Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread
Print Thread
Go To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,872
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,872
Originally Posted By: rockstar_not
As someone who has worked extensively in anechoic chambers, it is highly disturbing to be in one for any length of time.


Oh yes... "Any length of time" could be as short as minutes. It's a very uncomfortable environment.


As an aside...
I've just remembered a track I was listening to some time back, I became distracted trying to work out why it somehow just sounded "wrong". Eventually I realised what it was ... I could hear the piano with bass notes to the left and treble notes to the right, but I could also hear the player, and the player was clearly further away than the piano ... but wouldn't be, of course. Unless someone had swapped around the L/R channels. I guess the producer wanted it that way and thought nobody would notice.


Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts
BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
R
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
R
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
There is a recording of Nils Frahm on a piano that is an ‘upright’ super grand piano that spans a couple of stories that I have which has no covers on any of the key mechanisms. You can hear all of the shuffling sounds of the force transfers from his fingers to the strings. In that regard it is a bit noisy and disconcerting. But on another hand it is quite beautiful sounding as the piano seems to have an almost ‘living and breathing’ sound. Years ago it was a free download. It’s two parts. The first is called “solo” and the second part is called “solo remains”. They are glorious recordings. I hope you can still get them somewhere. Supposedly they are fully improvised.

Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,688
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,688
Originally Posted By: rockstar_not
There is a recording of Nils Frahm on a piano that is an ‘upright’ super grand piano that spans a couple of stories that I have which has no covers on any of the key mechanisms. You can hear all of the shuffling sounds of the force transfers from his fingers to the strings. In that regard it is a bit noisy and disconcerting. But on another hand it is quite beautiful sounding as the piano seems to have an almost ‘living and breathing’ sound. Years ago it was a free download. It’s two parts. The first is called “solo” and the second part is called “solo remains”. They are glorious recordings. I hope you can still get them somewhere. Supposedly they are fully improvised.

https://www.nilsfrahm.com/works/solo-remains/

Free download still

Last edited by Mark Hayes; 01/13/22 06:56 AM.
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
R
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
R
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Originally Posted By: Mark Hayes
Originally Posted By: rockstar_not
There is a recording of Nils Frahm on a piano that is an ‘upright’ super grand piano that spans a couple of stories that I have which has no covers on any of the key mechanisms. You can hear all of the shuffling sounds of the force transfers from his fingers to the strings. In that regard it is a bit noisy and disconcerting. But on another hand it is quite beautiful sounding as the piano seems to have an almost ‘living and breathing’ sound. Years ago it was a free download. It’s two parts. The first is called “solo” and the second part is called “solo remains”. They are glorious recordings. I hope you can still get them somewhere. Supposedly they are fully improvised.

https://www.nilsfrahm.com/works/solo-remains/

Free download still


Yesss!!!

Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,192
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,192
Interesting...

"Panned mono" should not be confused with true stereo.

Nothing wrong with recording a voice in true stereo — I do it all the time — but you need to understand what you are doing so that the result sounds natural. Start with a good sounding room…

Brian Wilson was publicised as being the first engineer to create artificial stereo with pan pots. He didn't invent the technique, of course, but you wouldn't know that from the buzz in the 1960s. That Capital board spent many years in a San Jose studio and I did many recordings on it over the years. BTW, Brian's deaf in one ear


BIAB 2023 Audiophile, 24/60 Core M2 Mac Studio Ultra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer 11, LogicPro
Finale27.4, Dorico5, Encore5, SmartScorePro64, Notion6, Overture5
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,294
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,294
Harv, I experimented with drums once where I split stereo to mono and then cloned each side so I had 2 of each. The 2 lefts I panned one to the wall and one half way, and then did the same for the right. It was noticeable but not so much as it was worth the trouble. I played with adding different reverb to the 2 "outside" channels and that created the illusion of more space somewhat.

Last edited by eddie1261; 01/13/22 04:23 PM.

I smashed the hell out of my car today. When the cops came I told him "Officer, that guy was BOTH texting and drinking a beer." The cop said "Sir, he has every right to do that. I mean, it's HIS living room..."
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,294
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,294
I laid out this analogy once to explain panning and it may or may not fit this situation, but I'll do it anyway.

Imagine you are on a baseball diamond standing on home plate, and all the players are directly behind the pitcher. You can only see 1 player. That is center channel.

Now have the shortstop and 2nd baseman go to their position. Now you can see 3 players.
Then do the same for the 1st and 3rd basemen. Now you see 5 players.
Then have the left and right fielders go to position. Now you can see 7.

Looking at it now, you have 2 players panned hard left and right, 2 slightly toward center, 2 slightly more toward center, and there are 3 in a row. The catcher, pitcher and center fielder are vocals, bass and drums, right down the middle. The instruments are then 3 each left and right at different positions on the field, or degrees of panning.

So to the OP, since drum kits are many instruments at different degrees of placement from the listener's ears, they should be stereo. So things like tom tom sweeps can pan from side to side.

Last edited by eddie1261; 01/17/22 04:20 PM.

I smashed the hell out of my car today. When the cops came I told him "Officer, that guy was BOTH texting and drinking a beer." The cop said "Sir, he has every right to do that. I mean, it's HIS living room..."
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,872
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,872
I tried to write a cricket analogy for we Brits, but I think it may be impossible laugh


Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts
BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 1,629
PG Music Staff
Offline
PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 1,629
Originally Posted By: Gordon Scott
I tried to write a cricket analogy for we Brits, but I think it may be impossible laugh

As a fellow Brit this gave me a giggle laugh

Cricket is merely baseball with no panning


I work here
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
R
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
R
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Originally Posted By: Simon - PG Music
Originally Posted By: Gordon Scott
I tried to write a cricket analogy for we Brits, but I think it may be impossible laugh

As a fellow Brit this gave me a giggle laugh

Cricket is merely baseball with no panning


Or perhaps a Rick Rubin drum track

Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,169
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,169
After a number of weeks couch bound, watching Ashes tests (Australia vs England) I’m not sure a cricket analogy would be a good thing.

Stick to music or baseball I’d say.;-0

Tony

Last edited by Teunis; 01/18/22 04:11 PM.

HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home,
Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612
BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
R
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
R
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Originally Posted By: Simon - PG Music
Originally Posted By: Mark Hayes
Originally Posted By: Simon - PG Music
Basically, most instruments do not benefit from having two microphones put in front of them, unless they are either very large sound sources or they are actually collections of multiple smaller instruments. Typically this means that most instruments are best recorded in mono.

Doesn't it matter, though, if the listener is using headphones or not? A stereo mix of a singer on phones can sound very different from a mono recording even if the mics are only inches apart (and I'm not even thinking of "binaural" or "spatial" audio.)

I can see, though, why it might be preferable to "stereoify" such recordings during post-production rather than actually using two microphones (which I believe a tool like Logic's Direction Mixer does, as opposed to simple panning.)

You're talking about the mixing stage now, forget about that for a second. Grab a microphone and sing into it and record that - no effects, no mixing, nothing. Now grab two microphones and sing into them and record it. The two-mic recording will not sound "stereo" because the origin of your voice is one single point (your mouth). Any difference between the two mics will simply be due to proximity from each mic, or slight differences in the reverb in the room due to that mic's placement, or simply the fact that you have two microphones and therefore double the signal, which will make it louder (and we all know that louder sounds better).

Once you're in the mixing stage and you're adding stereo reverbs or stereo chorus or effects like that, then certainly it'll sound different if you flip it to mono.


Nice response. More clear than my reply a couple pages back.

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Go To
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
ChatPG

Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.

ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.

PG Music News
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!

If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.

A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."

"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."

"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."

Happy Easter! Holiday Hours...

2024 is well underway - it's already Easter Weekend!

Our Customer Service hours this weekend are:

Friday, March 29: 8-4
Saturday, March 30: 8-4
Sunday, March 31: closed

Regular hours resume Monday, April 1st - no joke!

Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!

The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!

There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.

If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.

We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!

Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.

Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed!

Video: Volume Automation in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created a video to help you learn more about the Volume Automation options in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows.

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Volume Automation

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#volume-automation

Video: Audio Input Monitoring with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created this short video to explain Audio Input Monitoring within Band-in-a-Box® 2024, and included some tips & troubleshooting details too!

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Audio Input Monitoring

3:17: Tips
5:10: Troubleshooting

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#audio-input-monitoring

Video: Enhanced Melodists in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®!

We've enhanced the Melodists feature included in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows!

Access the Melodist feature by pressing F7 in the program to open the new MultiPicker Library and locate the [Melodist] tab.

You can now generate a melody on any track in the program - very handy! Plus, you select how much of the melody you want generated - specify a range, or apply it to the whole track.

See the Melodist in action with our video, Band-in-a-Box® 2024: The Melodist Window.

Learn even more about the enhancements to the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024upgrade/chapter3.htm#enhanced-melodist

Forum Statistics
Forums66
Topics81,399
Posts732,550
Members38,442
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
Newest Members
danielsk, Mark Morgan, zagrajbarke, Ernest J, Izzy
38,442 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
MarioD 199
Al-David 132
DC Ron 115
rsdean 85
dcuny 83
Today's Birthdays
(charlie), WobblyGstring
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5