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Mr. Mario,

You keep speaking of this MIDI. What is it? Is it a note that sits in the middle of another note on a Real Track?

If so, how do I change it?

Also, if I have a wind controller, do I open up my front door to get some wind in before I use it? How do I get that wind into Band-in-a-Box??

Also I have heard you say you don't use real tracks. If not, what kind of track are you using? A fake track? Or maybe an invisible track?? Is it an invisible track in Logic? I am looking but I can't find it.

Also, who makes Band-in-a-Box and why did they make it?

If you can write a full reply to all of my questions I would appreciate it.

Thanks, I will sit here and wait while you type.

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Originally Posted By: David Snyder
If you can write a full reply to all of my questions I would appreciate it.

I think the answer is probably 42.


Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
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It has always been my belief that if you want the best out of something one needs to learn about it. I used to read manuals from cover to cover (spent a lot of my working life doing just that). In the case of BIAB the manual is way too large and is very detailed. The trick then becomes to know how to find what you’re looking for.

The really good thing is that PG provide really good videos on most aspects of their product but if you want to get the best out of them you need to look at them.

There is also any amount of really great assistance in the forums but once again you need to read it and/or ask questions. Once again it is about learning stuff.

The issue as I see it for a number of folk they want the answer before they know the question. Impatience is what really slows down the learning for a lot of folks. To learn something as huge as BIAB takes a lot of time. To learn the ins and outs of music production takes even more time.

No single resource can provide all the answers. The best thing in my opinion is to come to know what you want to know. Ask the question and try things and not get upset when it doesn’t work first go. Sometimes one needs to try and try then try again.

I have backing tracks I was happy with years ago then play them again and find something that needs tweaking. Why because I’ve learnt a lot more over the past few years. I think most of us continue to learn. It requires patience.

My two bobs worth

Tony

Last edited by Teunis; 03/21/22 12:20 PM.

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Originally Posted By: David Snyder

Mr. Mario,

You keep speaking of this MIDI. What is it? Is it a note that sits in the middle of another note on a Real Track?

If so, how do I change it?


No it is not a note in the middle of another note. It means My Interesting Diverse Instruments.

Originally Posted By: David Snyder

Also, if I have a wind controller, do I open up my front door to get some wind in before I use it? How do I get that wind into Band-in-a-Box??


No, you do not need to open doors all you need is a lot of hot air. To get wind into Band-in-a-Box just blow very hard into the hard drive.


Originally Posted By: David Snyder

Also I have heard you say you don't use real tracks. If not, what kind of track are you using? A fake track? Or maybe an invisible track?? Is it an invisible track in Logic? I am looking but I can't find it.


In place of Real Tracks I use Deer Tracks. You are probably looking for them in in the wrong places.


Originally Posted By: David Snyder

Also, who makes Band-in-a-Box and why did they make it?


The elves in some northern country makes it. They made it so I can use it and complain about it.

Originally Posted By: David Snyder

If you can write a full reply to all of my questions I would appreciate it.

Thanks, I will sit here and wait while you type.



I hope I didn't make you wait to long.


Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.

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Wait....

Is tech support there???

Does Kent still work there??

Help!!

How can I turn on my computer????

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Originally Posted By: Gordon Scott
I think the answer is probably 42.

Incorrect, it's 37. Has to be a prime number. grin




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Originally Posted By: MarioD
OK here is my 2 cents and I'll probably get called on some of it.

1- A lot of manuals are written from the coders' perspective and not from a user's perspective. When I was writing Standard Operating Procedures I had to gorilla proof them; that is take them to someone not from that area and have them try them out. You can learn a lot about writing that way.



Fair point about the documentation. Sometimes it is poorly written or otherwise inadequate.

I'm looking at YOU, Ford, and your service literature with BS colored drawings and NO explanatory text!

Sometimes, there are things in the documentation that are just plain wrong. Still, this should be the first place you look. One can always seek clarification.

More often than not, the documentation is correct.


Originally Posted By: MarioD
2-Google/Bing is your friend. Many do not want to or do not know how to look up information on the web. Just keep typing using different words/terminology until you find what you need.


The problem with internet searches is that you often find information that is outdated, misleading or outright wrong. At least by going to the documentation first you have a fighting chance.

Originally Posted By: MarioD
3-Some people want to be spoon fed in lieu of doing a little research.

Yep. And that's the problem. 99.9% of basic questions could be answered by spending 15 minutes with the documentation. Instead of signing up for the forum, asking the same question that has been asked 1000 times before and waiting perhaps days for a response that may or may not be correct.

Originally Posted By: MarioD
4-Some want to do things that BiaB was not intended to do. Its an accompaniment generating software. Its not a DAW or notation program. PGM tries hard to accommodate all but their last few new features were not ready for prime time and that confuses everyone.


Originally Posted By: MarioD
5-The PGM manual is very confusing, see #1.


Originally Posted By: MarioD
6-MIDI is not audio and going away from general MIDI is a learning curve. Do some research first.


You are absolutely correct. And this brings us back to the spoon-feeding part.

Originally Posted By: MarioD
We are very fortunate to have a lot of friendly people willing to help here but sometimes I think they get taken advantage of.


I have a general rule of not helping those who won't help themselves.

Originally Posted By: MarioD
If you are going into computer based music you must first know about your computer, then your software,and then your sound card in order to produce music. PGM makes it very simple to get great sounding backing tracks via RTs but that is the only simple thing to learn for someone new.

YMMV


Yep. One wonders how someone could expect to learn how to play guitar without learning how to tune it or learning some scales & chords.

Last edited by Byron Dickens; 03/22/22 08:13 AM.

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Thanx Byron for backing me up. It is nice to know that others have the same opinions as I have on this issue.


Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.

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Originally Posted By: Charlie Fogle
My suggestion to help new users with correct settings would be to recommend they return the interface they purchased and replace it with a quality stand alone, digital multi track recorder from Zoom or Tascam No latency, interface settings, crashes, deep menus, hours of setup and troubleshooting.

They can have recorded their first song in an hour. There’s no steep learning curve and it will last for years and will never become obsolete.

Best of all, they come with complete step by step instructional manuals with pictures, arrows circles, etc.


The problem I find is most people don't read the instruction manuals, or look at the pictures etc. I have tried to help people in person before. I ask them where the manual is for their equipment and I get a deer in the headlights look. There is a manual? Sure, sometimes, most times now, it is a pdf from the web site. Not too many printed manuals anymore. The manufacturer's web site usually has good videos too. Just like PG Music does.

I find the BIAB manual a little obtuse. That's just me. It should be way more helpful. Sometimes a picture would be very helpful and it does not have one. It sometimes calls menu items or buttons by names that are not actually what they are called in the program which can be really confusing and I have been using BIAB since it was on floppy disks way back.

Last edited by etcjoe; 03/22/22 10:00 AM.

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The idea of creating vetted libraries is a good idea. I'm a natural pessimist though so I worry that creating, editing, vetting and maintaining such a library would quickly prove exhausting to those that choose to participate. While I'm not a fan of big tech but Google offers online file storage and online editing tools.

Question to the other posters, when you say the Band-in-a-Box manual is obtuse do you mean the older format (17.9 MB and 449 pages) full version, the newer (8.4 MB and 152 pages) essentials format or both?

Do you know the Table of Content and Index entries are hyperlinks? PG Music started this several years ago at the request of several forum members.


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<" The problem I find is most people don't read the instruction manuals, or look at the pictures etc. I have tried to help people in person before. I ask them where the manual is for their equipment and I get a deer in the headlights look." >

I agree and it seems to be a common thread throughout this particular discussion. Of course there's also the issue of novices not understanding computers, interfaces, Windows, Asio drivers and the difference between MIDI and audio.

It's true helpers are at a loss when a person has an issue and doesn't provide any information other than it's a computer, and some kind of 'thing' that supposed to have a microphone connection so it will record to his computer and BIAB tracks.

It's different if someone were to post a problem with perhaps, a Tascam DP-24. No problem. No manual necessary, no specs are necessary. That person's DP-24 is the same as everyone else's DP-24. Same hardware, same firmware, same specs, same screen, same OS, same editing features and the same knobs, buttons, switches, inputs, outputs and routing. So anyone familiar with that device can help and have that user up and running in minutes.

These hardware devices are ideally suited and work extremely well with a program like BIAB that's generating high quality tracks to work with.


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Just one observation.

Anyone who has spent five minutes around "high-creatives" knows they are apt to throw instruction manuals into the air and scream if they have to search for an answer to their question for more than five seconds. Patience would not be the first word that comes to mind.

As in: "I just want to record my song!! Where is the big green button!!"

A lot of the manual wording choices and even videos are made for techies and are written in techie speak and move really fast in places.

The very best songwriters I have ever met really struggle with technology at times.

I struggled with some aspects of BIAB as a newbie in 2014 myself and people at PG and many on this forum helped me a lot.

When I finally figured it all out, I realized there were only about 10 things I really needed to master, and after that I was off to the races.

I have tried many times to return to the favor with people who helped me with technology, by helping them with the more ephemeral aspects of their songs. And it worked. So, all of us have areas where we are stronger, I guess.

smile


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Originally Posted By: David Snyder
Just one observation.

Anyone who has spent five minutes around "high-creatives" knows they are apt to throw instruction manuals into the air and scream if they have to search for an answer to their question for more than five seconds. Patience would not be the first word that comes to mind.

As in: "I just want to record my song!! Where is the big green button!!"

A lot of the manual wording choices and even videos are made for techies and are written in techie speak and move really fast in places.

The very best songwriters I have ever met really struggle with technology at times.

I struggled with some aspects of BIAB as a newbie in 2014 myself and people at PG and many on this forum helped me a lot.

When I finally figured it all out, I realized there were only about 10 things I really needed to master, and after that I was off to the races.

I have tried many times to return to the favor with people who helped me with technology, by helping them with the more ephemeral aspects of their songs. And it worked. So, all of us have areas where we are stronger, I guess.

smile



Im definitely not in the 'highly creative' category but eo much of the above applies to me.
I still use an old, old DAW that has the equivalent of the Big Green Button. Its biggest drawback is to have to render the tracks in BB to 16bit 44100 and then load them into the DAW one by one. I'll live with it.
So much modern software has vast amounts of Tech for those who are Technonymphomanics (never satisfied) that its got in the way of making Music.
Sometimes I wish I could have my BB2019 back but with ALL the RTs, Extra packs etc up to present. Ah well.
But, like you I've found that I dont need 90% of BBs 'Tech' so the 10% that I know how to use successfully can be shared on our excellent Forum,who always put up with my often dumb questions.
Bests
Ian

Last edited by sixchannel; 03/25/22 04:22 AM.

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Originally Posted By: David Snyder
Just one observation.

Anyone who has spent five minutes around "high-creatives" knows they are apt to throw instruction manuals into the air and scream if they have to search for an answer to their question for more than five seconds. Patience would not be the first word that comes to mind.

As in: "I just want to record my song!! Where is the big green button!!"





So how do they master their creative endeavors? How do they learn how to play an instrument? Paint/ draw? Act?

Its not like those things come instantaneously.

"High creatives" can learn what they want to learn. Find the why and you'll find the how.

Originally Posted By: David Snyder


A lot of the manual wording choices and even videos are made for techies and are written in techie speak and move really fast in places.


It really behoves one to get a handle on the technical language involved. Technical language is important because it conveys precise meanings and ensures that everyone is talking about the same thing.


I think perhaps too many people who consider themselves "creatives" buy into the tropes and stereotypes....


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"Technical language is important because it conveys precise meanings and ensures that everyone is talking about the same thing."
These days it gets in the way of BB Creativity whatever that is, IMO. I've lost count of the 'Projects' I've lost heart with as I couldn't understand the BB Tech that went with what I was trying to do.

I always thought BB was about making Music - an easy way of creating MUSIC - not an extension of Computer Science. I don't read music, but then again many great Guitarists do not, and it doesnt get in the way of them picking up a guitar and playing.
Bests
Ian


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ALL TRACKS - https://app.box.com/s/501rnzrbadng1elvi45hbf7y08kl5oxp
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Originally Posted By: sixchannel
"Technical language is important because it conveys precise meanings and ensures that everyone is talking about the same thing."
These days it gets in the way of BB Creativity whatever that is, IMO. I've lost count of the 'Projects' I've lost heart with as I couldn't understand the BB Tech that went with what I was trying to do.


You're making my point for me.

Do you realize how self-contradictory your statement is?

Not understanding the language is what's getting in the way. If you learned the tech aspect, you wouldn't struggle as much and you'd be able to accomplish what you wanted - because you would understand the manual.

Can't you see that?


Originally Posted By: sixchannel

I always thought BB was about making Music - an easy way of creating MUSIC - not an extension of Computer Science.


It is about making music.

I infer from your comment that you play guitar, correct? Did you spend a great deal of time and effort in learning how to play?


Originally Posted By: sixchannel

I don't read music, but then again many great Guitarists do not, and it doesnt get in the way of them picking up a guitar and playing.
Bests
Ian


But I bet if you ask them to play an Am chord, they'd know what you're talking about.

See? Technical language at work.

Jimi Hendrix expressed regret over not knowing how to read music.

Being able to read music and understand at least the rudiments of theory opens up a world that is closed off to you otherwise.

I want you to know I'm not trying to be argumentative here. I'm trying to point out how learning the technical aspects of this stuff opens things up to you and actually frees your creativity.

I'm not any kind of "computer genius" (whatever that is) either. I just learned all this stuff because not knowing it was standing in the way of what I wanted to do. I didn't learn it overnight either; it has taken me years and I am still learning.

But because I had my "why," I found my "how."


Byron Dickens

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That was well said.
I used to be the same way, had to learn *some tech so I could effectively use that 'thing' I just spent a lot of money on (whatever it was).
While doing so I found that I enjoyed learning it (once I started) to the point that I now work in the 'tech' field. Easier on the body than building houses .. plus I enjoy it.
And it helps a lot when using software.


Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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I've only realised recently that there are fairly in-depth documents in the tutorials area on this, but they're all described as "no sound", and they're all a little way down the list. I also think these are troubleshooting, rather than "tutorial".

These may, I think, be a good place to send people who are having issues, as they walk through a number of tests and actions.

I do though still think that the manual should be better focussed first, perhaps pointing people there when there are problems.

Band-in-a-Box® for Windows - No Sound / MIDI Driver Setup
Band-in-a-Box® for Macintosh - No Sound / MIDI Driver Setup
RealBand for Windows - No Sound / MIDI Driver Setup

There's also one for PowerTracks.

Similar "optimising" document(s) might be worthwhile.


Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40.
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This topic is obviously definitely for me then ! Sure theres lots of info, video etc etc, but i have to say all this info is all over the place. I had support on these audio connections issues, they sent me instructions for using MME, which i have to say i,ve not spoken with any one who dos use MME, PG add at the end " if your not using MME , let us know,,,,,,,,,i dont find that helpful if im honest. Why send me the wrong instructions? I understand most use ASIO? Still not successfully connected Mic or guitar as yet nor since 2019. Cant even jam with it. As i understand things, settings need to be set/ changed in the PC [ soundcard? ]and also settings within the BIAB program settings? Beyond that theres POWER management etc to get latency realy low?
Be nice to have a STEP by STEP guide.

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Never got BB to work, never been able to understand the audio settings, theres as many opinions as there are questions,So far i,ve had, " get a MAC" " Get a Scarlet" , " sell it all, your to stupid, " " dont even bother , just get an external recording device" " Heres the settings if your using MME" " Uninstal and start again" That would be my 3rd instal....................................I got BB 2019, its now 2022.
Whats ERROR 1 ? Thats a new error mssg after remote support from PG, he could,nt get my audio setting sorted either, ok so i got another newer audio interface, [ berhinger um2] if any can find the correct drivers/ instal for that i,d be grateful as it says use ASIO4ALL, but others says thats rubbish....................

PG said there is no specific answer. I,d just love to be able to plug a guitar and or mic in..................never have, never will.


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"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."

"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."

"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."

Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!

The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!

There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.

If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.

We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!

Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.

Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed!

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