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Howdy!

I'm a one man band making music on the computer, which means I write all the parts. I am generally very satisfied with my creations, but I struggle a lot with the bass. I tend to write bass lines that clash with the rest of the song rather than supporting it. I pull it off eventually, but it takes a lot of trial and error. The fact of the matter is, I don't know what I'm doing. And frankly, I am getting tired of the struggle. Can someone here kindly suggest something I could read or watch that might make me struggle less in the future? I would really appreciate the guidance.

May the sounds be with you.

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Maybe these will help; note all I did was google/bing writing a bass guitar part to find these:

https://www.masterclass.com/articles/how-to-write-a-bass-line#2-types-of-bass-lines

https://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials/beginners-guide-to-writing-better-bass-lines--cms-19879

There are other sites available to look for more information.

If you know a little music theory it would help. We don't know how much theory you know as you didn't specify any.

I hope this helps.

{edit} if it sounds good it is good.

Last edited by MarioD; 05/06/22 02:32 PM.

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Byron Dickens

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Lucm ... in BB this is very easy to do.

You simply use slash chords. For example.... C/D C/E where the chord is C but the bass is D in the first one and E in the second one. It will literally play the bass note you enter after the slash.

I used this technique of using slash chords in this song. It's an old hymn that's redone to a modern standard.

It Is Well With My Soul

I used it to ride on the bass in the intro while the chords vary, then further into the song, the bass is not playing the root in quite a few places. I was going for a dissonant sound.

Last edited by Guitarhacker; 05/07/22 08:32 AM.

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Originally Posted By: Lucm
Howdy!

I'm a one man band making music on the computer, which means I write all the parts. I am generally very satisfied with my creations, but I struggle a lot with the bass. I tend to write bass lines that clash with the rest of the song rather than supporting it. I pull it off eventually, but it takes a lot of trial and error. The fact of the matter is, I don't know what I'm doing. And frankly, I am getting tired of the struggle. Can someone here kindly suggest something I could read or watch that might make me struggle less in the future? I would really appreciate the guidance.

May the sounds be with you.

Just my ten pennyworth.
Often the bass is best left as the foundation ... the root of the chord with a leading note to move to the next root. The next step is probably to arpeggiate the chord; probably just the triad; again with a leading note to the next chord.
I think that if you want a bass lead/solo, then the rest of the band probably play mostly the plain chords and/or long notes. Make musical space for the musicians.


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What is your writing process?

That is not clear.

Are you entering bass notes into a score, or are you playing them on a midi keyboard?

I assume you are not playing a real bass. You might want to try it, just because it is fun, and you will get the hang of it.

In music, you have to jam A LOT to write anything worthwhile. If you try and do it "logically", in a vacuum so to speak, it will have no life to it.

Do you ever choose a bass patch on a keyboard and just jam??

It is very fun--and it is the way you learn.

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Carol Kaye, the Wrecking Crew (amongst many other gigs) bassist, says her secret has always been to use chord tones.
"It Depends" is the biggest thing though.
Genre, instrument, intent etc.
Software? Are you writing bass IN BIAB, for keyboard, to play on a bass?
As a bassist I start on the root, look where I'm headed and what's around me then move accordingly - or stay on the root until the chord changes.
There aren't any rules unless you're playing rhythm section jazz...they seem to have LOTS of rules for that.

Playing the root in different places gives a huge variety of options or simply working in the bass box between root & octave can be very useful.

If you take G on the E string (lowest fattest) as your root for a G major chord then the octave is two frets UP (5th) the fret board and two strings higher (D string). The note on the A string at the same fret (5th) as the octave gives you the 5th of the chord. That translates all over a four string bass.

BUT what works for you...harmonic, dissonant, tension building... is what works.

This track uses the Root, octave & 5th in the longer sections. Where the 5th is the same or too close to the next chord I use the 3rd, ( the progression has a Dm to D and a D to Dm in it and I used the 3rd on the Dm rather than the 5th so there'd be some difference) - when I'm playing along with the Am I just play the simple guitar chord arpeggio on the bass because it has a nice hop to it and doesn't require switching fingers about...chords/triads can be very handy...
Root octave 5th example

The links offered are pretty much what I've mentioned - though I skipped other notes in the key as that requires some extra thinking and listening.
The link Byron offered takes you to a course which may be useful but it's taught by someone who wears their sunglasses on top of their bald head - rarely an encouraging sign.




Last edited by rayc; 05/08/22 05:16 PM.

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Has anyone tried picking up the bass and playing it?

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Originally Posted By: David Snyder

Has anyone tried picking up the bass and playing it?


Yes, I have and you may have heard my bass playing on some of my songs.


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Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.

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I know and I loved it!

I love it when people just pick up something and play it!

It's not that hard to figure out, really.

smile

All you have to do is play what sounds good.

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Originally Posted By: David Snyder

Has anyone tried picking up the bass and playing it?

Ha!

Playing and listening and then playing what I heard and always more listening. I've always felt that listening was far more important than playing. When I was in school, they'd let any kid who wanted borrow an upright—all I had to do was show up and try to play and, while I was at it, learn to sight read.

Though I played many instruments, I learned a most important lesson nearly 55 years ago: Bass players work. Well over 50% of the thousands of gigs I played over the years were on bass, electric and upright.

Even though my arm is crippled and I can no longer play my basses, I can tap on the glass of an iPad and play live or use BIAB or VIs in a DAW.

Originally Posted By: rayc
Carol Kaye, the Wrecking Crew (amongst many other gigs) bassist, says her secret has always been to use chord tones.
"It Depends" is the biggest thing though.
Genre, instrument, intent etc.
Software? Are you writing bass IN BIAB, for keyboard, to play on a bass?
As a bassist I start on the root, look where I'm headed and what's around me then move accordingly - or stay on the root until the chord changes.
There aren't any rules unless you're playing rhythm section jazz...they seem to have LOTS of rules for that.

I always ignored the so-called jazz rules. Either I played the chart note for note like a symphony gig or I trusted my ears and experience.

Carol Kaye is an interesting example for you to pick. A good part of her genius is that she went off the reservation a lot on her recordings. She could play the root when she wanted but so often she didn't. She also insisted that students play with a pick, a point on which we disagree.

She and my wife taught at the same music store about 40–45 years ago and I got to know her a little. As much as I admired her, I was already formed as a player and didn't believe there was anything she could teach me or I would have taken lessons. I was doing studio dates and had a symphony chair.


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You could check out Fretboard Roadmaps Bass by Fred Sokolow and Tim Emmons. It'll take you through the basic shapes on the fretboard, and introduce you to a bunch of bass cliches that are good to know.

If you don't already have a bass... well, why not?. You might check out the Ibanez Gio MiKro. It's a short-scale bass, so it's smaller, lighter, and easier to play. Plus, it's a lot of fun to play, which is pretty important. Not the greatest tuners, but not terrible.

And don't get one of those tiny, tinny amps. The difference between playing a bass through a cheap guitar amp and a decent bass amp is night and day. When I finally got my son a real bass amp, I regretted not getting it much, much sooner. It's much more fun to play a bass that's got real low end.

The Fender Rumble amp sounds nice and importantly doesn't weight a ton.

The bass is primarily a supporting instrument. If people don't notice it, it's probably doing it's job right. Root and fifth is often enough - getting too fancy on the low end just makes things muddy. Groove with the kick drum, and let other instruments take the lead. There are only a few places where the bass needs to be noticed during a song. Like lead guitar, I think it's more about keeping a feel than particular notes.

If you were a bit more specific about where you were having issues, that would be helpful.


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Originally Posted By: dcuny

And don't get one of those tiny, tinny amps. The difference between playing a bass through a cheap guitar amp and a decent bass amp is night and day.

Yep, a cheap &/or small bass amp is the start down the path of problems and a forced "upgrade"
If starting out, & interesting in recording rather than performing, an "amp in a box/DI" is a cheap & excellent solution.
I have a Marshall 100w Superbass wich sounds great BUT mic'ing it just right and gettinga noise free day to record isn't as easy as it should be.
MOST of my bass tracks are recorded through a Behringer BDI21. It's a Sansamp clone but costs about 10% of the cost of the name brand version it copies. It is almost a 100% SANSAMP in sound & functionality too. Difference being lay out and labelling.


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rayc
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Every studio player I knew had a version of this GK amp.

GK MB-112

Mine is 35 years old and was a variant of the MB-150. It's been all over the world with me. In the studio, just it and me. Live, plugged into any of a number of EVM-15L loaded extension cabinets.

Last time I was in Stockton, I dropped it off for a new speaker and to be checked out while I had lunch with my daughter at UOP. By the time lunch was done, so was my amp.



I still have and use it along with a single speaker extension that is never used anymore.


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Hello, people. I am the original poster.

Just to clarify for those who asked, I don't have an actual bass. If I did, I wouldn't know how to hold it much less play it. I painstakingly enter each individual note into a MIDI grid and slowly build a song. I enjoy it a lot and I like the results so far. I had begun to make music five years ago but soon gave up on it due to personal problems. I am resuming it now because... well, it's some kind of relief or distraction from my worries. I definitely need the stress relief.

I guess I could call myself a composer, but not a musician. I couldn't "jam" in real time to save my life. My approach is to use the computer to slowly build something that can only be appreciated after it's completed. It reminds me a lot of my childhood, when I used to draw. A drawing can only be appreciated after it's done and you can... uh... hang it on the fridge? :-)

Whatever instrument is leading I find very easy to write. I also handle the drums pretty well. I only struggle with the bass. I guess that's because it's a lot like garbage collectors: people seldom notice it but its absence becomes instantly clear. Songs tend to sound hollow without the bass, but I am not used to paying attention to bass lines because it's always been a "background" instrument. Since I only "play" (with air quotes) by ear, i.e. 100% intuitively, my failure to properly listen to bass lines during my whole life is coming back to bite me in the [*****] now.

I am enjoying the comments, thank you very much, including those from people who play the actual instrument in a way I never will. I always enjoy reading discussions about music. I've been checking out the tips offered. This whole forum is very nice. Thank you for your current and future participation.

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All right - I'll assume you know nothing, and start there.

If you've got one bar in 4/4 time:

1...2...3...4...

You can start with a simple pattern of playing the root note of the chord on beat 1.

By "root note", I mean the note that's the first note in the scale the chord was taken from.

So if you've got a "C major" or "C minor" or "C7" or "Cmaj7", the root note is going to be a "C" note - the same name as the chord.

Here, the "C" under the 1 indicates the root of the chord is played on first beat of the bar:

1...2...3...4...
C...............


If the chord changed from a C on the first beat to a F on the third beat, play the bass of the new chord on the chord change:

1...2...3...4...
C.......F.......


If you start a new bar and the chord didn't change, play the bass of the current chord on the first beat.

So in this example, imagine the chord chart looks like this:

C / F / | F / / /


That is, two quarter note beats of a C major chord and two quarter note beats of a F major chord in bar 1, followed by 4 quarter note beats of an F major chord. On bass, you would play an "C" on beat 1, and an "F" one beat 3 in the first bar.

1...2...3...4....
C.......F........


in the next bar, the chord stays on an F major chord, so play an F on beats 1 and 3:

1...2...3...4....
F.......F........


Now, the next step up is to alternate the bass note between the root note and the fifth of the chord.

The "fifth of the chord" means the fifth note of the scale the chord belongs to. If the chord is C major, the C major scale is C,D,E,F,G,A,B, and the 5th note of the scale is "G".

So if you had a full bar of some sort of C chord, instead of playing another "C" note on beat 3, you could play "G", which is the fifth of the chord:

1...2...3...4...
C.......G.......


What if the chord was an F major chord? The scale F major has the notes F,G,A,Bb,C,D,E, so the fifth is a "C" note. So the alternate note would be a "C":

1...2...3...4....
F.......C........


This is going to give a sort of "oom-pah" feel to the music. So instead, you probably want to put the fifth on the 4th quarter beat, like so:

1...2...3...4...
C...........G...


Much cooler.

If the chord indicates an inversion, like C/E, or Dm7/G, this note under the slash indicates the note to play on the bass instead of the root note. So if the chord was C/E, you could play and "E" on the first beat. You could stay safe and play the "E" again on the third beat of the bar:

1...2...3...4...
E...........E...


Or get all fancy-schmancy and play the fifth of the chord (E major = E,F#,G#,A,B,C#,D#, so the fifth is "B"):

1...2...3...4...
E...........B...


If you don't know how to easily find the fifth of a chord, there's a chart you can Google called the "Circle of Fifths" that will show you the fifths of all the chords (and is useful for a lot of other music-theory related things).

And that's 90% of what you need to play bass.

Assuming you knew all that... what sort of additional information are you looking for?


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I believe if you answer a few questions we can be more helpful.
1-Do you know anything about music?
2-Do you know what chords you are writing?
3-Do you know how to make a scale?
4-Do you have any music creating software?

If you don't have Band-in-a-Box you might consider it. You would write your songs like you do now, bring the MIDI file into Band-in-a-Box, select a style and have it generate a bass line.

Or write a song sans the bass line, post it here, and have people write a MIDI bass line for you to use and/or study.

Please give us a good description of what you know about music and we can be more helpful.

PS - don't feel put down if you don't know music. I had a friend whom knew nothing about music. He didn't know chords, scales, or any theory what-so-ever BUT he produced some of the most beautiful music I have ever heard. He recorded his keyboard via his computer and did track after track. He did everything by ear.


Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.

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Originally Posted By: Lucm
Hello, people. I am the original poster.

Just to clarify for those who asked, I don't have an actual bass. If I did, I wouldn't know how to hold it much less play it. I painstakingly enter each individual note into a MIDI grid and slowly build a song. I enjoy it a lot and I like the results so far. I had begun to make music five years ago but soon gave up on it due to personal problems. I am resuming it now because... well, it's some kind of relief or distraction from my worries. I definitely need the stress relief.

I guess I could call myself a composer, but not a musician. I couldn't "jam" in real time to save my life. My approach is to use the computer to slowly build something that can only be appreciated after it's completed. It reminds me a lot of my childhood, when I used to draw. A drawing can only be appreciated after it's done and you can... uh... hang it on the fridge? :-)

Whatever instrument is leading I find very easy to write. I also handle the drums pretty well. I only struggle with the bass. I guess that's because it's a lot like garbage collectors: people seldom notice it but its absence becomes instantly clear. Songs tend to sound hollow without the bass, but I am not used to paying attention to bass lines because it's always been a "background" instrument. Since I only "play" (with air quotes) by ear, i.e. 100% intuitively, my failure to properly listen to bass lines during my whole life is coming back to bite me in the [*****] now.

I am enjoying the comments, thank you very much, including those from people who play the actual instrument in a way I never will. I always enjoy reading discussions about music. I've been checking out the tips offered. This whole forum is very nice. Thank you for your current and future participation.



THis answers a lot of questions.

However, assuming that you have BB, bass lines should not be a problem as BB does the heavy lifting for you. I can play bass but don't currently have one.... so I rely on BB for 95% of my bass tracks. More on the other 5% in a bit.

BUT...assuming that you want to write your own bass lines...... Can you play a piano keyboard? If so... you can easily use it to play the bass parts using a synth and bass samples/libraries. Do you play guitar? If so, the bass is nothing more than the 4 lower strings one octave down.

On the 5% that I don't use BB on.... I can play a keyboard and have a few here in my studio. I use MIDI and a decent synth sampler with the bass guitar tone I want. It helps if you know a little bit about music and theory but that's really not essential. If you start playing it by ear.... play along to songs..... and if you sit down and take the time to really listen to what the bass is actually playing in the song.... then replicate what you hear if it's only a few notes at a time. IN a matter of a few weeks time you will be playing and able to come up with bass parts for the songs you're recording.


I played in several bands with the same bass player. He couldn't tell you the names of the notes, and he didn't know much about music other than to tell you he liked it, but he would sit down and work out the bass parts to the songs. He eventually got to the point where he knew notes and keys and could play fairly well. I recall showing him note by note the bass part to a complicated song. He learned it by memory and never missed a note once he learned a song.

It's all simply a matter of wanting to learn it and doing the things necessary, and spending the time working on it to accomplish the goal.

Last edited by Guitarhacker; 05/12/22 05:17 AM.

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I'll ask the questions I always ask.

1, how old are you?

2, if you aren't a musician, do you have any desire to become one or not?

3, what is stopping you from taking lessons and learning how to play?

You can learn anything you want to learn if you want to learn it bad enough. This kind of topic is always double edged for me because it points out the strengths of the software but also a weakness in the spirit of such software existing because it feeds into the microwave world concept that people want end results fast without all that pesky "work" that typically goes with achieving end results. This is one of the reasons I am somewhat unpopular here is that I came from "the old skool" and believe if people want to make music they should also learn, you know, music. In a world of music that consists of 8 bar loops downloaded from the internet set to loop endlessly, over which bad beat poetry is recited, and that is called rap, hip-hop, whatever...

I usually end up getting assailed with email telling me that learning scales, notes, timing and the basic basics is a waste of time.

It all depends on your end game. What are you trying to do? Make serious music, like to publish CDs and sell them? (Many have tried. Many have failed. Like me.)

See, I only know one way to do this, that being the way I did it. Anything short of that I liken to trying to sneak into the circus rather than paying for a ticket. But that's just because of my musical history. I was fortunate to have all of the fine people in the USA who paid for me to go to college on the GI Bill after the military, where I was a music major, which I chose because at age 22 when I got out I had already been playing music for 17 years and it seemed like the best choice. But everybody doesn't walk the same path.

I strongly suggest you take some music basics either at a community college or a music store that has teachers who understand that "music lessons" is way different from "learning songs". Songs are made of music. Music though, isn't made of songs. If you study music fundamentals for a few months to where you know steps of a scale, know half steps from while steps, major from minor chords (which are easily figured out when you know steps of a scale) and a little bit about time signatures, much will be come clear.

Now that all assumes that you are not already 92 years old and have time and means to take such lessons. 3 years ago, at 69, I went to Kent State to study Pro Tools on an audit basis and after 5 weeks I knew my way around software that is somewhat complex because of how full featured it is. The more it does, the more there is to learn, right?

Choose the path that's right for you, and only you know what that is.


I smashed the hell out of my car today. When the cops came I told him "Officer, that guy was BOTH texting and drinking a beer." The cop said "Sir, he has every right to do that. I mean, it's HIS living room..."
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I have to agree. Nothing beats the joy of playing, if you are up for it.

And the bass is incredibly fun. And not all that hard. It is also more of the backbone of the song and the songwriting process than some would lead you to believe. Look at Paul McCartney and Sting. Melodic bass is hypnotizing.

If you get a bass and just start fooling around with it, the bass will come to you. Sure, you will grow an insatiable curiosity and look up everything there is to know about bass playing, but first you have to let the instrument seduce you. You don't want to tightly control the bass, or any other instrument. You want to let the instrument have its way with you. Go ahead, get hypnotized.

smile

THEN, you will look at BIAB in a whole new light, my friend. Some magical lights will switch on, trust me.


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Video: Volume Automation in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created a video to help you learn more about the Volume Automation options in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows.

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Volume Automation

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#volume-automation

Video: Audio Input Monitoring with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created this short video to explain Audio Input Monitoring within Band-in-a-Box® 2024, and included some tips & troubleshooting details too!

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Audio Input Monitoring

3:17: Tips
5:10: Troubleshooting

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#audio-input-monitoring

Video: Enhanced Melodists in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®!

We've enhanced the Melodists feature included in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows!

Access the Melodist feature by pressing F7 in the program to open the new MultiPicker Library and locate the [Melodist] tab.

You can now generate a melody on any track in the program - very handy! Plus, you select how much of the melody you want generated - specify a range, or apply it to the whole track.

See the Melodist in action with our video, Band-in-a-Box® 2024: The Melodist Window.

Learn even more about the enhancements to the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024upgrade/chapter3.htm#enhanced-melodist

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Specifically for Reaper®

New with the DAW Plugin Version 6.0, released with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows: the Reaper® Panel!

This new panel offers built-in specific support for the Reaper® DAW API allowing direct transfer of Band-in-a-Box® files to/from Reaper® tracks!

When you run the Plugin from Reaper®, there is a panel to set the following options:
-BB Track(s) to send: This allows you to select the Plugin tracks that will be sent Reaper.
-Destination Reaper Track: This lets you select the destination Reaper track to receive media content from the Plugin.
-At Bar: You can select a bar in Reaper where the Plugin tracks should be placed.
-Start Below Selected Track: This allows you to place the Plugin tracks below the destination Reaper track.
-Overwrite Reaper Track: You can overwrite previous content on the destination Reaper track.
-Move to Project Folder: With this option, you can move the Plugin tracks to the Reaper project folder.
-Send Reaper Instructions Enable this option to send the Reaper Instructions instead of rendering audio tracks, which is faster.
-Render Audio & Instructions: Enable this option to generate audio files and the Reaper instructions.
-Send Tracks After Generating: This allows the Plugin to automatically send tracks to Reaper after generating.
-Send Audio for MIDI Track: Enable this option to send rendered audio for MIDI tracks.
-Send RealCharts with Audio: If this option is enabled, Enable this option to send RealCharts with audio.

Check out this video highlighting the new Reaper®-specific features: Band-in-a-Box® DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Specifically for Reaper®

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Video

The new Band-in-a-Box VST DAW Plugin Verion 6 adds over 20 new features!

Watch the new features video to learn more: Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2024 - DAW Plugin Version 6 New Features

We also list these new features at www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.plugin.htm.

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