I listened to forum member, Sundance, +++ COVER +++ of Michael Jackson & the Jackson Five's song, "I Wanna' Be Where You Are". One of the things that struck me is how different the cover is from the original recording. That in itself is not new as there are many instances where a cover has taken a song in a new direction. One example is the original "Mother Nature's Son" by +++ The Beatles +++ versus a cover by +++ John Denver +++. It amazes me how someone can hear a song in a new and different way.
All of that is so I can get around to asking this question, "When you use Band-in-a-Box to produce a song can you maintain the song as you first envisioned it or does Band-in-a-Box influence the final production results?"
As a composer I don’t do covers, although I do sometimes do transcriptions for pay. BIAB absolutely always sends me in a different direction than I had envisioned, and I think that’s great!
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
I actually don't use BIAB much, but when I do, that's exactly what I use it for: to take me off in a different direction than I would go otherwise.
Byron Dickens
BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency.
I agree with the gentlemen above. Almost without exception, when I approach BiaB with a song idea in my head that I really want to create, that once I get going, I find myself "off the path" that I started on.
I suppose that could be viewed as lack of discipline(bad) or flexibility(good). Forced to choose, I'd say good.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2024 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
Jim, my answers to those two questions are yes and yes. Sometimes I know exactly what I want and what style to use to achieve it. But many times BiaB leads me down a different path. BiaB is great for learning and creating new genres. If I didn't have BiaB I wouldn't be doing half of the music that I am doing today.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
For me it's very easy to fall down the rabbit hole that is all things Band-in-a-Box and lose my original song arrangement or concept in the process. I can easily audition styles and RealTracks for hours! When I think a song is interesting enough to retain the original I'll generally take a couple steps that help me to keep on track.
One is to make a rough draft audio file. It might just be me humming, playing a guitar or singing but I catch what I can while the song is fresh on my mind.
Second is to make audio notes detailing what I want in each segment of a song.
Between the two if I get led too far astray I have audio to remind me of my original idea.
As I use mostly my own playing I have a fair idea of what I want to do and the prog doesn't dictate direction much. I use it occasionally to try a different style or flip between options I'd planned, (like the jazz n rock versions of the same song I recently posted). Mother Natures Son has few excellent covers - Denver's is a winner in the direction it takes the guitars but his vocal seems out of place. Nilsson's voice with Tipton's arrangement made it something different and interesting but "soft" as the mawkishness of McCartney seemed to appeal to Harry. It's part the iconic nature of the original and partly that it's a complex but not very exciting song...soporific even.
Using BIAB to create a cover can be problematic as it can, as shown, make things rather bland/generic unless care is taken. I did one cover earlier this year - my 1st - and I deliberately took it in a different, aggressive direction but the process began with a BIAB style in mind - though it was heavily altered with me adding bass, guitars and "vocal".
Last edited by rayc; 08/15/2211:15 PM.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
I would think the more tracks a user creates for a song project the less opportunity Band-in-a-Box has to take your vision in a new direction. For example I believe it would be difficult to go too far off track with user created keyboard, guitar and vocal tracks.
One of the nice things about Band-in-a-Box is you do not need to be a vocalist or musician to enjoy using it. But depending exclusively on Band-in-a-Box limits a user's ability to determine the outcome.
Some ways a non musician or vocalist user can personalize tracks is through editing MIDI, choosing a virtual instrument or applying loops. All of those choices go outside the Band-in-a-Box norm but are available for use in Band-in-a-Box.
It's always a chart smashing hit in my head..... now, If I can just get that to translate to the demo.
Actually, No. What I hear in my head for a given song always takes a different route when I select the style and start working on the song in BB. I can't say it's a lesser version because that's not true. It's just that it rarely ever turns out exactly like I was envisioning the song. Like I said, different doesn't mean it's not as good. It just means that it took a slightly different route in the audio world. And sometimes, it actually does turn out better than I was hearing it in my head. Those are the magical ones.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
It's always a chart smashing hit in my head..... now, If I can just get that to translate to the demo.
You're not using the right magic VST plugin.
Byron Dickens
BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency.
Man,some VST plugins ARE magic. I have a close to 1,000.
The one I would never give up is free and it's by Sonible and Focusrite, called "Balancer."
I use it on every mix on almost every track. It is extremely lightweight and non-intrusive but it will, among other things, make that BIAB acoustic, or piano, or cello sound exactly the way you want it to, or close, in half a second.
David, I watched the Focusrite vid for Balancer...interesting short cut thing. I've downloaded it to experiment...can't hurt to play with it can it? Thanks.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
… All of that is so I can get around to asking this question, "When you use Band-in-a-Box to produce a song can you maintain the song as you first envisioned it or does Band-in-a-Box influence the final production results?"
Yes.
It all depends what I’m going for.
BIAB 2023 Audiophile, 24/60 Core M2 Mac Studio Ultra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP Digital Performer 11, LogicPro Finale27.4, Dorico5, Encore5, SmartScorePro64, Notion6, Overture5
How do you maintain your first vision of a song project as you heard it in your head while not letting Band-in-a-Box not influence the final product? If I audition styles those styles influence me.
BUMMER, needs an activation code from a current Focusrite account. My Gen 1 Solo is out of date so no go.
Strange, my account for my Gen 1 Scarlet 8I6 worked fine.
I've always had trouble with mine - may just be me CeeBee. BUT it's now irrelevant as Sonible sent a key with the sign up confirmation so I can grab it and David was correct - free.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
When I do a cover I have a certain style in mind and BIAB is great for letting me flush that idea out. That's one of the things I like best about the product. So yes, BIAB does influence the production result. For example my latest cover is a soul song but I wanted to use a Bossa Nova Rhythm. BIAB was excellent in helping me work that out. When I did "Walk On BY' as a Disco Song BIAB Certainly influenced that outcome. So for me I would have to say that BIAB definitely influences the outcome based on Rhythm, key instruments that I use, etc..
BUMMER, needs an activation code from a current Focusrite account. My Gen 1 Solo is out of date so no go.
Strange, my account for my Gen 1 Scarlet 8I6 worked fine.
I've always had trouble with mine - may just be me CeeBee. BUT it's now irrelevant as Sonible sent a key with the sign up confirmation so I can grab it and David was correct - free.
Then again..my problems with FREE suppliers continues. The key isn't enough, nor an account...it required ONLINE authentication.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
How do you maintain your first vision of a song project as you heard it in your head while not letting Band-in-a-Box not influence the final product? If I audition styles those styles influence me.
Saying “Nope” a lot till I hear what I need. Having used BIAB for years, certainly helps.
If I don’t have anything specific in mind, then I let the Style selection process influence me.
Again, it all depends on the project.
BIAB 2023 Audiophile, 24/60 Core M2 Mac Studio Ultra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP Digital Performer 11, LogicPro Finale27.4, Dorico5, Encore5, SmartScorePro64, Notion6, Overture5
… Then again..my problems with FREE suppliers continues. The key isn't enough, nor an account...it required ONLINE authentication.
They want to market to you. That’s why they do it. Whether the trade-off is worth it or not is your decision.
I use a separate email account for that nonsense that I never check unless someone has just sent a verification email. Gotta keep the clutter down somehow.
BIAB 2023 Audiophile, 24/60 Core M2 Mac Studio Ultra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP Digital Performer 11, LogicPro Finale27.4, Dorico5, Encore5, SmartScorePro64, Notion6, Overture5
They want to market to you. That’s why they do it. Whether the trade-off is worth it or not is your decision. I use a separate email account for that nonsense that I never check unless someone has just sent a verification email. Gotta keep the clutter down somehow.
It's not just email authentication Mike, (I have a secondary account for that as do many folk): 1st use of the VST prompts to authenticate and it then attempts to go to their website to do so. I keep my recording set up off line after a few serious virus/malware wipe outs. Using an USB be shunt things to a web connect ed computer and back gives the added security of that device being scanned upon insertion. I have the VST installed, the email/sonible account/Focusrite account set up gave me the key but it requires that oe extra step. Not unlike SSL's regular free plug in bundle that requires a physical iLok dongle or iLok account AND internet activation. I don't "need" the software that requires that so don't go that extra step to be cookie crumbled.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Like Mike, if I know what I want I will search for it and say 'Nope' a lot. Not let BiaB influence me any more than can be avoided. I'll keep trying them, and if I don't find it, I'll find my next best option, whatever that may be. But if I do get something that is close, I'll try cutting & pasting the chunks I liked to create my own version of the RT when needed, to make it even more like what I heard in my head .. it's just another tool.
However there are indeed times when I'll let it be influential (inspiring) but I am using it with that intention. I guess I'm saying, for me, it's OK to do both, as long as that is your intent.
Make your sound your own! .. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Maybe when I was still new to BiaB, this would happen. But nowadays, when I sit down with it, I usually have a genre in mind, and within that genre I have a few favorite styles that I will try first. So this limits any tangents BiaB may send me out on.
These days, I use BiaB as a way to create tracks that I later import into Cakewalk, where all the final adjusting and mixing occurs. One of the most valuable things about BiaB I've found is that I can mix and match tracks from different styles, and sometimes even different genres, and come up with a Cakewalk file that is often outstanding.
Take, for example, a piece I'm working on now. It's a smooth jazz piece in A major. I used various tracks from BiaB that I imported into CW as MIDI files. I imported a complete converted to MIDI style as the base, then when I needed to add more instruments, I used BiaB's drag-drop feature. Very handy.
I started out with my base tracks as fairlana, because it has a good smooth jazz groove. But I wanted harp (47 Orchestral Strings, to be specific), too. I used the harp found in healing1 and myriad. But I didn't like the sound of them together, so I actually extracted parts of the myriad track and copied them to the healing1 track, then I got rid entirely of myriad. For keys, the kb part in fairlana is fairly sparse. I wanted to add some excitement there, so I added in just the keyboard part from the m_answr1 style. I wanted something to sort of fill the middle, but I didn't want strings, so I snagged the Voice Oohs from the choclet style. And finally to enhance the percussion section, I added the "drums" from the myriad style, which are mostly percussion instruments.
Then I got to balance and mix down everything so it didn't sound like a giant gob of mush, and I think I've succeeded. The result is a nice little 7 part piece that will work well for further expansion. Now all I have to do is write a melody for it. Which will probably take longer than it did to assemble the piece.
I agree with your thoughts that being familiar with what each style offers and relying on favorite styles are excellent ways to minimize the influence of Band-in-a-Box on your final song project.
However, PG Music offers new styles and RealTracks each year. While listening to the PG Music demo songs help build excitement, they also make me want to revisit completed song projects and add one or more new elements. Thus the influence is there.
Apparently I'm an oddball because I rarely "envision" a song.
Just as I strum my acoustic to find interesting chord progressions (which can end up in a ballad, a punk song, a pop song, a rock song or anything in between), I "strum" the keyboard in BIAB and play with different styles, realtracks, and arrangements until the song itself tells me what it wants to be.
The working title for my tribute song "Surviving your idols" was "Heavyrock in 3/4" and it's probably the softest ballad I've written in a long time
I've only produced about 20 songs total. When it comes to the groove, the tempo and the rhythm, I usually know what I'm after and search until I find it or until I find something as close as possible to what's playing in my mind, especially the drums and bass. On those few songs where I couldn't find RD's or wanted more control, I used EZ Drummer matched to a RT Bass that fit. What gets tricky are the pushes, and the shots, and the holds, and getting them to sound natural.
But once the foundation is there, I'm open to experimenting with any number of RT's. Now if the song depends upon a certain guitar riff or strumming pattern, I'll play and record that part. That's the case for a song I'm working on now. For that same song I found RD's and a RT Bass, but I'm not sure which RT guitars and keys will end up fitting the best, and so I've exported a couple dozen RT wav files for import to Studio One. I'm fairly sure I'll be able to edit those RT's to fit the various sections of the song.
What's not always planned though, and what BIAB really helps me with, are the instrumental breaks and sometimes the overall arrangement. On a bluegrass style track - which I never considered to be a bluegrass song when I wrote it, but those RT's fit, so I guess that's another instance of being influenced - but that song needed an instrumental and embellishment from a mandolin and lead acoustic guitar which were beyond my abilities. Hey, add a few bars and chords with solo RT's and you're done!
Having said all of that, I got up way too early, once I start to 'hear' the music coming out of the speakers which was previously only in my head or only ever a vocal and an acoustic guitar, I can't help but to start evaluating and possibly changing what I originally planned.
Apparently I'm an oddball because I rarely "envision" a song.
Just as I strum my acoustic to find interesting chord progressions (which can end up in a ballad, a punk song, a pop song, a rock song or anything in between), I "strum" the keyboard in BIAB and play with different styles, realtracks, and arrangements until the song itself tells me what it wants to be.
The working title for my tribute song "Surviving your idols" was "Heavyrock in 3/4" and it's probably the softest ballad I've written in a long time
This.
I suppose there are many ways to "be" a band. But most of the documentaries I've seen or articles I've read describing the way a band puts together a song is mimicked by the way I approach BIAB. In some ways, I'm the junior member, even when it's my song. I get the final say, but "the band" is more than welcome to influence the outcome. If I could play and arrange everything, I would. Unless I didn't want to.
Add updated printing options, enhanced tracks settings, smoother use of MGU and SGU (BB files) within PowerTracks, and more with the latest PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 update!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
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For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
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