I`m wondering if anyone could help me put some chords to a song I`ve written.
I retired a while back and decided I`d like to try my hand at writing songs as I`ve always loved music, my problem is I dont play an instrument, so I`ve been using loops, and thats fine if you write the song to the loop, but if you create the song first its hard to find a loop that fits.
So, I`ve found bandinabox, and its terrific, no doubt about it, I`ve started watching all the help videos, but I`m a long way off the pace yet.
I`d like to find out what my song sounds like with some chords behind it.
Anyway thats where I am, and if someone has the time I`d really be very grateful.
I`m wondering if anyone could help me put some chords to a song I`ve written. ... I`d like to find out what my song sounds like with some chords behind it.
Firstly, Welcome.
Just to clarify, you've written a song, but currently it has no chords.
Does your song have a Melody that you composed?
Does your song have Lyrics that you have written?
Do you have a musical style in mind? Pop, Rock, Metal, Latin, Swing, Jazz, Hip Hop, etc?
What version of BiaB do you have? Pro, Ultra, and what year etc.
Give us a base to start from. There will be people here who can offer some suggestions to get you going.
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
I`ve got the melody and the lyrics writen, I`ve posted them on Drop Box, I just did the first verse as there is no choras as such, I see it as contempory folk, maybe acoustic guitar, I`m using version 19.
record the melody import it into BIAB and have the Chord Wizard analyse it and offer chords... Not as easy as it was in previous versions of BIAB, for me, but since you'd be learning it 1st time you won't have problems with old way versus new.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
record the melody import it into BIAB and have the Chord Wizard analyse it and offer chords... Not as easy as it was in previous versions of BIAB, for me, but since you'd be learning it 1st time you won't have problems with old way versus new.
Thanks rayc, I`ll try that.
ps. Sorry about the number of same posts, they didn`t show up at the time.
Thanks rayc, I`ll try that. ps. Sorry about the number of same posts, they didn`t show up at the time. Dev
That's not an uncommon thing mate. If you know how you can actually record the melody right into BIAB. Record the melody where ever you can - even a phone but it's REALLY helpful if you can remove as much empty file from before your melody so that you're not going nuts trying to line things up...If you have a version of BIAB developed before 2022 you might find the Audio Chord Wizard a little less daunting. Best advice...record the melody and then re & reread the sections about the ACW...and be prepared to have a few goes learning how it works. Once you've sorted it you'll have something that will make your songwriting life much easier. oh, probably best to just record one each of your verse and chorus as if your pitch or memory wanders as you record it BIAB will reflect that. It's no big thing to copy verses and choruses in the chord or arranging window once you have the results of the ACW. Good luck.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
I`ve managed to get the vocals into chord wizard but so far its playing the chords its suggested far to slow, and it wont let me change the tempo,but I`ve got the rest of the week-end to play around with it.
SO.... Using the ACW to figure things out when you are first getting started can be an exercise in frustration. I know the problems I have encountered trying to use it and I halfway know my way around BB.
try it this way.
Open a new project and select STYLES.... the style picker opens and you can then listen to the styles in BB in the demo mode. Use the filter for genre to limit the option to that particular genre..... Pop, Medium rock, Salsa, Easy jazz.... etc... whatever you think the song needs to be.
Once you find something you think would sound good and work for your potential song.... Select it.
Most songs have 3 basic chords... which are the 1 the 4 and the 5.... or in a key of say C major..... the C the F and the G. Knowing that... start with a C and add the chords necessary to fit what you're hearing in your head. You can easily change the tempo and the key if it works better in a different tempo or key. While you may not know much about BB now... or music theory... you will learn quickly and be able to create new songs quickly and easily using this method. Even now, I still start out pretty much this same way as I just described. Pick a style, and start entering chords.... add, delete, copy, paste, delete, and in no time I have a song that pretty much works. Once you get a verse...and a chorus..... use Copy/paste to quickly add the remainder of the verses and choruses. This saves a lot of time. Delete the measures/bars you don't need and hit the ending..... waaa laaa.... a song is born.
Ask more questions if you run into things you don't understand or can't figure out. Also.... watch the videos in the video support section of the PG music website. LOTS of good solid advice and information to be had in there.
Good luck
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
Herb has you started off in the right direction and BIAB makes it REALLY easy to do what he just said, with Chord Builder. See attached screenshot. You get to it through "Edit" on the top of the menu. Or use Chord Builder icon at the near bottom right hand side of the screen, before the chord input bars start (just above User Tracks Icon).
This is all very simple, actually. Let me break it down.
1.) Yes, Herb is right. In Pop, country, whatever you basically have 4 chords--the I, IV, V, and VI minor.
In the Key of C, that would be C, F, G, Am.
2. There are approximately 24 "standard" chord progressions built from just these four.
For example, at one chord per measure in a fast song, the Verse chords could go:
C, F, G, C, or they could go C, F, C, G, or they go could C, F, C, F, or they could go Am, C, F, C
But at any rate, if you just "shuffle" your choices starting with the I, IV, V, or VI, you get at least 24 common variations--or more, depending on your variations. Try them all.
For slower songs, you would have 2 chords per measure, kinda sorta, but the concept is the same.
3. The non-fast but general "kinda sorta" rule is that you can't start the Verse and chorus on the same chord. This is not hard and fast, but the idea is, try to do something different in the chorus. If you start the verse on C in the Key of C, try starting on G in the chorus for a lift. If you started the verse on G in the Key of C, it might work well to start the chorus on C (the I). Try it.
4. Look at the Chord Builder. If you click on any chord you will heard it play and it will enter it for you. If you don't like that sound, pick another chord.
5. Once you do what Herb said and START the song by punching in some common standard version of a I, IV, V, VI minor you call THEN go to chord builder and look at all the chords on the top row that will work in that progression. Try them and see how they sound. The lower rows are for jazz. (But the slash chords are also critical for rock, folk and pop to build emotion. You must master them.)
So, Chord Builder makes it really easy to experiment. Really easy. Try it, use it, experiment. Have fun. That is what music is.
P.S. You also have to find your range before you put chord to a melody. For example, lots of baritones are most comfortable in the Keys Eb, E, F, G, Ab, A, Bb, B or C, in that order, where C contains the highest notes you would hit.
If you were to write a song in the key of G where the highest notes are above middle C in the Key of G, then a baritone would not be able to hit those easily. That is, some baritones cannot sing a high melody in the key of G unless it is shifted down a whole octave, and that doesn't sound right.
If you write a melody in the key of G with high notes, and the Baritone says, I can't do that, try the Key of C with the melody transposed down. If it still does not work, try Bb.
Hope this makes sense.
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
I`ve managed to get the vocals into chord wizard but so far its playing the chords its suggested far to slow, and it wont let me change the tempo,but I`ve got the rest of the week-end to play around with it.
Dev
Well, That's sort of typical. I've rarely managed to get a great result but I usually get enough information to carry on with. If 'twere me... I'd copy the chord sequence...screen shot or similar Go back into the "normal" chord entry section of BIAB, Select a style & tempo that suit as a staring point Enter the chords playing around with things until I find I can sing along with it.
From there I'd tweak the arrangement etc. and then record a vocal TO the BIAB backing.
Last edited by rayc; 07/17/2211:33 PM.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
I`ve managed to get the vocals into chord wizard but so far its playing the chords its suggested far to slow, and it wont let me change the tempo,but I`ve got the rest of the week-end to play around with it.
Dev
Well, That's sort of typical. I've rarely managed to get a great result but I usually get enough information to carry on with. If 'twere me... I'd copy the chord sequence...screen shot or similar Go back into the "normal" chord entry section of BIAB, Select a style & tempo that suit as a staring point Enter the chords playing around with things until I find I can sing along with it.
From there I'd tweak the arrangement etc. and then record a vocal TO the BIAB backing.
Thanks again rayc, that certainly helps and I can get a working backing track, though I cant get the feel I hear in my head.
I`m also having some success with the advice from Guitarhacker and David Snyder, but again I cant pin down the feel I hear, I`m trying out some different styles so hopefully I find something I`m happy with.
Its fun though and I`m learning things I didn`t know!!
Thanks again rayc, that certainly helps and I can get a working backing track, though I cant get the feel I hear in my head.
I`m also having some success with the advice from Guitarhacker and David Snyder, but again I cant pin down the feel I hear, I`m trying out some different styles so hopefully I find something I`m happy with.
Its fun though and I`m learning things I didn`t know!!
Can you name a song that has a similar feel? If so type it in the song filter.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
I've been following your thread, and reading all the excellent replies, but my advice to you is different:
Get yourself an instrument, and spend some time learning it. Guitar, piano, anything you can play chords on. Honestly, you can't learn music on a computer.
You can buy instruments for less than $500 that will help you learn. I'm not plugging anything, but Casio Privia's are a good place to start. You can get them even cheaper on the used instrument market. Even a guitar from Sears will be enough to get you started.
I've been following your thread, and reading all the excellent replies, but my advice to you is different:
Get yourself an instrument, and spend some time learning it. Guitar, piano, anything you can play chords on. Honestly, you can't learn music on a computer.
You can buy instruments for less than $500 that will help you learn. I'm not plugging anything, but Casio Privia's are a good place to start. You can get them even cheaper on the used instrument market. Even a guitar from Sears will be enough to get you started.
Best of luck, Dev!
Ken
+1000!
Byron Dickens
BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency.
You're using a rather loose definition of the word "music."
Byron Dickens
BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency.
[/quote]Can you name a song that has a similar feel? If so type it in the song filter.[/quote]
Yes indeed, more good advice!!
I tried to learn the guitar way back in the day but gave up, I think it may be too late for me now, but I feel BIAB will be a big boon once I get the hang of it...
Can you name a song that has a similar feel? If so type it in the song filter.[/quote]
Yes indeed, more good advice!!
I tried to learn the guitar way back in the day but gave up, I think it may be too late for me now, but I feel BIAB will be a big boon once I get the hang of it... [/quote]
You are never to old to learn an instrument. I was around 71 when I started to learn my wind controller.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Most songs have 3 basic chords... which are the 1 the 4 and the 5...
And this is exactly where the divide begins, Herb. Let me play "newbie" for a minute.
"The 1 the 4 and the 5 of what?"
Your answer would correctly be "The 1, 4 and 5 of the scale."
"What's a scale?"
I have discovered that trying to explain theory to people with no music background is similar to having some little green alien drop to the earth from Mars and try to teach him about football or baseball. There is SO MUCH implied knowledge involved. You and I and whoever else is in this thread KNOW 1-4-5. (We even know about 6 minor!)
My best male pal Andy has like 6 guitars and all he can play is the intro to Smoke On The Water. He asked me to try to teach him. I said "I can't. I can't teach you anything about guitar until you know enough about music to know what a half step is. And a 3rd. And a 5th. I can't teach you about the guitar neck until you can relate that one fret equals a half step, and know what steps are." And so forth. I sat him down with a guitar on his shoulder and had him put a finger on any fret he wanted. I then played that note on the keyboard and told him to move down one fret and showed him the correlation of that fret to the keyboard. I spent an hour with him. For the whole hour I saw the same the same look on his face that you'd see when if you tried to explain long division to your dog.
Now, I am a horrible teacher under any conditions, but for someone with absolutely no ear to know when music moves up or down, major being "happy" and minor being "sad"... I can't do it. The is as frustrating to me as I imagine it would be to try and explain to someone who can't see what "red" is. When I try to teach music I find myself saying things like "How can you not know that??"
I don't know the OP here or their level of musical knowledge. If 1-4-5 is beyond the scope, advising them is going to be difficult.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023? 2. Send it to us.
I have discovered that trying to explain theory to people with no music background is similar to having some little green alien drop to the earth from Mars and try to teach him about football or baseball. There is SO MUCH implied knowledge involved. You and I and whoever else is in this thread KNOW 1-4-5. (We even know about 6 minor!)
I think this is very important. As someone who, at 60, started learning to play piano I often struggled to make sense of things, partly because there is so much that's not just new and unfamiliar; quite a bit does sound alien.
It's one of the givens in music education, that the educators already know this stuff and even simplifying some to the very basic indeed can still go over the head.
I remember watching videos where something simple like 1-4-5 was being shown, but I didn't know where to look, so I'd miss it. Rewind, try again, miss it again. It's better with a keyboard graphic, but even then, in the early stages, recognising what was the note would be hard. But this is really easy stuff and I'm far from dumb. If I can struggle, then so can almost anyone.
I know there are people who can just hear a tune and they can play it, but very often those people grew in childhood with musicians around them. They learned music theory like they learned to speak. Some of us never had that early stimulus. Music is another language and it's unlike any other language I know.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
................ My best male pal Andy has like 6 guitars and all he can play is the intro to Smoke On The Water. He asked me to try to teach him. .....................
I chuckled when I read those lines. I had a friend that had some very expensive top of the line Fenders and Martens and he couldn't play the into to Smoke On The Water! I tried to teach him but he just didn't get it. He had a great ear for music and in fact could point out spots in our music that only he heard and he was right most all of the time. But when it came to playing forget about it.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
C'mon folks, get back to helping the OP. He's tried playing & it didn't work out. BIAB is made for just such a case isn't it? As to what is & isn't music that's a matter of taste, culture, experience, history and training/programming. Most folk still don't accept atonalism as "music" and I'm sure Schoenberg wouldn't have been keen on New Country, (is anyone?). The ear versus the fingers - remember that BIAB is also a GREAT tool for those with problems processing physical movement...Stephen Hawkins couldn't type but he could certainly write. My old man has a good ear but by the time he bought a guitar, (he was 56), he wasn't agile/subtle enough with his hands to make it happen. He can hear what is right n wrong according to his musical background/listening though.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
And this is exactly where the divide begins, Herb. Let me play "newbie" for a minute.
"The 1 the 4 and the 5 of what?"
Your answer would correctly be "The 1, 4 and 5 of the scale."
"What's a scale?"
I have discovered that trying to explain theory to people with no music background is similar to having some little green alien drop to the earth from Mars and try to teach him about football or baseball. There is SO MUCH implied knowledge involved. You and I and whoever else is in this thread KNOW 1-4-5. (We even know about 6 minor!)
My best male pal Andy has like 6 guitars and all he can play is the intro to Smoke On The Water. He asked me to try to teach him. I said "I can't. I can't teach you anything about guitar until you know enough about music to know what a half step is. And a 3rd. And a 5th. I can't teach you about the guitar neck until you can relate that one fret equals a half step, and know what steps are." And so forth. I sat him down with a guitar on his shoulder and had him put a finger on any fret he wanted. I then played that note on the keyboard and told him to move down one fret and showed him the correlation of that fret to the keyboard. I spent an hour with him. For the whole hour I saw the same the same look on his face that you'd see when if you tried to explain long division to your dog.
No offense, but I think you went about this exactly backwards.
What your friend needed to know was not intervals and all that. What he needed to know was how to play the rest of the song.
He asked you what time it was and you tried to tell him how to build a clock
Last edited by Byron Dickens; 07/21/2202:28 PM.
Byron Dickens
BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency.
I don't know a lot about Band In A Box. I do have some understanding of music and can play guitar a little.
Here is some simple stuff you can do. Each one of those little rectangles you see in BIAB represents one measure.
Confine your first experiences to only four measures. Type in C,G,F,C in those first four little rectangles. It really does not matter if you understand why I would ask you to use those chords or even what a chord is. The fact that it is a 1,4,5 does not matter. The fact that it is in the key of C does not matter.
Play that little what we call a "chord progression" out with different styles and go figure out how to loop it so you can really listen to it play over and over. Figure out how to change the speed, which we call tempo.
Those are very easy to learn things to do in BIAB. This will teach you a couple of things. One, how to do some simple stuff with BIAB and what different styles actually sound like, and two what one of the most common "chord progressions" in music really sounds like. It will train both your mind and your ear.
After you do that for a bit I would be glad to help you get to the next step in figuring out a little more about how to build a simple song in BIAB.
It is best to confine your style choice to the sort of music you like to listen to in the beginning.
You can make songs using only a computer and BIAB software. It is done every day. That may in the future lead you to other adventures in music like learning to play something.
Best of luck with your learning and be assured there are a lot of nice folks here who will be glad to help you on your way.
One of the issues you will run into is that there are a zillion choices of things to do with BIAB. Best to limit things in the very beginning.
Billy
EDIT: I went back and read all your posts again. You may or may not ever find the exact "feel" in BIAB you hear in your head. At least you have some better ideas on how to look for it. It is very unlikely anyone using only BIAB can write a song and have BIAB play out exactly what they hear in their head. It is much less frustrating in the beginning to make your ideas conform to BIAB that trying to force BIAB to conform to your ideas.
You can without too much effort generate music with BIAB. Like any tool it has limitations. It also takes time to learn to use.
Last edited by Planobilly; 07/21/2205:19 PM.
New location, new environment, new music coming soon
Seize the moo-ment If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo
I don't know a lot about Band In A Box. I do have some understanding of music and can play guitar a little.
Here is some simple stuff you can do. Each one of those little rectangles you see in BIAB represents one measure.
Confine your first experiences to only four measures. Type in C,G,F,C in those first four little rectangles. It really does not matter if you understand why I would ask you to use those chords or even what a chord is. The fact that it is a 1,4,5 does not matter. The fact that it is in the key of C does not matter.
Play that little what we call a "chord progression" out with different styles and go figure out how to loop it so you can really listen to it play over and over. Figure out how to change the speed, which we call tempo.
Those are very easy to learn things to do in BIAB. This will teach you a couple of things. One, how to do some simple stuff with BIAB and what different styles actually sound like, and two what one of the most common "chord progressions" in music really sounds like. It will train both your mind and your ear.
After you do that for a bit I would be glad to help you get to the next step in figuring out a little more about how to build a simple song in BIAB.
It is best to confine your style choice to the sort of music you like to listen to in the beginning.
You can make songs using only a computer and BIAB software. It is done every day. That may in the future lead you to other adventures in music like learning to play something.
Best of luck with your learning and be assured there are a lot of nice folks here who will be glad to help you on your way.
One of the issues you will run into is that there are a zillion choices of things to do with BIAB. Best to limit things in the very beginning.
Billy
EDIT: I went back and read all your posts again. You may or may not ever find the exact "feel" in BIAB you hear in your head. At least you have some better ideas on how to look for it. It is very unlikely anyone using only BIAB can write a song and have BIAB play out exactly what they hear in their head. It is much less frustrating in the beginning to make your ideas conform to BIAB that trying to force BIAB to conform to your ideas.
You can without too much effort generate music with BIAB. Like any tool it has limitations. It also takes time to learn to use.
First off, I have to say I`m so impressed with, and grateful for the amount of help I`ve received here, this support really helps with learning as much as possible about BIAB, sticking with it and trying out all the good advice I`ve been given.
I`m finding the more I "play around" with it the more I`m beginning to understand, not just about BIAB but about music, though I have to say I need a little more time to get my head round 1,4,5, but again, theres so many good videos around these days.
I`ve listened to a lot of songs posted here, and they all have that really professional sound, they all sound "interesting", whereas, for now anyway, mine sound contrived and sterile.
Its a learning curve, but its a fun learning curve...
I will try to take the mystery out of the 1,4,5 concept for you.
Here is a graphic of a piano keyboard. I am using the piano because it is visual and easy to understand.
The note shown in the middle is called "middle C. Notice there are both white keys and black. For the moment, disregard the black keys.
Starting with the C note, using only white keys, we can form something called a C scale. The letters in a C scale are C,D,E,F,G,A,B, and then it starts over. We can also number those letters. C=1,D=2,E=3,F=4,G=5,A=6,B=7. So notice that C is 1, F is 4, and G is 5. So that is where the 1,4,5 comes from.
We call that a one, four, five progression. It is the most common progression in music and thousands of songs have been constructed using that progression. There are three ways to put that in writing. One, Four, Five or 1,4,5 or I, IV, V. The last being the way you would normally see it written in musical terms.
There is a function in BIAB that lets you change the key. If you type a 1,4,5 into BIAB and tell it to change the key it will show you the letter names of any 1,4,5 in whatever key you choose.
This is one of the most basic and fundamental concepts of music theory. This idea of letters and their corresponding numbers is how we define progressions, chords, and many other things for example.
There is no absolute need to understand any of this. At the end of the day, music is about sound. If it sounds good to you, that is all that really matters. Music theory is just a way that has been developed to be able to communicate musical ideas in a somewhat standard way. Any chord progression can be used but not all chord progressions will sound good to you.
So...here are some definitions of things being discussed.
Musical scale...any graduated sequence of notes, tones, or intervals. An example is the C scale.
Chord...A chord is the layering of several tones played simultaneously. Tones are sounds produced by depressing the keys on a piano for example. An example is a C chord comprised of the first, third, and fifth notes of a C scale.
Chord Progression...In a musical composition, a chord progression is a succession of chords. An example is a one, four, five.
Key...in music theory, the key of a piece is the group of pitches, or scale, that forms the basis of a musical composition. An example is the key of C.
The deifications I have given you are the most simplistic I could come up with and there is more to learn.
I hope I have described all this in a way you can easily understand.
Billy
New location, new environment, new music coming soon
Seize the moo-ment If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo
I'll just add a little to PianoBilly's excellent explanation.
In a major key, which is what the C scale is in the explanation, there happens to be three major chords, three minor chords, and one other chord(*).
It also happens that the three major chords are that 1, 4 and 5; I, IV and V.
The three minor chords are 2, 3 and 6 and in the Roman numerals notation, they're usually written lower case: ii, iii and vi. Usually, but not always. So the 'sixth' that's been mentioned elsewhere in this thread is a minor chord.
(*) The last chord is "diminished" and slightly different. Something for later if you don't already know that. It's normally written as vii followed by a 'degree' symbol.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
Dev, a lot of information has been given but maybe you are not at this part of the music theory learning curve yet. I would suggest you get the Music Theory for Dummies book:
It will start you out at square in put things into an organized order.
I have used Dummies books (I do not like that Dummies name, beginners would be a better thing for a title) a number of times and I have found them to be very good.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
There is no absolute need to understand any of this. At the end of the day, music is about sound. If it sounds good to you, that is all that really matters. Music theory is just a way that has been developed to be able to communicate musical ideas in a somewhat standard way. Any chord progression can be used but not all chord progressions will sound good to you.
Bingo.
Music theory is a description, not a prescription.
It is not a set of "rules" that one must "obey" in order to write "proper" music. It is a way do explain how the composer put together a piece of music.
Rather than jumping in to theory right away, it is a much better idea to pick up an instrument and start learning to play some music. Learn a few easy songs.
Once you learn a few songs and start making the connection between your hands and your ears, then you can start learning the theory. Music theory is useless without a context.
Many, many rock and folk songs, for instance, are built on a bVI - bVII - i progression, but that is absolutely meaningless until you have that sound in your ears. Once you learn several of those tunes and are familiar with that sound, when someone explains what bVI - bVII - i means the light bulb comes on!
Byron Dickens
BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency.
Music theory ... It is not a set of "rules" that one must "obey" in order to write "proper" music. It is a way do explain how the composer put together a piece of music.
... and it is one of the primary ways we guide BiaB to do what we want.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
Just this week I decided to sign up for Guy Michelmore’s (ThinkSpaceEducation) “how to write music course”. (I like the way Guy does things). He mentions (somewhere) the need to really understand music theory and/or have the ability to read music is not really required but can offer some advantages.
His main thing seems to be start with a simple “motif”, just 4 or 5 notes then build up from there. Do your stuff in a quiet secluded area and not be discouraged. You can find many of Guy’s videos on YouTube where he demonstrates the process. He also has a free taster course.
Guy seems to do stuff very quickly but he does tear up as many lines as he keeps. Sure a lot of what he does applies to orchestration but it is very easy to apply the same skills to playing live or BIAB or whatever.
ThinkSpaceEducation.com offer several “free” mini courses on composing and music theory. These are well worth looking at.
My thoughts
Tony
Last edited by Teunis; 07/22/2212:30 PM.
HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home, Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612 BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
Not really, Byron. Every time music comes up in conversation he says "I really want to learn how to play." I have never and will never teach somebody "songs". I am happy to try and teach them "music", but if you want to learn from me you learn about the WHY rather than just the result. He can play that intro, but when it hits the verse he has no idea what to do, because he doesn't know notes, which make up chords, which make up intervals, usually around the circle of 5ths.
Nothing is ever gained through shortcuts and "you do it for me" mentality. Trying to teach him about 3rds, 5ths... That's intervals, no?
If you walk up to a stranger who knows nothing about music and tell him that a major chord is 1-3-5, he won't know what a chord even is, what "major" means, and think 1-3-5 are just the first 3 prime numbers. It is impossible to teach with implied knowledge like knowing what 1-3-5 means unless somebody knows about scales. I am not saying yo need to know Dorian from Phrygian from Aeolian mode, but geeze, if you are going to bother learning about a subject, ANY subject, then learn it.
Last edited by eddie1261; 07/22/2212:52 PM.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023? 2. Send it to us.
Not really, Byron. Every time music comes up in conversation he says "I really want to learn how to play." I have never and will never teach somebody "songs". I am happy to try and teach them "music", but if you want to learn from me you learn about the WHY rather than just the result. He can play that intro, but when it hits the verse he has no idea what to do, because he doesn't know notes, which make up chords, which make up intervals, usually around the circle of 5ths.
Nothing is ever gained through shortcuts and "you do it for me" mentality. Trying to teach him about 3rds, 5ths... That's intervals, no?
If you walk up to a stranger who knows nothing about music and tell him that a major chord is 1-3-5, he won't know what a chord even is, what "major" means, and think 1-3-5 are just the first 3 prime numbers. It is impossible to teach with implied knowledge like knowing what 1-3-5 means unless somebody knows about scales. I am not saying yo need to know Dorian from Phrygian from Aeolian mode, but geeze, if you are going to bother learning about a subject, ANY subject, then learn it.
Bull.
How does he know how to play the intro? Isn't it made up of notes & (partial) chords?
Jimi Hendrix didn't know all that either.
Last edited by Byron Dickens; 07/22/2202:40 PM.
Byron Dickens
BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency.
Stare at a keyboard in a music store. It does not have to be expensive. Most any keyboard will do.
Put your left hand pinky on the C below middle C and play these notes up in a row, playing all white keys and skipping none. When you run out of fingers on your left hand, pick up with your right thumb.
C D E F G A B C.
Also known as Root (1), 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, Root
Now with your left hand pinky on that lower C, add in the E with your middle finger (that is the third, C is the 1). Also add your thumb to the G, the 5th.
That is the C major chord triad.
Play it several times. Listen to the beauty. Play this chord with your left hand. Later you will learn to add melody notes with your right hand, but that is for another day.
Now take that SAME SHAPE and move the whole thing up by one key.
That is D minor. The second chord. (Minor second.) D F A
Move up one more key.
That is E minor. The minor third. (In chord theory.) E G B
Move up one more.
That is F. The fourth. F A C
Move again. That is G. The fifth. G B D
Move again. A minor. The minor 6th. A C E
Move again, playing B, D, F.
That is B diminished. (The triad.)
Move one more.
You are back at C. C E G.
Stare at your hands while you play these chords.
All of music is in there, it's just key changes and accidentals from there...but most songwriters use little more than that.
Try it.
You will fall in love.
I promise.
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
< "my problem is I dont play an instrument." ... "I`m wondering if anyone could help me put some chords to a song I`ve written." > using BIAB?
I have a friend that's a songwriter and like you, he doesn't know music theory and can't play a note on any instrument. But he's written many songs, is a member of NSAI, Charlotte for many years and used a technique of hiring a professional demo company to perform his songs.
You can do the same using BIAB as your 'demo company' by learning the different ways BIAB can populate the Chord Chart and how to select a style that matches your song.
BIAB can play 3 different types of files:
MIDI Audio MIDI/Audio mixture
Chords can be entered by:
Manually writing in the chords Importing chords from a text file Opening a MIDI File Import an XML file Opening a BIAB SGU file that has the chords already entered Using a USB connected MIDI instrument Importing an audio file and using the Audio Chord Wizard to analyze the Chords from the audio
The first 5 in the list above are likely the most beneficial for you to focus on.
Chords can be sourced in dozens of ways. Songbooks, google, YouTube, Facebook, SGU files, MIDI Files, word of mouth, tutorials and so on.
Just for fun, let's write your first song today using BIAB and a popular chord progression you've learned here on the forum - the I,IV,V
Open a new blank project - BIAB defaults to this. It will have a default style that includes a key signature, tempo, feel, time signature and default instruments. All that's lacking is Chords and you have 3 chords in the I,IV,V progression. Millions of songs have been written for generations using this progression.
To write a song using the I,IV,V progression, you only need to hear the progression repeated over and over (like a loop playing) so let's do that using on the first 4 measures (those blocks on Chord Sheet).
Don't worry about chords - We'll let BIAB take care of that...
In the first box type the number 1 and enter In the second box type the number 4 and enter In the third box type the number 5 and enter
Use your mouse and click the fourth block and with the left button of mouse pushed, move the curser to the left until all four blocks are highlighted in black.
Hit the F10 button on your keyboard
BIAB wii begin playing those first four black bars and repeating them over and over.
Listening to that loop, you can write a song using the I,IV,V chord progression. you can speed it up, slow it down, play it in another key or another style. That I,IV,V chord progression is loaded and ready to go.
... and maybe then ... standard, basic, 12-bar blues:
1 1 1 1 4 4 1 1 5 4 1 1
Thousands of songs follow that chord progression.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
So much great help, and I will keep coming back to these posts and try to follow all the advice given, for the moment I`m trying to get to know BIAB, I`ve watched many videos and I`m just amazed at the amount of things it can do.
I said in a post I felt the backing track I was creating sounded a little sterile, I shouldn`t have used that word as it probably doesn`t discribe what I meant, I used 1 chord for each beat, as the song I`m working on is quite repetitive then so too is the backing track, would I be right in thinking, if I used a second chord in each beat it would give it more variation, maybe I`m trying to run before I can walk...
Probably. But there's nothing wrong with that as long as you stay motivated.
I've placed a screen shot of a different variation of the method I detailed above and if you copy the style and chords and setting like they appear on the screen shot, you'll have a song that has a lot more variation in the playback loop. It uses a BIAB MultiStyle that automatically changes the instruments that are playing and the drum styles creating a very different feel throughout the song.
If you don't happen to have the specific style displayed on the screenshot, open the StylePicker and in the search box near the top - enter a + and a list of the MultiStyles in your version of BIAB will display. Choose one and the MultiStyle will replicate the results of my Chord Chart.
There are some quite reasonable controller keyboards for just a few tens of dollars that would allow Dev to do as you suggest and would also allow all manner of playing around and, when ready, note entry into BiaB or whatever. A keyboard is a nicely logical layout.
Most 49-key controllers are fairly cheap and OK, so long as one doesn't expected weighted keys and/or hammer action. Touch Sensitive is a must, but most will be.
Someone else might comment if a guitar is a preferred option for playing, as it's quite different.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
Someone else might comment if a guitar is a preferred option for playing, as it's quite different.
I am a guitarist so this might surprise some people but I would start with a MIDI controller keyboard as Gordon and David suggested. Why? Well with a guitar one must build up calluses (this will take some time), coordinate the fretting hand with the pick holding hand, and somehow get the chords/leads into BiaB. With MIDI keyboard one can just presses a key(s) to hear a note(s) and to have it recorded into BiaB. If one gets a piano chord chart or book, google/bing piano chord chart and you will find a number of free charts like this
and one can play the chord using a MIDI controller keyboard and BiaB will recognize said chord, at least that is what I am lead to believe. If I am wrong please correct me ASAP.
I believe that using a MIDI keyboard controller would be must faster and easier than learning the guitar when getting chords and leads into BiaB
PS - I know there is a learning curve setting up a keyboard controller and using MIDI but that is still easier then getting a guitar part into BiaB IMHO, YMMV
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
One of the reasons a keyboard is so useful is that the notes of every scale are laid out neatly and logically over the entire keyboard, whether is a MIDI controller, synthesizer, piano, organ, piano accordion, church organ, harpsichord, whatever.
I spent a while a few years ago researching instruments "what's the easiest to play" and "what;s the hardest to play". One thing that stood out to me when doing that was the number of instruments that appeared on both lists. What I concluded from that is that generally the "easy" lists were about starting out and the "hard" lists were about becoming skillful.
Choose to play an instrument(s) that you love.
A MIDI keyboard is a superb device for understanding the notes and chords and structure, and also makes a good input device for BiaB etc.. Everyone who wants to create music should have one and learn their way around it, even if the instrument they actually play is something totally different.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
One of the reasons a keyboard is so useful is that the notes of every scale are laid out neatly and logically over the entire keyboard, whether is a MIDI controller, synthesizer, piano, organ, piano accordion, church organ, harpsichord, whatever.
I spent a while a few years ago researching instruments "what's the easiest to play" and "what;s the hardest to play". One thing that stood out to me when doing that was the number of instruments that appeared on both lists. What I concluded from that is that generally the "easy" lists were about starting out and the "hard" lists were about becoming skillful.
Choose to play an instrument(s) that you love.
A MIDI keyboard is a superb device for understanding the notes and chords and structure, and also makes a good input device for BiaB etc.. Everyone who wants to create music should have one and learn their way around it, even if the instrument they actually play is something totally different.
Thanks Gordon I`ve just bought a Akai LPK25 as I`d like to use midi in my songwriting as well, I`ll need to look-out some tutorials on how to incorporate it into BIAB. I didn`t know you could, I`ll also be able to try out some of the other tips posted here...
One approach that has been used with success involves creating the constructing the chord structure first. A visit to the web site "chordie.com" links to thousands of chord and lyric combinations of most of your favorite songs. Note the structure of Band in a Box supports four bar lines. That's four bars of four beats per bar in 4/4 or three beats per line in 3/4. In addition, typically, verse lyrics are twelve bars to the verse, eight or twelve bars per chorus. First, build the frame. Then add the body -- the sides and the roof.
You might look into the concept of "chord progression" while getting started. Typically, the changes follow a 1-4-5 progression. In key of C, the one is C, four is F, five is G.
Typical eight bar verse, Amazing Grace, John Newton, 1620 Line One A (c) ma-zing (c) grace, how (f) sweet the (c) sound, That Line Two (c) saved a (c) wretch like (g) mee- (g) -ee.
One approach that has been used with success involves creating the constructing the chord structure first. A visit to the web site "chordie.com" links to thousands of chord and lyric combinations of most of your favorite songs. Note the structure of Band in a Box supports four bar lines. That's four bars of four beats per bar in 4/4 or three beats per line in 3/4. In addition, typically, verse lyrics are twelve bars to the verse, eight or twelve bars per chorus. First, build the frame. Then add the body -- the sides and the roof.
You might look into the concept of "chord progression" while getting started. Typically, the changes follow a 1-4-5 progression. In key of C, the one is C, four is F, five is G.
Typical eight bar verse, Amazing Grace, John Newton, 1620 Line One A (c) ma-zing (c) grace, how (f) sweet the (c) sound, That Line Two (c) saved a (c) wretch like (g) mee- (g) -ee.
Thanks edshaw, I can see how this can be very helpful when putting together a song, there really is a lot of help out there.
Just looking at the posts here, I cant help notice there are so many different ways to go about making a backing track, so its probably about finding the one that suits you best!!
Sure thing, dev. Hey, find a handful of your favorite songs on Chordie.com and chart them out in Band in a Box. I'd be willing to bet more than a few of the BB experts and innovators have done that. Experiment. The basic elements are chords and rhythm styles.
Sure thing, dev. Hey, find a handful of your favorite songs on Chordie.com and chart them out in Band in a Box. I'd be willing to bet more than a few of the BB experts and innovators have done that. Experiment. The basic elements are chords and rhythm styles.
And I thought I was the only one around here with sticky fingers. I keep telling myself, "There's really nothing new under the Sun." Seriously, though, dev posted:
"I said in a post I felt the backing track I was creating sounded a little sterile, I shouldn`t have used that word as it probably doesn`t discribe what I meant, I used 1 chord for each beat, as the song I`m working on is quite repetitive then so too is the backing track, would I be right in thinking, if I used a second chord in each beat it would give it more variation, maybe I`m trying to run before I can walk..."
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