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Hello Folks, This is a song I started a couple of days ago. I've lined up a cellist to play the intro, solo & outro but that'll be a coupe of weeks away. I've lined up a good guitarist to provide better chord voicings. This mix has BIAB cello, Piano, violin and drums. I played guitar (through an ACTONE amp in a box pedal), bass, (through a Behringer BDI21), used eBow on one guitar part in the verses and I triple tracked my croak. I anticipate replacing the guitars at the very least. WE draft V2 I've paid attention to suggestions and comments and have applied all I could in this updated mix. It may not remain as it is but it's an application of suggestions, more vocal, punch in the rhythm section, new guitars with different tonality, an arpeggio (such as it is - two notes of the truncated chords in the verse more audible in V2 & V3)and some EQing to give each instrument more of its own space in the stereo image AND I removed the steady strumming guitar. WE forum camel committee mix WE forum camel committee mix The song was written in BIAB and I tracked my parts while playing along to the tracks I'd pulled into Reaper from it. The CHORD CHART in the DAW plugin is, for me, the best part of the plugin. I don't have to spend days learning a song when I can simply play along to the bouncing ball - so to speak. The chart, screen shot & saved, is also a boon for collaboration. There may be a way of saving it as an image that's native to BIAb but I've not discovered that yet. It began as an exercise writing in a different key...I then decided to work way out of my realm with a sappy/sad song. Lyrics When you say we You don' t mean me You talk of someone new And there's nothing I can do. People stop and ask me If I'm doing well But I now dodge their questions There's nothing I can tell When you say we It's not how it should be Because things have changed And won't be re-arranged People stop and ask me About you and yours I can't face their questions I prefer to stay indoors When you say we My mind is all at sea You mean a different two That's not what we once knew. People stop and ask me About you and I I can't face the answers I chose to not reply When you say we You don' t mean me You talk of someone new And there's nothing I can do. I am interested in comments/critiques/thoughts generally but am particularly interested in ideas about the current, & potential, arrangement of instruments. Blast away - negativity gives me something to think through if nothing else.
Last edited by rayc; 05/14/22 12:33 AM.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Hi Ray,
I'm first to talk about your song.
And I was pleasantly surprised! What an -almost- lovely song you made.
I liked the instruments you chose, especially the cello.
The melody is lovely, the lyrics sad but very well written. I liked the verse:
"When you say we
You don't mean me
You talk of someone new
And there's nothing I can do"
There are a few aspects I want to touch on to: Your vocals were too soft. I would prefer them way more upfront.
What kind of fx you used on the vocals? Although they were hidden a bit, I liked that a lot, like in:
"People stop and ask me
If I'm doing well
But I now dodge their questions
There's nothing I can tell"
But for me they were too soft as well. Here these fx could be used louder. They sound very well.
And why did I say 'almost' at the beginning of my comment? Because you can hear the threat from the start. And that's not what you do in a 'lovely'song. But who cares.
I enjoyed it, Ray!
Hans
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Hi Ray
Really cool made
The song has a very interesting background track
Is very well done
The vocals fit perfectly into it
Very good work
Many greetings
Andi ;-)
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Good start on the song. This will develop into an excellent piece. Well done
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Ray,
Very cool tune. Has a very personal / intimate feel, if one can say that. Would be interesting to hear how it develops. I like the vocals on it a lot, and compared to your other drafts, they are well positioned in the mix., I would up them just very slightly. EBow, seems like a fun toy. Thank you for sharing.
Misha.
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Hi, Ray. Harmonies are interesting. The vocals parts step on each other in places, making it to make out the lyric. Some of the lines start clear, but then fade into the background and are soft and hard to make out. It sounds like you're trying to bury the vocals, and that's a big nope for me. Put 'em front and center. Then again, I see others on the thread who disagree, so... 
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Hi Ray,
pleasantly surprised! What an -almost- lovely song you made.
I liked the instruments you chose, especially the cello.
The melody is lovely, the lyrics sad but very well written.
Your vocals were too soft. I would prefer them way more upfront.
What kind of fx you used on the vocals?
the threat from the start.
Hans Thanks Hans, I expect the real cello part to REALLY up the game. Lyrically this was easy - I started with the 1st line and the 1st two stanzas came very quickly. After that is as case of building the lyric with variations on those two. Quick n easy. IF I find a better singer I'll push them forward a little. Vocal FX...compression, (Deathcore to even things a little and add some grime) EQ, (boosted the weak freqs & cut the heavy ones) & sent to a reverb bus...nothing else. Though the vocals are triple tracked in unison except for the harmony spots so that would provide some natural "chorus" treatment. Threat? Ominous, sad, pathetic as well I hope.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Hi Ray
Really cool made
The song has a very interesting background track
Is very well done
The vocals fit perfectly into it
Very good work
Many greetings
Andi ;-) Thanks Andi, I hope it progresses as well as it started.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Good start on the song. This will develop into an excellent piece. Well done Thanks Scott, particularly for the optimistic prediction.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Ray,
Very cool tune. Has a very personal / intimate feel, if one can say that. Would be interesting to hear how it develops. I like the vocals on it a lot, and compared to your other drafts, they are well positioned in the mix., I would up them just very slightly. EBow, seems like a fun toy. Thank you for sharing.
Misha. "they are well positioned in the mix" thanks & "up them just very slightly." I shall try.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Hi, Ray. Harmonies are interesting. The vocals parts step on each other in places, making it to make out the lyric. Some of the lines start clear, but then fade into the background and are soft and hard to make out. It sounds like you're trying to bury the vocals, and that's a big nope for me. Put 'em front and center. Then again, I see others on the thread who disagree, so... Thanks dcuny, The harmonies shouldn't be interesting as they form the triad. I must have goofed and thrown in something oblique or jazz. I had a listen after reading your comment about buried vocals/tapering off - I don't hear that but will return to the mix to investigate. I'm not burying the vocals intentionally but don't hear the songs as being the sort that is vocalist with backing like my old 78s. Differing opinion is excellent - it gives me cause to check and review.
Cheers
rayc
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Has the potential of being a good song, Ray. I'm looking forward to hearing how it develops. Vocal sounds good, initially I thought it was too low in the mix, but as the song progressed it seemed to fit better. Not very helpful I know! 
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Ray, an interesting song with intriguing lyrics.
This could easily be something from the 'Pet Shop Boys'.
Perhaps as a suggestion you could edit the start to take out the 2 bar count-in, which is ideally not part of the song.
I also think the vocal could come forward slightly in the mix.
It includes an interesting ending. Somehow there's and anticipation that it will resolve to a different chord, but leaves some suspense instead.
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Good job! I like it ... sad, soft and sensitive. My kind of song! :-)
I, too, would have appreciated the vocals just a tad more "in front" ... otherwise the very tune gets lost, and that would be a pity, right? Enjoyed the (as others have said) suspensful nature of the ending, too. Nice! :-)
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Very cool lining up a cellist. Did you write specific parts for her? Sad lyrics. Very sad not to be part of the WE. I really like your vocals, Ray. When you say they are triple tracked, you don't mean 3 takes, right? How do you process them differently, or is it just for panning to make it fuller?
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Great concept and unique angle to the hook, Ray!
If you want this to be more commercially accepted, you may consider chopping a measure at the end of each verse line. This would take out the space and, of course, decrease the song length. Commercial songs are moving to 3 to 3:30 minutes these days.
BYW, love the cello
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Ray,
I really like the chord progression and the song itself. Great lyrics. This sounds like a worktape to me in terms of mix.
A lot of the stuff is in the same dynamic range and even has the same sound, so it is getting mushed. The backing track sounds muffled, and almost like one track--not a mix.
I would get the bass and drums sounding punchy and solid, then add in new guitars, as you say, that have totally different dynamic ranges to make the song more crisp. Maybe an electric AND an acoustic, or something.
Anyway, you are definitely off to a good start!!
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Hi Ray ...
I like the bones of this song. I don't typically offer a lot of commentary of a song still in progress with significant developments still in waiting. I feel the composer should finish it out as he/she feels it best occurs. But I don't mind offering an opinion on the potential. I think this one has a lot.
Good luck with the song's progress. Anticipate a nice listen when it's finished and polished. Good luck with it ...
Alan
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ray,
Listening to V2 (missed the first one).
LOVE the vocal. Especially the sound at "If I'm doing well" and "There's nothing I can tell". Tight and right on top of the main vocal - actually sounds generated - very "today" sound.
Drums sound good. Cello bits are cool.
The guitars sound good. But I thought they were a bit too "smooth"... the steady strumming.
Had the thought that some kind of odd, signature arpeggiated guitar (and/or synth?) might work.
I could certainly be wrong about that though. Just a thought.
I like what you've got so far.
fj
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Ray,
I was pleasantly surprised by the 80s like vocal in this.
In the final mix I would leave out the BIAB intro ticks and make your vocal a little bit hot and bright (a little bit muddy now).
Rob
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Has the potential of being a good song, Ray. I'm looking forward to hearing how it develops. Vocal sounds good, initially I thought it was too low in the mix, but as the song progressed it seemed to fit better. Not very helpful I know! Thanks Blue - any honest comment is useful.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Ray, an interesting song with intriguing lyrics.
This could easily be something from the 'Pet Shop Boys'.
Perhaps as a suggestion you could edit the start to take out the 2 bar count-in, which is ideally not part of the song.
I also think the vocal could come forward slightly in the mix.
It includes an interesting ending. Somehow there's and anticipation that it will resolve to a different chord, but leaves some suspense instead. Thanks AudioTrack, PSB's do have a deft hand at melancholy with a pulse. I'll def excise the count in when I've had it mastered. I keep them in so I have an accurate time frame if someone comments based on time. M.E. prefer to have a couple of seconds out front for a variety of reasons. Once I've collated an albums worth of masters I'll definitely be chopping those bit off. The vocal will be resettled once the cello is in - I'll attempt to have both at the same level. My fingers did move to a resolving chord for the end but I resisted.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Good job! I like it ... sad, soft and sensitive. My kind of song! :-)
I, too, would have appreciated the vocals just a tad more "in front" ... otherwise the very tune gets lost, and that would be a pity, right? Enjoyed the (as others have said) suspensful nature of the ending, too. Nice! :-) Thanks James, I'm disinclined to resolution generally.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Very cool lining up a cellist. Did you write specific parts for her? Sad lyrics. Very sad not to be part of the WE. I really like your vocals, Ray. When you say they are triple tracked, you don't mean 3 takes, right? How do you process them differently, or is it just for panning to make it fuller? Thanks Marty, I've left the cello part to the cellist - she knows the chords, often bounced her ideas from the bass line - we shall see. Same with the coming guitar part. Yes - three takes = three tracks. All processed the same though I admit to only manually de-essing the main - the other two have a Tonmann de-esser cover the problem. The slight panning and natural chorusing give it the fuller sound. The compression, EQ and reverb send are on the vocal bus.
Cheers
rayc
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Ray,
I really like the chord progression and the song itself. Great lyrics. This sounds like a worktape to me in terms of mix.
A lot of the stuff is in the same dynamic range and even has the same sound, so it is getting mushed. The backing track sounds muffled, and almost like one track--not a mix.
I would get the bass and drums sounding punchy and solid, then add in new guitars, as you say, that have totally different dynamic ranges to make the song more crisp. Maybe an electric AND an acoustic, or something.
Anyway, you are definitely off to a good start!!
Thanks for the detail David, I've not done too much as I'm waiting for the collaborators' parts before doing too much more. I spent some time EQ carving to sit the bass & kick though I've not thrown a punchy compressor on them alone or as a rhythm bus. I know the cello, at least, will render some of that EQing a waste of time. As the existing guitar parts are Amp In A Box DI jobs they were too crisp & fizzy so did a very blunt edged chop on them. The sound of my Marshall should offer some dynamics when I get to it. Acoustic, hmmm, interesting. Again ta for the detail.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Hi Ray ...
I like the bones of this song. I don't typically offer a lot of commentary of a song still in progress with significant developments still in waiting. I feel the composer should finish it out as he/she feels it best occurs. But I don't mind offering an opinion on the potential. I think this one has a lot.
Good luck with the song's progress. Anticipate a nice listen when it's finished and polished. Good luck with it ...
Alan I like to post WIP s to get perspective....I know it's a cop out in some ways but living in isolation with no one for feedback, (my wife & sister-in-law don't like my music), I need "other ears" Thanks for lending yours.
Cheers
rayc
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Great concept and unique angle to the hook, Ray!
If you want this to be more commercially accepted, you may consider chopping a measure at the end of each verse line. This would take out the space and, of course, decrease the song length. Commercial songs are moving to 3 to 3:30 minutes these days.
BYW, love the cello Thanks Dewey, I'm not adverse to commercial acceptance but I don't court, expect or consider it. I will try your suggestion about the length of the progression under the phrases. I placed space around this vocal in this one because I usually fill up all available time with words. I've noted that many, many songs that hold the attention of users of the main streaming platforms are often 2mins + and def. less than 3. The BIAB cello is usually very good. I have high expectations for the part coming.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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ray,
Listening to V2 (missed the first one).
LOVE the vocal. Especially the sound at "If I'm doing well" and "There's nothing I can tell". Tight and right on top of the main vocal - actually sounds generated - very "today" sound.
Drums sound good. Cello bits are cool.
The guitars sound good. But I thought they were a bit too "smooth"... the steady strumming.
Had the thought that some kind of odd, signature arpeggiated guitar (and/or synth?) might work.
I could certainly be wrong about that though. Just a thought.
I like what you've got so far.
fj
Thanks Floyd, I neglected to mention, in the OP, that the harmonies on the otherwise unison tracks are "tuned". I have enough trouble hitting the basic notes and only accidentally do the harmony ones. As I was constructed the vocal melody, in the hope of finding another to sing it, I "generated" the potential harmonies...simply triads of course. I'll experiment with arp guitar figure thing and hope that something pops up. Thanks for the idea. Yes, I hope the conscripted guitar player has some good voicing and riff/strum to lift the song otherwise I'll have to go back and do the current ones properly.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Ray,
I was pleasantly surprised by the 80s like vocal in this.
In the final mix I would leave out the BIAB intro ticks and make your vocal a little bit hot and bright (a little bit muddy now).
Rob Thanks rob. I, eventually, leave out the count in. As mentioned elsewhere, M.E.s usually like some space at the beginning of a track AND retaining the intro allows for accurate time references. Many of my mastered songs still have the count in but any/all will be truncated by they time they appear on /in an album. I was shocked by the 80sness given how much music from that decade I dislike - must be osmosis.
Cheers
rayc
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The cello is such a good fit for the mood of this song and we look forward to hearing the “guest” player.
The sentimental fool here (Janice) wanted to cry when she first read the lyric. Excellent!
We like your lead and harmony vocals and feel that they are just enough forward in the mix.
The drums, piano and, of course, your bass and guitars are very nice.
We like the ending and feel it fits the lyric well!
J&B
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The cello is such a good fit for the mood of this song and we look forward to hearing the “guest” player.
The sentimental fool here (Janice) wanted to cry when she first read the lyric. Excellent!
We like your lead and harmony vocals and feel that they are just enough forward in the mix.
The drums, piano and, of course, your bass and guitars are very nice.
We like the ending and feel it fits the lyric well!
J&B
Thanks Bud & Janice, As I started on the chords I thought of cello so it was "in there" almost from the word "go" - the cellist is committed to playing on it but has other pressing life commitments...she's worth the wait. Well, if Janice was moved by the lyric then I've achieve sappy/sad Nirvana. The emotion she wrenched from my last set of lyrics proves she more than adept at "emoting" in song. As I'd initially track parts D.I. I didn't have an opportunity to add a tail to the piece until I dragged out the eBow...it does those thing well. Little pain the the posterior that it is.
Last edited by rayc; 05/14/22 12:44 AM.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 für Windows Deutsch ist verfügbar!
Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 und mehr!
Paket | Was ist Neu
Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
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Forums66
Topics81,632
Posts735,245
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Jan 19th, 2020
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