I am not using the VST3 a lot because it seems to be too much trouble for me.
I set up a "template" in Sonar and it was working fine, and also got it working in Cakewalk by Bandlab (which should be identical) after more fiddling.
Now it will not work.
I went back to the saved template where I finally got it to open a file and load a style and generate, but now, it just spins and spins, won't open a file, and won't allow to me select a style, which it did the last time I was in this template.
Is it just me?
I don't have the patience to sit for a few more hours to see what is up.
Do updates and upgrades and something on the PG server side affect the way it functions once you get it working???
Sorry if I sound cranky, but I don't get it.
Update/Edit: Well I kind of got it going. Had to start with a blank Sonar board. I did not change any settings, so it seems kinda hit or miss. It other words it seems very finicky, and I can't see a rhyme or reason for why it "acts up."
Anyway, I am just trying to create an extremely simple songwriter board that I can use as a canvas to compose on. If stuff is finicky it "breaks the spell" when you are trying to write and that is why I am trying to understand any and all glitches so I actually use it, instead of throwing up my hands.
I kept my second post intact because it has my screenshots.
Last edited by David Snyder; 11/27/2101:28 PM.
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
The screenshots give the settings I used and saved the last time I used it successfully, to open a file and generate. (This successful experiment was done maybe two weeks ago, or sooner.)
Now, after having changed NO settings int his template, it will not open a file, or allow me to select a style, even though I am getting no error message.
I did not notice all of these little aggravations in the first two generations of this plugin (if it had has been that long) only in the most recent one.
The last screenshot linked here simply shows that when I tried to open a new file, or load a new style it did nothing but return the loaded style with a blank chart in the key of G.
Again, I don't get it.
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
I'm in the same boat as you. The BIAB plugin will not sync in Cakewalk by Bandlab, at least not for me. I can add the plugin, I can import a song, but, 1. the drag-and-drop feature to set the tempo and show the chord progression in a midi channel does not work, and - more importantly - 2. Cakewalk will not play the BIAB chords. I'll get a "blurp" of the tracks and then nothing. It plays for the same length of time as the sound of the space bar being pressed.
The plugin USED to work with Cakewalk, but it definitely does not anymorre.
If you have issue try drag n drop the Biab VST3 into Element and remember to click the "EXT" in the top left to sync. Hopefully these issue will be fixed soon.
Have you guys tried the VST2 plugin? Even though the VST3 specification has been around for awhile my understanding is there are still enough slack in the specification that communication between DAW and plug-in is not as precise as it could be. I believe the VST2 specification is better understood and thus easier to implement.
Pipeline, sorry I don't know what Element is or why I would use it. I would rather know what something is by a descriptive link before going straight to the download.
Thanks man.
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
I found a workaround that might provide some clues.
I have to go to preferences each time I use it or change something to click OK (in preferences) and say "yes I would like to still use the same preferences I chose last time" and it will work for another session or half-session.
One thing I do not find intuitive is how to choose midi, let's say a super track, and have that play through the VST in a DAW. I see the cick box to do that, but no "after the click" choices to route that midi trick to the DAW.
Where do you do that??
Maybe it is in a previous post or manual part that I cannot find or have over looked.
Thanks if anyone knows how to do this.
To summarize, all I want to do is:
1) Open Cakewalk or Sonar
2) Choose BIAB VST3
3) Open an Existing Midi Style file
4) Select a Midi Super Track in the BIAB VST
5) Play the chords/music in said song on Super track only routed through DAW (on an assigned DAW track with a VST instrument loaded).
6) Be able to change the chords in said song in BIAB VST and play again. Just the midi.
Do If have to "regenerate"? If so how to regenerate just the midi without choosing another style, which is SEEMS to be asking me to do at the moment.
7) Learn how to do this quickly without watching a 4 hour video.
8) Is there some kind of a step by step somewhere????
MY GOAL:
For songwriting purposes, I want an EASY way to use BIAB with minimal instrumentation, probably just a piano super track, so I can fiddle with chords, INSIDE THE DAW, and then press PLAY, either with or without "Regenerating" (I don't want to go to .wav generation yet, only work in midi until the song is done.
I want to build this as a template so I can re-tool songs inside the VST as midi at lighting speed before I settle on tempo and chord progression.
So, that is why I am asking what I am asking.
My brains works best with step by step if it exists.
Thanks!!
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
Ok, so the closest I can get right now, is to select a file with a midi super track only in it, and render that, I think it says "All pages midi only" or something, which give me an export of 8 tracks, all blank except for one, which is defaulting to channel 8, even when I click one in the channel button, and if I drag it to the DAW I can now play it in a track I have set up with a piano VST.
But I cannot find a way to route it straight to the DAW without the 1.) regen and the 2.) drag and drop.
Can the drag and drop step be eliminated, or is this as close as it gets??
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
But I cannot find a way to route it straight to the DAW without the 1.) regen and the 2.) drag and drop.
Can the drag and drop step be eliminated, or is this as close as it gets??
The tracks need to be generated any time you load a new track or change a setting or chord in the plugin. Drag/drop is how the tracks get moved from the plugin to the DAW. there is not a faster button for this at the moment.
"Send MIDI to DAW" sends the MIDI track, in real time, to a seperate VST instrument. So you could send a SuperMIDI track that you generated to, say, the Cakewalk TruePianos plugin, for example. That way, you aren't limited to using whatever tone generator BIAB uses. If you want to use your own instrument directly from the BIAB plugin without having to import them into a track, this is a feature you'll want to turn on. It will stop generating audio in the BIAB channel, and send it as MIDI to your designated instrument.
When you generate it will create both wav and midi for essentially all tracks. No way to eliminate the .wav files except to just ignore them. When you close the VST window it should ask if you want to move the wav files into the project file (yes or no) if you answer no, it should delete them. That is how it works in Reaper. Can't speak to other DAWS.
So I see I am only half stupid, not all the way stupid.
Well, gee I wish there was a way they would just let you generate midi styles only (or midi tracks only) as midi, and not as a .wav, in milliseconds, like you can do in BIAB.
There would seem to be no reason not to allow that since the platform exists, right?
When I am sketching, I want to change chords and voicings and play back fast until I settle on a lead sheet. Then I can do a proper generation. Until them I don't need to wait for .wav files to gen. I just want instant midi which I am routing to Aria. (Like BIAB.)
Has anyone requested this for latter builds, if it does not already exist?
It certainly would be perfect for my workflow.
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
Only MIDI is generated, which should not be available for the time being. In fact, generating wav and MIDI at the same time will not waste a lot of time. I think the more important problem is that I'm not used to BIAB VST I started like this, use it every day, get used to it.
In fact, I'm not used to some places now. But BIAB is really easy to use.
David, I think the clean answer is that you have to generate the track, then you can decide whether to drag or not, and what to drag. If using a super midi track you can drag the midi or the created wave file. If you generate a RT you can drag the wave or the midi Real Charts. You can also sync the plugin to the daw and play it along with the existing DAW tracks. This works very well for me in both Cake, Studio one and Reaper.
Some of the issue here is that the plugin mimics Biab, which requires a generation to create tracks. The difference is that the plugin does not start playing prior to completing the generation.
if you sync the track you must click the play on the DAW not the plugin. Clicking the play button on the plugin plays the plugin. Clicking the play button on the DAW plays the DAW and the plugin in sync.
Another option is generating in BiaB and using BiaB’s built in the plugin feature to drag to the DAW.
The plugin is not perfect, but it is moving forward. As far as the 2022 version 4 it does have some of the new core features that are still under development due to focus being on the main program release. PG dev said these are being worked on and will be patched soon.
One last thought have you tried the chord builder feature in the plugin?
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
Here is my question, I am not sure I have received an answer.
In BIAB, if you have a midi only file, and you change chords and hit generate it takes .0005 seconds to get a new midi file and you are ready to play it through the VSTs you have set up.
It does NOT generate .wavs for midi tracks. (BIAB I mean. Unless you ask it to, in a song render. But not while generating or re-generating in a working session.)
In the VST3 it seems that it is impossible to do this, that even if you have a MIDI only file, and you change a chord or two and hit generate, it will also render .wavs, and it takes a while. Not a long time, but a while, and I do not need those .wavs.
I am routing through a VST player.
So, am I correct in that when you use the VST3, with midi files, it is impossible to do that without also generating a .wav??
If you CAN do it without generating a .wav, HOW do you do it, in the VST3.
Sorry!!!
Maybe I am dense.
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
No not dense at all. When BiaB generates it starts playing before the generation is actually done. It looks ahead and then starts as the process continues. The plugin does not do that because it’s prime directive is to create tracks to be used in the DAW for those who prefer to work there. Since you can’t drag until they are generated, it completes the generation first. The actual generation time to completion is similar in both the program and the VST3, you just don’t see it. One of the reasons for the early start during generation in BiaB is for those using it to play live they can run through the jukebox feature and and keep playing files as needed with out any delay.
As far as the wave files they are created as a convenience for those who might want to drag them, just as midi charts are created with the Real Tracks. When you generate Midi only you can ignore the wave files, when you generate RTs you can ignore the midi charts. They are there if you want them.
I hope that helps you to wrap the gray matter around the process.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
David, you seem to want a different answer. Sorry, you just need to use the .wav or ignore them cause they are there. But your suggestion is a good one. Others have suggested to minimize or eliminate the .wav generation and storage unless you pull to the DAW. It has been proposed to keep all the audio in RAM and not write to disk. This makes a lot of sense as it would speed things up. Maybe BAIB 2023?
There seems to be an apples and oranges thing going on here.
If I am in BIAB, and I am using midi tracks ONLY, and I change a few chords and hit generate it will NOT generate a .wav, only a new midi file, and it does so in a second.
In BIAB, you will only get the .wav file of a midi track if you RENDER it. That is, in BIAB there is a difference between generate and render as they apply to midi as far as I can tell.
Why is this important?
Because when I am fiddling with a song, and making numerous changes to the progression and such, I do not want to wait for the length of time it takes to generate a RT .wav or midi to .wav. So I will work in midi until I am ready to get .wavs.
But in the VST3 it seems I have NO CHOICE. I have to get the .wavs alongside the midi, even if I have a midi only style, and I have to wait, twiddling my thumbs, while it does so. And I have to go into my hard drive and erase all those .wav backups I will never use and never wanted in the first place, each time I generate.
So, what I am asking, as only an ask, is this:
Since the technology already exists, why can't I just get a midi generation in the VST just like it is possible in BIAB, without a .wav RENDER each time????
It makes the process much longer, and thus, will dissuade me from using the VST3 inside the DAW for very much because of this one quirk.
I will just say forget it, and work in BIAB, generate .wavs when I feel like it from BIAB, and drag them to the DAW when I am ready.
Ok, so be it.
But WHY can't I have the best of both worlds????
That is question I am asking.
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
David, you are not alone. I gave up working on MIDI songs while using the VST because of the must save wav feature(?). All it does is slow you down and load your HD with useless wavs.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
And from my new workflow vantage point, it would be a DREAM to have the simple midi/no .wav capability with the VST3 inside my DAW so I would have a one-stop show and never have to leave.
But now I have to leave.
Songwriters can be finicky, I know, but hey, aren't songwriters what BIAB is for?????
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
There is an option in the Render tab option to have a MIDI track that does not generate audio. It is disabled by default.
If that does not work, it may be a bug that can be fixed.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
David, Dan got me thinking about the MIDI only option so I did some experimentation. Would you verify this method for me.
1-Load the VSTi with a MIDI song 2-Under generate/custom click on all pages (MIDI only)
I am using BiaB 2021 and when I do the above the generation is almost simultaneously. Also only the tracks' mid files are saved in C:/bb/bbplugin. No audio tracks were generated. This is a game changer for me.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
I mentioned looking at the custom drop down, and also the no audio option. I wonder if the later is broken.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
Sorry Dave, you must feel like you stepped on a hornets nest with your simple question. So, ya the picture I posted is VST 4.0. In the past hour I have not been sucessful in playing only midi with no audio being generated. I have taken this to our develpers over in the beta forum and am asking them "what gives?". Will let you know when I know.
I just tried what Mario said in BiaB VST3 2021 on my Mac and it worked perfectly. It was immediate generation, and nothing but midi was generated. I also was able to drag and drop the midi as well. The point being that there is hope that we can figure out why your doesn't work.
Last edited by Rob Helms; 12/03/2102:40 PM.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
When I click all pages midi only, it still generates .wav files. ..................
That is weird! I just ran a couple more tests and each time it was a fast generation with no wavs being generated.
Note my tests were done with all MIDI styles. I just tried a test with a MIDI style that contained RT drums with MIDI charts. Using the same MIDI only method I got both wav and mid files of each track. Thus it appears that this method only works with pure MIDI styles.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Thank you for all the great feedback! It sounds like there is a bug in version 4 of the plugin to do with "midi only" generating (from the Custom... menu or the preferences setting) that did not exist in version 3. To be clear, the function of the "Midi Only" option in the Custom... menu is to not generate the audio files for MIDI-Only styles. If you tried generating a MIDI-Only style and saw that AUDIO RealCharts (.wav) files were generated, than this is a bug. I'll look into this issue and try to fix it for the next build.
Mario you need to weigh in on this question from Adar:
Quote:
If you have generated a MIDI-Only Style and you want to hear the actual midi played by a synth, then you will need to set that up in your DAW. The plugin actually does have an embedded synth, but it is currently only being used for previewing MIDI chords in the chord sheet and chord settings dialog. In most DAWs routing midi to a synth is a simple process of just adding the instrument after the BIAB plugin in the processing chain and making sure that the plugin is outputting midi to that instrument. Having said that, it would not be very difficult for me to add a preferences setting that routed all MIDI to the embedded synth (on windows its VSTSynthFont and on mac its Apple's DLS Music Device) if that is something that you would like to see. Let me know what you think!
I have strongly endorsed this idea from Adar and suggest you and others who understand what is being proposed here, second me if you can.
I personally have no use for a MIDI sound source in the VST because I have much better sounds for my DAW, i.e. I drag and drop my VST MIDI tracks into my DAW then delete the VST. HOWEVER I can see the benefit for those that need a VST sound source. If implemented it would be nice if it was an option.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Without the Midi synth in the VST every midi track needs to be routed to the DAW for use with an individual VST in order to hear the sounds. That means one for the drums, one for the guitar, one for the horn, one for the piano and on and on. The alternative would be to have a GM synth in you DAW, but that would still require routing of everything. If the VST had the GM synth, which is what Adar is proposing, then you only need to route those tracks which you need/want over in the DAW. I know you are a big midi user, so am I, but don't you use any audio RTs from BIAB in your DAW? I use both. I reserve the midi for those tracks which I want to customize both content and sound source. RTs do the rest of the fill.
The midi in BIAB that I want, I move directly to the DAW and set it up with my Sounds Sources, but I don't want to set up every midi track just so I can hear it. Would be much more convienent and faster to compose and construct the midi in the BIAB-VST with an internal Synth in the BIAB-VST and than when I get it right, move it via drag and drop or via routing to the DAW.
I know that are lots of ways to skin this cat, but what Adar is offering is something very new and very practical for the BIAB-VST. So I will lobby as hard as I can.
Yes look at it this way. If it is an option you can either use or not depending on your process.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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Not sure if this is "midi tracks" or midi styles (all tracks midi). 
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