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#717686 - 05/22/22 05:02 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Anyone experienced in m.2 ssd and pcie ? [Re: sslechta]
Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1646
justanoldmuso Offline
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Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1646
Steve.
some of my bb stats....useing my old i5.
1. 100 bars bb mix to stereo wav...40 secs.
2. boot into bb from win desktop..4 secs at most.
3. regen a trak ...same as 2 , 4 secs at most.
4. cliking >+ regen button or double clicking on a bar ,
same deal mate 4 secs or less.

ps i reckon what happens with regens is the low level bb code is prolly filling a few buffers then starts playing ..ie advanced look ahead buffer mgt // programming.
thus creating illusion of speed , similar to what mainstream daw multitraks do....fill buffers etc.

happiness/cheers.
om
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#717687 - 05/22/22 05:04 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Anyone experienced in m.2 ssd and pcie ? [Re: justanoldmuso]
Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 2442
Loc: St. Louis, MO. USA
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Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 2442
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OK, I'll take note of that. I'm still in the middle of rebuilding my PC so it may be a bit before I have BIAB re-loaded.
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Steve

BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory

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#718466 - 05/29/22 10:43 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Anyone experienced in m.2 ssd and pcie ? [Re: justanoldmuso]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 8775
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 8775
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
+++ HERE +++ is an article about modular Panasonic Laptops.
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Jim Fogle - 2022 BiaB (923) RB (Build 4) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 21H2, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#718742 - 06/01/22 02:34 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Anyone experienced in m.2 ssd and pcie ? [Re: justanoldmuso]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 21105
Loc: Mi., USA
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 21105
Loc: Mi., USA
Well tonight I stood up my first virtual server with nvme and I am impressed.
I have never installed SQL server and management studio so fast in my life.

This server is going to be very impressive once it gets Live.
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#718761 - 06/01/22 05:47 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Anyone experienced in m.2 ssd and pcie ? [Re: justanoldmuso]
Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 2442
Loc: St. Louis, MO. USA
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Registered: 12/27/13
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Great to hear! I'm still having a blast on my new image too!
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Steve

BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory

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#718763 - 06/01/22 06:26 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Anyone experienced in m.2 ssd and pcie ? [Re: sslechta]
Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1646
justanoldmuso Offline
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Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1646
Steve and Rharv.

as you know i'm getting a new studio pc.

but as most come with win 11...my concern is i never put studio pc's on the net....so following is worrying ...

ie i'm reading that win 11 soon might be closed off to users without an internet connection ??
i read this on msn.com lifestyle if i remember.

the problem is not everyone wants to be on the net.
and including lots of IT depts that want to keep their systems safely isolated from the net.

have you guys seen the above ??
would like your input.

its sorta forcing me back to refurbs with win 10 .

gimme your input please...cos lots of studios small and large dont want the net....includeing moi

respect/best
om




Edited by justanoldmuso (06/01/22 06:29 PM)
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#718765 - 06/01/22 06:35 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Anyone experienced in m.2 ssd and pcie ? [Re: justanoldmuso]
Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 2442
Loc: St. Louis, MO. USA
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Registered: 12/27/13
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I don't agree with the "keep it off the internet" philosophy. For me as an IT nerd there's no reason to keep my PC away from the internet. If I'm going to be doing something like recording music I simply turn off the network card to keep interruptions down (you could also pull the internet cable out). I also turn the network off overnight when I'm not on the PC. The default Win11 tool Windows Defender works fine for anti-virus protection. I don't go to suspicious web pages or click email links and very rarely get anything dangerous on my machine.

Keeping your computer off the internet just causes issues by not keeping your software up-to-date.

P.S. - I listened to some of your Soundcloud recordings, very nice work!

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Steve

BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory

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#718766 - 06/01/22 07:26 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Anyone experienced in m.2 ssd and pcie ? [Re: sslechta]
Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1646
justanoldmuso Offline
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Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1646
Steve.
(ps thanks for listening to my sc songs.)

well prolly from what ive read lots of IT shops are not very happy bout it.

personally i dont like this ...cos, being from uk it harks back to the old days of the lord of the manor, and the serfs.

i'm a rebel lol !

i just feel many businesses these days seem to want control over our daily lives.

if pg had products for linux, i prolly would be all over it.
i just dont like being told what to do by a OS...lol.

happiness
om
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FELLOW USERS PLEASE SUPPORT MY BIAB/RB WISHLIST ITEMS
FEEL FREE TO CRITIQUE MY SONGS IN THE USER SHOWCASE FORUM.

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#718768 - 06/01/22 07:58 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Anyone experienced in m.2 ssd and pcie ? [Re: justanoldmuso]
Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 2442
Loc: St. Louis, MO. USA
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Registered: 12/27/13
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Originally Posted By: justanoldmuso
...but as most come with win 11...my concern is i never put studio pc's on the net. the problem is not everyone wants to be on the net.
...and including lots of IT depts that want to keep their systems safely isolated from the net.

well prolly from what ive read lots of IT shops are not very happy bout it.

i just feel many businesses these days seem to want control over our daily lives.

These opinions seem kind of odd with my experiences. I've worked in IT for companies in the States for about 20 years and have never heard about a push in the IT community to keep PCs from the internet.

As far as Windows 11, it's pretty much the same OS as Windows 10 but has some cosmetic differences. I've been using it since last fall when it was released and have been using it on my main PC, laptop and on my wife's laptop and absolutely no issues.

Not sure what you mean with businesses wanting to control your lives. Most companies just want to have lots of antivirus apps on employee machines to keep them from being compromised and that's been going on since the internet's been around. Other than that, companies usually like to block non-work related websites but they can do that since it's their equipment.

Can you elaborate for yourself specifically what you are worried about by having your machine connected to the internet? Nothing I've read so far seems to be justifiable in disconnecting.
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Steve

BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory

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#718783 - 06/02/22 02:15 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Anyone experienced in m.2 ssd and pcie ? [Re: justanoldmuso]
Registered: 01/15/15
Posts: 907
Loc: Hampshire, UK
Gordon Scott Offline
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Registered: 01/15/15
Posts: 907
Loc: Hampshire, UK
I have a few Android Apps that will pop up "we need to renew your license" and refuse to run until it's done. No warnings. That can be a real frustration on a WiFi-only tablet when I'm away from home. IIRC both MobileSheetsPro and iRealPro do that. I use the former for setlists and leadsheets.
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#718796 - 06/02/22 05:05 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Anyone experienced in m.2 ssd and pcie ? [Re: Gordon Scott]
Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1646
justanoldmuso Offline
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Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1646
The debate bout putting ones pc daw on the net or not has been going on for ages…like the mac vs pc debates…lol, ..so i dont want to extend it much more.
Just google etc.
I just found a gearspace thread going back to 2010 on the subject....

https://gearspace.com/board/music-computers/556961-can-i-use-daw-without-internet-access.html


The concern being dpc spikes and infection of the daw etc if on the net,..and the possibility of a non daw program impacting a running daw program.

I choose not to allow my pc on the net like lots of studios and others choose to allow the net.
Just go on www.gearspace.com and recording.org and search for topics like ‘should i allow my daw pc on the net’. Or post ones own topic in that vein. Youll get lots of comments.

Various commercial enterprises choose to ‘air gap’ their computers from the net. (see wiki and google).

I have a junker refurb for the net, and this el cheapo 100 buckies chromebook which i’m very happy with btw …its fast…also for the net. Just personai choice.

best//happiness
om


Edited by justanoldmuso (06/02/22 05:08 AM)
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FELLOW USERS PLEASE SUPPORT MY BIAB/RB WISHLIST ITEMS
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#718800 - 06/02/22 06:00 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Anyone experienced in m.2 ssd and pcie ? [Re: justanoldmuso]
Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 2442
Loc: St. Louis, MO. USA
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Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 2442
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Agreed, personal choice. You don't have to approve my point of view and I won't try to comprehend yours.... smile
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Steve

BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory

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#722027 - 06/23/22 05:17 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Anyone experienced in m.2 ssd and pcie ? [Re: Mike Halloran]
Registered: 05/19/20
Posts: 1573
Loc: Victoria, BC
Simon - PG Music Offline
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Registered: 05/19/20
Posts: 1573
Loc: Victoria, BC
I honestly don't have the energy to read the whole thread here, so apologies if I'm repeating stuff, but just wanted to add a couple things:

First, yes it's possible to add a PCIe card to mount some NVMe SSD's to a machine that doesn't have any M.2 slots. However, if the CPU/BIOS/etc of that computer is too old it will not be able to boot from that SSD, but Windows should be able to access it after bootup. There may be workarounds depending on your machine (aftermarket BIOS, bootloaders, etc), but I haven't personally tried any of them.

Second, yes PCIe SSD's are faster than Sata SSD's, but in most cases it's unnecessary to upgrade if you already have some sort of SSD. Access time is more important than throughput, and for audio-related tasks most people won't notice the upgrade. Of course, other non-audio tasks could see a speed improvement, so by all means go for it if you want to.


Originally Posted By: Mike Halloran
Fortunately, if doing audio, you don’t need a very fast computer.

Indeed. I regularly use a 10-year old laptop that has a 2nd gen i5, 16gb of ram, and a 500gb Sata SSD. No problems whatsoever.

A friend of mine uses a 13-year-old iMac with a Core2Duo and 6gb of ram (not 16, 6!), also with a Sata SSD. We collaborate on tunes a fair amount. He doesn't run into any performance issues.
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#722096 - 06/24/22 08:52 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Anyone experienced in m.2 ssd and pcie ? [Re: Simon - PG Music]
Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1646
justanoldmuso Offline
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Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1646
Simon.

I’m interested in getting heavy into m2/nvme ssd and a new system for a few reasons..eg.

1. A 500gb m2 stick is 60 bucks or so . For great performance so its a no brainer imho.
I dont need frankly gigundous drives cos once a song is done i offload it to multiple off site backups anyway.
2. I want to get heavy into orchestral libs. And i’m very interested in seeing what synergies of merging some of my crazy rock ideas with orch instruments can work.

BUT from everything ive seen/heard sometimes people have problems adding big orch libs cos their rigs arent often up to the job of handling orch libs.

Yep thanks i’m aware of the boot issue , …just another wrinkle. lol.

Ive been reading up on pcie6 also…wow what a spec. Lol. interesting times ahead.

Best.
om
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#722116 - 06/24/22 10:32 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Anyone experienced in m.2 ssd and pcie ? [Re: justanoldmuso]
Registered: 05/19/20
Posts: 1573
Loc: Victoria, BC
Simon - PG Music Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/19/20
Posts: 1573
Loc: Victoria, BC
Absolutely OM, if you have the choice of NVMe vs Sata then always go NVMe, the minimal price difference is worth it. In general though if you can't go NVMe then Sata is perfectly fine for most people.
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#722168 - 06/24/22 05:02 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Anyone experienced in m.2 ssd and pcie ? [Re: justanoldmuso]
Registered: 08/20/11
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Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
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Posts: 8775
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Justanoldmuso,

You might like +++ THIS +++ article about the 7.0 PCI Express standard. shocked Don't worry, they are not expecting the release of 7.0 until 2025.
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Jim Fogle - 2022 BiaB (923) RB (Build 4) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 21H2, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#722570 - 06/29/22 10:31 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Anyone experienced in m.2 ssd and pcie ? [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1646
justanoldmuso Offline
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Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1646
Jim.
re pcie 7.
eek lol.

what we need is cheaper intel high end processors to beat the very fine apple M series processors.

btw if anyone is looking for a 2 mic pre usb interface...
apparently cad have brought out the u connect 2.
dunno how good it is. as always try and test out/rent before buying. its 70 bucks us apparently.

https://www.cadaudio.com/products/new-products/cx2

see the link n i guess you tube/google for more info.
and videos for intro and set up with pc or mac.

om


Edited by justanoldmuso (06/29/22 10:34 AM)
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#723041 - 07/04/22 06:25 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Anyone experienced in m.2 ssd and pcie ? [Re: justanoldmuso]
Registered: 05/19/20
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Loc: Victoria, BC
Simon - PG Music Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/19/20
Posts: 1573
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: justanoldmuso
what we need is cheaper intel high end processors to beat the very fine apple M series processors.

Intel is looking at creating hybrid X86 and ARM chips. I'm not certain this is a good idea, as really the way forward is to abandon the X86 architecture, but here you go: https://www.extremetech.com/computing/331740-intel-plans-to-license-cores-that-combine-arm-risc-v-and-x86
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#723060 - 07/05/22 05:33 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Anyone experienced in m.2 ssd and pcie ? [Re: Simon - PG Music]
Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1646
justanoldmuso Offline
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Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1646
Simon.

I DO agree bout a move away from x86…its time.
Its also interesting to see how intel might respond not only to the m series , but also the ryzens taking market share.
I suspect from my background in a previous life with tech marketing…that intel might drop x86 prices….to combat threats. We shall see.
Eg already the i3 12300 has come out with its interesting single thread passmark score over 3000…which is good for daw work.
I used to do songs yonks ago with a humble athlon lol. I3 Certainly beats that by a mile.

As a stop gap till the processor tech and pcie stabilises, i still feel the off lease
Superb hp z (and lenovo and dell) workstation tower pc’s are a great alternative short term , due to their power//expandeability//low prices//saveings and warranties and the fact that windows is included.
I worked out even if i built a pc i cant beat the advantages of above refurbs , one reason alone being that on a self build the windows cost. its included with refurbs.

It still amazes me how many people buy a often underpowered pc (for daw work) instead the nice refurbs…
Eg for 320 bucks. ive seen hp z 240 with ssd included and win 10.
With lots of expandeability.

Heres a interesting site for cheap refurb workstations (also other desktopslaptops etc)

https://www.wintroniccomputers.com/474-0/refurbished/computer-workstation

Also check out dell refurbished…
Eg what a deal for 250 bucks ..

https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product/bus...mp;gclsrc=aw.ds

look at the large no of us ports on above instead a limited laptop or mini pc. one prob with mac mini is
lack of upgradeability // few ports. but i love the m processor.

Happiness.
Om



Edited by justanoldmuso (07/05/22 05:42 AM)
_________________________
FELLOW USERS PLEASE SUPPORT MY BIAB/RB WISHLIST ITEMS
FEEL FREE TO CRITIQUE MY SONGS IN THE USER SHOWCASE FORUM.

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#723715 - 07/11/22 06:31 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Anyone experienced in m.2 ssd and pcie ? [Re: justanoldmuso]
Registered: 05/19/20
Posts: 1573
Loc: Victoria, BC
Simon - PG Music Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/19/20
Posts: 1573
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: justanoldmuso
As a stop gap till the processor tech and pcie stabilises...

What's unstable about the current processor tech and PCIE? I have a 9th gen and 11th gen Intel machine (i9-9900K and i5-11400) both with NVMe drives, and both are way faster than necessary for typical audio work.

I always say - if you wait for technology to "catch up" to anything, you'll be waiting forever. Something new and exciting is always just around the corner. Unless you need specific hardware for a specific purpose, the best thing you can do is just buy what you can afford and be happy with it.
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