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#714065 - 04/21/22 12:32 PM [RealBand] Please Fix Real Band Default to Blow Your Ears Out
Registered: 08/29/14
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David Snyder Offline
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I have noticed something about Real Band that occurs when you load a new install, or even under other situations where it opens "fresh."

The master volume is set to 100% by default and if you don't notice, it will blow your ears out.

This has happened to me several times and I had to rip the headphones off with ringing ears.

The default should be 50% and you should have to real hard to get it to 100%.

Can someone please fix this.

Thanks.

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#714067 - 04/21/22 12:36 PM [RealBand] Re: Please Fix Real Band Default to Blow Your Ears Out [Re: David Snyder]
Registered: 01/19/22
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Jerry - PG Music Offline
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Thank you for bringing this to our attention David Snyder, we'll investigate this and pass it along to our development team.
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#714070 - 04/21/22 01:18 PM [RealBand] Re: Please Fix Real Band Default to Blow Your Ears Out [Re: Jerry - PG Music]
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justanoldmuso Offline
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David.

I dont get that behaviour in rb.
With great respect there are many factors that contribute to such behaviour , outside rb's control....
including sound device settings mate that rb doesnt have control over.
Whats your sound device ?
Heres some ideas to consider.
1.make sure rb master vol is set up lower in a blank template you save.
2.Use such blank template when first starting a new rb song….or importing a song from somewhere.
3.Adjust the levels in the sound device you use lower.
For example in my audient device i have such a feature and normally set it lower .
I can actually see in win task bar the win vol slider going up and down as i adjust the volume in the audients
sound device desktop control panel independently of rb.

in summary its all in how the sound device is set up as well.
thus check your sound device control panel if it has one. or physical knobs if you dont. or win vol slider.

hth.

Best
om









Edited by justanoldmuso (04/21/22 01:25 PM)
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#714077 - 04/21/22 02:32 PM [RealBand] Re: Please Fix Real Band Default to Blow Your Ears Out [Re: David Snyder]
Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 1675
Loc: Essex England
Bob Calver Online   content
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I'm quite happy with the way RB opens at 100%. My headphone volume is controlled by the uphoria interface and i don't need to play with RB settings. If it suddenly starts at 50% i'd wonder why my songs went quiet. Or are you asking that your personal settings - master volume at 50% - should carry over from session to session or when you update? that doesn't seem unreasonable if you can't control the volume any other way.

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#714081 - 04/21/22 03:15 PM [RealBand] Re: Please Fix Real Band Default to Blow Your Ears Out [Re: David Snyder]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 21073
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rharv Offline
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For Clarity, are you talking about limiting the All slider (between the tracks and the AUX/Main outs in the mixer view)?
or limiting the main out (A1 slider)

Either one I am against, for the record.
Both of these affect the rendered audio .. so when you go to Render a mix, it would be half as loud.
I prefer working with standard levels throughout the monitoring chain.

In other words, if I have to turn the headphones up on the interface for a video meeting, but set them back to zero for RB, I'd prefer that rather than guessing which part of the whole chain (interface or interface software mixer, or headphone amp, or RB etc) is the issue.
Again, for me, it comes down to these settings affecting the Render option. I'd rather know I am writing a full volume mix.
Maybe, that's just me


Edited by rharv (04/21/22 03:16 PM)
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#714579 - 04/26/22 03:01 PM [RealBand] Re: Please Fix Real Band Default to Blow Your Ears Out [Re: David Snyder]
Registered: 08/29/14
Posts: 6315
Loc: North Carolina
David Snyder Offline
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Maybe I did not explain this well.

If you have a song loaded into Real Band and the master volume is at 100% and you put on headphones and hit play (and your Asio output is set loud enough), you will go deaf.

Sure, you can go to your asio and make sure your output knobs there are set low, but there is no reason why the master volume would need to be set that high under any circumstances and the volume button is so small, it is easy to miss.

The default volume on BIAB is about 50% even after a new install for me. See screenshot below. If it were set at 100% and you didn't see it, and you hit play you would blow your ear drums out if your Asio is turned up high enough. There would never be any reason for it to have a default setting at 100%. That is WAY into the red. Same with Real Band.

I don't really understand the questions around this. It seems obvious to me. Maybe I am missing something.

The master volume for listening has no effect that I know of on rendering tracks. That is different.



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#714584 - 04/26/22 03:26 PM [RealBand] Re: Please Fix Real Band Default to Blow Your Ears Out [Re: David Snyder]
Registered: 05/30/00
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rharv Offline
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Far as I know the Master and A1 sliders have an effect on Rendered tracks in RB.
Can you post an image of the RB setting you think should change? Just to help define/clarify.
Your above image is of BiaB, which is different in many ways (including signal flow)

There are other places to control the main out in RB, and one of them I never fully grasped is the All slider in the mixer (between the left & right panels).
I *think this gets saved per project, so maybe that is where you could adjust it and save it as a test, though my *understanding* is it affects everything down stream, so it would still affect renders of a mix.
Maybe not the 'Save Track to File' action, but actual Render actions, where it runs thru the right side of the Mixer on the way out.
Again, this is just my understanding/experience with RB
FWIW, my normal settings for RB outputs are shown below .. and it doesn't blow my ears out.
Yes they are different than my BiaB settings, but they are different programs.
I'm wondering if something else is causing this, cause I've been using RB a long time without experiencing this issue


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Edited by rharv (04/26/22 03:39 PM)
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#714590 - 04/26/22 03:57 PM [RealBand] Re: Please Fix Real Band Default to Blow Your Ears Out [Re: rharv]
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David Snyder Offline
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Once you use a new install for the first time you have to change this level from 100%.

It will usually save this setting for any project thereafter (I keep it around 60%). But, if for some reason there is a random reset, maybe after an update, and it resets and you do not catch it, it will blow your ear drums out at 100%. At least me. Because of the way I have my asio set.

I have never had this master volume effect anything I know of with regard to renders. That seems to be a whole different thing.

Does this make sense? This is the button I don't want to be defaulting to 100%. And again, it has nothing to do with the volume of renders as far as I know.



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#714661 - 04/27/22 10:11 AM [RealBand] Re: Please Fix Real Band Default to Blow Your Ears Out [Re: David Snyder]
Registered: 12/02/17
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VintageGibson Offline
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If the Master Volume is below 100%, the volume of merged audio, whether to file or within RB, is considerably reduced.

Vintage

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#714718 - 04/27/22 03:17 PM [RealBand] Re: Please Fix Real Band Default to Blow Your Ears Out [Re: VintageGibson]
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rharv Offline
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Thank you VintageGibson

I used the term Render, but Merged is more accurate (though it is under the Render option in recent versions)
I started thinking I was the only one that noticed


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#714734 - 04/27/22 05:43 PM [RealBand] Re: Please Fix Real Band Default to Blow Your Ears Out [Re: David Snyder]
Registered: 06/19/17
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Ember - PG Music Offline
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Hey David! Does this same loudness occur with open speakers or a different pair of headphones by chance?
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#714742 - 04/27/22 07:29 PM [RealBand] Re: Please Fix Real Band Default to Blow Your Ears Out [Re: Ember - PG Music]
Registered: 08/29/14
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David Snyder Offline
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Hi Ember,

In the screenshot I have above, you will see a red arrow pointed at a tiny master volume fader.

If I have tracks in real band of a normal size (of a typical normalization from a BIAB file opening), the output sound goes all the way into the red in RB if the the master volume is at 100%. I.E. It peaks at like 5 dB or whatever it is, all the way into the red, in the zone marked as "clipping" which is enough to blow your ears out.

It is not effected in any way by the volume settings on any part of my Focusrite. I just checked.

I am having a hard time understanding why this is hard to explain.

You push the master fader on anything all the way and it clips.

Sounds like maybe I have the only work station of it's kind in America and the only supernatural copy of Real Band in America though, so perhaps I will have to reverse engineer the code myself.

smile

Or go back to a reel to reel....

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#714774 - 04/28/22 04:15 AM [RealBand] Re: Please Fix Real Band Default to Blow Your Ears Out [Re: rharv]
Registered: 10/28/08
Posts: 443
Loc: Florida
etcjoe Offline
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Originally Posted By: rharv
Thank you VintageGibson

I used the term Render, but Merged is more accurate (though it is under the Render option in recent versions)
I started thinking I was the only one that noticed


I have noticed this as well David. I check the master slider before I play anything in RB to avoid the destruction of my already damaged hearing! I rarely use the merge option and usually save all tracks to audio files option, and then import them into my DAW of choice as I have never really delved deep enough into RB to be comfortable.

My process is usually to audition MIDI files I have created, bought, found etc. in RB and sometimes I save them as audio files for later use, sometimes I don't. The source of the midi files being different, sometimes they are set at very high velocities, volumes, etc. and can be quite loud. So, the master slider is where I control that mostly.

I have never noted any level decrease in those saved audio files.
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#714886 - 04/28/22 02:23 PM [RealBand] Re: Please Fix Real Band Default to Blow Your Ears Out [Re: etcjoe]
Registered: 12/02/17
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VintageGibson Offline
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I agree that the "blow your head off" volume of some midi files can be a problem, but that will be the same whether you open them in RB or any other application.
Just tried out the "save all tracks", master vol has no influence.
Probably the first time I've used it in 20+ years of PowerTracks and RB, just doesn't fit in my workflow.
Re the OP's volume "issue", my RB volume is noticeably lower than my BIAB volume,
probably settings somewhere need to be adjusted, but that's outside my pay grade. If it bothered me enough I would seek assistance.
It's not broken so don't fix it!

Vintage

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#715060 - 04/29/22 06:07 PM [RealBand] Re: Please Fix Real Band Default to Blow Your Ears Out [Re: David Snyder]
Registered: 06/19/17
Posts: 2902
Loc: Victoria, BC
Ember - PG Music Offline
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Registered: 06/19/17
Posts: 2902
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: David Snyder
Hi Ember,

In the screenshot I have above, you will see a red arrow pointed at a tiny master volume fader.

If I have tracks in real band of a normal size (of a typical normalization from a BIAB file opening), the output sound goes all the way into the red in RB if the the master volume is at 100%. I.E. It peaks at like 5 dB or whatever it is, all the way into the red, in the zone marked as "clipping" which is enough to blow your ears out.

It is not effected in any way by the volume settings on any part of my Focusrite. I just checked.

I am having a hard time understanding why this is hard to explain.

You push the master fader on anything all the way and it clips.

Sounds like maybe I have the only work station of it's kind in America and the only supernatural copy of Real Band in America though, so perhaps I will have to reverse engineer the code myself.

smile

Or go back to a reel to reel....

Ah, I completely missed that screenshot actually - that's my bad! The arrow was small enough I missed it (I have low vision so sometimes I can struggle a bit with graphics). It definitely shouldn't be clipping though as a default if your levels are otherwise good elsewhere. I'll see what I can find out for you and report back if I find something of note for you that may help. smile
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#716155 - 05/08/22 08:29 PM [RealBand] Re: Please Fix Real Band Default to Blow Your Ears Out [Re: David Snyder]
Registered: 04/13/16
Posts: 4430
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rayc Online   content
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I'm with you David.
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#716207 - 05/09/22 06:52 AM [RealBand] Re: Please Fix Real Band Default to Blow Your Ears Out [Re: David Snyder]
Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 8247
Guitarhacker Offline
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My fix.... although I didn't really know this was an issue.... and perhaps here's why.....

I run the output of my Saffire interface..... and I have 4 stereo outs plus a sub..... into a Behringer headphone amp and have the volumes set in there on 50% or less. PLus the Saffire has a software control panel with preset default output levels that are also set somewhere around the 50% level. It's been years since I actually needed to go into the software panel....

I've never had a "grab the volume control" moment in any of the software I run.

I'm still working out the kinks in the initial levels for my Spark but that's another story unrelated to this one.
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#716240 - 05/09/22 10:32 AM [RealBand] Re: Please Fix Real Band Default to Blow Your Ears Out [Re: David Snyder]
Registered: 09/03/08
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Del Offline
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As others have mentioned, the 'Master Volume' you are indicating does indeed affect the rendered audio level. I always leave this set at its maximum when working in Realband to get the max output of the rendered files and usually have to amplify the rendered file another 2 or 3db to get it to the levels I want.

The attached diagram shows my simple setup and how I control the audio to speakers and headphones.


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Edited by Del (05/09/22 10:36 AM)
Edit Reason: added jpg
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