Interesting, particularly for me where he's explicit about the conventions that we have, like C9 including the flat 7th, and the typical behaviour of omitting notes from complex chords. It's no surprise that people can find this complicated.
Fortunately in much popular music one doesn't see those more complex chords so often. Fortunately in jazz, normally you can choose to voice them in your own way, anyway. :-)
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
Fortunately in jazz, normally you can choose to voice them in your own way, anyway. :-)
Well, I tend to agree. One of the first laws that great jazz players use is to 'throw away the rule book' Great players introduce inversions and chord structures that others can only dream about. To add to that, there are also probably more listeners who can't even hear the integrated brilliance.
Nevertheless, David provides some very valuable insights. Frankly, I'm sure you agree with me that I this is excellent reference material.
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
I watched it and was pleased to feel that "...heck I know all that", but than I saw issues with the "notation window" which I felt were simply mistakes.... But what do I know?
This was fun, although you could probably follow at this speed only if you already knew this material.
I note there was very little on Sus chords such as 9sus or 13sus, and no mention of the elusive Sus2 which I think is actually correct to omit. In BIAB, a 2 chord, an add2 chord, and an add9 chord are all the same.
One area that perhaps deserved just a few more seconds is the Alt chord. While everything said here is true, it should be stressed that the Alt chord can be one of several combinations with the dominant seventh, remove the perfect fifth, and then add a sharped or flatted five AND/OR sharped or flatted ninth.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Nevertheless, David provides some very valuable insights. Frankly, I'm sure you agree with me that I this is excellent reference material.
Totally! I think this video is excellent.
I certainly hadn't meant or intended to imply any criticism. Far from it. I think I've found every one of his videos that I've seen, to be at the very least informative, often very useful. Yes, I knew most or all of this one, but even then it's nice to be more confident that I'm not confused about chord notations and it should most certainly be useful for anyone unsure about them.
Lots of us would struggle to play a full 13 chord. On guitar I imagine it's impossible as a pure chord, though an arpeggio or mixture would work. I still struggle on Piano to get anything like that many notes in the right place and time.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
All the standard stuff was, well, standard. When he got into 13th chords omit x I found that to be less than logical. If you want me to play that then give me the sheet music. Can you imagine someone saying "hey, play a F13b5#9 and omit the 3rd...lol Now on those directions I am with Eddie...you got to pay me...lol
I am with Matt, this would be hard to follow if you did not know most of it. Some things I rarely see like C- to indicate C minor.
Sort of an interesting video, the arcane, the mundane, and the insane all in one video...lol
Good stuff Trev!
Billy
New location, new environment, new music coming soon
Seize the moo-ment If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo
It is great for me, so he's explicit about the conventions that we have
Agree. I think the issue is that some people found the later parts too complicated, but then probably most people don't use 9 chords and beyond, so can just ignore them; similarly that last "chord" ... probably notate it, or maybe define it as a polychord.
Mostly I think, chords from 9 up are used in notating jazz leadsheets and the likely fingering for keyboards are a root-5-root or root-5-7 in the left hand and the the highest note and notes in chord below it the right hand.
I know not how a guitarist handles them.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
We can always depend on Audio Track for sharing useful and thought-provoking videos. Most of this one is way above my pay grade. But the slash chords rang a bell.
A couple years ago in the church band, they would say "make sure you play the note after the slash". At first, my instincts were to play the note before the slash; it sounded more melodic, but over time what they were saying made more sense. We had 2 keyboard players, 2 guitarists, a drummer, 2 or more vocalists and me on bass. So if it was C/G most everyone else seemed to be playing a C chord and they were depending on me to establish the bottom and hit that low G . . . it finally clicked when I noticed that this G was quite often part of a scale run that I would be playing such as E-F-G or A-G-F or similar.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2024 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
Slash chords tend to have one or two purposes, though there's much overlap between them. Walking bass as you describe or indicating a chord inversion.
Quite often it's for both simultaneously.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
For anyone who has difficulty dealing with complex chords, one easy way to understand a 9, 11, or 13 when you see it is to subtract 7. That will give you the correct pitch one octave lower.
Then realize that these are cumulative, so a 9th chord includes a 7th, an 11th chord includes a 9th and 7th (though sometimes one is dropped out) and a 13th chord includes the 7th and 9th and can include the 11th if tasteful.
Which 7th or 9th it is, must be indicated if it isn't a dominant (minor) 7th or a natural 9th.
Finally, as noted before, some notes will be dropped by most players, particularly guitarists who don't have enough strings or fingers to sound every possible note in the chord.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
It is great for me, so he's explicit about the conventions that we have
Agree. I think the issue is that some people found the later parts too complicated, but then probably most people don't use 9 chords and beyond, so can just ignore them; similarly that last "chord" ... probably notate it, or maybe define it as a polychord.
Mostly I think, chords from 9 up are used in notating jazz leadsheets and the likely fingering for keyboards are a root-5-root or root-5-7 in the left hand and the the highest note and notes in chord below it the right hand.
I know not how a guitarist handles them.
Actually 9th and 13th chords are used quite frequently in blues songs. A 13th chord is used when going from the I to the IV chords, i.e. A to D. One option for a guitar fingering of a 13th chord is from the low string to the high string as follows:
low E string = 1 (tonic) A string = mute D string = 7th G string = 3rd B string = 13th high E string = 9th
One could technically call that a 9(13) chord. Also note that the high E string (9th) is optional. Without it the chord would be just a 13th, that is in the guitar world. Also those notes listed above could be called a number of chords like GMaj9(#11), F#m (b9add11), B7sus2(b13), etc. When one doesn't play all of the notes in a chord those notes played can/will be in other chords. Keyboardist JonD and I had many discussions on what to call the chord that I am fingering.
A guitarist can't play all of the note is those "jazz" chords. We can play whatever chord notes there are as long as they do not conflict with the melody.
I hope this helps.
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Slash chords tend to have one or two purposes, though there's much overlap between them. Walking bass as you describe or indicating a chord inversion.
Quite often it's for both simultaneously.
Thanks Gordon, that inspired me to do a search and I learned that the position of the notes in a chord can change the mood. Of course, as a novice bass player, I just play one note at a time. Actually, someone once told me that we bass players do play chords, just not simultaneously. We break them apart into arpeggios and root-5th rhythmic patterns.
"Chords aren’t always played in their root position, like a C major with the notes C E and G in this order. While remaining the same, the notes of the chord may change places for practical reasons that may relate to the instrument you play, to facilitate going from chord to chord, or for other aesthetic musical reasons in order to achieve a different harmonic feel. That said, a chord inversion is when the lowest note of the chord is not its root."
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2024 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
Of course, as a novice bass player, I just play one note at a time. Actually, someone once told me that we bass players do play chords, just not simultaneously. We break them apart into arpeggios and root-5th rhythmic patterns.
One good reason for that is that a full chord on the bass just sounds "muddy" ... a bit of a mess, unless it's played quite high.
What they call "power cords" or 5 chords comprise root and 5th, or root, 5th and a second root an octave higher, are popular, because they have a good strong feel without getting too messy. Actually playing just the root as two notes an octave apart works well, too.
As you say, arpeggios are the other way to cover the chord, and you can often add in the 2nd or 6th (for major chords) or 2nd, 4th and 6th for minor chords. Probably the most important thing though was your earlier observation that the rest of the band are expecting the bass to hold the bass line strong and with the drummer. It's the foundation for everything else, so one doesn't mess with it too much.
I'm also a relative beginner, so on keys I usually stick with root or a power chord in the left hand and improvise with the right, except when I'm playing a set piece alone.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
Probably the most important thing though was your earlier observation that the rest of the band are expecting the bass to hold the bass line strong and with the drummer.
Yep. And at that time I could barely play an arpeggio but that didn't matter, they wanted me to lock with the drummer and play the root or bottom slash note.
This band was actually near-professional and they all had been playing together for over a decade. And here comes Johnny Comes Lately with no music background. The guy I replaced moved to 2nd guitar/banjo/mandolin. Needless to say, I learned a lot; listening skills, communication skills, and giving other voices in the band "room", especially the snare. The core person in the band was this 60 something piano player and mother of the band leader. She took me under her wing and I had to invest at least 20 hours/week at home learning the 6 songs for Sunday morning. Then 6 new songs for the following week and so on. It was hard work but a great experience. It took about 6 months for a repeat song to appear, then the repeats would flow in more rapidly. We had well over 200 hundred songs, any 6 would have to be learned within 1 week.
Another helper for me was to take the time to type up a clean, personalized chord sheet for each song capturing when I'm in, when I'm out, when to play big, and when to play small. Some of us used tablets but I preferred the old-fashioned 3-hole punched paper in a binder. We had 1 mid-week rehearsal with the high expectation that you showed up fully prepared. Then a quick run-thru before the service on Sunday. Then Monday morning you'd have 6 new songs in your inbox to learn.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2024 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
While we are discussing chords, a really nice two-note chord on bass guitar is a 10th, and this works especially well for a held chord. Both notes are played simultaneously, e.g. F and the A an octave above. The resonance can be quite interesting and used to deliver an excellent rich-sounding effect.
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