PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows Stuttering

Hello to all my old friends.
Life has been a bit up and down over the past few years. A few years ago, I lost almost everything, became homeless, etc. Coming up on two years ago, I was fortunate enough to go to work for the State of Washington, and I am still employed there, albeit for a different agency Money is really tight for me, as I'm sure it is for many of us right now. Having said, that I'm not really able to purchase a new computer right now, but I'm not sure the computer is my problem.

I have four hard drives in this computer, and I had BIAB installed on the E drive, and it's been stuttering, really bad. I can't get it to play a song because it keeps stopping and starting.

So, I had an inexpensive sound card in there with digital S/PDIF Optical in and out. That card was giving me other troubles, so I just put a Creative Labs Z SE card in there. There is no change in the stuttering.

I went ahead and copied the BB folder from the E drive to the C drive. I wanted to copy it because I have all my songs in there, aftermarket styles from Norton Music, and I just wanted to make sure that everything got copied over. I did a clean install to that directory, but the stuttering continues.

Now, my computer is old, it's an Intel i5 3330, but it's 3.3GHz, has 12 gigs of RAM, so it should meet the requirements. My laptop is ancient, it's like a Celeron 2.4GHz, and has 8 gigs of RAM in it. I installed BIAB 2021 on that, and it works fine.

I'm pretty sure the issue isn't in the computer, but if anyone has any ideas on how to proceed, I sure would love to hear them.

I'm guessing what I'm going to have to do is to copy everything that I want to save out of the BB directory to somewhere else, and do a complete reinstall to a clean BB directory, but I really don't want to do that.

I'm open for suggestions, please.

Thanks in advance,

Gary

Hello Gary

The problem may be manifesting itself in multiple ways.

Start Task Manager (right-click on the task bar), then select More Details (at the bottom of the form), then select the Details tab and click on CPU to see what processes are using CPU Time. See if you can identify any programs unexpectedly using high CPU.

Click the performance tab, select Open Resource Monitor (at the bottom), and scan through various items to see if you can identify something that is hogging resources.

You might also try downloading and running a program called CCleaner.
From their website: "CCleaner is the number-one tool for cleaning your PC.
It protects your privacy and makes your computer faster and more secure!"

Unless you have a highly fragmented disk, I don't think moving BiaB to another drive will be the solution.

Hope this helps in some way.

Your laptop should handle BIAB.
Question #1 Can you play a Youtube video ok, without "stuttering"?
If yes, to me it sounds like audio driver issue.

If your audio card has a place to select a buffer, choose at least 512 and try it. If that doesn't do it>

In BIAB go to Audio->Audio Driver/Settings. On the upper right there is a drop down menu: Asio, MME, WAS
Try each and see if stuttering goes away.

Good luck.

Good points.

Definitely try MME and/or WAS drivers. If it's only for playback purposes, MME should give you very good results.

Good advance thus far. I would also shut down anything that is running in the background. Occasionally and I have the same problem when I don't shut down all running background programs. I disable my Ethernet card, anti-virus, anti-malware, cCleaner, and VPN. Also sometimes I have to increase my audio interface's buffers.

I hope this helps and good luck.

I don't think it's the audio card. I have had two. I JUST installed the current audio card on Friday. Both use Optical S/PDIF out. I have tried MME, ASIO and WAS and all three exhibit the same issue. I'm going to assume that it is not the audio card, although I won't rule it out completely.

With a brand new install, clean install to a new directory (a freshly created C:/BB directory, I am still having issues. I haven't copied anything into the folder, no songs, no extras, not even the latest build and it is still having problem.

I'll keep you informed

G

Alright, I downloaded and ran CCleaner Pro Trial. No difference. I changed out all three audio drivers. No difference.

What I DID notice was this. At the very top of the BIAB window, you'll notice the line that shows you that BIAB is generating the back tracks. Usually playback doesn't start until after that is complete. However, in my case, we have the situation where playback starts up while that is still generating and every time to stops or starts to stutter, that generation process is still running, or has started again.

When I press play, it starts to generate the tracks, and it takes a long time, but then you'll hear the song to start, but it stutters like crazy, and you can watch the track generation continue on. Finally, it will settle down, run for maybe two bars, and then the track generation messages come back. It'll stop generating, and then play for another two bars and the track generation comes back again.

I thought that it might have been related to RealDrums and RealTracks, but the same thing is occurring with a file that is all MIDI generated data. You would think that even with just MIDI data, it would not do this, it should be an easy lift. The song I'm using currently as my test bed is only 3:30 minutes long, and whether I use a completely MIDI based file or one with a combination of MIDI and RealDrums or all RealTracks, it does the same thing.

Mario, I've shut down extra stuff, but I don't think that's what it is, since there isn't any difference. I wish it would have been. It's somewhere in the way that BIAB is actually generating the tracks, either MIDI based or RealDrums/RealTracks.

If I used the DAW plug in inside of Cakewalk, all of the tracks generate correctly and I can drag and drop them to the tracks and there is no problem, inside the DAW. But, I don't/can't use that as I'm trying to test out certain styles and I need to be able to do that in BIAB. I don't want to use the laptop for this, although the way things are going, I'm going to have to.

Go to Song Settings ( <Ctrl>N ) and check this box:

I wish it had been that easy. When I click that box, you can see that the song doesn't start until all four instrument tracks have been generated, but it STILL gets one or two bars into the song and it starts to generate the tracks again.

I'm thinking now that this might be a Registry Problem. While Live Help is unavailable today, I have sent them a message and referenced this thread, so maybe they'll be able to shine some light on the problem.

Gary.
questions.
1. when your running cake by itself recording and playing back traks, with no bb running...do you still get stuttering.
2. are you doing music production/trak generation on the same drive as win resides on ? i would advise
to always have win reside on its on drive, and music production on its pwn seperate drive.

there are many possible causes of stuttering just google music production 'audio stuttering'. also google 'disc contention'.

finally there are many guides on not only the net but also here on pg on 'optimising a pc for music production'. such guides can be rather lengthy.

eg here on pg

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=654003#Post654003

hth
om

This is not an audio problem, of that I'm sure. I don't have issues with Cakewalk, I don't have audio issues with streaming services. This is a track generation problem, I'm more sure of that now than ever before. Band in a Box, as you know, generates the tracks for each song, and it chooses from a wide variety of track data. If you don't understand how BIAB generates a track, it looks at the chord progression and the style. For a major chord, depending on the style, it may have five one-bar, five two-bar, and five four-bar 'phrases', for lack of a better word. It chooses a phrase, and transposes it to the chord you're playing. So, for a one-bar phrase, the original phrases may have been written in C, but if your chord is F, it will transpose the notes of that phrase up to F. If you have a C chord playing for four bars, BIAB will normally select a four-bar pattern. However, if you drop a 'C' into the beginning of each bar, then you will have four one-bar patterns of C. Now, if there are five different phrases of that instrument and style, depending on the weighting, you may get four different phrases, one for each bar. BIAB analyzes the song and the different parts, and will generate the parts before the song begins. This is why BIAB can't be used as an 'auto-accompaniment' system in real time, it wouldn't know what was coming up next and wouldn't be able to give the variety that it does.

Okay, so after looking at what's going on, I've come to the conclusion that there is a problem internal to the program, or somewhere on my computer, but not an audio problem. BIAB should generate all of the data before the song starts. If I use the check box for generating the song part before hand, it in fact DOES generate parts for all four instruments, and then starts. But, somehow, for some reason, those parts are either not being generated correctly, or, they are being regenerated once the song starts. As the regeneration of the tracks begins, it causes the playback to stop or stutter. This is the problem, it's not an audio output problem.

I had BIAB on a drive that was not my boot drive, and it exhibited the same behavior there as it does now on my boot drive. I believe that I'm going to need to fully and completely remove any instance of BIAB on my computer, which means doing a clean of the registry, something I'm not happy about doing because I don't know where all of the registry entries may be. Once I do that, then I can go back and re-install it, and I'll put it back on the other drive where it was.

I DID do a complete new install last night/this morning, and the problems still exist, so it's somewhere deep in the system, and I don't know where. I did install from the hard drive, so unless there is an error/corrupted file on the PG Music supplied hard drive, there shouldn't have been any problems for this.

But, there are problems, and I don't know how to fix them.

Gary

Gary.
with great respect fyi i'm aware how bb works haveing done more than 90 songs with it.

the only thing i might suggest is what i always suggest on these forums. ie post pics of your bb driver settings.
and your win audio recording and playback settings.
includeing advanced tab. otherwise the rest of us trying to help are flying blind. it helps pg tech support to diagnose also.

also if win is set to 48k/16 try 44.1/16 bit and see if
its a solution.
bb seems to like 44.1/16 is my experience.

ntn/ymmv/all the best.
om

I occasionally get stuttering on my little old notepad PC. It's about a decade old, though does have in SSD.

The first thing I usually do it turn off WiFi ... it can sometimes perturb things.
I second looking at task manager ... when I get my stuttering, I almost always find some Microsoft background task using quite a bit of resource ... anti-malware; update checker; auto-defrag; and so on.

OM,
Ninety songs is great. However, there are people who use BIAB for what it provides and don't necessarily understand what is going on.

Let me see if I can get a version of Camtasia, if it's still available, and that might help to show the problem.

Gary

Gordon, thank you for the suggestions. I've already done all of that.

This is a problem that is not audio, since it does the same thing for all MIDI files and styles. If it were audio stuttering then the MIDI generation wouldn't stop and stutter as well, but it does.

G

Hi Gary. First, welcome back old friend.

And to anyone else reading, Gary is as qualified as it gets for a user to be diagnosing a problem, better than most of us especially at MIDI.

I read through the thread and have a couple of questions or comments.

First, I believe you said you have BIAB 2021 on the laptop, but what version do you have on the desktop? What build, and of course is it up to date?

You said this: I believe that I'm going to need to fully and completely remove any instance of BIAB on my computer, which means doing a clean of the registry, something I'm not happy about doing because I don't know where all of the registry entries may be.

BIAB does write a few things to the registry, but the last time I looked, they weren't consequential or numerous. They related primarily to two things: fonts, and the last ten files loaded. I would not think that this is the place to spend much time.

Your statement that really bothers me is this one:

you can see that the song doesn't start until all four instrument tracks have been generated, but it STILL gets one or two bars into the song and it starts to generate the tracks again.

I have no explanation for that. It shouldn't happen, and it would seem to explain the stuttering. It's not something I recall ever being reported here, so I think you are going to have to talk with Support. Since you already did a new installation, I'm assuming Return to Factory Settings won't help, but if it were me, I'd try it anyway.

Keep us informed!

Matt

Hey Matt! Went to fellowship this morning, told someone there I needed this thing to be working, since I want to do something at an upcoming fellowship meeting. I'm going to be providing the drums, piano parts, maybe some organ parts, most of it is going to come from BIAB. Got home and half the problems were gone. They still crop up once in a while. I was going to use a screen recorder to capture it, but of course, every time I turn on the screen recorder, it works flawlessly!

You are correct, I said I have 2021 on the laptop, I have 2022 with Build 932 on the desktop, so I'm up to date there.

My problem is that this stuttering, which is caused by regenerating the tracks, affects both RealTracks and 100% MIDI tracks. So, on the MIDI tracks, there is no audio at all, it goes directly out to my keyboard. That's why I'm having problems understanding why this is happening. It shouldn't be.

As to the registry, this computer has had 2018, 2021 and now 2022 on it, and I don't know what might be in the registry. Since this is a clean install, I don't know what controls and triggers the actual generation of the tracks. Since it DOES generate them, I don't see a reason for the track to be regenerated again. This is why I'm going to have to take it up with support, I hope they can give me an answer. For the time being, I'll be looking for that perfect style for the song I'm doing. See if I can audition it here, instead of on the laptop, since my desktop is connected the all the audio and keyboard.

Hope all is well with you, and I'm STILL waiting on your next album! I lost almost all of my CDs and stuff when I became homeless, but I can still listen to your album on Napster/Rhapsody, but I do need to get another physical copy of it, one of these days. I was actually out on your website last night to see if there was anything new. Let me know if you've got something in the works!

Gary

Thanks for the kind words about music. We can follow up by PM.

You are indeed a man of the future with build 932, so I assume you have 923.

Yep, two issues:

1) if it's MIDI only, what's the cause of the stutter even if it is regenerating in the background a second time
2) what in general causes the regeneration of tracks

About #2, we have on occasion made discoveries that BIAB would NOT regenerate after we made a change and we thought it should have (and we reported it and it gets fixed) but never the reverse.

Either I'm getting old, and can't see any more, my memory is failing, or I'm dyslexic, one or the other. Yeah, Build 923. At least I had the correct three numbers! LOL.

Yeah, this one stumps me, and not, it's not doing it like it used to, i.e., every time I hit the play button, but I haven't done anything to the computer or the install, so I'm really confused.

G

Gary
Two things:

1: Did you try any of my suggestions in my first reply to your post, regarding the Task Manager, CPU, Resource Monitor etc? You didn't say what your results were.

2: You mentioned: "When I click that box, you can see that the song doesn't start until all four instrument tracks have been generated, but it STILL gets one or two bars into the song and it starts to generate the tracks again."

How do you know that it starts to generate the tracks again? What indicator do you use to verify this?

Yes, I replied above. I downloaded and ran CCleaner. I switched to all three drivers. I did check the task manager, BIAB was the only thing running, other than system normal stuff and I had 75+% CPU free.

If you look at the very top of the BIAB window, there is a line up there. Unfortunately, I can't show you an image of it, but it's directly above the menu line. When you press Play or Generate and Play, that line will show you the parts that are being generated and a percentage of the generation that's complete. The song should start just as all the parts have been generated. Mine starts the song, but then that line starts to show that all the parts are being regenerated and the song stops, or stutters, while it is trying to regenerate the parts.

For some reason, it's been better than afternoon. I don't know why, I can actually play almost complete songs now, whereas before I was getting stopping and stuttering as soon as the first or second bar. This morning, before it got 'better' I had shut down a whole bunch of stuff that start on start up, and none of it made any difference. I shut the computer off and went out and when I came back, it seemed to be working better, but it still exhibits this behavior.

I don't know why. My device drivers are up to date (thank you for the suggestion for CCleaner, I may have to buy that), but the problems still happen.

I've left a message for support, they probably will get back to me, and I'll see where we go from there.

Gary

Hi Gary,

It's good to see you! I had a quick scan through the above posts and didn't see any answers to the following questions.

Do you have sufficient space on your computer's hard drive? Also, have you stopped any anti-virus software from checking \bb and it's sub-directories?

Regards,
Noel

1:
I now understand that you are looking at the Top Form Caption and that you see it start generating again after you have previously placed a check-mark in that check box and pressed OK and then selected the Generate and Play button.

2:
if that box is checked, this additional generation does not happen on my system.

3:
Can you comment also that you don't have any frozen tracks? I'm not sure if this is related.

4:
If you save, then select File > New to start a new song, and then select Song Settings, does that box show as unchecked?

5: And then if you reopen the original previously saved song, and then select Song Settings, is that box still checked - without you having to re-check it again?

Gary.

Please humour me.

Firstly i’m well aware of your long standing and contributions on these forums.
Cos i started on powertraks many many moons ago, lol.

Its all a question of a process of elimination.
If you could humour moi and post back your settings for sampling rate and bit depth settings in cake (that works) and win as i requested before , this might
Help in elimination of possibles.

One possible re stuttering is sometimes its drivers.
To eliminate this possibility if were me i would rent a usb audio interface for a few days eg behringer uphoria , and IF this works flawlessly then this suggests to moi the issue is with your current selected sound device.

This happened to me once. I was using a pci basic sound device , and once i replaced it with a usb device..probs gone.
Maybe i’m wrong but there are many possible reasons for stuttering.

ymmv/best
om

ps gary i just checked on the net. there are various user comments re stuttering re your chosen sound device.
whether these apply to your situation dunno.

OM, this may take a couple of days tom complete. I have an Edirol USB audio interface I can use. Not a good one.

My Audio is set for 44.1/24. It's set that way across all my applications. This problem has occurred with two different sound cards, the previous CMedia 8828, and the Creative Labs card. However, I don't see where this makes any difference in the actual regeneration of the backing tracks, either audio or MIDI, after the song starts.

All other applications that I have used outside of Band in a Box, including Cakewalk, work correctly with no stuttering. If there was something wrong with the audio card or drivers, then why isn't it happening outside of BIAB in other applications.

Gary

I've created a new song, and in the Song Settings dialog that is not checked, and last night there was severe interruptions to the song, but this morning, none, even unchecked.

Do you know if there is a global setting for that switch? I'll check with Support if I hear back from them, but I don't recall if there is not or not.

None of the tracks are frozen.

Anyway, that one box, checked or unchecked, this morning, doesn't seem to make a difference. I'll post if I have some new information

Thank you for your help.

Gary

Doesn't seem to make difference to what?

Do you see the track being regenerated on the Form Caption like you mentioned if the check box is checked
or
Do you still hear stuttering?

Exactly that is the difference you mention?

Hopefully, PG Music Support can help you to resolve.

Gary.

Believe me when i say i respect your presence on pg over the years.

I’m just trying to help via my own experiences over the years//problems running recording rigs.

The reason i asked bout 44.1/16 is from past posts here it seems some recording rigs have probs when 48khz is chosen as sampling rate.
I would try 44.1/16 across all apps and see if any difference.
I personally have no ‘stuttering’ probs.

As your prolly aware to keep it brief most music apps use the technique of ‘filling audio buffers’ before needed. Ie ‘look ahead’.
Your prolly aware , but i’ll mention anyway….for other folks reading these forums new to bb…IF (from my experiences also in programming)...there is a problem filling the look ahead buffers , then stutters can occur.
Its sorta like a car that ‘coughs’ if its not getting needed fuel.

You said ‘All other applications that I have used outside of Band in a Box, including Cakewalk, work correctly with no stuttering. If there was something wrong with the audio card or drivers, then why isn't it happening outside of BIAB in other applications.’

With greatest respect Ive found from many personal experiences with sound devices over the years one cant assume such.

Another question….
Do you get the ‘stuttering’ when ONLY bb is running and all other music apps are closed ?
in addition have you run a latency monitor app ?

i'm just suggesting ideas to think about.
as i said before it would help pg support prolly if you posted a pic of your bb settings...thus if ok..its something else off the possible problem source checklist.

Happiness//best.
om

Hi Gary,

Nice to see you back here. What is your default VSTi/DXi synth - is it Coyote or something else? Do you have a file AsstSettings.ini in your main bb folder - if so, remove it...

Hello Andrew,
Nice to see you again. I hope all is well with your. Happy belated Canada Day.

I am not using DXi/VSTi synth, but the one selected is Cakewalk TTS

I do not see the asstsettings.ini file in my main BB folder

The problem that I'm having with this issue is that not only does it apply the RealTracks, but also MIDI tracks, or songs with a combination of MIDI and Real Drums. I am sure that it is not an audio issue, although it appears to be manifested that way because the playback/audio stops when the tracks try to regenerate. Jerry sent me an e-mail, and when I replied, I told him that I had one song went like 12-15 bars into the song, just fine, and then started to regenerate the tracks. You can not hit the stop button because it's in the process of regenerating the tracks, but eventually it will try to continue to play. But, moments later, when I tried playing that song again, it was doing the regen two bars into the song. So, there is no 'rhyme or reason' for the way this is behaving that I can point to and say 'When it reaches bar 9, it ALWAYS does this, because it doesn't.

It is infuriating, to say the least.

EDIT. I applied the RealTracks Slow Generation button Jerry selected. It was wonderful, right up to the 42 bar of the song when that very top line starting saying 'Generating Accompaniment' and the playback stopped and started and stopped and started.

I've already lost a lot of my hair, I can't afford to have this issue, I don't want to be bald! LOL :D:D:D


Gary

You asked about the slow generation in the Song Settings. Checking or unchecking that box does not resolve the issue of the tracks regenerating once the song starts. But, the issue is that it doesn't follow any one particular pattern, so I can't say categorically that 'if I press play on this (or any) song, it will start to regenerate the backing tracks at bar 2'



Yes, that is what I was trying to convey. I see that line will finish displaying all of the instrument parts being generated, the song will start, but then, regardless of the status of the Slow Generation switch, it may, or may not, have issues. This is why this is so confusing. The problem, for lack of a better description, is playing 'hide and seek' and it does not always manifest itself




Not sure what I said, but it sometimes will do this, other times will not. It also does the same thing for MIDI-only tracks where no RealTracks, including RealDrum tracks, are involved.

Gary

Welcome back Gary, I have a 12 year old pc myself with 12 GB Ram and biab 22 seems to run fine on it.

I haven't read the whole thread, so sorry if it was mentioned before,

1 Exclude the bb folder from any anti-virus scan.
2 disable as many windows startup programs as possible in Task manager.
3 Try either rolling back the video driver or updating it, think that download installs a sound driver as well.
4 Try Asio4all and mess around with settings buffer size etc.

Hope you get it working asap Gary, good to see you.

I ran CCleaner as suggested earlier, and it did update a few drivers, but the Creative Labs driver is the latest off of their site. Not a whole lot on this computer that's running at any particular time. With BIAB running, 'normally', I'm getting 75%+ of available resources, so I don't think it's a processor unit. it's not the A/V program, I've tried that. So, I have no clue as to what it might be.

I probably should just get a new computer, but right now, money is ultra-tight and I don't have the money to do that.

Gary

Hi Gary, I am really grasping at straws here as this problem only is happening with BiaB but have you tried the following:

1-run a memory test:
https://www.lifewire.com/free-memory-test-programs-2626178

2-Have you tried the registry part of cCleaner? Note some people say
never use a registry cleaner but I have had no issues with cCleaner. cCleaner will ask if you want to make a registry backup prior to making any registry changes and I always do make a backup.

3-Run a thorough virus scan as follows:
a-run cCleaner
b-run rkill https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/download/rkill/
c-run ADWcleaner https://www.malwarebytes.com/adwcleaner
d-run your anti-virus
e-run your anti-malwarebytes

Note all of the above are free.

4-have you had your power supply checked

I say these may clear up your problem IF BiaB is actually addressing something that causes a regeneration that no other program activates in the identical way.

I know these are far out suggestions, especially the power supply one, but this is the only things I can think of that may cause your problem.

I hope this helps and good luck.

Mario,
I was able to capture a video yesterday of the problem. Song started out playing just fine, waited until the 27th bar to start glitching. Caught it on camera and sent it to PG Music. I'll see what they say.

However, having said that, I will run the memory test and the registry cleaner in CClean. Power supply is fairly new, a Seasonic, which I really trust, and 850 watts, so more than enough power to run the system.

It may very well be that I need a new computer, though. There may be issues on the motherboard or CPU that is causing the problems. Currently, I just don't have the money to get one. I'll run those tests tonight and see what I come up with.

Gary

Gary, I would think that if you had issues with the motherboard or CPU you would have issues with all of your software.

PS - I feel your pain as I need to purchase new computers if/when I have to go to Win 11 and money is real tight right now. Plus the short term future isn't looking very good right now either.

Can you reproduce the problem with 2021?
Or is it only happening with 2022?

Can you go to Help > About, and click on CPU Specifications and tell us what it says (or provide a screen shot)?

One thing I have noticed, and I’ve come to change my mind over time about it, is the concept that BIAB should work well if your other audio software works well. I don’t think that’s true now. A comment from a PG Music staffer led me to realize that BIAB has a great deal going on that stresses a computer more than a DAW. Somewhere around the time more tracks were made available, I began to realize this. The CPU is the key for regenerating tracks. A DAW, on the other hand, can run out of memory with too many tracks and effects, but you can solve that by rendering tracks to audio.

Just a thought.

Gary.

Ive got time from my many family commitments..sigh… today…so what the hey i’m gonna go out on a limb , and maybe i’ll get ‘egg on my face’..lol…but ive set up many recording rigs over the years also for friends.

You said you have an edirol audio interface…model no ?
Is it UE-1EX…like this one ?...

https://www.roland.com/ca/products/ua-1ex/
Or fancier ?

If the edirol works with bb, even tho’ you dont like it as you mentioned , then i feel the stuttering is down to choice of sound device.
As i said before i googled on your current sound device your using,..
And found stuttering reported by some. On one thread it mentioned it might be a bios issueif i remember.

Irrespective, i also looked up your processor , while not the fastest around it has a passmark of above 5000. Ive run bb on such.
(ps.. Preferably for daw work i recommend passmark of over 15000 and single thread of over 3000. cpubenchmark.net is very useful for checking various processors and eg stats on integer math and other processing stats. usefull if you choose a new pc.)

What i would do, as i said before is rent a behringer euphoria for a week...
Should cost hardly anything in your area from a reputable store, and see if stuttering disappears. If it DOES then you might considering using a different sound device than the one your useing.

There is a list of sound devices devices that work well with pg products in the realband forum, and if you need a multi client device see a thread i started in the tips n’ tricks area.

Hope you get it sorted mate.
om

I grabbed these from 3 posts of yours on this thread. Sounds like you have at least 2 if not 3 cards. I don't know the model numbers (and drivers they use) of any of them because you didn't reveal that info. That could be helpful. You said you replaced an inexpensive card with a creative card. You might have simply replaced one card that can't handle it with another card that can't handle it and doing that didn't resolve the problem. Kinda like replacing a bad spark plug with another bad spark plug in an engine. It's still not going to work right.

So... years ago, I was pretty active in the Cakewalk forums and helped quite a few new folks get started. If there's one fact that I know.... You gotta have a GOOD, SOLID, NATIVE ASIO running, interface. One of the big things we came up against was Sound blasters, Lab something or other, and Creative cards (oh yeah and UNO midi cables and lets not forget USB condenser mics... but I digress) and people trying to use them and having issues. Trying to run them with ASIO (didn't work cause the card couldn't handle it) or MME, or ASIO4ALL, again, a fail.... I know you say your CW works well and has no issues. you have 2 computers and this issue is with the desktop machine. the laptop is working.

If there's any way you can get your hands on something like a Focusrite Scarlett or something from Presonus.... load ASIO and try that, I'd be curious to know how that works. Borrow one from a friend locally if that's possible. Having a known good interface and solid ASIO drivers will eliminate that as the cause. I know what it's like trying to run a DAW machine with old gear that barely plays mp3 files.... Been there.

What has me puzzled about this as I kept skimming your thread was you mentioned that after you hit PLAYBACK it starts and then randomly starts regenerating the tracks in differing places in the song and that's when the stuttering starts. That right there is really bizarre. That makes me think its a corrupted file in BB. But then again.... if you are running on your laptop and it runs fine and it's the same exact BB and build.... it's gotta be something in the machine itself or the interface/driver. Gotta be.

It's difficult enough to troubleshoot a single problem but if you have two things messing you up that is exponentially harder to resolve. But I think it's just one thing and when you find it you'll be running smooth.


Anyway.... good luck. I'm sure you will eventually get it sorted out. When you do can you please let us know what was causing this? Thanks.

for what its worth i've been running BIAB on soundblaster cards with WAS for years. my current pc runs fine with a soundblaster audigy for playback although for recording i use a uphoria usb interface so i can use a condenser mic.

whatever is causing the stuttering its not - IMHO - the soundblaster card. my bet would be another program kicking in like virus checker or some maintenance software.

I want to address some of these posts all here.

First, I've sent BIAB Support a video of the stuttering. The video I sent had the song starting, and played all the way up to bar 27 before the tracks started to regenerate. This is a problem that is not related to the audio card or drivers. I'm beginning to think it's a CPU or Motherboard issue. I'm going to have to treat it as such.

Blake, you said: Can you reproduce the problem with 2021?
Or is it only happening with 2022?

I had, at one time or another, 2018, 2021 and now 2022 installed on the computer. When I upgraded, I upgraded over the previous install, which is I originally thought this might have been a software issue. I AM running 2021 on a laptop, an old Celeron actually, and it runs fine there. I suspect if I put 2022 on there, it would also run fine. The reason I need to use it on the desktop is my A/D and D/A converters are external and require optical S/PDIF.

Mario, I believe that I am going to have to replace the computer. Right now, money is seriously tight, and I don't have it. Makes me cry not having the money, too, because Korg just released the keyboard I want to replace my 12-year-old keyboard. https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PA5X76--korg-pa5x-76-76-key-arranger-workstation :-) :-D ;-p

Matt, I agree, real tracks generation does put a burden on the CPU, which is why it seems longer and longer to generate the tracks, but, having said that, once the tracks are generated, they're just audio files being played, and even if you have up to 10 audio files playing at once, most computers, even older ones, should be able to handle that. Once generated, the playback (and I've only been using four or five tracks) shouldn't stop to regenerate the tracks.

OM, I haven't had the opportunity to test yet, but my Edirol interface is one of these. https://www.roland.com/global/products/ua-1g/

Bob, I've shut down all sorts of programs, and when using BIAB, my computer free resources are in excess of 75%. Since this is actually having the tracks stop in the middle of the song and regenerate, this is not an audio issue. The audio output stutters and stops because Band In A Box is, for some unknown reason, regenerating the audio tracks inside of the program. I've asked PG Music, they say it's not a software issue, but probably a computer issue. I don't understand that, because there are times when the files play back perfectly, once generated, and other times when it stops at the second bar, the 27th bar, or the 42nd bar to regenerate. So, if it was a computer problem, why the differences? If it's a software problem, why doesn't it do it all the time?

I'm going to have to find a way to buy a new computer, or find a mobo, cpu and ram that I can replace what I have here (even used) and try that. But, for now, I don't have the money, so it's going to have to sit on the back burner.

If I need to record a song, I can use the BIAB PlugIn in Cakewalk and create the audio tracks there, but actually working on a song or trying to find the right styles, or mixing styles, etc., has to be done in BIAB, and of course, that's where the problem is. By the way, generating the audio tracks in the plug in works flawlessly.

Gary

hope you find a solution. if it is a software program kicking in it wouldn't necessarily happen all the time - just when the program was 'triggered'

what background programs does Windows Task Manager show running and is there one you have on the PC you don't have on the laptop?

Good points Bob. As mentioned previously, if it is a resource issue anywhere (CPU, Disk, RAM, even Network), the Task Manager, Resource Monitor, or even Process Explorer should be able to identify it. Process Explorer takes a bit more driving, but the information it provides is significantly more than the other two tools.

Gary.

I would definitely try that edirol and see if the stuts go away.
If it has a user control panel try increasing the buffers. same for creative if it lets you change buffers.

A point to make is most audio interfaces today have such a control panel with a myriad of features including ability to change the buffers.
If the setting is too low sometimes the pc cant handle it and stuts occur. Something important to bear in mind. Does the creative have a buffer control panel ??

Another point is certain daw’s report stats on a sound device.
One aspect i like bout reaper daw is at top right it reports the latency of a sound device. I’m 4ms or less. if cake has this feature its sometimes useful in diagnosis.
If its too low stuts might occur. It would be interesting feedback to rest of us if you could report the latency in ms reported for the creative.

I’m also curious if you get stuts in realband. If you dont in rb but DO in bb,...
his is something to diagnose. .thus i would suggest genning rt’s etc in rb and see what happens.

Gary in addition re new pc, you dont have to spend a lot.
I , and others on these forums love refurbished off lease pc's.
Many of which are beasts of a pc if selected wisely …that can often be had for less than 400 buckies. ..look for HP Z (or lenovo or dell equivalents) workstations.
just google refurbished HP (or lenovo or dell) workstation , 32 gb ram , ssd etc etc.

The states is flooded with off lease beasts of pc’s for little money that come with lots of memory, and you can stuff em’ with multiple ssd’s. AND they often come with 1 year warranties.
I love refurbs cos all the junk is taken off them and with the right refurber they are performance tuned. Just ensure when buying you can return for full refund. Thats what i do…and it might be hard to believe ,...
BUT over many years of buying refurbs i havent had even ONE problem with any. an old refurb i have boots into win in a few secs from cold. same for bb.


Just trying to help/happiness/wishing only the best.
om

All good points. I will add that a virus and/or malware can cause such problems and they may or may not be detected with the above tests. A few messages back I suggested a thorough computer scan using free software. Hopefully Gary has run them and is virus and malware free.

AT, thanx for Process Explorer. That is a new one for me.

Thanks for the thanx! Yes, it's a very powerful tool and one I use occasionally when diagnosing difficult to locate resource issues that are problematic to pinpoint. The top graphs quickly allow one to locate not just instantaneous resource demands, but historical ones also. A great feature.

Gary,

Another setting that may prove helpful is in the RealTrack settings; Ctrl+E > RealTracks.

Enable (Check) the "Speed up generation of RealTracks" and then set the Tempo/Pitch Stretching quality selection to "Low".

Hi Gary,
I PM'd you a couple files that will let us test and confirm if this is specific to 2022, 2021 and/or any specific build.

So, Andrew sent me the cores for both BIAB 2021 and 2022, and both of them failed the same way. I guess the basics of this is that I'm going to need to get a new computer, since I really think that's where the problem is right now.

Gary

I am tremendously puzzled by this.

Without rereading the whole thread, have you posted a song where this happens, so we can test?

I have not posted a song. I had to shut my webpage down quite a while ago, so I don't have anywhere to stick it, but it seems to fail with any song, and any style I use. But, as I told Andrew, it's not an 'all the time' thing, i.e., it can happen multiple places in a song, and multiple times, OR, it may not happen at all.

That may be true, though I'm sceptical that this is a CPU issue as I have both a desktop and a notepad PC with BiaB 2022, the desktop (i5-7400) about 25% more powerful than yours, the laptop probably rather less than yours (dual-core Celeron 1.5GHz).

On the notepad I have to stop some background MS services or sometimes things go into a stuttering mode. I also can't use VSTs that are CPU-resource heavy like PianoTeq. What I do notice with this (Win8.1) PC, though is that once the stuttering starts even killing the probably-offending MS programs doesn't seem to get BiaB to recover.

On the desktop, I just ran a song (Caveat: using Wine on Linux) with ten tracks active, six RealTracks and four MIDI tracks with Native Instruments VSTIs on them and BiaB takes ~10% of the grand total of ~15% CPU. I doubt that BiaB under Wine is more efficient than on Windows (though it may be a little as RealBand reports more tracks available than on Win10 ... I know not why and am cautious about believing it, though this has a performance-oriented kernel). This machine does have a graphics card, though I think BiaB should mostly be lightweight in the graphics as there's little going on on the screen.

My suspicion is that it isn't the CPU, but it might be related some other part of the hardware, maybe a graphics chip and driver (maybe you've already tried that)? Might it be possible to turn off the screen when BiaB is running or try a lower resolution. Years ago we used to turn off the Ethernet, but I'm doubtful that would a problem now. Bluetooth?

Gordon,
I"m not sure. Right now, I have BIAB loaded onto a laptop, and it's doing what I need to do there. There may be an issue with this computer, I do have a problem with one slot, although upon examination I can't see anything wrong with it, but it doesn't work properly. (I'm an electronics tech, I know what I'm looking for) Everything else does, so I'm wondering if there is a problem on the Motherboard. Since it doesn't effect the audio or video streaming of anything else, live streams, YouTube, other audio including Cakewalk, I didn't think it would effect BIAB. But, any more, I don't know. It's endemic to this computer, not my other ones, so that's all I can guess.

So, maybe it's making a call out somewhere on the board, and getting bounced around and coming back as a failure. I don't know.

Gary

I know how frustrating these things can be!

I had the same thinking (I too am tech), that it's likely something motherboard-related, which could be anything from a dodgy capacitor to a chip fault to a fundamental flaw in the board design.

Whilst money is tight and if the laptop does the job for now, I personally would be tempted to live with it. YMMV.

Which is where I'm going with it. If necessary, after I build it out in the laptop the way I want it, I can transfer the file to the desktop, open Cakewalk, and use the PlugIn to put the tracks in Cakewalk and go from there. It's just a pain to have to move from one to the other, physical room, etc.

But, yeah, if that's the way it has to be, so be it, at least until I find some more money.

G

An update to this. It would appear that the problem was a hardware issue. Replacing the motherboard, CPU, RAM and video card appears to hvae fixed the problem, at least for now. So, I'm thankful that all of you were here to offer your suggestions and your help in this matter. I'm sorry I put you through all of that, though, for what probably was an issue on the motherboard.

Gary

I'm glad you have it sorted, though sad that you had to replace so much.

Unusual for a motherboard to be the issue, but certainly not unheard of. If the problem returns (and I hope it doesn't) another sometime cause is the PSU having a low or dirty voltage.

I remain puzzled, but I’m glad it’s working for you. So the only things you didn’t replace were your disk drives (keeping the case and peripherals); did Windows have to be reauthorized?

Hi Matt,
Yeah, I have a relatively new Seasonic PSU, my Go-To PSU. I kept the case, the hard drives, the sound card and that was about it.

As to reauthorizing, yes, but I had the serial number, so it wasn't an issue. Same thing for my copy of Office 2010, that needed to be reauthorized, too, although I just clicked on the button for that.

During all my issues, I lost my primary computer due to a bad CPU. I had been using liquid cooling and while there was fluid in the tank, I think the lines gunked up and the CPU overheated, slowly. So, I still had the hard drives. My sister gave me an older Gateway computer, with a third generation i5 in it and I think the mainboard might have had an issue, and that was made more evident after I posted the thread when I tried to install an USB 3.0 PCI-e card and it wouldn't recognize it. The only slot was the GPU slot (there was built in graphics I was using).

So, I spent money I didn't have to spend, picked up the stuff I needed, and while my new CPU is only a Ryzen 5 5600G, it should work for a while.

Gary

Glad you got it figured out..... I hate it when things go wrong inside the chips.... such a pain.

Setting up a new machine is not fun either. Been there more times than I care to remember.