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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 18
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OP
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 18 |
Does the new version of BIAB support Apple silicon natively? There is no reference to it in either the feature & video overviews?
Last edited by ColinMc1; 06/13/22 07:22 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 836
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 836 |
If you are using a Mac with an ARM processor then it will need Rosetta to run.
Best,
Chantelle
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 18
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OP
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Thx Chantelle.
Are there any plans / timelines to support Mac ARM processors natively?
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 176
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 176 |
Hello ColinMc1,
We currently don't have a timeline for native support on ARM processors.
Best,
Jerry
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 18
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Thx Jerry,
If it is possible / easier, the preference would be to have native support for the VST version of BIAB to enable to run DAW's natively - that would be great. BIAB is now one of the few remaining plug-ins that require to run my DAW (Cubase Pro 12) under Rosetta vs native.
The standalone BIAB programe works perfectly fine under Rosetta and I am good with that.
Last edited by ColinMc1; 06/14/22 11:19 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 17
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I'm disappointed with the lack of progress or even news about a future M1 native version that does not require Rosetta. I'm a longtime customer, but I'm not buying again until there's a native M1 version.
I understand how hard it is for a small company with an aged code base to migrate to a new approach. My suspicion is it will never happen because the code base and compiler are so ancient. At some point, Apple will stop supporting Rosetta and then what?
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,544
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,544 |
Band-in-a-a box runs great and fast on Silicon M1 (and x86). Here’s why… The first time the BiaB x86 program is run in a silicon machine, Rosetta 2 does a one-time translation to Silicon. So the first run takes about 5 seconds longer than normal to get started. But on subsequent runs, it runs using the translated silicon code and boots up and runs very fast . A Band-in-a-Box.aot file is created (hidden) in the system which is the “ahead of time” translation file. And that’s what runs every time, not the x64 program app . This means there isn’t emulation running when you are using the program, since it using the previously translated aot app. This is all behind the scenes and it happens to all kinds of programs including Microsoft x86 “Office” programs run on a Silicon m1. Apple describes their process here https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple-silicon/about-the-rosetta-translation-environmentApple hasn’t said they will ever kill Rosetta 2. Why would they? It translates programs to run on Silicon, and it works great. Apple could kill or change a lot of things that would make BiaB stop working (apple installer, core audio, SU plugins, graphics, QuickTime, midi support). We’ve dealt with those successfully for 32 years, and plan to continue that way. For example, the change to Catalina on x86 years ago broke lots of things in BiaB (and many programs) that we needed to fix (and did). For example, Apple installer changed all kinds of things regarding installing programs to drives other than system drive - that would stop even a silicon native program from installing if it was using old methods. btw) we are looking into getting the translation to Silicon done during installation, so that the very first run on Silicon doesn’t have a delay.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,047
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
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That was very informative - particularly given I’m close to purchasing a new Mac.
Thanks!
Bud
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,544
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,544 |
> That was very informative - particularly given I’m close to purchasing a new Mac.
Bud,
Yes, you’ll love the new Macs for many reasons, and BiaB works great on them too.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 17
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Thank you for the details.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 737
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 737 |
Thanks for the information. More than I knew when I started
However, the extra layer (rosetta) of translation is clearly an inefficiency and destined to produce headaches both for developers and users. We've seen these kind of things time and time again over the decades.
IMO,
An obvious reason to stop supporting x86 translation is Apple makes the M1 chip. Apple wants users to upgrade to M hardware. It makes them more $$$. It makes development easier. It also stops supporting a competitor. Soon there will be no Apple hardware running Intel chips. RIP Rosetta shortly thereafter.
Add me to the list of those long time users who feel that a native M version of BIAB is an important criteria to purchase future upgrades.
Disappointing.
Last edited by mrgeeze; 06/16/22 05:57 AM.
biab2023(Mac)
Logic Pro X
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,544
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,544 |
Band-in-a-Box 2022 Mac runs 50% faster on typical Silicon M1 vs typical Intel Macs.
There is no degradation or slow down, it runs faster. That includes bootup, generating and rendering songs.
We will post some benchmarks in a few days. But the fastest and best experience for Band-in-a-Box on a Mac is on the Silicon M1 chips.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1
Newbie
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Newbie
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1 |
Add me to the list of users disappointed that there are no current plans to provide Native Apple Silicon Support for BIAB. I have begun the process of dumping software vendors who do not seem interested in providing Native Apple Silicon Support (Native Instruments and Waves being a couple of them). I still haven't decided if I am going to upgrade to BIAB 2022 as I was under the impression from earlier discussions with PG Music customer service that Native Apple Silicon Support was going to be included in the upgrade. Given that the attitude seems to be that it runs "good enough" under Rosetta I do not get a good feeling that we will ever see a Native Apple Silicon version. If I have misinterpreted the stance by PG Music please let me know.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,544
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,544 |
> Add me to the list of users disappointed that there are no current plans to provide Native Apple Silicon Support for BIAB. I expect that we will have a silicon native version sometime in the future, especially as the share of Macs with M1 chips rises. The M1 machines have been around for less than 2 years now. It’s not simply a matter of recompiling, all of the various tools we use to make the programs also need to get updated, which takes time. But the “good news” in the silicon/m1 story is happening right now that the programs like Band-in-a-Box 2022 on Silicon/M1 already speed up 50% compared to running with intel Macs.. ======== fwiw) For those interested, for many programs, there isn’t much (if any) speed improvements of native programs vs Rosetta programs. Both the Rosetta-run programs and the native ones get about the same huge speed boost on the M1 machines , as you can see below…. Have a look at this YouTube review where a music program is cpu/performance tested (Rosetta vs native M1). The tester went in assuming native would be better performance and less cpu usage, but that’s not what he found. https://youtu.be/o0-j7ovw4Q8?t=410 Of course the performance was fantastic on both the Rosetta and native versions - the tester just didn’t find that the performance of the native one was better than the Rosetta.. And there’s a reason for this. As I explained above - Band-in-a-Box already runs 50% faster on M1 machines than Intel. Because Rosetta is not emulating. It does a one time translation of the program from x86 instructions to M1 silicon (arm) . From then on , the program is always running using the translation. So would BiaB run much faster if it was native on a M1 - the answer would be probably ‘no‘ based on the results in tests of similar programs. Note that some graphics intensive programs like Photoshop do speed up , because they rewrite routines specific parts of the program for GPU and CPU M1/arm Not many companies have the resources to do that, and BiaB wouldn’t benefit as it isn’t graphics/cpu intensive to begin with. =====
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,192
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,192 |
I can confirm BIAB 2022 does run faster on my M1 MacBook Air than my 18 Core iMac Pro. Not a great deal faster but it’s noticeable.
Where Rosetta 2 is an issue is trying to get Native apps to run with non-Native plugins. So far, there have been workarounds for everything I’ve been testing.
It’s a process still in transition and Inot transparent like Rosetta in OS 10.6 was. Thank goodness it’s not as clumsy as the migration from OS 9 to OS X with Classic Mode that wasn’t even available on the G5.
BIAB 2023 Audiophile, 24/60 Core M2 Mac Studio Ultra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer 11, LogicPro
Finale27.4, Dorico5, Encore5, SmartScorePro64, Notion6, Overture5
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 2
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Newbie
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I'm about to buy a new Mac, and have been waiting for the M2 MacBook Air. The new BB version supports the M1. Should I have any concerns about it's function with an M2?
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,192
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Apr 2017
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I'm about to buy a new Mac, and have been waiting for the M2 MacBook Air. The new BB version supports the M1. Should I have any concerns about it's function with an M2? Absolutely none. The base M2 is about 25% faster than the base M1 but system and apps function identically. We have an M1 MB Air for my wife's work. I've ordered the M2 for myself to get the MagSafe charging port instead of USB-C.
BIAB 2023 Audiophile, 24/60 Core M2 Mac Studio Ultra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer 11, LogicPro
Finale27.4, Dorico5, Encore5, SmartScorePro64, Notion6, Overture5
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 18
Enthusiast
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OP
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 18 |
The DAW Plugin build 4.8.7 NOW supports Apple Native Silicon. I upgraded and BIAB VST plug-in now appears when Cubase Pro is running native - no configuration required, just works. This was a very pleasant surprise when I read the release notes.
Great work Peter & team, much appreciated as now I no longer need to run my DAW under Rosetta.
Many thanks
Last edited by ColinMc1; 10/06/22 06:06 AM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,192
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,192 |
DAW Plugin build 4.8.7 NOW supports Apple Native Silicon Beat me to the punch. Way cool!
BIAB 2023 Audiophile, 24/60 Core M2 Mac Studio Ultra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer 11, LogicPro
Finale27.4, Dorico5, Encore5, SmartScorePro64, Notion6, Overture5
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 20
Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 20 |
The DAW Plugin build 4.8.7 NOW supports Apple Native Silicon. I upgraded and BIAB VST plug-in now appears when Cubase Pro is running native - no configuration required, just works. This was a very pleasant surprise when I read the release notes.
Great work Peter & team, much appreciated as now I no longer need to run my DAW under Rosetta.
Many thanks Excellent!!
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
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