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180122new Hello Folks, Another piece of noise in A major with the occasional borrowed chord. I'm still learning to mix the new drum stuff. This has NashvilleRadioPop8ths multitracks...I left the room mic track aside and use only a TINY bit of the "bullet" room, (I assume it's compressed or something). 689 organ B3 background pop Ev85 converted to mono so it's sit better 3993organ soloist funky Even Charles Ev120 left as stereo to better demonstrate the MDA leslie. Written in BIAB, tracks exported via Export Audio centred and dry and imported via insert in Reaper. BIAB VST used in CHORD CHART form during tracking, (I LOVE that aspect). BIAB guitars and bass replaced. New drum mix: 19/01/22 tweak I ditched the established start with OH and reinforce as required process and threw on a high pass to use the OHs simply as a cymbals stereo track. The stereo image should be more "trad", (I discovered one of my monitors was nudged out of alignment which wouldn't have helped). I overdid the kick a little...trying to hear it clearly to balance kick n click. New mix. This multitracks for this set of drums is problematic...the toms are FULL of cymbals and gating wasn't effective becasue there was so much cymbal level that the gate had a very narrow window and became a mess. I've had to kill tom tracks during the ride ride as well as automate a high shelf cut on the OHs. In other areas I've reduced the ping pong of the rhythm guitars ...I LOVED it while tracking as it was a fun syncopation exercise but it's dreary after a few listens.I've replaced the "solo" added a BIAB RealTrack arpeggio guitar to balance the now panned main organ etc etc etc. 210122 mix When I "wrote" this it was at 120bpm but I discovered I couldn't swap chords THAT fast so this is at 100bpm. The soloist is a combo of two renders and I used the MDA Leslie VST to "ramp" speed up & down. Bass is a very cheap Hofner knock off through a BDI21 with a receive "dirt" track set up using a Klon clone VST across a fairly narrow freq band to give some grit. Guitar is a quite cheap Mustang Bullet Squire through an ACtone pedal, (folks are napping so I can't LPUG IN). Some tremolo on the chorus guitars (just playing the root notes) and that's about it. No lyrics or melody. I don't think this one is up to snuff for making into a song but the drums thing needs learning so I'm banging away. Any/ALL comments, suggestions, asides, backstories welcome.
Last edited by rayc; 01/20/22 04:13 PM.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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ray,
The guitars are quite nice, playing off of each other (almost a ping-pong effect).
Bass sounds good.
The background organ is nice, but doesn't have quite the "punch" that I think it should (but it's close).
The organ solo (on the other hand) was pretty loud and a bit too shrill (it really jumped out of my speakers).
The snare sounds like it is panned pretty far left (too far for my tastes).
The kick needs more punch.
Listening to the "drum mix" as a whole, the ride is more dominant than I like (but, keep in mind, cymbals almost always bug me - particularly dominant rides). This would be during the chorus, I am guessing (?) since they come and go.
Keep 'em coming... fun to hear this stuff...
fj
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I tend to agree with Floyd for the most part on this, Much of the B3 solos almost sound like they're in the wrong key, but then the chord progression is weird too, to my ears... my favorite part is the B3 at the end, when the Leslie slows down.
Your guitar & bass sound is very good... just my take on it.
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ray,
The guitars are quite nice, playing off of each other (almost a ping-pong effect).
Bass sounds good.
The background organ is nice, but doesn't have quite the "punch" that I think it should (but it's close).
The organ solo (on the other hand) was pretty loud and a bit too shrill (it really jumped out of my speakers).
The snare sounds like it is panned pretty far left (too far for my tastes).
The kick needs more punch.
Listening to the "drum mix" as a whole, the ride is more dominant than I like (but, keep in mind, cymbals almost always bug me - particularly dominant rides). This would be during the chorus, I am guessing (?) since they come and go.
Keep 'em coming... fun to hear this stuff...
fj Thanks FJ, regarding the drums...yep. For this set I allowed some of the problems to shine through. There's a lot of snare in the OHs and the snare is well off centre and the cymbals, are mainly in the overheads which are more active on one side than the other. The standard kick is quite clicky and the sub is too low to help with than. In many a good drum mix the OHs are augmented by the close mics only as needed. As you can hear with this set that isn't going to be a useful option. This'll need a lot more snare top for location in the mix and snare bottom for crack. Obviously there's much more to do as you can hear but I thought'd it'd be illustrative to throw up a quickie that has the quirks still in. The organs...trying to match their tones at present...levels are sloppy and the psych effect of the leslie is interesting as faster seems louder. I've wondered about how many folk are delving into the newly available drum tracks given it is a fair bit of work for results many may not require. Thanks.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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I tend to agree with Floyd for the most part on this, Much of the B3 solos almost sound like they're in the wrong key, but then the chord progression is weird too, to my ears... my favorite part is the B3 at the end, when the Leslie slows down.
Your guitar & bass sound is very good... just my take on it. Bloc, YES, the slowing leslie is a joy less heard. It's difficult to hear that aspect in a full mix. The progression is, for the most part, wandering up n down Amaj from F# to a lower G#. BIAB often has trouble with quick change chord and the "Chorus" in this one is rather busy with the 1st bar being A A Bm C3 then the second Bm Bm C# D etc. Thank you.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Ray,
you are good at creating unusual progressions. Looks like you had some fun with this, digging deeper into drum world. Too much hat (cymbals?) for my taste - but it's a taste thing. Organ that starts 2:46 sounds a bit too loud in my setup. Cool experimental piece. Thank you for sharing.
Misha.
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Hi Ray,
I listened to both the melodies. The sound of the '18' was a bit thin, in the '19' that was improved.
Like Misha wrote, you are very creative in doing all kinds of 'experimental' music. Not always my thing, but I like it when people let creativity go.
About the sound of the instruments; I think they don't come alive. Especially the drums didn't. And the organ was (maybe too) dominant. Also I heard 'waves' in the volume of the instruments during the song. As if you turned away or towards the mike. Maybe that was meant as an experiment too, I don't know. But as I said, I like how you always search beyond boundaries (if that is a proper sentence in English).
Regards,
Hans
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Ray,
you are good at creating unusual progressions. Looks like you had some fun with this, digging deeper into drum world. Too much hat (cymbals?) for my taste - but it's a taste thing. Organ that starts 2:46 sounds a bit too loud in my setup. Cool experimental piece. Thank you for sharing.
Misha.
Thanks Misha - just walking up n down Amaj mainly. the cymbals are the main issue in this set of multitracks...well them and the mount of cymbal bleed in to the Toms. I THINK I have it better in hand with this mix...little by little. Bit by bit.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Hi Ray,
I listened to both the melodies. The sound of the '18' was a bit thin, in the '19' that was improved.
Like Misha wrote, you are very creative in doing all kinds of 'experimental' music. Not always my thing, but I like it when people let creativity go.
About the sound of the instruments; I think they don't come alive. Especially the drums didn't. And the organ was (maybe too) dominant. Also I heard 'waves' in the volume of the instruments during the song. As if you turned away or towards the mike. Maybe that was meant as an experiment too, I don't know. But as I said, I like how you always search beyond boundaries (if that is a proper sentence in English).
Regards,
Hans The drum mix is the point of this track Hans so I shall endeavour to revive them. Could the 'waves" be the Leslie speaker sim on the organ?
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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So much "progressive" music Back In The Day was trashed by primitive technology, to the point where you had to compute in your listener head if it would have sounded good if it didn't sound awful, then go by that. A lot of that stuff is actually better read about than listened to on record – though it must have sounded great in the studio.
Your music reminds me of some of that, except it allows us to hear what might have been heard, because your mixes do not suck.
Your chord progressions sound a little chunky to me sometimes, but I think that has something to do with the nature of BIAB and can be an acquired taste.
PS – Isn't versioning a PITA? I wish there were a better way to present songs in development here so that people can easily follow updates.
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Ray,
Thanks for posting this experimental stuff you are doing! It's kind of a primer course for those of us who haven't dealt with the new version. I do feel those drums sound pretty good though. Thanks, Torrey
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PS – Isn't versioning a PITA? I wish there were a better way to present songs in development here so that people can easily follow updates.
Thanks Mark, You're very kind. Yes, it's the sort of thing that, properly, should have it's own page BUT it's the ears in here that I want to hear things and comment upon them so it's a case of needs must.
Cheers
rayc
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Ray,
Thanks for posting this experimental stuff you are doing! It's kind of a primer course for those of us who haven't dealt with the new version. I do feel those drums sound pretty good though. Thanks, Torrey Ta Torrey, I suspect the multi tracks won't be too popular given how easily & well BIAB sets up a song as well as most folks being pretty happy with the status quo. on the other hand some may be enticed if I don't make it seem too hard a task. It's certainly a way to get the grey stuff ticking. I've not delved into the other major developments yet. Once I have the drums in my head I'll be able to move on.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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I listened to several of the recordings and they all sound good to me. I was waiting for your vocals to come in but they never did. You should put some of your fine lyrics to the music.
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Hi Ray,
Well, not really noise.
Sounds quite nice, but we agree with Floyd.
Successful experiment.
Rob and Anne-Marie
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We listened to all. It will be late spring before Mac 2022 is available so plenty of time for you other folks to sort things out with the drums  I appreciate your time and effort to show some of your results with them. At this point I feel I will likely stay with my primitive "double certain kit components" and process them differently approach. Being an old bluegrass bass thumper who never in 35 years of gigging played with a drummer I'm reticent to go too deep in the rabbit hole. Thanks for the demos. J&B
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We listened to all.
At this point I feel I will likely stay with my primitive "double certain kit components" and process them differently approach.
Thanks Bud, the "stems" really would enable you to do what you already do but rather easier. If you select MIX & stems you'll get both in the BIAB mixer. You can export the drums stereo mix as well as those elements you're likely to reinforce - the snare for instance. It's there, perfectly matches...no need to copy & paste ad nauseum, then treat as you always do so well. Doing just that will be my next experiment.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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I never want to miss a RayC post or comments. You always pack in so much knowledge and help. I've learned a lot from you, m'man. Yeah, I too wish the stems were a bit cleaner.
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