As much as I have used MIDI in performance over the years, and my rig in the Motown band was AMAZING to see in action, when I sit at a computer I am a total MIDIot. I know some controller numbers, but I know nothing about SYSex, or the WHY and WHEREFORE of how plugins actually work. I get that you assign a synth to a track and control the synth from a controller, but the HOW it works behind the obvious "you transmit note numbers and velocities to the synth" levels there has to be more. I struggle to get VSTs to work and don't know why a VST and a VSTi are not the same thing. Like Cakewalk's TSS-1 as an example (in Real Band). I can copy it from one computer to another, search for it on the new computer, but unless Cakewalk is installed I can't detect it or load it into RB. And there's when the WHY questions start. It's a file names TSS-1.dll like every other VST instrument I have, yet I can't make it work without the laborious and space eating installation of Cakewalk on a just freshly wiped computer that now runs Win 11, a program that I don't really want and won't use. Yet I may have to install Cakewalk to use TSS-1, which is a really handy synth. I don't even know what to copy from the old computer (downstairs) to the new installation (upstairs).
I feel like I did when I was 4 and sat down at a piano for the first time. Totally new world to me and I am lost. I am sure there are things about MIDI that I don't even need to know, but I don't understand why VSTs don't just work. very video I find is DAW specific. How to use TSS-1 on FL Studio. How to use it on Reaper. How to use it on Cakewalk. I just want to use it on Real Band. (Wiping my computer to put Win 11 on it also erased Pro Tools but as little as I used it, I won't even reload it.)
All I want to do is keep my VSTs in a folder called "64bit VST" and have them work.
Last edited by eddie1261; 09/16/2203:59 AM.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023? 2. Send it to us.
Eddie, the TTS-1 is part of Cakewalk and can not be used with installing Cakewalk. This is the answer one gets when they ask the question can I use TTS-1 without installing Cakewalk "No, the plug-in is not available separately. It is a DXi so is not scanned by the VST scanner. It is registered during installation with the Windows program regsvr32.exe The default install path is C:Program FilesCakewalkShared DXiTTS-1"
DXis are old technology that must be registered with a host program, that is they can not be registered alone. VSTis can be registered alone without a host program.
VSTs are effect plug-ins like compressors, delays, reverbs, etc. VSTis are instrument plug-ins like horns, violins, drums, etc. Many times they are used incorrectly.
I hope this helps.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
If you have access to one of the older Cakewalk versions such as Music Creator, you can install those and get TTS.
Personally, I only use MIDI when I connect my keyboard to play a part, either piano or bass. I'm like you in that I never learned nor had a desire to learn all the controller stuff. One of my keyboards has touch sensitivity so I can get that by using that particular keyboard however, for most things, it really doesn't matter since I can control volumes with envelopes. I use mostly audio in the real tracks or live audio and rarely use MIDI unless as I previously mentioned.
I do know you have to tell your program where the VSTi TTS is located. And you need to scan the correct directory in Cake otherwise it will not find it.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
VStSynthFont64 has been my Defualt Synth in BIAB. Has been for years. The old version 3.201 was given away free with BIAB. I am betting the install is buried on your HD. There is a newer version $$ but I never reallly needed a reason to purchase it.
No you're not. MIDI was never intended for normal human beings to understand. It's a protocol for musical machines and it was originally devised when data rates were slow and latency was important. It still has a lot of baggage from those days. There is absolutely no shame in finding MIDI hard to understand. You are a very long way from alone!
I have a slightly different interpretation from Mario's about VST vs VSTi.
VST is any plugin that conforms to Steinberg's VST standards. It can be an instrument, an effect, an oscilloscope or similar, or possibly some combination of several.
VSTi is just a handy way to quickly say "this is a VST instrument".
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
I have no idea. I know GM is General MIDI but I think mine may only have Lieutenant MIDI.
Aren't the sounds in ANY synthesizer GM? As I sit here I have an M-Audio Keystation 61 MK3 connected to an MX8 MIDI thru box which is in turn outputted to 6 synth modules in a rack and that to another MX8 MIDI through box, which is in turn connected to my Nord Electro 4, the Ensoniq ESQ-1, the Ensoniq EPS 16+ and the Korg Krome. (And 2 drum machines.) All of that works well, as I have a 12 channel mixer and I can mix the synth sounds that way when playing live. It's the interfacing with VSTi that have thrown me for a loop. (See what I did there?)
BUT... I just finished installing Sonar 64 bit, and just before I replied to this thread I tested and can now use the TSS-1 in a Real Band song.
In other news, Windows 11 has not caused ONE problem as far as operation, and I have updated 5 of my 6 computers. Relearning some things, yeah. Like locating things that are not where they used to be, but I am fine with that. So with the guitars all hung by the chimney with care,
and the rack complete,
I am calling this room done. All that I need now is an idea to write something about! I should neaten up the wiring, which is an amazing feat of engineering in itself, but I can do that any time. I still need to do something about the lighting in here, but that will have to wait for a while as I pay for other stuff I have done or bought in the last few months.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023? 2. Send it to us.
I'm often surprised people think they need a GM VSTi when they have hardware ones. Sure 'rendering' is easier, but the sound quality and control is often better from a hardware synth. Convenience vs. Quality is always an individual choice and varies by user.
I'm pretty sure the TTS-1 uses an older Roland SC sound set at its base, so newer *anything with a GM sound set will at least challenge it and likely sound better for a lot of the sounds.
Make your sound your own! .. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
I have used that Krome blending the horn section with the EPS sampler's horn section to be the supporting horns in that Southside Johnny band I was in. I pretty much WAS the horn section. With the live horns standing out front, but mixed WAY back out in front, nobody knew the horn sounds were 90% from me and 10% from them. I may now spring for a Korg Nautilus, the board that replaced the Kronos. One I spent time with it and learned how to make the sound layers it turned out to be a great sounding board. And I just made a "Combi" for every song I played that was not on the Combi I called "Base" so to move from song to song was just a matter of rolling the jog wheel to the right song name. I think I had 9 Combi setups. No more remembering what sounds I needed for each song. I had a similar experience in the Motown band but that was done inside the MX8 MIDI patch bay and that thing required a PhD in electronics to program!! Because on the ESQ-1 keyboard, internal banks are 10 sounds each, so bank 3 sound 4 was the 34th patch. but no no no, because MIDI (correctly) runs from 0-9 it was sound 33. Yet on a board with 8 sounds per bank, where I would normally think of bank 7/patch 2 as 72, that sound is patch 50. And that box stored the master/slave configuration, so controller 2 had to run to sound source 1,2,3,4,5 or 6. It was a nightmare to get used to, but I had 17 setups for the 3 boards and 3 rack modules. I had (still have) a program transmitting keypad set to channel 16, so when I wanted setup 7, I input the 7 key and then enter and it changed everything. BUT... 2 of those sound sources were samplers using floppy discs so I had to make sure I had the right disc in them before pressing enter.
Part of why I never drank on a gig. LOL!
Time to go read your link.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023? 2. Send it to us.
I wouldn't count on the GM sound set being *that much better on a newer Korg, as GM has been pretty stagnant, but as I said, it may be better than the TTS-1 in many settings. Worst case you now have a couple GM synths to choose from <grin> Maybe the piano on one of the synths sounds better than the other on song A but not song B, etc
Image shows how to send this message from inside RB if needed
Last edited by rharv; 09/16/2201:07 PM.
Make your sound your own! .. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
General MIDI, +++ GM +++, is a standardized list of 128 instrument patches and sound effects. The goal of the list is to make sure when you call instrument patch # 33 the GM compatible synth loads an acoustic bass instrument patch.
Before the list was adopted every synth module instrument patch list was defined by the synth manufacturer. This led to issues where the wrong instrument sound would get loaded when patch changes were made during a performance.
General MIDI 2, GM2, raises the number of standard instrument patch and sound effect names to 256.
Both Roland and Yamaha have additional naming standards, GS and XG respectively.
+++ HERE +++ is a pretty good comparison of the various MIDI patch name conventions.
To answer your question: Aren't the sounds in ANY synthesizer GM? As far as I know every hardware synth has a GM set.
Most if not all also have a large number of "better" sounds. I put better in quotes because I guess it is in the ear of the listener, isn't it? Anyway, GM is fine for working on things, but usually you want something that sounds much better, in my opinion. Those sounds are all available and accessible on hardware synths, you just have to use the documentation to know how to tell whatever program you are using how to find them. Patch maps are very useful in BIAB and Real Band. There are many already created for most of the major synths, and you can find most anything you need with a quick internet search. These ease the process of selecting something other than a GM sound for a particular part when using BIAB or Real Band.
See, clear as mud.
My wife asked if I had seen the dog bowl. I told her I didn't even know he could.
To answer your question: Aren't the sounds in ANY synthesizer GM? As far as I know every hardware synth has a GM set.
I think that's true, but in the case of my Kawai MP6, if I want the GM set mapped normally I have to change the configuration, as it defaults to a different mapping.
I'm fairly my Korg M50 also does something similar, though I rarely use it for anything.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
So far, I've avoided the plug-in synth thing entirely.
I have good ol' hardware synths. A couple of the older ones have been working since Windows 3.1 and Mac OS6 (System 6).
They do not need new drivers or anything when Windows upgrades, they still work when Apple abandons everything old, they all have about 5ms latency (none for all practical purposes), I can mix and match sounds from the different modules, and they don't tax the CPU of my computer.
I have many thousands of sounds to choose from, and they are ultra reliable.
I see no reason to switch to soft synths right now. Perhaps in the future? Time will tell.
To answer your question: Aren't the sounds in ANY synthesizer GM? As far as I know every hardware synth has a GM set.
Not true in the least.
Byron Dickens
BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency.
This isn't even true in Biab. There are some differences between the Cyote Wavetable sounds, and the Roland TTS (which I think sounds better. Probably people who can add more explicit detail can continue this conversation.
This isn't even true in Biab. There are some differences between the Cyote Wavetable sounds, and the Roland TTS (which I think sounds better. Probably people who can add more explicit detail can continue this conversation.
Did you mean the Cakewalk TTS?
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023? 2. Send it to us.
The Cakewalk TTS-1 is an OEM product created by Roland for Cakewalk. It replaced and is derived from Roland's Edirol HyperCanvas software. +++ Sound-On-Sound Article link +++
There are so many GM sound sets based on Roland stuff it's silly. Even the lowly Windows sounds are based on the most basic version of a Roland GM sound set. (though made even more degraded by MS turning it into a soundfont format and having Windows handling that) .. but you didn't hear that from me. Back in the day you could replace the GM.DLS file with a renamed SF and it worked fine. I used to be able to work with a 128 meg SF instead of their 3.5 meg file. Read the GMReadMe.txt file in your Windows\System32\Drivers folder.
Haven't figured out how to replace that file since W7 and W10. They made it almost impossible (though I'm sure there is a way). Just not worth effort with the multitude of other options now.
Make your sound your own! .. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
I downloaded a MIDI file and imported it into both RB and BIAB. (3 different versions from 3 different sources.) The sounds were hideous but that wasn't the reason for the exercise.
I got the thing to play and exported it to an audio file (I used WAV.) I then restarted RB and imported that WAV file.
I then ran it through the ACW and once again, the chords as interpreted by RB were not even close. I mean like really not even close. The song was in C and the chords were Eb, and not even close to correct as the progression "progressed". I deliberately picked a song I know how to play so I knew what they were supposed to be. ("I Can't Give You Anything But Love")
HOW do you guys get that frickin' thing to work??? I have never had ACW come even close. I once put one of my own songs into it and it butchered that badly too.
The game here is that I want to take MIDI files, plug them into either software, get a workable WAV file out of it, then run ACW so I have a chord sheet. With that chord sheet I can then generate what I want from the style picker and then generate tracks with the sounds I want. Has anybody ever done those exact steps successfully?
I honestly still don't know what that Chord Wizard this is even for since it doesn't actually work.
To allude to another thread, talk about cheating...!!
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023? 2. Send it to us.
Eddie, which Audio Chord Wizard, or ACW for short are you using?
Realband has an ACW. Band-in-a-Box (BiaB) has a different ACW accessible as a button in the Audio Editor, on the Views button strip and two places in the menu bar. The Band-in-a-Box ACW is newer and more accurate than the RealBand ACW.
The RealBand ACW needs for the first bar setting to be as accurate as possible. The same can be said for the BiaB ACW but it does a better job of guessing where the first bar is.
If an audio file has modulations or tempo variations it helps the ACW if you separate the audio file into sections so the changes are minimized.
The sounds were hideous but that wasn't the reason for the exercise.
Eddie, I'm not sure if this might have been a contributing factor in the poor result. I expect ACW works better with a higher quality input file to analyse. I don't really know and am just thinking out aloud here.
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
I downloaded a MIDI file and imported it into both RB and BIAB. (3 different versions from 3 different sources.) The sounds were hideous but that wasn't the reason for the exercise.
I got the thing to play and exported it to an audio file (I used WAV.) I then restarted RB and imported that WAV file.
I then ran it through the ACW and once again, the chords as interpreted by RB were not even close. I mean like really not even close. The song was in C and the chords were Eb, and not even close to correct as the progression "progressed". I deliberately picked a song I know how to play so I knew what they were supposed to be. ("I Can't Give You Anything But Love")
HOW do you guys get that frickin' thing to work??? I have never had ACW come even close. I once put one of my own songs into it and it butchered that badly too.
The game here is that I want to take MIDI files, plug them into either software, get a workable WAV file out of it, then run ACW so I have a chord sheet. With that chord sheet I can then generate what I want from the style picker and then generate tracks with the sounds I want. Has anybody ever done those exact steps successfully?
I honestly still don't know what that Chord Wizard this is even for since it doesn't actually work.
To allude to another thread, talk about cheating...!!
Not exactly the steps you're taking because they don't work. Doesn't matter why because the end result you're seeking; "I want to take MIDI files, plug them into either software, get a workable WAV file out of it, then run ACW so I have a chord sheet. With that chord sheet I can then generate what I want from the style picker and then generate tracks with the sounds I want." can be done successfully in either BIAB or RB with the ACW like you describe. But there's a better way.
Since you start with a MIDI file, it's much easier and faster to open that MIDI file in BIAB. BIAB will automatically detect the chords, populate the Chord Sheet, set the tempo, key signature and sets a MIDI Style and disables it so only the MIDI song on the Melody Track sounds out.
As far as I know, this works with any MIDI file, even one you create.
If you want to separate the midi channels onto individual Utility Tracks; After opening the MIDI file, reduce the BIAB Chord Sheet and select the MIDI file again and drag and drop the file anywhere on the Chord Sheet and BIAB will automatically separate and load each individual midi channel onto a Utility Track.
Here's a Henry Clarke Video demonstrating and explaining all the steps.
Last time I weighed in on this topic I was almost rode out of town on a rail. So let me be careful.
I have done this sort of manipulation to recreate covers over the years likely as much as or more than most. My conconclusion is, if you need the chords - buy the sheetmusic, if you need the midi - purchase it from a professional (in fact HC provides recommendations for two sites and I fully concur). Anything else is just messin around - which maybe is what you want to do. But, nothing wrong with that.
Charlie first. The key word in your reply was OPEN the file. I was IMPORTING it. I used OPEN and now I have a chord sheet. I didn't even listen to it because I really only wanted the chord sheet. I then saved that out as a BIAB file (MGX), then opened it in Real Band, where I prefer to work. I then transposed it to my key and adjusted the tempo. No issues there. Now I can dive into the chord chart and make the changes I want to make so I can do some chord substitutions with embellished chords and then run it through a different style. OPEN did the trick.
Now to Dan, the whole idea was just to play with something I had never tried before but I knew had to be possible. I needed that chord chart just to build the foundation of the song. Now I need to build the upper floors. For example, the MIDI file went straight into the song with no intro. I know what I want to do for an intro, and I can now insert bars and write the chord progression I want to use for an intro. I get my chord charts from Chordie, and would never buy a MIDI file. The only reason I wanted a MIDI file was to see if this could be done so a free one from MIDIS'R'US or wherever was fine. I don't even care what it sounds like as I will never perform it anywhere. Remember my thing about covers vs originals. I would rather tell my true story than someone else's fiction. Like this one about dealing with PTSD that I did a few years ago.
Eddie, glad open works for you. Other tips you may be unaware of since you don't use BIAB much and if you only are interested opening BIAB MIDI project for the Chords is to Open the MIDI file and change the Style that loads to a BIAB Blank Style (search StylePicker for Blank - there's 4-5 blank styles) and ERASE the imported MIDI file residing on the Melody Track and save the BIAB project as an SGU file rather than MGX. Doing this will open RB with Chords but no MIDI tracks you'll have to delete. Selecting one of BIAB's Metronome styles will load RB with chords and a click track set to the tempo of the BIAB file.
Since you also play keys, anything you may be working on using your keyboard, can be saved as a MIDI file and opened in BIAB loading the Chords, tempo, key signature, feel and a default Midi Style. Just saying homemade works equally well as professional store bought for how you're using MIDI.
What you're doing is a great way to quickly get from idea to BIAB project, including melodies.
This all worked really well. I had to do some adjusting of things not PG related (like enhanced chord voicing to use the Chordie chart chord names rather than the MIDI file chords) but the PG piece worked fine now that I learned what to do.
Working on songs for Herbstock 2023!!
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023? 2. Send it to us.
I'm not familiar with Chordie but if the program can export chords as text, BIAB can import chords in text format. You can bypass MIDI completely if that works for you.
Note that you can save any BIAB file as a .txt file using the Save Special | Save song on clipboard or text file command. You can also create a complete BIAB file using text....
You can see the results of the above text chart using copy (Ctrl-C) to copy the text to your clipboard and opening a new BIAB session and use Ctrl-shift-V to paste the info onto the Chord Sheet. It's quite a trick. Have we unleashed the beast now that you have all this new knowledge?
Well I hope you experiment some with the chord text feature. You can input Styles, Part Markers (a and b only), number of bars, tempo, key signature, memo, title and more.
The only embellishments I do is stories. I'm curious but assume a text chord sheet will accept any chord that BIAB program accepts. Maybe you can "embellish" the chords above or 'save as text' to one of your existing embellished chord charts and share your results.
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