I did a search on this topic, and the posts I found were several years old, so I'm starting a new one.
I would really like to see an option in Band-in-a-Box to display chords enharmonically. I have a chord chart that is in concert D, but transposed display for tenor saxophone, which is E. This chart includes chords like C# and G#, but BIAB converts them to Db and Ab, which makes no sense in the displayed EMaj key signature. This is really aggravating.
I opened a chat with PG Music, and they confirmed that overriding the chord conversion is not currently possible. When I asked the chat person to forward this as a feature request, she told me to come here as it might get more attention.
So if you think this is a good idea, I hope you'll add your two cents so PG Music will respond!
I definitely support it, but I could actually enter the chords I think you are looking for. I started a new song in the key of D Maj I entered a C# and a G# chord I transposed (Edit > Transpose > Transpose # of semitones) and also via the Key of Song setting. The C# changed to a D# and the G# changed to an Bb, but I could then change the Bb to an A#.
Even with a song in the key of Db I could enter sharpened chords (see 2nd image)
I know you cannot enter Cb or Fb or B# or E# but you mentioned different chords than this.
Could you explain your steps further, also what version / build of BiaB are you running, and is this Windows or Mac?
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Audiotrack, maybe I'm missing something but I think the question is this:
Create a song in the key of D. The most important step is to set the key signature to D (not leave it as C, the default). Add chords of B and F# Use the key signature pull-down, left-hand column, to change D to E The chords now are showing as C# and G#
However, this transposed the audio up a step.
If you want the audio to remain in concert D, then the better way is:
Options, Preferences, Notation, Transpose, change 0 to 2. Now the chords are still showing for tenor sax C# and G#, and there is a little "+2" in the key signature, giving you a visual indication you have a transposition in effect visually only. The song still plays in Concert D so you can play along on your tenor sax. Since you said "transposed display for tenor" I think this is the way you did it.
So, to Saxfiend, it works correctly for me. Therefore, it would help to know if you are on a Mac or Windows version (Windows here), and what year and build of BIAB you are using (2022, Build 920 here). Find this in Help, About. That might make a difference in what you are getting. Then tell us exactly the steps you are using to transpose (as there are several ways to do it).
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Thanks for the clarification Matt. Yes, your method would be the correct one to only change the 'displayed' chords and notation but not change the key.
However, the undesirable enharmonic chord display being described might be related to the version in use. So, yes, we need a little more detail.
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Could you explain your steps further, also what version / build of BiaB are you running, and is this Windows or Mac?
Thanks for responding, here are some more details of my scenario.
First off, I'm running Band-in-a-Box 2021 for Mac. I don't know the build, but I've confirmed that the latest updates are in place. The Mac is on the latest OS (Monterrey).
As I mentioned in my first post, I play tenor sax, which is a transposed instrument (Bb), so I use the BIAB transposition feature to set my chart to display properly for tenor sax. This means that for a song that's in concert D, the playback is in D, but the chords display as E. (I'm sure all of you already know this, but I'm just trying to cover all the bases!) When I start a new song, BIAB recalls this setting from my previous song, so the transposition is already set.
So here are the steps I followed for this specific song (Wave):
1. Open a new song; BIAB displays a blank chord chart in C (or maybe D since the transposition is already set, I can't recall). Next to the key signature, the transposition box displays +14 for tenor sax, as in the attached photo. 2. Change the key signature to E. 3. Enter the chord sequence. 4. In this song, measure 9 is C#-7 on beat 1, F#7 on beat 3. I enter those chords, and BIAB changes them to Db-7, Gb7. Obviously, this is not what I want.
I hope this makes things more clear. As I noted before, PG Music says I can't get these chords to display correctly, but if you know of a way to do this, I'd love to hear it!
Could you elaborate on step 2? Exactly what you did?
When I get to a computer I’ll try to reproduce, but I use BIAB 2022 on Windows.
In general, I do all my songs in concert pitch, then transpose. I play several transposing instruments so this makes it easier to keep track. And that little plus sign is a request from several of us users.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Could you elaborate on step 2? Exactly what you did?
When I get to a computer I’ll try to reproduce, but I use BIAB 2022 on Windows.
In general, I do all my songs in concert pitch, then transpose. I play several transposing instruments so this makes it easier to keep track. And that little plus sign is a request from several of us users.
Hi Matt, sorry I can't figure out how to insert a photo in a post.
In step 2, what I do is click the button for key signature and change it to E. The button I'm referring to is on the line just above the chord chart; the buttons on this line display as |ev8|4/4|E|+14|85|100%|. i.e., |even 8ths|time sig|key sig|transposition|tempo|speed percent|
Hope this helps.
JL
PS -- it makes no difference if I enter in concert pitch then transpose.
OK, humor me and try these steps. It may be a Mac thing, but let's first try this:
Following my recommendation to always work first in concert pitch,
1. Create a new song 2. Change the key signature to D using the box to the left of the tempo, and the left-hand column (Transpose and Set Key Signature) 3. Enter the chords D B F# 4. Go to the key signature box and use the far right area, to the right of the displayed key of D, to select +14 for tenor sax 5. I then see E C# G# and the key remains D, which is the correct concert pitch key, with the visual aid that the +14 visual transposition is in effect. Of course, to a tenor sax player, you would have to realize you are playing in the key of E, but the screen doesn't show it. Think concert pitch...
What chords do you see?
Can't be done? Really? If you don't see what I see, then I think we can conclude it's either a limitation in the Mac version, or an improvement made in version 2022.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Specifically, I followed your steps exactly and got the same results. So then I went back to my existing chart, and changed the transposition display back to concert pitch. The display now showed the concert key chords, but the key signature was still E. So I changed the key signature to D, but with no transposition; this resulted in the displayed chord chart staying the same (the correct chords for concert key), but the key signature now matched the chord chart. Finally, I changed the transposition display back to +14 for tenor sax. Now, the chord chart displays as if it was in E, but the key signature remains D (as you noted). And the chords in question are displaying correctly -- that is, C# is no longer Db, F# is no longer Gb.
I'm pleased that it is solved, for the most part depending on how you do it, and that it works on a Mac running 2021.
You might consider doing two things:
a) contact the PG Music Support person and ask them to read this thread b) go back to your first post where you will see a button that says Mark as Resolved
You probably saw from my avatar that I play several horns, and I have learned to always think in concert pitch. In other words, enter the songs as if you are using a Concert pitch fakebook or lead sheet, not the way Mark described above. Then watch that little + sign that we requested, to make sure you know what transposition is in effect, since as you say, it persists. The other general advice to all is, for this and other reasons, always set the key signature of a new song first. I might put together another short tutorial on this.
You asked a terrific first question here. I look forward to reading more from you. I had to sell my Mark VI tenor (arthritis) but still play soprano. Cheers.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
I'm pleased that it is solved, for the most part depending on how you do it, and that it works on a Mac running 2021.
You might consider doing two things:
a) contact the PG Music Support person and ask them to read this thread b) go back to your first post where you will see a button that says Mark as Resolved
You probably saw from my avatar that I play several horns, and I have learned to always think in concert pitch. In other words, enter the songs as if you are using a Concert pitch fakebook or lead sheet, not the way Mark described above. Then watch that little + sign that we requested, to make sure you know what transposition is in effect, since as you say, it persists. The other general advice to all is, for this and other reasons, always set the key signature of a new song first. I might put together another short tutorial on this.
You asked a terrific first question here. I look forward to reading more from you. I had to sell my Mark VI tenor (arthritis) but still play soprano. Cheers.
Matt -- thanks for the tip on the "resolved" status; I've set this. I'll also follow your advice on forwarding to PG Music, as this setting is either not documented or poorly documented.
The big takeaway here for me is that the key signature is always the concert key, no matter what if any transposition is set. My (incorrect) assumption had been that the key signature button reflected the transposed key.
Now that I know that, I can continue using the +14 display transposition that is my default for new songs, with the awareness that I need to set the key signature for the corresponding concert key. In other words, if I'm copying over a chart from the Bb Real Book that is in G, I just need to set the key signature to F, then just enter the same chords as in the Real Book. I verified this scenario with further experimentation.
Sorry you had to get rid of your Mark VI tenor! I have a Mark VI bari sax, but my tenor and alto are both Balanced Actions.
John, it wasn’t always this way, only in the last handful of years. There are many ways to transpose. That’s why we asked you to explain your exact steps.
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