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Nothing is "out of key" if you can find a way to get it to fit.

Ask any jazz musician.


You can find my music at:
www.herbhartley.com
Add nothing that adds nothing to the music.
You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.

The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Billy, watch this video. Go in to 7:25 to avoid most of the annoying white guy who really thinks he can play but can't really, and listen to what Victor Wooten has to say about "wrong" notes. Then read what Herb said again.

There are no rules. You write your story the way you want to write it. No notes are wrong if you know where to put them. And HOW to put them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHdo1qWNWI4

Last edited by eddie1261; 01/22/22 01:19 PM.

I smashed the hell out of my car today. When the cops came I told him "Officer, that guy was BOTH texting and drinking a beer." The cop said "Sir, he has every right to do that. I mean, it's HIS living room..."
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The numbered chords, favoured progressions are just that - favoured by ears after much time & exposure to them.
Mathematics supports them and their on going use perpetuates them.
Being lead by your ears to a set of chords that match a preferred pattern isn't coincidental - it's conditioning but can be fought against.
Choosing to use the number formulation because it's a "rule" is also a matter of conditioning.

If one is exposed to a wide variety of western and non western musical forms and pieces as well as to western forms that have "different" rules well enough and early enough conditions the ear to other options.
Mark Hayes is treading some of those paths at the moment and presenting the User Showcase forum with interesting, sometimes challenging non standard variations of western musical traditions. It's fun.


Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Originally Posted By: rayc
If one is exposed to a wide variety of western and non western musical forms and pieces as well as to western forms that have "different" rules well enough and early enough conditions the ear to other options.

Mark Hayes is treading some of those paths at the moment and presenting the User Showcase forum with interesting, sometimes challenging non standard variations of western musical traditions. It's fun.

Hey wow I know that guy!

Thanks for the plug, Ray.

I had a coworker years ago who found the idea of an acquired taste absolutely hilarious. “The idea of an acquired taste is absurd!” he would say, before erupting into gales of forced laughter. Translation: he liked what he liked and that was that, the idea that he might be missing something — even something he might later come to appreciate — was inconceivable to him, and he disavowed any such “conversions” in advance as pretentious intellectualism.

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Arnold Schoenberg’s Verklarte Nacht was, at least according to him, rejected for performance because it contained a single chord which did not exist within contemporary theory. The image here is from his text, you can see it’s an Ab7 with a Bb in the bass, an inverted 9th, eek.

Well, said a chastened Arnie, I can’t blame them, one can’t very well ask a musician to play something which doesn’t exist.

https://monoskop.org/images/8/84/Schoenberg_Arnold_Style_and_Idea.pdf (image p. 189)

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Last edited by Mark Hayes; 01/31/22 07:13 AM.
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Originally Posted By: eddie1261
Billy, watch this video. Go in to 7:25 to avoid most of the annoying white guy who really thinks he can play but can't really, and listen to what Victor Wooten has to say about "wrong" notes. Then read what Herb said again.

There are no rules. You write your story the way you want to write it. No notes are wrong if you know where to put them. And HOW to put them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHdo1qWNWI4


cool video and a lot of truth in there.


You can find my music at:
www.herbhartley.com
Add nothing that adds nothing to the music.
You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.

The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
Songwriting
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Posts: 7,293
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Herb he also has one about Music as a Language that there are several versions of. I think he did one as a Ted Talk and then reprised it several times in clinics. It is SO true!

He once made a comment about theory that made me laugh. He was asked about theory. His reply was that theory is like the tools in your car for changing a tire. You keep those in the trunk, not in the front seat. You just pull them out when you need them. That was a great analogy.


I smashed the hell out of my car today. When the cops came I told him "Officer, that guy was BOTH texting and drinking a beer." The cop said "Sir, he has every right to do that. I mean, it's HIS living room..."
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