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#688465 - 12/06/21 02:44 AM [User Showcase] You're Leaving (Eleanor Forte AI, Updated Mix)
Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 5119
Loc: Sacramento, California
dcuny Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 5119
Loc: Sacramento, California
You're Leaving (Mix #2)

You lay the blame then you turn and run
'Cause you're like a child with a loaded gun
They say it takes two, two to play the game
One to point the finger, and one to take the blame
But you will be playing this game alone
You're going home

      Yes, you're leaving, walking out the door
      I'm not playing any more
      Leaving, get moving along
      Time for you be gone

Pack your own bags - I'm not your maid
There's nothing left, nothing left to save
Everything that's yours I want it gone
You can pick it up right now, or pick it off the lawn
You're no longer gonna be here with me
I'm taking back my keys

      Yes, you're leaving, walking out that door
      I'm not playing any more
      Leaving and never coming back
      No, I don't owe you Jack

Say goodbye, better cut and run
And don't you deny all those things you've done
All I want from you is to left alone
I'll be better without you, happy on my own
If you think that we still can be friends
You'd better think again

      You're leaving, walking out the door
      I'm not playing any more
      Leaving, I don't care where you go
      I'm no longer gonna listen
      I don't wanna know

The Instruments
~1433:Bass, Electric, JazzFunkGroovin Ev16 110
~1437:Piano, Electric, Rhythm JazzFunkGroovin Ev16 110
2403:Guitar, Acoustic, Rhythm FunkyFolk Ev16 110
~1436:Guitar, Electric, Rhythm JazzFunkGroovinMute Ev16 110
~1437:Piano, Electric, Rhythm JazzFunkGroovin Ev16 110
3338:Synth, Analog, Soloist FunkJeff Ev16 110
2619:Organ, Rhythm Funk Ev 100
JazzFunkGroovin^1-a:Sidestick, Hihat , b:Snare, Hihat

The Effects Chains
Master Buss: Lurssen Mastering Console, Ozone Imager 2

Vocal Buss: Sunset Sound (Iso Booth/Studio 2)
SynthV (Eleanor Forte AI), GW VoiceCentric (Natural Vocal Mix)
Harmony Vocal: SynthV (Eleanor Forte AI), Doubler2 (SoulMate), GW VoiceCentric (Backing Vocals), EZMix 2 (Bright Medium Verb)

Drum Buss: TrackSpacer, Ghz Vulff Compressor (Lots of Attack), TR5 Sunset Sound (Live Room/Studio 2)
BiaB Drum: ReaEQ
MIDI Drum: VD Deep (Dry Direct),

Instrument Buss: Sunset Sound Studio (Live Room/Studio 1)
Bass: Finisher Retro (Mix Console Colors)
Guitar 1: Finisher Retro (Funk Signal Chain)
Guitar 2: Finisher Retro (Funk Signal Chain)
Piano 1: Finisher Retro (Soul Signal Chain)
Piano 2: Finisher Retro (Soul Signal Chain)
Lead Synth: TrackSpacer, Finisher Retro (Too Old Tube), EZMix2 (Phaser)
Organ: TrackSpacer

Mix #2
  • Panned instruments for more depth.
  • Balanced drums - louder, and cut some highs.
  • Less mud on the bass.
  • Guitars are now audible.
  • Phaser on the synth lead to make better use of space.

Blah Blah Blah

This song started with the Syle demo _JZFNKGA.STY (Funky Folk w/ Band). As usual, I altered a lot of chords, worked on some bass lines, and added some hits and pauses.

I then exported the individual files out to Reaper, and created a single backing track that I imported into SynthesizerV and did the lyrics in the piano roll style editor.

Writing lyrics was painful as ever. cry

The prior song had used a relatively high register for Eleanor Forte, and the feedback had generally been that it wasn't a good register. This time, I decided to use to use a much lower register. Eleanor Forte AI has a much softer voice than Eleanor Forte Standard, and the general consensus is that it's difficult to get her to sing with any power.

I did a pass to add harmonies, and then some echo parts. My daughter suggested that bringing the harmonies in on the first verse didn't work, and of course, she was right.

I added a second drum from the recently purchased UJAM Deep Drum, because I needed to justify the purchase.

It took a lot more work to balance this mix. The funky organ was a late addition, and it really helped glue things together.

I'm still likely to tweak the mix/vocals, so as usual, comments of any sort are welcome. laugh
_________________________
-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?

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#688480 - 12/06/21 05:16 AM [User Showcase] Re: You're Leaving (Eleanor Forte AI) [Re: dcuny]
Registered: 05/27/19
Posts: 1917
Loc: Dallas, PA, USA
BabuMusic Offline
Expert

Registered: 05/27/19
Posts: 1917
Loc: Dallas, PA, USA
Very interesting recording, David. That AI sounds pretty good --amazing how good it's coming along. I hear none of the angst in your lyric writing.

A good write and masterful production. The mix is perfect. Everything comes through so well, and it becomes fun to move attention around to enjoy each part. You do some amazing work in your productions. Much of the processes you describe are way above my pay grade, but I know it's got to take awhile. Your finished product comes through as effortless.
_________________________
Enjoy whatever happens!
marty

Babu Music on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLDrsXTXfShgnGalQZ0ElQw
Me on SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/marty-straub

My website: http://martystraub.com/

using Band in a Box, Reaper, Cakewalk, Ozone 9

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#688496 - 12/06/21 05:54 AM [User Showcase] Re: You're Leaving (Eleanor Forte AI) [Re: dcuny]
Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 8250
Guitarhacker Offline
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Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 8250
Nice jazzy way to start the week.

Those AI voices are really starting to get good. It sounds very similar to the vocal treatment used on lots of recordings these days by the pop stars.

Nice
_________________________
You can find my music at:
www.herbhartley.com

Add nothing that adds nothing to the music.


As the sword chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer.

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#688518 - 12/06/21 07:21 AM [User Showcase] Re: You're Leaving (Eleanor Forte AI) [Re: dcuny]
Registered: 02/03/16
Posts: 1660
Loc: Germany
Crossroads Offline
Expert

Registered: 02/03/16
Posts: 1660
Loc: Germany
Dave,

I wouldn't have had to read your (most interesting!) 'blah-blah-blah' to understand that you put a lot of time and effort into this one.

First of all: The backing track is awesome. Period. And it sounds good. And what you did with that AI voice is pretty amating, I think.

Astounding, stunning, astonishing. And great!

All the best,

Stefan

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#688520 - 12/06/21 07:23 AM [User Showcase] Re: You're Leaving (Eleanor Forte AI) [Re: dcuny]
Registered: 01/06/20
Posts: 1749
Loc: Illinois
CaptainMoto Offline
Expert

Registered: 01/06/20
Posts: 1749
Loc: Illinois
Your work is getting better and better with each new song.

A nice write and pretty cool track.
Eleanor is sounding great!

well done

moto
_________________________
An Old Man Make'n Music

https://sites.google.com/view/captainmoto-com/home?authuser=0

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#688539 - 12/06/21 08:13 AM [User Showcase] Re: You're Leaving (Eleanor Forte AI) [Re: dcuny]
Registered: 06/21/21
Posts: 1497
Mark Hayes Offline
Expert

Registered: 06/21/21
Posts: 1497
Originally Posted By: dcuny
The prior song had used a relatively high register for Eleanor Forte, and the feedback had generally been that it wasn't a good register. This time, I decided to use to use a much lower register. Eleanor Forte AI has a much softer voice than Eleanor Forte Standard, and the general consensus is that it's difficult to get her to sing with any power.


I noticed that she didn't sound "plump" this time, which I gather is because she wasn't pushing into her falsetto range. I also noticed she did sound a little weak at times – but that's OK, so do humans.

Fascinating watching this artificial person evolve in your laboratory.

I do hope Eleanor still finds time for the weekend antiquing she so loves. =8^)

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#688541 - 12/06/21 08:16 AM [User Showcase] Re: You're Leaving (Eleanor Forte AI) [Re: dcuny]
Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 10208
Loc: Florida
floyd jane Offline
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Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 10208
Loc: Florida
David,

"They say it takes two, two to play the game
One to point the finger, and one to take the blame"

What a great line! A T-Shirt line. Nice.

"You can pick it up right now, or pick it off the lawn"
Nice!

Mix sounds good. I thought the drums could be VERY slightly louder.

I would imagine you (as the programmer) are responsible for the timing of the the lyrics - how the words are SUNG. If so, you did an AMAZING job. Cadence-wise this sounds like a real singer. And the vocal SOUND is as close (to "real") as I've heard from a generated voice. VERY impressive.

And I liked the song!

fj

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#688571 - 12/06/21 10:16 AM [User Showcase] Re: You're Leaving (Eleanor Forte AI) [Re: BabuMusic]
Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 5119
Loc: Sacramento, California
dcuny Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 5119
Loc: Sacramento, California
Originally Posted By: BabuMusic
Very interesting recording, David. That AI sounds pretty good --amazing how good it's coming along.

I'll take "pretty good" over "super-distracted and weird" any day of the week. grin

Quote:
A good write and masterful production. The mix is perfect. Everything comes through so well, and it becomes fun to move attention around to enjoy each part. You do some amazing work in your productions.

Thanks! I suspect I'm more an technician/engineer than a writer, meaning I tend to obsess about the mix. But unfortunately, my ears aren't as good as I'd like them, so it's good to hear it worked.

Quote:
Your finished product comes through as effortless.

Glad to hear it! I chalk most of that up to the fine performances in BiaB. smile

Thanks for stopping by and commenting!
_________________________
-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?

Top
#688575 - 12/06/21 10:23 AM [User Showcase] Re: You're Leaving (Eleanor Forte AI) [Re: Guitarhacker]
Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 5119
Loc: Sacramento, California
dcuny Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 5119
Loc: Sacramento, California
Originally Posted By: Guitarhacker
Those AI voices are really starting to get good. It sounds very similar to the vocal treatment used on lots of recordings these days by the pop stars.

Yeah, despite the addition of "humanization" to the pitch, it still feels overprocessed - even before I throw it through my compression.

But I think it's leaning more towards sounding like an over-processed human than robot, so that's a good thing.

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback! smile
_________________________
-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?

Top
#688579 - 12/06/21 10:31 AM [User Showcase] Re: You're Leaving (Eleanor Forte AI) [Re: Crossroads]
Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 5119
Loc: Sacramento, California
dcuny Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 5119
Loc: Sacramento, California
Originally Posted By: Crossroads
I wouldn't have had to read your (most interesting!) 'blah-blah-blah' to understand that you put a lot of time and effort into this one.

Hi, Stefan.

It's about the same level of work that I put into any normal song, honestly.

The other day, I was feeling relief that I had finished the vocal - or at least, replaced all the dummy "la la la" lyrics with actual words.

Then it hit me that I still had many hours of arranging, editing and mixing to go. cry

It makes me question the wisdom of this as a hobby. wink

Quote:
First of all: The backing track is awesome. Period. And it sounds good. And what you did with that AI voice is pretty amazing, I think.

Astounding, stunning, astonishing. And great!

Wow! Thanks for the kind words! laugh
_________________________
-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?

Top
#688582 - 12/06/21 10:38 AM [User Showcase] Re: You're Leaving (Eleanor Forte AI) [Re: CaptainMoto]
Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 5119
Loc: Sacramento, California
dcuny Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 5119
Loc: Sacramento, California
Originally Posted By: CaptainMoto
Your work is getting better and better with each new song.

Hi, Captain!

Thanks, I appreciate the encouragement! smile

Quote:
A nice write and pretty cool track.
Eleanor is sounding great!

I'm glad you like the "new" voice as well as the song.

Thanks for listening and commenting!
_________________________
-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?

Top
#688583 - 12/06/21 10:44 AM [User Showcase] Re: You're Leaving (Eleanor Forte AI) [Re: Mark Hayes]
Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 5119
Loc: Sacramento, California
dcuny Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 5119
Loc: Sacramento, California
Originally Posted By: Mark Hayes
I noticed that she didn't sound "plump" this time, which I gather is because she wasn't pushing into her falsetto range. I also noticed she did sound a little weak at times – but that's OK, so do humans.

Hi, Mark.

She's pretty much at the bottom of her range here. I was actually getting some nasty metallic artifacts on some of the low notes. Shifting the Gender parameter towards "male" helped in those instances.

Quote:
Fascinating watching this artificial person evolve in your laboratory.

The Anri voice should be released in a couple of days, in time for the next song. Which means a whole new voice to learn how to work with. She's got an even more "pop" voice than Eleanor. It'll be interesting to see what sort of song she fits with.

Quote:
I do hope Eleanor still finds time for the weekend antiquing she so loves. =8^)
No, I've been keeping her busy all weekend on these songs. So I suspect she's getting some well-deserved rest this week. wink

Thanks for dropping by!
_________________________
-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?

Top
#688593 - 12/06/21 11:08 AM [User Showcase] Re: You're Leaving (Eleanor Forte AI) [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 5119
Loc: Sacramento, California
dcuny Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 5119
Loc: Sacramento, California
Originally Posted By: floyd jane

"They say it takes two, two to play the game
One to point the finger, and one to take the blame"

What a great line! A T-Shirt line. Nice.

I appreciate you mentioning the lyrics. This was the point where I decided to try and see how may times I could use the homonyms "to"/"two"/"too" in the lyric. whistle

Speaking of T-shirts, this was a sort of reverse version of the Ben Folds Five's "Song for the Dumped". That song has the line "And give me back my black t-shirt". I needed a rhyme for "key", and I really, really wanted to put in reference to a t-shirt in. But "tee" by itself wouldn't work, and I couldn't get "t-shirt to work, so I eventually figured something else out.

But it took me a long time before I was willing to let that go. cry

Quote:
"You can pick it up right now, or pick it off the lawn"
Nice!

Thanks! Probably my favorite bit in the song. I've resigned myself to the fact that everything I write is (unintentionally) half-remembered from somewhere else. So I'm sure someone far more clever than me said that.

Quote:
Mix sounds good. I thought the drums could be VERY slightly louder.

Good to hear!

The Vulf Compressor is adding a lot of punch to the drums, and bringing up the drums any more would have them clip.

So either I bring the master mix down to make headroom for the drums, or put a compressor/limiter on the drums to stop them from clipping.

I'll probably have my son show me his favorite limiter and how to use it properly. smile

Edit: He agrees the drums are low, and doesn't like the muddiness of the bass. The correct solution is the first option - lowering the other instruments. I'd also put the Stereo Widener after the Mastering Plugin, which is the wrong order. The master buss should have been at unity before sending the signal to the Mastering Plugin, so that needs to be corrected. And I'd lazily added the room effects to the buss rather than routing the instruments to the effects with a separate send so the amount of reverb on each instrument could be controlled. So there are a bunch of things he's got to fix. laugh

Quote:
I would imagine you (as the programmer) are responsible for the timing of the the lyrics - how the words are SUNG. If so, you did an AMAZING job. Cadence-wise this sounds like a real singer. And the vocal SOUND is as close (to "real") as I've heard from a generated voice. VERY impressive.

Thanks for noticing that! laugh

Yes, I'm basically working with a piano-roll style editor, so I've got control over the timing. I'll sketch out the melody before putting in the lyrics, but once the lyrics are added to the notes, I'll adjust them so they match the lyrics and the singer's voice.

And there are a lot of parameters I adjust on a note-to-note basis which help add to the expressiveness.

But as for the quality of the voice, that's a function of the software. And I think it's gotten measurably better in this new voicebank.

Quote:
And I liked the song!

Well, I can't ask for more than that! laugh

I always appreciate your feedback, thanks again!
_________________________
-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?

Top
#688622 - 12/06/21 12:44 PM [User Showcase] Re: You're Leaving (Eleanor Forte AI) [Re: dcuny]
Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 1707
Loc: Maryland
TuneMonger Offline
Expert

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 1707
Loc: Maryland
Really liked the lyrics and the whole project, all told. Your efforts are paying off and I'd love to hear what you're capable of in six months to a year. This is a fascinating journey. I'm sure in twenty years it will be difficult to tell a synthetic voice from a real one. In the meantime, I think it's still possible to make good music with what's available now, as you are doing.
_________________________
Windows 10, Intel Core I5 10400, 16 gig ram, Scarlett 6i6, Komplete keyboard, Sony Acid Music Studio 11, BIAB 2020 UltraPlus Pak

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#688636 - 12/06/21 01:13 PM [User Showcase] Re: You're Leaving (Eleanor Forte AI) [Re: TuneMonger]
Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 5119
Loc: Sacramento, California
dcuny Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 5119
Loc: Sacramento, California
Originally Posted By: TuneMonger
Really liked the lyrics and the whole project, all told.

Thanks! This is more an effort to write songs than a tech demo,

Quote:
Your efforts are paying off and I'd love to hear what you're capable of in six months to a year.

Well, hopefully the tunefulness of my music will improve. smile

There are additional voices coming out, and hopefully I'll have figured out what the various levers do - as well simple stuff like paying more attention to vocal range. I really should go back to my prior song at some point and pitch it down to something more comfortable for the vocal.

Quote:
I'm sure in twenty years it will be difficult to tell a synthetic voice from a real one.

If you compare where this synthetic voice was only three years ago, you'll find a vast difference is realism.

I suspect that next big step for this product will be the re-introduction of glottal effects, such as growl and vocal fry. It had been in a prior release, but the UI was difficult to use - even if you were a trained speech pathologist! laugh

I think the ability to shape more subtle vocal effects would really bring this to another level.

Quote:
In the meantime, I think it's still possible to make good music with what's available now, as you are doing.

Thanks! laugh
_________________________
-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?

Top
#688706 - 12/06/21 06:46 PM [User Showcase] Re: You're Leaving (Eleanor Forte AI) [Re: dcuny]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 1081
jptjptjpt Offline
Expert

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 1081
Good work. You have really mastered this "style". I love that the AI is kicking the guy out. I wish you could do a video where the animated woman is kicking the real life guy out.

Great lyrics, by the way.

Excellent work here.
_________________________
My music can be heard at: The Cracks

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#688892 - 12/07/21 02:12 PM [User Showcase] Re: You're Leaving (Eleanor Forte AI) [Re: dcuny]
Registered: 12/08/11
Posts: 6645
Loc: Edmonton, Ab, Canada
Scott C Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/08/11
Posts: 6645
Loc: Edmonton, Ab, Canada
Well done David. I agree with Marty. You are getting the vocaloid really dialed in. Loved the song and lyric. Well done. Super mix

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#688911 - 12/07/21 04:18 PM [User Showcase] Re: You're Leaving (Eleanor Forte AI) [Re: dcuny]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 17388
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 17388
Loc: Hamlin NY
David you are a master of that vocaloid! It is sounding more and more organic! Outstanding job on that.

You are starting to show me a way that I can sing!

Super job!
_________________________
You know you're in trouble when you leave a memory improvement class and can't remember where you parked your car!

64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB and RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software and some hardware

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#688969 - 12/07/21 08:20 PM [User Showcase] Re: You're Leaving (Eleanor Forte AI) [Re: dcuny]
Registered: 04/13/16
Posts: 4430
Loc: Cooran Queensland Australia
rayc Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/13/16
Posts: 4430
Loc: Cooran Queensland Australia
Impressive stuff.
_________________________
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe

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#688973 - 12/07/21 08:27 PM [User Showcase] Re: You're Leaving (Eleanor Forte AI) [Re: jptjptjpt]
Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 5119
Loc: Sacramento, California
dcuny Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 5119
Loc: Sacramento, California
Originally Posted By: jptjptjpt
Good work. You have really mastered this "style". I love that the AI is kicking the guy out. I wish you could do a video where the animated woman is kicking the real life guy out.

Hi, Sean.

Of course, you're assuming she's not kicking an AI out of her place. wink

Quote:
Great lyrics, by the way.

Glad to hear that! laugh
_________________________
-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?

Top
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