|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 172
Apprentice
|
OP
Apprentice
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 172 |
Hi group. I am a real newbie with my first install and having a great time learning. I bought the program because of the quality of the RealTracks to make backing tracks for myself.
I am super impressed with how the RealTracks do sound.
That brings me to the question of why would one would want to use the MIDI tracks or MIDI combined with RealTracks styles? I realize that all the MIDI offerings are there from previous releases of the software. And clearly for some there must be benefits to using MIDI styles as I have picked up from forum comments. But I am totally naive as to why that would be so considering the superior sound quality of the RealTracks.
Can the board help me appreciate these simple but "new to me" nuances?
Thanks so much!
BIAB 2022 UltraPak, WIN10, Scarlett 2i2, Guitar Rig 6, Fishman LoudBox Artist, Martin D35, Taylor 812c, Cordoba 55FCE, Fender Strat, Epiphone LP, Ibanez GB10se
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,352
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,352 |
Both MIDI and RealTracks have their advantages. The advantage with MIDI is that you can create your own specific runs, and effects, change just about anything, while RealTracks are generally pre-recorded music passages. With MIDI, you can change the instrument from a jazz guitar to a rock guitar with relative ease, and you can also record your own tracks through a number of different MIDI instruments (e.g. a keyboard or even a digital saxophone. ) That being said, the latest BiaB incorporates 'Playable RealTracks' which is another game changer. Nevertheless, MIDI has an important place in the BiaB product.
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,520
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,520 |
I think for me, I use some midi tracks because they are easy to modify. Also if I don't like the sound they produce, which is 99% of the time, I can change that tone with the many VSTs I have.
I assume there are a lot of other reasons that people who have been using midi for years have that I am unaware of.
Billy
New location, new environment, new music coming soon
Seize the moo-ment
If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 172
Apprentice
|
|
OP
Apprentice
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 172 |
OK, VideoTrack and Planobilly, those comments were helpful for understanding, Since I have never worked with MIDI (That I know of ! LOL) your comments helped open the doors to new understanding. Thanks for that 
BIAB 2022 UltraPak, WIN10, Scarlett 2i2, Guitar Rig 6, Fishman LoudBox Artist, Martin D35, Taylor 812c, Cordoba 55FCE, Fender Strat, Epiphone LP, Ibanez GB10se
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,688
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,688 |
Here's a partial explanation that occurred to me, perhaps it may be of some value.
Say you have a really nice acoustic guitar thing you just improvised (on a real guitar!) and recorded, recording in two forms: audio and MIDI.
The audio recording captured however you sounded when you recorded it, on whatever real guitar you played. You can add post-production effects, reverb and such, but the underlying audio is fixed. It's what you played on that guitar.
The MIDI recording, on the other hand, can be rendered in production however you please, as a guitar or piano or violin or saxophone orchestra or 1950s electronic sounds or maybe a flock of sampled geese.
Consider how you might use those two recordings as material to slice and dice and recombine, for use in different creative projects going forward.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,095
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,095 |
Another advantage I've learned with using Midi besides the ability to change patches (instruments) and edit riffs and melody's, is the ability midi has to capture the feel and dynamics of a song.
For instance, assume you want to write an original song 'in the style' the Bee Gee's "How Deep Is Your Love". Loading a Midi of the song in BIAB will replicate the instruments, chords, tempo, key signature and feel of the original song. It will sound 90% like the original recording.
The user can use BIAB RealTracks, a VST, input new chords and create an original song using the midi file as a template to create an original composition 'in the style' of without having to start from scratch.
BIAB can easily handle a song file that's using both RealTracks and Midi in the arrangement.
Charlie
Last edited by Charlie Fogle; 12/02/21 05:12 PM.
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 172
Apprentice
|
|
OP
Apprentice
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 172 |
Mark Hayes and Charlie Fogle - Fascinating. I had no idea and I see a yawning rabbit hole opening up before me! Looks like it might be very fun to go down.
BIAB 2022 UltraPak, WIN10, Scarlett 2i2, Guitar Rig 6, Fishman LoudBox Artist, Martin D35, Taylor 812c, Cordoba 55FCE, Fender Strat, Epiphone LP, Ibanez GB10se
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,986
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,986 |
and if a song has a 'signature riff'- say the horns on dancing in the street - you can easily replicate that in midi. even with the new editable realtracks it probably won't be as easy with realtracks. haven't tried the new editable realtracks yet but until now you were restricted to what the artist had actuallly recorded.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,095
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,095 |
Here's a partial explanation that occurred to me, perhaps it may be of some value.
Say you have a really nice acoustic guitar thing you just improvised (on a real guitar!) and recorded, recording in two forms: audio and MIDI.
The audio recording captured however you sounded when you recorded it, on whatever real guitar you played. You can add post-production effects, reverb and such, but the underlying audio is fixed. It's what you played on that guitar.
The MIDI recording, on the other hand, can be rendered in production however you please, as a guitar or piano or violin or saxophone orchestra or 1950s electronic sounds or maybe a flock of sampled geese.
Consider how you might use those two recordings as material to slice and dice and recombine, for use in different creative projects going forward. An interesting aside to Mark's suggestion above is this process of combining audio and midi has been possible in BIAB for quite some time but mostly overlooked and underutilized. These new upgrades and improvements to BIAB 2022 may bring new life to long existing features. Quote from forum post by Andrew with PG Music staff on 12/04/13 (Nearly 8 years ago to the day!)
7. Artist Performance Files. These are audio files, that you put on a track, that can also have the MIDI transcription of it. People hear the audio, and see the MIDI in notation/guitar tab etc. For example, if you are a great bluegrass fiddle player, you could put your songs in this format. People can listen to your real playing, see the notes on screen, slow them down etc. - all inside Band-in-a-Box where they can do other things like solo/mute other tracks, mix them etc.
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,751
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,751 |
In addition to the previous mentioned reasons here are a few more:
1- With MIDI you can change the tempo without adding artifacts to the sound. One can go from 10 BPM to 300 BPM and the sound will sound the same and only the tempo will change.
2- You can change any chord into another in MIDI. If you want an Am7b5#9 you can either play it or write it. All chords are possible in MIDI
3-You can change the length and/or pitch of any chord or note in MIDI.
4- You can add or delete vibrato with MIDI
5- Using filters you can change a sound while it it playing in MIDI. This is great for programing sweeps.
6- You can have each drum on a separate track. This each track can be modified,i.e. different effects on each track, write/play your own fills, etc. (This may be possible with RTs in BiaB 2022, don't know....yet)
In other words MIDI has a lot of advantages going for it. However it takes a few bucks to get good MIDI sounds and a learning curve to achieve good emulations.
RTs have their place but so does MIDI.
Just my thoughts.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,091
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,091 |
MIDI is thousands of times more editable than audio. If you have a good MIDI synthesizer, it can sound 95% or more as good as the real instrument. If you have a cheesy synth, you will have cheesy sounds. If you have a great synth, you'll have great sounds. You can export a MIDI track to a Sequencer or DAW and make the music more expressive. The average listener listens to expression more than tone, which is why singers like Dr. John, Stevie Nicks, John Lennon, Blossom Dearie and others can sell zillions of records with voices that are not considered great sounding. And what is great tone? Take guitar is in Hendrix? Burrell? May? Hall? Slash? Beck? Clapton? Armstrong? Satriani? And on which guitar? Jimmy Page plays better on an el-cheapo Danelectro than most others do on top-of-the-line premium guitars. Here is a short list of what you can do with MIDI that you cannot do with audio: http://www.nortonmusic.com/midi_vs_loops.htmlAnd here is a link to the continuous controllers that you can use to coax more expression out of MIDI http://www.nortonmusic.com/midi_cc.htmlI make backing tracks for my duo, The Sophisticats http://www.s-cats.com, that would be impossible to make with RealTracks. I'll use BiaB MIDI tracks and add the song specific licks and other parts that a generic BiaB style can't do. And BiaB styles need to be generic. If you had a style with an obvious signature lick for one song, it would only be good for that song. Music is a journey, life is too short to learn it all. But that makes it interesting, as you can learn new things forever to keep it from being boring. Your first inroads into MIDI may be baby steps, but sooner or later you will be able to make better music with MIDI than you can with audio loops. But remember, there is more than one right way to make music. The RealTracks are fantastic, and although I prefer MIDI, when a RT is just right for what I need, I'll use it. It's good to have an assortment of tools in your tool chest. Insights and incites by Notes
Last edited by Notes Norton; 12/03/21 03:57 AM. Reason: Typo
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 13
Newbie
|
|
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 13 |
Thank you for the valuable insight into MIDI.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,047
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,047 |
I don't use midi in the traditional sense but i do like the MidiSuperTracks. The are almost identical to their RT counterpart and I can easily put one of the many sounds on the track that comes with my DAW (Logic Pro). I've been particularly pleased with Logic's Grand Steinway on MST piano tracks. For our blues rock centered productions I can typically find a MST to work with.
This is very primitive compared to the folks who as described about use midi to the max.
Bud
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 172
Apprentice
|
|
OP
Apprentice
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 172 |
Remarkable and educational comments and answers. I will follow the links and explore. There is a whole world out there/here that obviously I do not know about. This community is amazing.
I just upgraded to UltraPak and am loving the learning curve.
I especially liked Norton's quote:
"Music is a journey, life is too short to learn it all. But that makes it interesting, as you can learn new things forever to keep it from being boring."
Learning is what I like most in life.
BIAB 2022 UltraPak, WIN10, Scarlett 2i2, Guitar Rig 6, Fishman LoudBox Artist, Martin D35, Taylor 812c, Cordoba 55FCE, Fender Strat, Epiphone LP, Ibanez GB10se
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,091
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,091 |
A couple of quotes on MIDI:
Excerpt from Electronic Musician (EM) February 2013 by Craig Anderton:
…Thirty years ago, at the 1983 Winter NAMM show, a Sequential Circuits Prophet-600 talked to a Roland JX-3P and MIDI went mainstream. Since then, MIDI has become embedded in the DNA of virtually every pop music production (yes I stole that line from Alan Parsons, but I don't think he'll mind)…
-----------------
Excerpted from Keyboard magazine, March 2014 by Craig Anderton:
…Today you can easily record 100 tracks of digital audio on a basic laptop, so MIDI may seem irrelevant in the studio. Yet MIDI remains not only viable, but valuable, because it lets you exploit today's studio in ways that digital audio still can't.
…
Deep editing. Digital audio allows for broad edits, like changing levels or moving sections around, and editing tools such as Melodyne are doing ever more fine-grained audio surgery. But MIDI is more fine grained still: You can edit every characteristic of every performance gesture: dynamics, volume, timing, the length and pitch of every note, pitch-bend, and even which sound is being played. MIDI data can tell a piano sound what to play, or if you change your mind, a Clavinet patch. With digital audio, changing the instrument that plays a given part requires re-recording the track….but MIDI can do much more…
-----------------
I feel that I can take a BiaB MIDI file, download it to a MIDI sequencer or DAW, add a few things, subtract a few things, move a few things around, change the inversion of a chord so the melody note comes out better, change a couple of voices (patches), add a real intro, add a real ending, and so on, then turn the already very good output of Band-in-a-Box into something ready for prime time.
I learn how to improve from things I try that work, and I learn what not to do from things I try that don't work.
The result is the backing tracks I make for my duo today are much better than they were in the 1990s because I've learned so much since then.
Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums66
Topics81,560
Posts734,404
Members38,491
| |
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean