PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Beginners Forum I find that chords are more important than multistyles

Index

Print Thread

Go To

Page 1 of 3

I find that chords are more important than multistyles #694876 12/29/21 09:08 PM Beginners Forum
Joined: Sep 2021 Posts: 2,046 S swingbabymix OP Veteran
OP swingbabymix Veteran S Joined: Sep 2021 Posts: 2,046	I previously hoped that the more multistyles, the better. I tried more chord changes today, and found it was very good, the accompaniment was more stable, and it was more suitable for singing. So although it is just a pattern, the chord changes more, which will effectively improve the feeling of accompaniment repetition. But I sang this song. If you are doing rap, there may be fewer chords, and at most 1-4 chords may be used in the whole song. Because I found that many good songs have very few chords. Maybe they use a lot of substitutions? WIN10 20H2, AMD R4800H ,16G , 2T ,FOCUSRITE 2i4 MKII，Studio One,FL STUDIO

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles swingbabymix #694877 12/29/21 10:35 PM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 18,357 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 18,357 Melbourne, Australia	Originally Posted By: swingbabymix ...Because I found that many good songs have very few chords. Maybe they use a lot of substitutions? My recommendation is not to lock yourself in to too many rules, especially as far as chord structures go. Remain flexible. Your results will be broader also. BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles AudioTrack #694899 12/30/21 01:19 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Sep 2021 Posts: 2,046 S swingbabymix OP Veteran
OP swingbabymix Veteran S Joined: Sep 2021 Posts: 2,046	ok WIN10 20H2, AMD R4800H ,16G , 2T ,FOCUSRITE 2i4 MKII，Studio One,FL STUDIO

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles swingbabymix #694902 12/30/21 02:46 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 1,988 Essex England Bob Calver Expert
Bob Calver Expert Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 1,988 Essex England	basic fact is that chords are the building blocks of music in BIAB. you have to get those right. whizzy features such as multi styles are what you go for when you need them not as a starting point. so create music by what sounds good not what the software is capable of. thousandths and thousands of hit pop and country songs use only three chords and thousands more only use six when they add their relative minors. and the same songs often use no more than majors, minors and sevenths. at least in pop and country.

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles Bob Calver #694917 12/30/21 04:28 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jun 2021 Posts: 1,688 Mark Hayes Expert
Mark Hayes Expert Joined: Jun 2021 Posts: 1,688	Originally Posted By: Bob Calver thousandths and thousands of hit pop and country songs use only three chords I’m trying to figure out what he means when he asks if they use a lot of “substitutions”. I guess the idea is that Woody Guthrie sat down at BIAB and banged out “This Land Is Your Land” with the normal ration of hairy jazz chords but then BIAB took over and simplified it. It would be interesting to hear the original.

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles swingbabymix #694923 12/30/21 04:53 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 1,988 Essex England Bob Calver Expert
Bob Calver Expert Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 1,988 Essex England	i think we keep uncovering some basic lack of music knowledge. he's not just learning BIAB as he goes along but how music works. if he's working off sheet music he might be entering chords that we would automatically simplify. and i agree with Woody that 'anything more than three chords is showing off'.........

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles Bob Calver #694929 12/30/21 05:29 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 20,816 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 20,816 Hamlin NY	Originally Posted By: Bob Calver i think we keep uncovering some basic lack of music knowledge. he's not just learning BIAB as he goes along but how music works. if he's working off sheet music he might be entering chords that we would automatically simplify. I agree. It sounds like he started at ground zero and is trying to learn everything at once. But I really give him credit to learning this way. That is something I don't think that I could do. Originally Posted By: Bob Calver and i agree with Woody that 'anything more than three chords is showing off'......... I do not agree with you on this one. Many great songs have more than just three chords. Classical, jazz, pop, folk, you name it each genre has songs with more than three chords. Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work. 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles MarioD #694938 12/30/21 06:10 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jun 2021 Posts: 1,688 Mark Hayes Expert
Mark Hayes Expert Joined: Jun 2021 Posts: 1,688	Originally Posted By: MarioD It sounds like he started at ground zero and is trying to learn everything at once. But I really give him credit to learning this way. When you put it that way, it sounds awesome, almost heroic, like Abraham Lincoln trudging through the snow to get a lump of coal to do arithmetic on the back of a shovel. But I imagine someone sitting in a class, ignoring the teacher and his fellow students, surfing the Internet on his phone and periodically yelling out random questions based on what he finds. If you answer a specific question, he will pop his head up long enough to record your answer, argue with you, mention something he wants, then dive back into surfing the Internet (which he has called the "best teacher".) Maybe I'm being unkind, but I see a serious problem with this approach to "learning", as evidenced by the extremely odd title of this thread. Of course, surf the Internet and you will encounter a barrage of marketing from companies promising to teach you how to write 100 songs a day with zero knowledge of music. They will mock the "old fashioned" ways and assure you you don't need ANY of that to emit Monetizeable Musical Material. BIAB and Scaler will help you automate the entire process! Once you learn the software you can plug one program into the other and have your computer write music while you sleep. Sorry, can't type any more, my old fart hat has slipped down over my eyes. Last edited by Mark Hayes; 12/30/21 06:41 AM.

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles swingbabymix #694945 12/30/21 06:25 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 25,867 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 25,867 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	Swingbabymix, I don’t know if ‘substitutions’ means the same thing to you as it does to me (for example a tri-tone substitution). Also, many of the Brazilian songs I work with may have four chords in the first measure, never mind the whole song. And for anyone who says it’s showing off; it’s not. It’s perfectly normal for the genre. BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles Mark Hayes #694957 12/30/21 06:41 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,458 Spain C Cerio Expert
Cerio Expert C Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,458 Spain	Originally Posted By: Mark Hayes But I imagine someone sitting in a class, ignoring the teacher and his fellow students, surfing the Internet on his phone and periodically yelling out random questions based on what he finds. If you answer a specific question, he will pop his head up long enough to record your answer, argue with you, mention something he wants, then dive back into surfing the Internet (which he has called the "best teacher".) Maybe I'm being unkind, but I see a serious problem with this approach to "learning", I absolutely agree. Originally Posted By: Matt Finley Swingbabymix, Also, many of the Brazilian songs I work with may have four chords in the first measure, never mind the whole song. And for anyone who says it’s showing off; it’s not. It’s perfectly normal for the genre. Also agreed. Brazilian musicians do that all the time, not only when composing, but also when playing live and reharmonizing on the fly. BIAB 2024, latest build.

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles Mark Hayes #694963 12/30/21 07:00 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 20,816 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 20,816 Hamlin NY	Originally Posted By: Mark Hayes When you put it that way, it sounds awesome, almost heroic, like Abraham Lincoln trudging through the snow to get a lump of coal to do arithmetic on the back of a shovel. But I imagine someone sitting in a class, ignoring the teacher and his fellow students, surfing the Internet on his phone and periodically yelling out random questions based on what he finds. If you answer a specific question, he will pop his head up long enough to record your answer, argue with you, mention something he wants, then dive back into surfing the Internet (which he has called the "best teacher".) Maybe I'm being unkind, but I see a serious problem with this approach to "learning", as evidenced by the extremely odd title of this thread. Of course, surf the Internet and you will encounter a barrage of marketing from companies promising to teach you how to write 100 songs a day with zero knowledge of music. They will mock the "old fashioned" ways and assure you you don't need ANY of that to emit Monetizeable Musical Material. BIAB and Scaler will help you automate the entire process! Once you learn the software you can plug one program into the other and have your computer write music while you sleep. Sorry, can't type any more, my old fart hat has slipped down over my eyes. I agree. I'm old school, that is learn how to read music and learn at least some theory. I know you do not need to learn theory to write or play music but IMHO learning theory will help your playing/writing. I totally agree with your second paragraph. Answers have been given that were ignored. A number of us have suggested getting an intro to music theory book. Some of his questions have been answered by other questions that would have been obvious if a little theory and/or playing experience were applied. I still stand by my statement "started at ground zero and is trying to learn everything at once". IMHO, and I might be wrong here, it seems that instead of cracking a book he wants to be spoon fed answers by forum members. YMMV Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work. 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles swingbabymix #694969 12/30/21 07:21 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Dec 2021 Posts: 26 Montclair, NJ GodTripped Enthusiast
GodTripped Enthusiast Joined: Dec 2021 Posts: 26 Montclair, NJ	I actually think there are no "wrong" chords if they support the melody. Consider your basic circle of 5th/4ths construct and there are chord relationships shared by multiple keys. There is clearly no rule that restricts you from "borrowing" from other key centers. As for 'substitutions', tritones make anything possible and this is the path to adding 'color' where a standard more predictable chord can sit. Proof? Joni Mitchell does it. Sting more deliberately so. But the king of this? Stevie Wonder. The more I think on this cat, the more it makes sense why it is easy for him to break the rules: he trusted his ears and it if sounded good, who cares what the rules are. Revisit My Cherie first and then nearly any other of his tunes as he messes with the listener much to their delight.

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles GodTripped #694974 12/30/21 07:43 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jun 2021 Posts: 1,688 Mark Hayes Expert
Mark Hayes Expert Joined: Jun 2021 Posts: 1,688	I think of musical rules as being like rules of the road, but not legal rules, like basic rules of driving. "Leave adequate space for braking" and such, and how to negotiate merges. But these guidelines are just there to help me get where I'm going in one piece, and are immediately overridden by any situational factors. I'm not going to yield to somebody going dangerously slow because it might create a general hazard, I will accelerate past them, and if I'm on a Christmas "light ride" I will disregard a lifetime of habit and turn my headlights off at night. Imagine a musical "rule" that says, "Don't play a song in two different keys at once". It makes sense because of the dissonance that will cause. A bi-tonal piece will quite likely sound awful, and a beginner would be well-advised to have all his players playing in the same key. Of course, if you're Charles Ives, you will do what you want and in fact that will often be EXACTLY what you want, and "rules" do not stop you. The beginning composer, however, is advised not to unintentionally come off sounding like Charles Ives when that was not desired.

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles swingbabymix #694984 12/30/21 08:33 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Dec 2021 Posts: 26 Montclair, NJ GodTripped Enthusiast
GodTripped Enthusiast Joined: Dec 2021 Posts: 26 Montclair, NJ	I get the rules of the road analogy but those rules are in place for the purposes of safety, regardless of how you employ them the reasonable expectation is that they will be observed. The rules of music are considerably blurred by comparison because 'safety' is on no one's mind. (Charlie Parker and Coltrane come to mind.) It is helpful to have intention built into your creative purpose but much is to be said for 'happy accidents' which no musician, educated or not, hasn't stumbled upon in their respective journeys. As for the beginning composer, we have all been there and I dare say it was fun to be ignorant because the absent of rules made us much braver then. My personal struggle as a songwriter is to somehow get "back to the egg" because it all seemed fresh and exciting when we knew nothing.

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles swingbabymix #695014 12/30/21 11:03 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 1,988 Essex England Bob Calver Expert
Bob Calver Expert Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 1,988 Essex England	apologies mario, i realise there are songs with more than three chords - i even know some of them. but my point is quite serious. pop, country and folk are probably the most accessble of genres, and majors, minors and sevenths usually suffice to create a lot of really wonderful music. playing guitar we all get the hang of sus chords and how they resolve - add and take off the g on the top string of a D chord is sonething we all learnt by simply playing or watching other guitarists. it sounds cool and we learnt by doing it! some of the chords the OP is asking qestions about seem to come out of nowhere - unless as i mentioned earlier he is using a program that creates chord sequences. if that's the case he's generating chords with a program and turning them into songs with BIAB instead of starting with the music he wants to create. mind you, if he's attemtping to learn BIAB and jazz from scratch he's braver than i am. but then creating any kind of music without learning an instrument misses a great deal of the pleasure and satisfaction. i do feel we are being used a little - i have had invaluable help from the forum but my first reponse is not to make a psot if i'm not sure how to do something which is what the OP seems to do. Last edited by Bob Calver; 12/30/21 11:07 AM.

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles Bob Calver #695018 12/30/21 11:28 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 20,816 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 20,816 Hamlin NY	No need to apologize my friend. No foul no harm. I agree with your last post completely. Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work. 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles Bob Calver #695055 12/30/21 02:21 PM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jun 2021 Posts: 1,688 Mark Hayes Expert
Mark Hayes Expert Joined: Jun 2021 Posts: 1,688	Originally Posted By: Bob Calver if that's the case he's generating chords with a program and turning them into songs with BIAB instead of starting with the music he wants to create I actually think that would be great! He just posted a simple chord progression here, probably emitted by Scaler, that would make a fine BIAB song, creation of which would do far more for him, as a would-be songwriter, than having 10 people explain why E Major sounds cool in the key of C. Last edited by Mark Hayes; 12/30/21 02:23 PM.

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles swingbabymix #695127 12/30/21 10:45 PM Beginners Forum
Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 1,988 Essex England Bob Calver Expert
Bob Calver Expert Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 1,988 Essex England	But would it? Press button A to get chords. Press button B to get backing. No personal input no creativity. Is that really the way we want music making to go?

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles swingbabymix #695128 12/30/21 10:58 PM Beginners Forum
Joined: Sep 2021 Posts: 2,046 S swingbabymix OP Veteran
OP swingbabymix Veteran S Joined: Sep 2021 Posts: 2,046	thanks for your replies! I will work hard to learn chords. However, I may not go to read. Because books are basically translated, I don’t understand. The most important thing is that I have been sleeping since I was young. My main source of music theory knowledge comes from video and direct software operation. With your help, I have a more in-depth understanding of BIAB. The more I use it, the more I like it. Not only can this software help to make music, but I think it is also a very good teaching software. It is difficult for me to understand some chords in a short period of time. I can only rely on memorization or familiarity with the operation. However, I believe that with the accumulation of time, I will change from mere memory to flexible use, and I will gradually get better. thank you all ^0^ WIN10 20H2, AMD R4800H ,16G , 2T ,FOCUSRITE 2i4 MKII，Studio One,FL STUDIO

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles swingbabymix #695136 12/31/21 12:48 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jul 2019 Posts: 275 Worcester, United Kingdom TRYUK Apprentice
TRYUK Apprentice Joined: Jul 2019 Posts: 275 Worcester, United Kingdom	Many, many years ago when I first got in to music, the most helpful thing I found was a circle of fifths wheel. It taught me the basic building blocks of music, in time I found it easier to be able to work out chord patterns, and that you could break the rules. These days there are apps and many web sites that do the circle of fifths. I would suggest that Swingbabymix look in to that, he will get an awful lot of benefit and insight very quickly.

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles TRYUK #695137 12/31/21 01:56 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Sep 2021 Posts: 2,046 S swingbabymix OP Veteran
OP swingbabymix Veteran S Joined: Sep 2021 Posts: 2,046	Originally Posted By: TRYUK Many, many years ago when I first got in to music, the most helpful thing I found was a circle of fifths wheel. It taught me the basic building blocks of music, in time I found it easier to be able to work out chord patterns, and that you could break the rules. These days there are apps and many web sites that do the circle of fifths. I would suggest that Swingbabymix look in to that, he will get an awful lot of benefit and insight very quickly. Can the circle of fifths help me learn to substitute chords? WIN10 20H2, AMD R4800H ,16G , 2T ,FOCUSRITE 2i4 MKII，Studio One,FL STUDIO

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles TRYUK #695147 12/31/21 02:44 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 1,905 Hampshire, UK Gordon Scott Expert
Gordon Scott Expert Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 1,905 Hampshire, UK	I certainly agree about circle of fifths (or fourths depending on one's perspective). I think it's highly useful to be able to built it inside one's head, though I also carry a printed copy for quick reference. It's a powerful tool. SBM definitely uses Scaler 2 to help him design/discover progressions. Scaler 2 has a circle of fifths in its "chord" and "modulation" sections, though I think it doesn't discuss it, just offers a tool one might expect. Interesting the views about numbers of chords, substitutions and so forth. There is, to me at least, a nice presentation about "The Girl From Ipanema", how tritone substitutions were written into it, how people simplify it. https://youtu.be/OFWCbGzxofU Status Quo once did a tour entitled "The Search For The Fourth Chord". Incidentally, tritone substitutions can make things simpler rather than harder. Last edited by Gordon Scott; 12/31/21 02:47 AM. Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles Bob Calver #695153 12/31/21 03:46 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jun 2021 Posts: 1,688 Mark Hayes Expert
Mark Hayes Expert Joined: Jun 2021 Posts: 1,688	Originally Posted By: Bob Calver Press button A to get chords. Press button B to get backing. No personal input no creativity. Is that really the way we want music making to go? Not when you put it like that! But I didn't say no personal input, no creativity. There's plenty still to create in BIAB even after you pick some chords (a melody, for one thing.) Wouldn't a simple progression be a good place to start a first project? Think of the kid who just figured out that all of Chuck Berry's songs are 3 chords, and writes down all those sets of 3. That's his "Scaler". He then strums A, D, and E on his guitar – his "Band in a Box" – settles on a simple pattern, adds a melody and some words, and calls it good. On the other hand, there is this horrifying future, already in progress: – Take an audio file (or URL) of a song you like and feed it to BIAB. – BIAB analyses the song and determines the style. – BIAB generates chord progressions that fit the style. – BIAB generates melodies for each progression. – BIAB generates style-appropriate lyrics and sings them. Voila, BIAB has created an album of 12 new songs for you, ready to copyright and monetize. All that's left for you is to fire up the random title generator (a legal requirement in order to be able to assert human authorship.) Last edited by Mark Hayes; 12/31/21 02:29 PM.

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles swingbabymix #695174 12/31/21 04:44 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 20,816 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 20,816 Hamlin NY	Originally Posted By: swingbabymix Can the circle of fifths help me learn to substitute chords? Not really. It is more for chord progressions. Chord substitution is a personal, depending on song genre, and tricky thing. Here are a couple of things that may help: http://i.stack.imgur.com/Hjuz5.jpg https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Chord+Substitution&form=IRMHRS&first=1&tsc=ImageBasicHover If you need help in chord substitution you would have to post the current chord progression as well as the genre. It makes a huge difference in substituting chords for a folk, country, or jazz song. Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work. 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles MarioD #695176 12/31/21 04:51 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jul 2019 Posts: 275 Worcester, United Kingdom TRYUK Apprentice
TRYUK Apprentice Joined: Jul 2019 Posts: 275 Worcester, United Kingdom	Originally Posted By: MarioD [quote=swingbabymix] Can the circle of fifths help me learn to substitute chords? Not really. It is more for chord progressions. He seems to be a total novice to the use of chords, so surely he needs to know the basics of chord progressions at the very least. I know the forum members are extremely helpful but there is no substitute for learning these things, rather than having someone spoon feed him the answer and him not understanding the theory behind it.

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles TRYUK #695179 12/31/21 04:53 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 20,816 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 20,816 Hamlin NY	Originally Posted By: TRYUK Originally Posted By: MarioD [quote=swingbabymix] Can the circle of fifths help me learn to substitute chords? Not really. It is more for chord progressions. He seems to be a total novice to the use of chords, so surely he needs to know the basics of chord progressions at the very least. I know the forum members are extremely helpful but there is no substitute for learning these things, rather than having someone spoon feed him the answer and him not understanding the theory behind it. I agree. Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work. 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles TRYUK #695180 12/31/21 05:01 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jun 2021 Posts: 1,688 Mark Hayes Expert
Mark Hayes Expert Joined: Jun 2021 Posts: 1,688	Originally Posted By: TRYUK He seems to be a total novice to the use of chords, so surely he needs to know the basics of chord progressions at the very least. Which is why getting into chord substitution is a terrible idea. Someone who has never written a simple 3 chord song wants to stuff 13b5's and God knows what else into his noodlings because "the more, the better". PS – I was just fooling around with "This Land Is Your Land", telling BIAB to "jazz it up". I had to stop because I was afraid if I kept going it might start to sound good. Last edited by Mark Hayes; 12/31/21 08:38 AM.

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles swingbabymix #695210 12/31/21 08:16 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,129 Winston-Salem, NC USA Jim Fogle Veteran
Jim Fogle Veteran Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,129 Winston-Salem, NC USA	SwingBabyMix, and other users that want to understand music better, Check out +++ Play With Your Music +++. It is a non profit educational organization that helps beginners learn about music and music theory. Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles Jim Fogle #695287 12/31/21 02:56 PM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jun 2021 Posts: 1,688 Mark Hayes Expert
Mark Hayes Expert Joined: Jun 2021 Posts: 1,688	Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle Check out +++ Play With Your Music +++. It is a non profit educational organization that helps beginners learn about music and music theory. The project looks really interesting, but email signup doesn't work and the last forum activity was August 2020. Do you know if it continues in some form? The "cohort" idea is great.

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles Mark Hayes #695385 01/01/22 06:01 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,129 Winston-Salem, NC USA Jim Fogle Veteran
Jim Fogle Veteran Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,129 Winston-Salem, NC USA	Much of the material is self paced with links to YouTube videos (which are GREAT by the way) or to other educational sites. Forum activity comes and goes in spurts mostly depending on if the developers are trying new to develop new ideas. Cohorts is a good idea but it is time consuming to find one unless the forum is active. One of the reasons I suggested Play With Your Music to SwingBabyMix is one of the instructors is Chinese and based in Shanghai. I have a strong suspicion his heritage is Chinese so he maybe able to ask questions in his native language. It is very difficult to understand what you're learning when information is discovered in a hodgepodge manner. This site has some structure. Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles swingbabymix #695391 01/01/22 06:13 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 1,988 Essex England Bob Calver Expert
Bob Calver Expert Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 1,988 Essex England	well sugggested Jim. swbm would seem to need some education in basic music theory and practice. might cut the number of posts and help him progress in making music

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles Jim Fogle #695394 01/01/22 06:25 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jun 2021 Posts: 1,688 Mark Hayes Expert
Mark Hayes Expert Joined: Jun 2021 Posts: 1,688	Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle Forum activity comes and goes in spurts mostly depending on if the developers are trying new to develop new ideas... One of the reasons I suggested Play With Your Music to SwingBabyMix is one of the instructors is Chinese and based in Shanghai. I have a strong suspicion his heritage is Chinese so he maybe able to ask questions in his native language. Again – and please correct me if I'm wrong – I don't think he'll be able to do that. The signup function does not work, and the most recent post is from August 2020. There may be great material still online, but the site does appear to be inactive. Last edited by Mark Hayes; 01/01/22 06:29 AM.

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles swingbabymix #695397 01/01/22 06:40 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,129 Winston-Salem, NC USA Jim Fogle Veteran
Jim Fogle Veteran Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,129 Winston-Salem, NC USA	I don't know about signing up for a cohort but +++ Sign Up +++ for the Play With Your Music forum is active. Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles Jim Fogle #695398 01/01/22 06:56 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jun 2021 Posts: 1,688 Mark Hayes Expert
Mark Hayes Expert Joined: Jun 2021 Posts: 1,688	Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle I don't know about signing up for a cohort but +++ Sign Up +++ for the Play With Your Music forum is active. I tried that. The site promised me a confirmation email which never came. And a year and a half without any forum activity isn't just a lull. I sent an email to playwithyourmusic@gmail.com asking if the project is still active. It did not bounce, so hopefully I will hear back from someone. This really does interest me. Sorry if I'm being annoying, but if I don't mention this, we know who will.

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles swingbabymix #695400 01/01/22 07:02 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jul 2019 Posts: 275 Worcester, United Kingdom TRYUK Apprentice
TRYUK Apprentice Joined: Jul 2019 Posts: 275 Worcester, United Kingdom	I see SBM is now has 947 posts and is considered an expert. Why does he need so much help? I think the rating software was never expecting this sort of activity in such a short period of time.

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles TRYUK #695405 01/01/22 07:33 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 25,867 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 25,867 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	Originally Posted By: TRYUK I see SBM is now has 947 posts and is considered an expert. Why does he need so much help? I think the rating software was never expecting this sort of activity in such a short period of time. Since there is a possibility you are not kidding, I'll just clarify that the forum titles, like yours of 'Apprentice', are assigned automatically by the forum software according to total post count. It has nothing whatever to do with competence, nor time on the forum. BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles swingbabymix #695408 01/01/22 07:38 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jul 2019 Posts: 275 Worcester, United Kingdom TRYUK Apprentice
TRYUK Apprentice Joined: Jul 2019 Posts: 275 Worcester, United Kingdom	It was meant to be rather tongue in cheek. I am well aware how the the titles are assigned. By the knowledge of other forum members I am indeed an Apprentice. Though I think I know far more than SBM. there is a full manual available after all.

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles swingbabymix #695409 01/01/22 07:44 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 25,867 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 25,867 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	That's good; I was just checking. This poster does present an intriguing challenge. One other poster inquired how best to help but was discouraged by another. So for now, I have decided I'm going to consider that the OP is like my 7-year-old grandchild. Smart, inquisitive beyond belief, and inexperienced in knowing how best to learn. Also, someone whose native language presents a translation problem, and for whom sarcasm does not work and bad or snide language must be avoided. BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles Jim Fogle #695424 01/01/22 08:27 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 1,905 Hampshire, UK Gordon Scott Expert
Gordon Scott Expert Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 1,905 Hampshire, UK	Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle I have a strong suspicion his heritage is Chinese Me too ... his mentions of being unable to access certain resources strongly suggests that. Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles swingbabymix #695441 01/01/22 11:17 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 1,988 Essex England Bob Calver Expert
Bob Calver Expert Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 1,988 Essex England	i think there is a slight problem with the lack of feedback. several posts suggest how he could learn more about music. no real reply, just more questions. its as if he's exploring the features of the software not how to create music with it. another post is on why BIAB suggests a song is in G when he thinks its in E minor that prompted me to ask if he understands majors and their relative minors. the song may well be in G but if the first chord of the intro is E minor........well you see what i mean. there has been no answer. and i'm not sure chinese state censorship would extend to sites dealing with music theory. maybe specific sites - including the one Jim mentions - but if the BIAB forum is accessible then censorship is not that draconian. and as for tongue in cheek posts, my quote from Woody Guthrie - 'anything more than three chords is showing off' - seems to have forever branded me as a musical illiterate. but the point was serious in the light of some of the chord queries SBM has posted - particularly the chord substitution debate. i take the point about being inexperienced in the way to learn but all we can do is point in the right direction - and that does seem to point towards a little basic music theory.

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles Bob Calver #695447 01/01/22 11:52 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jun 2021 Posts: 1,688 Mark Hayes Expert
Mark Hayes Expert Joined: Jun 2021 Posts: 1,688	Originally Posted By: Bob Calver and as for tongue in cheek posts, my quote from Woody Guthrie - 'anything more than three chords is showing off' - seems to have forever branded me as a musical illiterate. but the point was serious in the light of some of the chord queries SBM has posted - particularly the chord substitution debate. I found THIS today, from which I learned that - minor 11ths are "moody" and "intellectual" while - minor 13ths are "sophisticated" and "hip" By the way, after all this, I finally went and bought Scaler! Been curious for a while but now I had to if for no other reason than to know what I'm talking about. I'm reading their forums now. I feel like a spy! Without getting too deep into those woods, I would like to just mention that those software users seem to have very similar concerns to these software users, with regard to tools vs. crutches, enhancements vs. substitutes for creativity, etc. Last edited by Mark Hayes; 01/01/22 01:57 PM.

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles swingbabymix #695470 01/01/22 01:57 PM Beginners Forum
Joined: May 2018 Posts: 1,362 MoultiPass Expert
MoultiPass Expert Joined: May 2018 Posts: 1,362	Originally Posted By: Bob Calver i think there is a slight problem with the lack of feedback. several posts suggest how he could learn more about music. no real reply, just more questions. its as if he's exploring the features of the software not how to create music with it. ... Suddenly I tell myself that this way of dissecting the software may be used by a Chinese start-up who would kindly like to copy our Band hahaha. Good luck guys! Just kidding ;-) Biab Audiophile 2024 11.11, Win11

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles swingbabymix #695483 01/01/22 03:03 PM Beginners Forum
Joined: Sep 2021 Posts: 2,046 S swingbabymix OP Veteran
OP swingbabymix Veteran S Joined: Sep 2021 Posts: 2,046	I am just in love with music. But I don’t have much time to study music in depth. Therefore, I found that BIAB is suitable for me because BIAB can make music easily and quickly. At first, I just wanted to use BB VST to generate some tracks, but I found that BB VST had some problems. You can go to see my message that was originally about BB VST. Then, at your prompt, I started to use the BIAB main program, so this was another process of relearning. With your help, I now have a comprehensive understanding of the logic of BIAB. I post a lot because I not only ask questions, but also give some suggestions. Finally, thank you all for your help. If there are any questions or ideas in the process of using BIAB, I will still leave a message. It has become my habit to turn on the computer every day to log in to the BIAB forum. At present, the biggest function application still hopes that CHORD BUILDER will add a keyboard. Regarding replacing chords, I have recently mastered some techniques. for example 1. You can modify the upper chord to 251 according to the next paragraph 2. In the next chord, you can insert the fifth dominant seventh chord above, C-Em becomes E-B7-Em 3. No matter which chord you want to connect to, you can insert a dominant seventh chord that is a semitone higher than that chord in front of it, C-Fmaj7 can become C-F#7-Fmaj7 Of course, these are just tricks, I can only remember now, but I don’t know why, and I don’t want to know why, because music still needs to be tried more. It is the most convenient thing to try more in BIAB. In the process of using BIAB, I think anyone who makes music should have a set of BIAB, which is really great. This is my biggest feeling. The thing I regret most now is that I didn’t use BIAB earlier. Fortunately, it's not too late! ^_^ WIN10 20H2, AMD R4800H ,16G , 2T ,FOCUSRITE 2i4 MKII，Studio One,FL STUDIO

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles Mark Hayes #695485 01/01/22 03:13 PM Beginners Forum
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,129 Winston-Salem, NC USA Jim Fogle Veteran
Jim Fogle Veteran Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,129 Winston-Salem, NC USA	Originally Posted By: Mark Hayes ... I found THIS today, ... The gentleman, Ethan Hein, that created the online dictionary and YouTube explainer video created the majority of the videos used in the Play With Your Music series. He really has a way of explaining concepts that I can understand. Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles Jim Fogle #695486 01/01/22 03:25 PM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jun 2021 Posts: 1,688 Mark Hayes Expert
Mark Hayes Expert Joined: Jun 2021 Posts: 1,688	Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle Originally Posted By: Mark Hayes ... I found THIS today, ... The gentleman, Ethan Hein, that created the online dictionary and YouTube explainer video created the majority of the videos used in the Play With Your Music series. He really has a way of explaining concepts that I can understand. Indeed, that's how I found this. Good stuff, thanks. Man, 5 years ago that project had licensed access to stems of a couple of Peter Gabriel songs that their cohorts were happily remixing! Unfortunately, that license is expired, and downloadable stems are now nowhere to be found. Last edited by Mark Hayes; 01/01/22 03:54 PM.

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles Bob Calver #695557 01/02/22 01:45 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,458 Spain C Cerio Expert
Cerio Expert C Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,458 Spain	Originally Posted By: Bob Calver and as for tongue in cheek posts, my quote from Woody Guthrie - 'anything more than three chords is showing off' - seems to have forever branded me as a musical illiterate. I'm sure nobody wanted to imply anything like that (sorry if any comment sounded that way), I think it has simply been pointed out that in some situations and musical styles that rule doesn't apply. BIAB 2024, latest build.

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles Cerio #695563 01/02/22 03:06 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 18,357 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 18,357 Melbourne, Australia	Originally Posted By: Bob Calver and as for tongue in cheek posts, my quote from Woody Guthrie - 'anything more than three chords is showing off' - seems to have forever branded me as a musical illiterate. I only interpreted the comment as a cheeky statement by Woodie, who clearly actually knew all along the 3 chords was only a starting point BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Re: I find that chords are more important than multistyles swingbabymix #695605 01/02/22 07:09 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 1,905 Hampshire, UK Gordon Scott Expert
Gordon Scott Expert Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 1,905 Hampshire, UK	12-bar blues is only three chords and is a great place from which to start. Blues scale or mixo-blues scale over the top makes a great foundation and leads a long way. The fact that it has only three chords both reinforces Woodie's and Bob's statement, but the use of those scales over the chords also builds lots of other chords on the way, which we don't necessarily thinkof as chords, but they certainly are! I'm mostly jazz-oriented, but I still enjoy improvising over simple blues progressions. A good way to switch the mind off and just let the music guide the subconcious. I seem to remember Mark Knopfler saying that he was at his happiest just playing chords and singing along. Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.

Go To

Page 1 of 3

Moderated by Andrew - PG Music, Blake - PG Music, PeterGannon

Link Copied to Clipboard

ChatPG

Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.

ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.

PG Music News

April 25, 2024

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Windows is Here!

Band-in-a-Box^® 2024 für Windows Deutsch ist verfügbar!

Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 und mehr!

Paket | Was ist Neu

April 12, 2024

Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!

Add updated printing options, enhanced tracks settings, smoother use of MGU and SGU (BB files) within PowerTracks, and more with the latest PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 update!

Learn more about this free update for PowerTracks Pro Audio & download it at www.pgmusic.com/support_windows_pt.htm#2024_5

April 09, 2024

The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!

The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!

Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.

This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245

April 05, 2024

The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option

Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!

Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!

For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.

Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.

Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!

Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.

Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.

April 04, 2024

Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!

Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!

With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!

Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111

March 28, 2024

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!

If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.

A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."

"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."

"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."

March 15, 2024

Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!

The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!

There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.

If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.

We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!

More News