PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic When is the last time you have been to a open mic/blues jam?

The pandemic has had a severe impact on almost all public gatherings. Open mics are no exception.

I assume this downward trend started to happen way before the pandemic. I also believe these live musical gatherings happen very differently depending on the city and the local culture.

For many years, "open mics" tended to be pretty restrictive depending on the venue. You could only play "certain" styles of music. Hardcore traditional blues in Houston, Texas, for example. The exception to that was The Baked Potato in LA. That place attracted many professional players so it was possible to play almost anything.

Not too long ago, I played here in Miami...it was OK...nothing to write about. I happened to be in South Carolina last week and played a couple of songs in a small venue. That was fun.

There are many reasons to go to an open mic. We used to go to meet other musicians and also be seen. The experiences ran the gamut from a train wreck to super engaging. It also used to be where new musicians could experience being on stage for the first time. If they were lucky, people were supportive of that.

I also assume the general polarization happening in this country has a negative effect on live music venues of all types.

Billy

I don't recall ever being on an open mic stage. Aside from a few contest type events which I guess are kinda like open mic.... I've been on a few songwriter night events here and there which were also kinda like... hey, what have you got for the crowd kinda things..... and one of the NSAI meetings was hosted for a time at a music store which coincidentally held an open mic in the big room at the same time as our meeting....

But I don't even know if such things are common around here in the bigger cities. The plandemic ruined a whole lot of things that will probably never be the same again....sadly.

I've never participated in one, but we have a couple of jazz clubs around town that are open mic and allow for jam sessions, and they are pretty cozy and almost everyone that plays is exceptionally good. It's been a long time since I've attended one, maybe I should soon!

I had a pretty good look around the internet at the cities I have played in. Only some of the places still exist.

The Big Easy and Dan Electros Guitar Bar in Houston. These two are blues only and if you can really play the blues they are great and have been around for many years.

The Baked Potato in Studio City (LA) is world famous and a not to be missed place if you are ever there. There are three or four other places I have been to there that still exist. BB Kings place...

Dallas Texas has a large number of places and three of four have been around a long time. House Of Blues, Downtown Cowtown at The Isis

Chicago, Kingston Mines, Buddy Guy's Legends, just to name a few I have played at.

Tucson, Chicago Bar, and some new places with people I have played with in the past.

Memphis, Trippy

There are some places in the middle of nowhere that still exist. Places to play "Red Dirt" music in North Texas

I have played at a jam in New York City but I don't remember where. I do remember it was filled with first-class musicians who were not very tolerant of people who did not play well.

So...jam sessions/blues jams/open mics are open for business and provide most likely easy access to playing live in any city and many small towns. The pandemic has closed many venues but new ones look like they are opening.

The good ones have paid house bands that have the skill to deal with running a jam. It is advisable to take a good look at what is going on before putting your name on the signup sheet because some are so poorly run you will not have fun. It is also fun to go to these places with other people you have played with before or know how well they play. Much better chance of things sounding good.

Billy

Every Saturday the local music shop sets up a Pa outside the store and anybody can jam. I love it and feel like I have improved as a result.

I think the key is to have about three people who can lead simple songs…. Not just let people fiddle around endlessly with formless chord progressions and “snippets” of songs. Also try and gently discourage people from showing off with complex songs that nobody else can follow along.

I also go to several other more structured open mics. These tend to be “prepare a few songs, arrive put your name down and play those songs”. I sometimes invite other musicians in the audience to join me on my set but always understand that I am responsible for “leading” the song.

It is always interesting and I always feel like I am learning something.

I have never and will never give a place music for free. I they want music on some given night, they should hire a band and pay them. The band in question would likely rather be working and making a living than sitting at home NOT making a living.

Your lowest price soon becomes your highest price. If you'll play for free, why should anybody ever pay you?

Eddie. I understand your point of view but for me, financially, I don’t need to be paid. So I do it because I love it and if I didn’t (because of the payment story) I would be losing out on the joy and the learning and the fellowship. Proverbially, cutting my nose off to spite my face. I do see that everyone‘ a situations are different though, and everyone must do what’s right for them without harsh judgement.

While I tend to agree about not playing for free.... I consider that to be a full gig... you don't want to provide an entire evening's entertainment for free. I have played (with a band) at a few places that only offered the take from the door.... and that was actually worth doing. It was a college town and there was nothing else available so the venue tended to be fairly packed at $3/head. I've played my share of joints where I got handed $5 for the night..... didn't even cover gas when gas was under a buck a gallon.

I also know of a place called the bluebird in Nashville which I believe is a "play for free" place.... but I believe it's also a place where songwriters congregate, and music professionals and publishers also tend to hang out looking for the up and coming writers and talent in town. I'd play there (for free) to get my better songs in front of an audience and the music professionals who can put it together and make it happen. Absolutely.

I agree with Eddie on this. Although playing music was my avocation I ran my wedding band as a business, i.e. no freebees. We actually were booked more than we wanted to be and toward the end we did turn down gigs so playing out in an open jam place was out of the question for me. Plus some area musicians called me out for"selling out"! I laughed all the way to the bank!

Mario and Eddie,

So neither of you have ever set-in to play a song with a band or bunch of musicians that's just pickin'? You only play with your band at paid gigs. Really, 'cause that's how it's coming across.

Of course I have. But never at an open mic/jam night, always at either my or another musicians house/studio. I only played out for money. I am and will not fault those who play at open mic/jams it was just not my thing.

Jim, it's more that I am never in a position to do that. Other than playing full gigs, over the last 20 years I have not been in a bar other than to see a songwriter perform in a situation that NOBODY is invited to the stage. To topic, the last time I was on a stage that wasn't a paying gig situation was at a benefit in 2015 when there was a post holiday jam night that was a benefit for the local food bank and my band of the time hosted. I may have been on stage for ONE song that was not my band playing because it needed some keyboards and I was the only keyboard player in the place. I don't "hang around" bars looking for the recognition of "Hey let's see if Eastside Eddie will come up and do a few." Those jam night situations where I live are typically just that: Attention whores who don't play in a band and want to get their 7-8 minutes of fame playing the 2 songs they actually know so their friends can tell them how great they are. And those 2 songs are Crazy Train and Gimme Three Steps about 80% of the time.

One exception was in 1991. The band I was in back them wanted to play this room that wouldn't even give us the right time if we asked for it. 4 of us from the 5 piece band went to a karaoke night at that place and got up to do "You've Lost The Lovin' Feeling", in just our regular clothes. The guy running the show (Joey Gentile - an old friend) then said "Hey let's get those singing fools back up for one more. Okay?" There was loud applause. This time we went up with our satin band jackets that said "Cruisin'" on the back and did "If You Don't Know Me By Now". In IMPECCIBLE 4 part harmony. Joey used to make cassettes to give to the performers, and he recorded us doing that song. We told him to give it away and then stood by and watched 2 girls GET INTO A FIST FIGHT over who would get that tape. They broke up the fight, Joey made another copy of the tape, and the owner booked us for 6 shows, 2 weeks apart. Now THAT we did for free, but that was an investment, not a plea for attention.

Bottom line (standard disclaimer "IN MY EYES AND MY OPINION) music is NOT fun. Music is hard work. I have now invested 66 of my 71 years into music, and much like I. M. Pei will not design a building for fun (he did the Louvre Pyramid, the Rock HOF and MANY others you'd know), I don't give my craft to people so they can make money selling beer while I work for free. To this day I never say I "play" music. I perform music, I work in the music business, I work in the entertainment business. I don't PLAY anything. But also remember I am a huge music snob and a finicky SOB who experiments with silly things like mic placement on a guitar amp and using cardboard circles to block different sections of a speaker so the mic only hears one part of it. I had a guitar friend in here years ago who looked at me like I was crazy because I made him do so many takes of a solo as I moved all 4 mics around to be in different places relative to the amp, and the moved the amp around facing to the side, facing away... He must have played that 8 bar solo 75 times. Somehow we are still friends. Maybe because I bought him wings afterward. LOL!!! But every take had slightly different room acoustics and decay times that were so subtle that maybe nobody but me could tell, but I drew a room sketch of every take to show where the amp was and where the mics were. That's just how I am. Anybody surprised I can't keep people in a band? LOL!

EDIT to add that the "Life Is Hard" thing was about the camaraderie. Just about everybody who can tolerate my attitude was involved in that day. And we all wanted to do that as a collaborative promotional video for the software as a matter of thanks to PG for their product. It was SO hard to keep a straight face with that hokey Bob Dylan impersonation... LOL!!

You may actually find THIS part funny. Have you ever seen the videos in music stores where the staging is such that the main actor picks up a guitar and starts playing the intro that Zep stole from Spirit and turned it into Stairway and all the employees come running to grab the neck and say "Uh uh. No Stairway."

One of the running gags at open mic nights (the kind that are for anybody, not just songwriters) is that for some reason everybody thinks they should play Turn The Page. There is NOTHING more horrendously empty that a single note plinking acoustic guitar solo with no rhythm behind it. So one night a few years ago I got a call from a friend named Anita who was going to a songwriter night that also held a few early slots open for what normal mic nights are like. She said "Bring that magic iPad of your with your TV tracks and do 3 songs." So I went and signed in for the 9:20 slot, right after her. The guy running the show was a well known host of such events so we all knew him. I asked him how many of the early slots he had open for the copy song people and he told me 3. So 8, 8:20 and 8:40 were copy people. Anita would play at 9, me at 9:20. I asked "Will you be enforcing the 'No Turn The Page' rule?" He just laughed. ALL THREE of the people in those first slots did that insipid song. It was fine when Seger did it in the 80s, but that was Seger, not Joe who works at the auto parts store and then goes from open mic to open mic all night every night with his Walmart guitar without a case AND has to borrow a cord. And just as an added bonus, usually none of them can sing. And when I went up, I said "Okay! Now 3 original songs. NO Turn The Page" and got a huge laugh and won the crowd before I played a note. I explained that they'd hear a whole band despite it being just me on stage and nobody cared.

And those people are why I think open mic night sucks, because there are 20 of those to every one where there is actually even one good player there. Songwriter nights I might go to, but not the open mic night medley of Turn The Page. As you all know from my many posts over the decade, songwriting is what impresses me, not playing. I'd rather hear an hour of mediocre original music than 3 sets of perfectly performed copy music.

And again, read the disclaimer from the previous post. This is just how I see it, not an attempt to make you agree with me. I have so many really BAD CDs here that I bought at a songwriter night because at least they tried to write. I have stood and heard the slow death of silence enough times to empathize. Funny thing is that I have 5 songs done as TV tracks (with no lead vocal) and when I went to those things fairly often I would pick 3 from those 5 for my set, ALWAYS including "The One That Got Away". And from place to place, the same 3 song set would get anything ranging from a polite "Well, at least you tried" golf clap to very enthusiastic "Oh yeah! That was really good." I would guess I sold less than 10 CDs over a year or so of going to those things so the songs must not be THAT good. Isn't it flattering though when based on hearing just 3 songs someone wants to buy the CD?

I do believe that most open mic nights are to get some live entertainment at no cost. Same as the bar that says you should play to get some exposure, but no money. There are plenty of bands out there looking for jobs and these open mic deals take some of them away in my opinion. Now would that bar hire a band if nobody would play the open mic? I have no idea. But Free is not the best price. Now if you like to jam and learn etc. Get together with some like-minded people and do just that. If you want to sit in with a jazz combo for the experience of it, that is ok too, they are getting paid and you are learning most likely. But You are either a professional or an amateur. There is no in between.

Just my opinion of course and no remarks are directed at anyone but the topic.

{edit} - I have to correct myself as I have played a couple of free gigs at our local VA hospital.

My goodness Eddie! That is some rant… I am forever glad that for me Music is “fun”. And hope it will stay that way. If I happen to make some money out of it then that is great but if not that is also fine.

If my YouTube channel goes away then that is one less thing to worry about. My attitude is “if I’m not having fun then I’m doing it wrong”.

I do understand that for some people music is not fun but is work. I tend to avoid those people in real life as everything ends up being transactional.

GEEZE Louise,
some folk play for the fun of it, jam for the joy of it and collaborate for the human interaction of it.

I was a teacher for 40 years and a very strong unionist but that didn't stop me from helping a community member to be able to read the newspaper with some comprehension, or provide resources for a family that couldn't afford them.

Open Mic night wouldn't exists if they didn't provide a solution to a problem.

I agree with play for pay as opposed to pay to play and I recognize that most band venues have succumbed to karaoke or, worse, someone getting paid to play records but there's a place for pubs n clubs that provide an opportunity for the shy, inexperienced, uncertain, unconnected and not particularly talented, amongst others, to perform and even play along.

You know, playing rugby league is hard work but fun. Lots of things are big on effort, prep and personal expenses but fun.
I know, that defines "amateur" BUT most people who play instruments ARE AMATEURS. Seems some folk need to kick off their horse shoes and try on someone else's slippers in reality of metaphorically, if for just a bit. Empathy? Respect? Understanding? Anyone?

Water into wine is one thing but wine into whine is another animal entirely.
Many of the posts above remind me that doing what you love for a living make what you love a business and, in the end, not so loveable.

What is the user showcase if not an online open mic/show n tell?

I've been to a few open-mic nights, though not since Covid started. They're running again, but I have yet to return.

For sure most venues want to get customers through the doors and earn some money from the occasion, but I wonder (here in the UK, anyway) how many see it as free musical entertainment and how many see is as just as a class of customer they can attract. Most venues here seem to be once a month at most. The quality of performance is distinctly mixed. They're certainly an opportunity for newcomers to gain stage experience and exposure.

The one I was going to is a social club ... no food and relatively low drinks prices.

It's as if you knew me in 1994 when I left the entertainment world and started to work in IT. Honestly. You hit it squarely on the head. When music became a "job", I had a chat with myself and said "If you have to work a job, you may as well work a job that pays a decent, consistent living wage." I gave my band notice the next day that I was leaving the music world and just moved on.

See, music (to me) is fun when you are SO good at what you do that your band is just beating the crap out of the other bands in your area that play similar content. We were a Motown band, and we were so good that when people had a bigger scale event, we were the first call band. Our starting price for weddings was $3000 (in 1992) for a short dinner set and non-stop 100 minutes of dancing music. We were THAT band. THAT was when it was fun.

Then the shifting paradigm that was DJs happened. A DJ would do a wedding for $600-650. We stopped getting those calls for weddings and corporate events, so we had to work more in bars to make a living. I guess you could say that the rest of the racing rats caught up with us. We once did 17 weddings in one summer. The very next year we did 2. So we found ourselves doing things like doing doubleheaders every Friday, Saturday and Sunday. We were doing 9 gigs a week, some of them AWFUL, low paying gigs we did JUST to earn some money rather stay home and earn nothing. When you start spending more time loading, driving, unloading, setting up, tearing down, loading, driving home, and unloading (lather rinse repeat) than performing, it's time to start thinking about other, less taxing, lines of work. It became a hard, physical job. I bailed.

That being said, it was my choice to play with a full 14 space rack, 3 keyboards and stereo Yamaha speakers. Had I moved only an acoustic guitar or been a singer who moved nothing I might have continued.

Simply stated, the thing that made it fun (as defined above), the huge success we had for about an 18 month run, ended. Then it was a job. I was 42 and the fun was over. IT paid me more for a straight 40 hour week and exercised a different part of my brain. I went back to college and got another degree in IT (Computer Science) and became a server side technician, worked 17 years in that field and retired at 62.



Very apt description, but open to interpretation. You could also see it quite similar to teenaged boys measuring in the shower after gym class. Kind of like this guy. (This one will be lost on people not in America because it's from MadTV, an American TV show that I don't think was ever worldwide.)



Between the gear flexers, the name droppers and the VST collectors who are conspicuously absent in the user showcase, I don't know what it is anymore. Between that and the end of year glut of last minute uploads from people who want to post for volume of posts and try to win a free copy of the next release... (I have money. I'll buy mine.) That comment may seem quite "pot calling the kettle black" in that I rarely post a song anymore (because I really don't write much these days) but that's my observation. You've been here for a while Ray. You have seen that late-year push for visibility too. I don't post because my skills are GONE and I can't play worth a snap anymore. I can't even explain the push (shove?) I had to give myself to do "By The River" a few months ago. And that only took a half a day to actually program and sing.

Plus factor in how arrogant and smug I am... LOL!!

One thing I should say to qualify my perspective is that when I speak about the jam night heroes I speak about those who ONLY show up at jam night to play the only songs they know but don't belong to a band that actually works in music. People who are in the music business and just go out for fun rather than stay home, well, have at it. This is where the smug arrogance in me says "Music deserves respect. Don't dabble in something so sacred as music. Music to me is as sac red as religion is to others. You either believe or your don't believe. Similar in concept, do music 100% or don't desecrate it. Give music your every breath, your every thought, and your every heartbeat." I myself am now a "dabbler" and it makes me unhappy to be that. One of my best friends is a guy who owns 6 guitars and can only play the intro to Smoke On The Water. I can't tell you how much that irritates me because I see that as a mockery of something I hold in such high esteem, to almost dangerous levels. Like the jam night heroes.

I am also well aware that I am a strange little bird...

I have been invited to sit in with/get on stage with, perform with, all for free, BB King, Buddy Guy, Larry Carlton, Eddie "Cleanhead" Venson, Clarance "Gatemouth" Brown, and a hundred other lesser-known friends, to name a few.

Buddy Guy, Larry Carlton, and Gatemouth Brown have set in with my band FOR FREE, to name a few.

Well, I guess if you are such a fantastic player of stratospheric proportions and so important that you can demand that the likes of BB King should be humbled and more than willing to pay you to get on stage with him then there is little reason to have any use for a lowly open mic.

My bass player drove her car to Arizona from Houston, Texas, FOR FREE to get to play with other people we like.

We have gotten well-paying corporate gigs from people seeing us at open mics.

The idea that no one is getting paid at an open mic is not always accurate. Many bands get paid to host open mic nights and have done that for years. Many people play at open mics because it is a fun entertaining thing to do that does not cost them anything other than the price of a couple of beers that they were going to buy anyway.

Many of us like music well enough that money is a very secondary issue. The idea that hard cash is the only acceptable reason for ever playing music is a pretty limited view at best and will most likely be one of the reasons that limit the money that you make.

Billy

As a jazz trumpet player, one of the few things in music I have never done is a blues jam.

Where would music be without you, Billy? And why did you turn down The Beatles when they called you to replace George? Too busy jamming with Django Reinhart, Muddy Waters and T Bone Walker? Meeting Robert Johnson at The Crosswords to write that 40th song for him? I DO appreciate you collaborating on THIS piece though...



SMDH...

Just so you know.... I saw smiles on the faces of everyone who was at the Herbfest jam, meet and greet, we're making a song and video extravaganza for the song called Life is Hard.... yup, including Eddie.

Even Pat's daughter managed to smile at least once. On second thought.... maybe she was laughing at us....

I think I get what Eddie and Mario mean. Why play a venue for free if the venue makes money off the music I play?

Here is a guy you could go set in with at one of their open mics in NYC. They play mostly Jazz but they can play blues.

The HARLEM JAZZ SESSION is a weekly concert & jam session hosted by 3x Grammy and Latin Grammy winning saxophonist/composer, Peter Brainin, featuring the hottest and most innovative musicians from around the world and around the corner!
Weekly roster includes all star musicians: Paul Bollenback, Cecilia Coleman, Gary Versace, Mike Karn, Anthony Pinciotti and MORE!

Peter Brainin is a Grammy and Latin Grammy winning saxophonist, composer and educator who has toured internationally with Mongo Santamaría, Valery Ponomorev, Hilton Ruiz, Bebo Valdez, Chico O’Farrill, Bobby Sanabria, Arturo O’Farrill & the Afro Latin Jazz Orchestra (with whom he’s featured on 2 Grammy winning CD’s), Joris Teepe, Willie Colon & Legal Alien, Samuel Torres, the Mambo Legends Orchestra and John DiMartino as well as with his own quartet and as a guest artist and clinician. In the U.S. he has performed and/or recorded with Wynton Marsalis, Benny Golson, Randy Weston, Harold Mabern, Idris Muhammad, Jerry Gonzalez, Paquito D’Rivera, Israel “Cachao” López, Sheila E., Eddie Palmieri and many other Jazz and Latin Jazz legends. Peter has appeared on over 200 albums including his own as co-leader with Steve Johns (which also feature contributions by Conrad Herwig, George Cables and Ben Monder) and with the quartet Native Soul. A native of the Bronx, he twice received the BRIO (Bronx Recognizes its Own) award for music composition from Bronx Council on the Arts.

Room 623 - Harlem’s Speakeasy

271 W. 119th St.

(btwn Frederick Douglass & St. Nick)

212. 589. 8979

Full calendar, tix & livestream: Room623.com

I would assume you may know some of these guys.

A video of a real open mic/jam session

https://youtu.be/0X-i0RSrq9s

Billy

EDIT: Bebo Valdez died back some time ago. He was a very famous Jazz and Blues piano player from Cuba. He was well known and liked here in Miami. I never knew him but was introduced to his music through a music teacher here in Miami.

If I lived in NYC, I would make it a point to check out this venue just to watch these people.

I'm gonna go with the "laughing"...

Too funny Eddie...lol

But, you need to get the facts straight. Robert only did 29 songs so I would have written the 30th. Well...I would have but we were too involved in the 99's.

I was too busy when Paul called trying to keep from getting shot down while flying with Major Tom.

That was some other guy with my last name because I never co-wrote anything with Mozart. I was still very busy designing another yacht after that first job with Moses.

You forgot to mention the gold records. I am still pretty unhappy about all that. They turned out to be just goal plated. What a rip! Even Riley commented on what a revolting development that was. Then, what does a guy like Jackie Gleason know...lol

You probably need to be pretty old to get the Riley joke...oh well

Billy

Voice to text. It also heard "Crosswords" instead of "Crossroads".

Perhaps that should be on the bucket list Matt.

Many "religious" people only dabble in religion and to those who lean toward the "sacred" tend to be overzealous, extremist or are using it for other purposes.

Most people who play an instrument only dabble: from kids n recorder &/or choir in primary/elementary school to "blues" guitar lawyers.

What's left of the "industry" can only support X number of players and even in it's prime the X was simply bigger, not universal.

Putting aside the brain development & learning assistance taking up an instrument provides, there's an huge music education industry for folk who start out wanting to be a star, or an adept, but end up, very happily, being dabblers.

The User Showcase is many things to many people...it's often a dumping zone for click collectors, often a "listen to me but I'll not listen to you" platform and often it's a look what I did, give me a pat on the back zone. I'm selfish, I use it for the ears of several members & the occasional collaboration with some of them. I post songs in development looking for better ears and different perspectives as I work on them. I'm happy with critical analysis of my stuff though I know many aren't interested in that sort of help. Afterward I'll post a finished song &, probably, a video to demonstrate the result of the process.

I'm an old retired person and I write/play/record because it meets a need, fills a hole and I enjoy it.
I don't jam because I don't think I play well enough and despite being a teacher for 40 years, I'm quite shy.I "interact" via the internet...it's what I have.

There are some really kind musicians in the world. Many are more than happy to share their love of music with other people. They will do their very best to bring you on stage and make you a part of the crew. They will play to whatever level of skill you have. That certainly does not happen at every "jam session," but it does happen often.

I once had a friend who graduated from North Texas University in music. He could play anything. He was super nervous about playing in a jam. I hope I influenced him to overcome his fear of public performance.

There are as many reasons to go to a jam session as there are musicians. No matter the reason, it can be a little scary to be on stage in public. Public speaking and playing music, both take some getting used to.

We now live in a world where we can stand behind an avatar and be almost completely isolated from the real world—living our lives vicariously through TV and the internet. There is nothing wrong with that, giving many people a place to belong. Many, if not most young people seem to prefer it that way.

The need for acceptance is one of the most driving human motivations that exist. That is true for the first grader at show and tell to one of us posting a song on a forum. The fear of not being accepted prevents many people from playing in front of anyone. One of the cool things about this forum is anyone can create a song using BIAB without any ability to play any instrument.

The "blues jam" thing is sort of a universal meeting place where everyone more or less knows what to expect. It will likely be twelve bars in a more or less standard format. It works as well in Japan as it does in Mississippi. No need to speak the language of the country because the language of music is universal.

Perhaps living alone connected only by Zoom is the way of the future. Working from home is getting more common. Perhaps automation will remove the need for live people at the food market. Machines and software will drive the cars. Robotic dogs for pets. Software that makes the song for you just by telling it what you would like to hear. If that is the future I am glad I am getting old and will not be around to have to deal with it.

At least it is not like that yet. People are kind and interact with me every day. Jams still exist and the people there at least put up with my amateur guitar playing!

Billy