yesterday at 08:57 AM)
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#685797 - Today at 05:37 AM [User Showcase] Re: NEW>>>>RETRO ODDBALL SONG. [Re: justanoldmuso]
Registered: 05/27/19
Posts: 1354
Loc: Dallas, PA, USA
BabuMusic Offline
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Registered: 05/27/19
Posts: 1354
Loc: Dallas, PA, USA
Hey, Om! I, too, would like to hear some of the failures with BiaB because... well, this is the BiaB forum. This is a good song and deserves to be heard. The guitar sound didn't really bother me because it fit the song so well, but I understand what Ray means, too. The vocals sounded good, and this is a really good song.
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#685815 - Today at 07:11 AM [User Showcase] Re: NEW>>>>RETRO ODDBALL SONG. [Re: BabuMusic]
Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1068
justanoldmuso Offline
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Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1068
Babu.
thanks for listening.
to clarify...i only want to add a subtle pg rd to this song. my ineptitude at useing the acw is at fault rather
than biab or rb or the acw. cos i have to get the acw fractional tempos and associated bar lines correct.
ive put a wish in the rb wishlist to have a slow down feature in the acw screen like there is in rb traks view.

best
om
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#685921 - Today at 04:42 PM [User Showcase] Re: NEW>>>>RETRO ODDBALL SONG. [Re: justanoldmuso]
Registered: 09/02/18
Posts: 1559
Loc: Virginia USA
Ezekiel's Storm Offline
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Registered: 09/02/18
Posts: 1559
Loc: Virginia USA
Nothing wrong with simple chords.

Catchy song. Sounds like an 80s number. Vocal sounds great.

My only criticism is that I would like it to have more bite, more edge in the guitar. Sounds a bit laid back. But it's your song, and your vision.

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