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Review of a new Mini Pc thats got me cranked up....lol.
Caveats//Intro.
before someone 'yaps' at me having tried a mini pc in the past…
your needs might be different to mine. we all have different pc performance needs. some need a ton of traks and plug ins that need huge computing resources , and others dont.. like myself.
i subscribe to thinking of a producer i met once in a studio that said to me 'remember once great songs were done using very little'. so the type of pc i need supports up to 40 traks in a song with various/a smattering of low cpu plug ins.
(pg dx/reaps jsonic/some from computer music mag/the net)
so YMMV …youll have to do your own testing to see if a mini pc IS FOR YOU.
please NOTE i didnt want my lovely wife to spend lots of moolah (twas a delayed bday present from her cos i was still mulling various configs over.)
one reason i didnt want a lot of money spent by her was usb and cpu and other tech is advancing at a great rate now, and i'm watching carefully what apples strategy is with its 'M' cpu's (which excite me) cos i might get a mac mini in the next couple of years.
in summary this was a short term buy…but actually as it turns out has actually
'knocked my socks off'.... and might turn out to be a long time keeper.
(depending on day in/out dependability.)
in fact i will say 'im a chump' ..lol…and i completely underestimated its power.
its the 'bees knees' imho for little money.
Review of the mini PC.
after looking at loads of mini pc's…i ended up taking a chance with a…...
BEELINK SER 3 MINI PC. (see the net for detailed specs/reviews etc etc).
frankly its astonished me, and i dont get excited easily.
it cost just over 400 buckeroos on amazon.
brief specs.. are RYZEN 7 3750 H, 500gb m2 inside with a spare empty bay inside for sliding in a second drive.
16 gigs memory.
PROS ARE.
..i cant hear the fan. its quite.
..its a powerhouse. anything i throw at it,... its sorta mocking me..
'is that all ya got'...lol. my old stalwart refurb i5 laptop , realband reported 155 traks max. now with the mini pc , rb reports 255 traks.
..comes with win 11 pro installed, and boots fast.
(note…any recording pc i set up, doesnt see the net.)
..no probs so far running reaps/biab/rb.
..reapers and task mgrs performance views so far report the most minor pc resource usage ie just 'ticking over'. amazed me. but more testing to do.
..NO MAJOR BLOATWARE etc.
CONS ARE.
..would have liked a couple more usb ports, but no prob i just used a usb extender. my external dock (with 2 ssd's) runs like a 'bunny rabbit'.
..maybe this is a minor win 11 issue…dunno..but when i installed my audient drivers ,i was searching for the little audient user applet that lets various audio settings be changed , and couldnt find it. it turned out to be hiddon on the taskbar under ^..
so i pinned it to taskbar for easy access.
in conclusion , so far all is grrreat. i'm a happy lad.
but whether the mini pc can last years , i have no idea.
it was either this or a custom built for recording studios 2k pc, or a build it myself pc (parts price total isnt cheap) or another refurb. (my go to in the past).
whether a mini pc is for you..only you can determine that.
for me this solution offers great price/performance so far.
i'll report back if i get any probs.
happiness to all.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 10/28/22 03:28 AM.
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Caveat/intro:
Thanks Mike for providing the missing link.
Review:
The Audient setting isn't a BEELINK issue.
Conclusion:
Shopper's Sophistry.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Mike.
re congrats in other thread.
Thanks .
ive been doing more detailed testing today.
(with more detailed stress testing to do.)
some more observations.(for anyone reading about bee mini pc //ymmv.)
1..on this pc given ideally one would like core latency under 1000 micro secs or less…. it seems from what i see the core latency is way way less on the bee.
maybe 600 micro secs. (the notebookchek site has a listing of various pc systems and their latencies…obviously with no usb audio interface installed.)
apparently MS has been working to lower latency in win OS in recent years i understand.
2..i'm never gaming..but for those that do…i wouldnt expect a 400 buk pc like this with built in graphics to obviously have the gaming specs that a high end expensive pc might have with dedicated gpu. but i suspect if one was running less resource useage games..i dont see why it couldnt handle such.
3..i put my hand on the case occasionally , and just cant feel if its even getting warm.
yep i'm thinking of putting a second ssd inside.
best
om
ps i'm well aware the bee didnt cause the audient issue now solved. all working great.
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Don't worry about latency.
Those interfaces that went to the Cirrus chip family in 2019 boast Near Zero RTL over Fast USB 2 192kHz/24bit. Then they give some meaningless number like 4.16 or 3.59 ms RTL (round trip latency). The difference between 4.16 and 1.90 (Presonus over Thunderbolt 3 which your machine can't support) is the same as moving your ears +/- 14" closer or further away from your monitor speakers.
Nothing from Audent has those specs, BTW, which is why I can't recommend them. So many others do including M-Audio, Focusrite, MOTU, and 25 others, last I checked.
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Then they give some meaningless number like 416 or 359 ms RTL (round trip latency). The difference between 416 and 190 (Presonus over Thunderbolt 3 which your machine can't support) is the same as moving your ears +/- 14" closer or further away from your monitor speakers. Somethings awry with those numbers, Mike. Milliseconds would seem very wrong, so I imagine that's a typo, but microseconds would seem remarkably short. I also make the speed of sound about 14" per millisecond, which, unless I'm misunderstanding something, doesn't seem to match any of those.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
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Gordon. re latencies. you might find this site of interest in comparing low latencies of various systems including mini pc's. if you click on a pc name in the list very detailed test data comes up. https://www.notebookcheck.net/DPC-Latency-Ranking-Which-laptops-and-Windows-tablets-offer-the-lowest-latency.504376.0.htmlit looks like the Ser 3 i have has very low latency if you page down a ways. i found it an interesting analysis. so far i'm having great fun with this mini beelink pc. and am impressed. (ymmv) Mike. i might in the future go with a mac mini also. cos i like the M cpu strategy. best om
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Somethings awry with those numbers, Mike Some makers post miliiseconds, others post microseconds. I've edited the other post to be more consistent. The MOTU M4, for example, states Windows driver with 2.5 ms Round Trip Latency (32 sample buffer at 96 kHz)
Mac driver (optional, for 2.5 ms RTL@32/96 kHz and loopback feature) With CoreAudio, the spec for the Mac is 3.16 ms. Other devices are spec'ing as long as 4.53 ms. The Presonus Thunderbolt 3 interface is 1.9 ms and I've seen another that rates theirs as 1.1 ms while trying to convince you that the extra speed is worth the additional $2,000. Again, it's all Marketing nonsense. If you do the math with the speed of sound at sea level, you'll see that +/- 14" is about right and that RTL over "Fast USB 2" is more than fast enough.
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I've edited the other post to be more consistent. Ah, right ... I did wonder if it was a decimal point issue.
Again, it's all Marketing nonsense. If you do the math with the speed of sound at sea level, you'll see that +/- 14" is about right and that RTL over "Fast USB 2" is more than fast enough.
They wouldn't print nonsense would they  I reckon <= 10ms is fine for most purposes. It's notable that on stage, when the PA is relatively distant, that delays and echo-type effects can be quite disorienting. Thanks Mike. Clear now.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
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Gordon. well ive had lots of time to work with bee mini now. (i might get a mac mini yet to compare.) yep i'm a big fan now of mini pc's. this thing is FAST. and dont get me started on m2 tech. WOW !..INSANE SPEED. i see a future where all is mini..not just pc's but hopefully mini cheap lectric cars with a 1000 mile range..and mini nuclear products that a homeowner can install or a street or estate for free electricity (to also charge the lectric car..lol.) the one thing that concerns me bout lotsa lectronics these days is emf/radn effects after reading some articles recently on such. i was blinkin' amazed and thought this aspect had been solved in modern products. just google computer emf radiation and heart palpitations. lots of articles eg emf academy. https://emfacademy.com/imac-radiation/notice the comment bout 'wifi'..another reason i dont put the studio pc on the net. i'm getting a emf tester for my n' wifes gear. best om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 11/26/22 05:37 AM.
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Yep ... almost every PC I now have is a low-energy and mini.
There's a lot of spurious (excuse the pun) information about EMF. One of the classics is people being frightened of the radiation from mobile 'phone masts, whilst ignoring that their mobile 'phone turn down it's own transmit power when it's getting good clean transmission ... so it turns down the transmitter next to your ear if it sees microWatts of power from the base station. Radiation from electronic equipment is pretty tightly regulated. It may be in some peoples' interests to encourage hysteria about these things.
That said, mobile 'phones at their higher power close to the head are not a great idea. Power, of course, drops with the cube of the range from the transmitter, so it drops very quickly.
Around the mid 70s whilst I was working on a system for the fire service, which system used packet transmissions over their voice radio network, I used to consider that, one day, maybe we would have mobile 'phones that used packet data over a network of interlinked tiny radio base-stations. I wonder what became of that idea? I didn't actually get to work on the design of a system like that until about 1995. Sadly it turned out that the company couldn't really afford to do it and we terminated the project (very rare for me).
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
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Gordon.
re TEMPS.
yep i'm amazed at this mini pc n' heat dont seem to be a prob. considering its power.
frankly it leaves my old refurb i5 (that i did loads of songs with using biab/rb/reaps).in the dust.
just a pc build would cost me more for parts.
for a couple of hundred quid i'm not complaining mate cos the tech is gonna get even more advanced anyways n' change.
(also the worst ISR exec time i could see on a OS kernel mode driver.. was extremely low at a few microsecs.).
my audient interface is running (with v v low latency ) like a bunny rabbit….(a reason i like the audient usb drivers.)
(ps the gig performer site has an interesting article bout troubleshooting dpc issues. i have no issues.)
it looks like going with a lower wattage mini was the correct decision.
cos technically going with higher power cpu's means more heat/wattage etc.
i guess more cores//transistors/and..if i remember my electronics (your better than i) more transistors stuffed on the cpu wafers..and impact of 'gate lengths' and jolly old laws of physics.
i really like the lower power ryzen 3750 h. its a good compromise considering its performance. it can do way way more traks than i ever need in a song.
and biab/rb/reaper all are running great.
i can only wonder how powerful these mini pc's will be in a few years.
re EMF etc.
yep i dont want to get obsessed bout emf, its just my doctors are impressing on me always that as one gets older, one has to look after oneself and... excercise/nutrition/diet etc etc.
so, just in case..lol…the mini is way over the other side of the room.
best
om
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i guess more cores//transistors/and..if i remember my electronics (your better than i) more transistors stuffed on the cpu wafers..and impact of 'gate lengths' and jolly old laws of physics. Yes, though newer silicon geometries are getting around the expected limits. There was a time only a very few years back when they reckoned they'd hit the limits of small geometries because the energy loss through leakages exceeded the energy loss from operation. We've passed that 'limit' a while back now. Physics still says "not so fast" fairly regularly. "Gravity isn't just a good idea ... it's the law!"
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
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Gordon.
it looks like moores law was wrong i feel cos we have plateaued so long in the processor speed department.
we should be up to a zillion ghz by now lol.
as a old uni prof of mine used to say.
'the laws of physics will beat you always'
i want to see how apples m series of cpu's handle the heat problem. and how intel n' amd handle it too.
best
om
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Gordon.
it looks like moores law was wrong i feel cos we have plateaued so long in the processor speed department.
we should be up to a zillion ghz by now lol.
as a old uni prof of mine used to say.
'the laws of physics will beat you always'
i want to see how apples m series of cpu's handle the heat problem. and how intel n' amd handle it too.
best
om
Moore's Law was probably always going to hit an end-stop eventually. It's plateaued a bit, but not entirely. Whilst speed rises have largely stalled, the number of CPU cores has compensated somewhat for that. Somethinh like quantum or optical computing could still show this slow-down as a speed-bump, not a barrier.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
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Gordon. an interesting site for mini pc's is… https://liliputing.com/tag/mini-pc/you prolly know it. minisforum and geekcom are two i'm following. frankly i was totally wrong bout mini pc's. i'm gobsmacked by the mini. thought they were only good for surfing/messageing etc etc…lol. no matter what i throw at this pc , i cant hear any fan noise and its not taxed. i dont know how you fared in 'tech' ..frankly i wouldnt do it again as a career mate. what i found was either the employers didnt wanna pay, or if they did, one had no personal life cos they wanted us to work 24/7, or end users often were cheesed off cos us techs made more. so i dont feel sorry for companies that bleat they cant get techs. i worked all over… prolly the worst place i worked was Canada because of the above reasons… what i dont understand bout Canada is they bring in loads of new people each year (obviously to keep wages down) while Canada doesnt look after the people it already has. eg 1 in 7 kids go to school hungry , loads of poor seniors, stressed health care system thats broken, and food banks and lots of homeless. ridiculous. personally, instead of getting highly educated at uni in uk etc ..bottom line i prolly would have done better leaving school at 16 and trying to buy a pub lol. what i'm interested to see is how apple markets the macs in the coming years with the superb new M processors. will they follow the iphone strategy ? ie a new one yearly to tempt users to buy the new model with new features etc etc. but surely (due to the laws of physics) there is a limit/brickwalls they will come up against ?? gonna be interesting times. will apple bring out an even smaller mini pc ? you prolly know more bout ARM cpu tech than i. IS THERE A SPEED LIMIT to ARM for apple ? happiness. om
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frankly i was totally wrong bout mini pc's.
i'm gobsmacked by the mini.
thought they were only good for surfing/messageing etc etc…lol.
no matter what i throw at this pc , i cant hear any fan noise and its not taxed. A huge amount of the progress is related to keeping the waste energy low. Whilst raw CPU performance increases have slowed a bit, wasted energy is a 'hidden' part that's actually a big change. i dont know how you fared in 'tech' ..frankly i wouldnt do it again as a career mate.
what i found was either the employers didnt wanna pay, or if they did, one had no personal life cos they wanted us to work 24/7, or end users often were cheesed off cos us techs made more. so i dont feel sorry for companies that bleat they cant get techs. Aye. I thoroughly enjoyed my job and I made huge contributions to the companies for which I worked, humanity, life saving, research and more. In the past I would commend engineering for that, but not now. No, it never paid anything like it should. Worse than that, my last company turned me over big time. I was driven out of a spin-off company I helped found and which almost certainly would have failed without me. The founding CEO "thought" I'd been employed within the parent company to take his job away and the sales guy we recruited turned out to be an extreme narcissist. instead of getting highly educated at uni in uk etc ..bottom line i prolly would have done better leaving school at 16 and trying to buy a pub lol. Hmm, well, actually I did leave school (actually at 15, but "officially" 16), but I was fortunate to get an excellent technician apprenticeship that set me up very well technically. I think we covered more than the typical degree, minus a thesis, but plus real work in a tech environment. By the time I was in my late twenties, I was mentoring people with doctorates. Strange but true. I ran a club bar in my early/mid twenties as a not-the-day-job. I can tell you that it's hard work. With the day job as well I was working 90 hours most weeks and drinking far too much.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
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Gordon.
what i'm trying to figure right now is a couple things.
1..as well as the regular usb ports bee mini has a usb-c data only port.
so i'm trying to figure out what types of external devices/docks/extenders etc i can hook up to it. i presume anything that supplies its own power rather than needing power from a usb port.
and other thing is…
2..i have a dual 2.5 ssd dock hooked up to one of the regular usb ports.
great transfer speeds. great for backing up songs in progress or all traks etc when song finished…BUT i'm curious if i could take out the current two 2.5 ssd's , and replace with two m2 ssd's , each in a m2>2.5 sata enclosure can be done..ie would i see a big transfer speed diff over the current 2.5 sata ssd's.
it sounds like we both have had colourful careers lol.
just one example of many of the tech lunacy i went through….'
a short time after a company hired me on , the ceo was replaced by a new tough ceo.
who promptly told me he wanted me to fire a bunch of people and keep moi.
i couldnt do it, as the people had mortgages n' kids etc etc.
so i walked n' told him to stuff it. head office was shocked cos apparently no one went up against this titan…but i got my life principles…a typical brit i am.
easy come easy go lol. quickly found another job.
like you i often wonder what might have happened if i'd gone to aussie…but then i wouldnt have met my lovely wife. cant have it all. i still feel the uk is great if one is born into wealth but if your not..like me being a cockney lad raised in london…..
i had two choices , become a 'wide boy spiv '/doing dodgy stuff (i love 'only fools etc' tv show) to make a living or go to uni.
i chose the latter. i gotta hand it to the uk uni system…i went in to uni 'wet behind the ears', and g raduated as very mature with huge amounts of knowledge.
but then i ran into the old spiel from employers ....'your over educated'...sigh….so i dumbed myself down…lol.
i might get a mac mini , maybe a refurb m2 mini once the new m3 minis come out.
i feel the next 5 years are gonna be mighty interesting for us creators who need power.
i'm getting big trak counts in my bee mini tests. way more than i would use in a song..
the mac mini interests me cos i could see what logic daw might do for moi.
yep a friend of mine had a uk pub…one is tied to it. lotsa work.
yay england is up 2-0. but i wanted wales to get thru also as i once lived there.
best.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 11/29/22 10:23 AM.
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i still feel the uk is great if one is born into wealth but if your not..like me being a cockney lad raised in london…..
...
yay england is up 2-0. but i wanted wales to get thru also as i once lived there.
I may try to make sense of the USB-C port, but my gut feeling is that you may well not gain much by putting the two drives on it. I'm cockney too, Where in London? Actually, don't answer here, I'll PM. I too always feel sad when one of the other nations gets knocked out. Having four nations one can support is great, but it also means having at least three that will get knocked out.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
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USB-C is a port only, it is not a protocol. What you can hook up and how depends on the protocols your PC supports through it. BTW, I answered this for you already. Your USB-C port supports USB 3.1. Hooking anything faster to it will be limited to USB 3.1 and there's no workaround.
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By the way, nothing from Audent has those specifications, which is why I can't suggest them. Last I looked, M-Audio, Focusrite, MOTU, and 25 other companies did.
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William. huh ?? heres audients awards.... https://audient.com/tag/award/note the namm tec award. i'm happy with my evo..works great in bb/rb/reaper. very low latency. maybe thousands of people who are useing audient are wrong ?? just google 'audient reviews and awards'. happiness. om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 01/21/23 05:32 AM.
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By the way, nothing from Audent has those specifications, which is why I can't suggest them. Last I looked, M-Audio, Focusrite, MOTU, and 25 other companies did. William, don't even try. This is a thread of sophistry based avoidance of buyer's remorse. Gordon & Mike run with the tech knowledge & experience but neither is a match for "...yeah, but...".
Cheers
rayc
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I wouldn't worry. William just created a forum account to post that.
 Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
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Oh dear... Those are participation trophies. Everybody who wants one and advertises with NAMM gets one in some category or another. They think of enough categories till everyone is satisfied. Then these non-awards are touted by Marketing departments everywhere—which is the point of having them at all. I am not being cynical, That really is how it works—says a co-recipient of the Jolt Cola Tech Award for something or other 25 years ago (Software Development, I think). In honor of that award, I drank my first and last can. The company kept the fridge stocked with Jolt and V8, my work beverage of choice. Oh yes, besides being a member, I have had a direct relationship with NAMM over the years. [img:left] https://photos.app.goo.gl/keCB8vPdVbYs6xTE9[/img]
BIAB 2023 Audiophile, 24/60 Core M2 Mac Studio Ultra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
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Gordon & Mike run with the tech knowledge & experience but neither is a match for "...yeah, but...".
True. FWIW, I banned, with a grin, just one phrase for my teams "yeah but". The rule was that if you had a different case, you had to explain it and why and be prepared to debate it. Some of those "yeah, b.., Yeah b..., umm..." moments turned int changes of direction. I've listened to high-end hi-fi enthusiasts who will swear blind that cables are directional despite that it's easy to prove that they're not. If they're happy to part with their money, that's their choice. Maybe there are evil spirits in cables that are the wrong way round. 
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40.
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Maybe there are evil spirits in cables that are the wrong way round. smile Yes, to both the usurping and the uninitiated. Definitely.
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ALL.. (ps Steve i figured that out mate…kudos to you.) ADDENDUM. heres a interface shootout with real audio examples i posted awhile back. my audient is on the list. personally the only one that i felt was better than the others..and it was very subtle to my ears was the UAD APOLLO. https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/best-audio-interfaces-shootout/i forgot to mention the above was done by Lynn Fuston.. read his in depth music ptoduction bio at the bottom of the article. below where he comments on each interface includeing my audient. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- believe it or not i have a pretty good trak record when it comes to choosing gear. so lets have a bit of fun in the spirit of transparency etc…like they do on some gear sites using live examples of gear for comparison. Gordon…you use a scarlett interface right ? i KNOW this is a good interface. Mike……..i believe MAUDIO ? correct ? model ? (btw thanks for the namm info…i wasnt aware of that. jeesh.) Ray…whats your interface ? (no buyers remorse here.) SO…heres what i'll do for s's n' giggles. cos i'm all about having fun with this stuff.. i'll go to my fav gear store and rent the 3 interfaces you all own. then WITHOUT any post recording tarting up//conditioning….ie DRY. record vocs through each..and fourthly with my audient evo. then i'll post the four examples on pg here (with links)...and throw it out for all pg users to participate and choose if they can tell the diff…and their fav interface. (each interface will be anon for fairness.) thats about as fair as i can be….cos this cockney lad enjoys a good challenge. this has been done on other user gear sites with fun interesting results. eg gearspace has a fun thread dealing with mic pre's//examples. how about it ? only prob is a ryder (and its not a get out !!) youll have to be patient as my doctors have scared the heck out of me/wife re covid and a medical thing i wont bore you with….(all is good right now..) so i gotta be v careful with going to the busy gear store..and can only do this when my docs say its safe…if thats not acceptable…i dont have a good alternative as i dont wanna muck up my health. as i said at the beginning ive a pretty good trak record in choosing gear. as examples…yonks ago.. …was chastised by hi end studio blokes for suggesting people try pg powertraks..who then said. ('what ?? it can do that ??'..lol.) …biab …same…('oh its just for elevator music !' ) …reaper version 1 ('oh it'll never go anywhere !') debate on //differences re gear isnt new for me. as one example in industry a client didnt listen to me. note…i'm not the only audient user here on pg ..ive noticed on occasion other people posting. i just dont enjoy my integrity being questioned. for anyone else in the market for an audio interface i recommend this site hosted by julian krause who uses test n' measurement equipment etc on interfaces. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0HrD4cTsQpAZ8KK9jPzzGghappiness om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 01/22/23 06:56 AM.
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Gordon…you use a scarlett interface right ? i KNOW this is a good interface. Hmm, well, it depends on the system on which I'm working. This system has a Gen1 Scarlett 2i2. My notepad has a Gen3 Scarlett 8i6. The PC my wife uses has a Scarlett Solo (Gen1 IIRC), My studio PC has a Saffire Pro 40 and a Ui24R. Those are all good interfaces, chosen as much as anything else that I knew they would work with Linux, though the newer Saffire Pro 40 does not. Personally I think there isn't so much to choose between any studio-quality kit sound modules, whether by Focusrite, Audient, Presonus, M-Audio, MOTU, UA or whomever. And I think that's especially true once the sounds have gone through the mixing mill and has had compression, reverb, chorus, EQ, Melodyne and what have you. Transducers have a bigger effect on sound that most good I/O modules will and we struggle to identify a 1/2dB change in volume, but can be swayed by it. Moving a microphone a few inches will do that and will also effect the spectrum of the signal. For my money, if one is happy with one's choices, that's pretty much an end of it. Years ago I used to be asked for advice about what Hi-Fi to buy. My answer tended to be "if you're happy spending an absolute fortune chasing that little iota of improvement, then go for it. For most of us, set yourself a budget, pick the best, matching, kit you can within that budget, try it, buy it and stick with it." I know people who've spent many thousands chasing things like "directional cables". That way lies madness, IMHO. There are things that matter and things that are evil spirits. Be pragmatic. IMHO, YMMV
Last edited by Gordon Scott; 01/22/23 07:11 AM.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40.
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BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
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My notepad has a Gen3 Scarlett 8i6. These are great. The Scarlett gen3 is one of many that uses the new (in 2019) CL chip with the same great performance the others have. The only reason i didn’t care for it is that the Scarletts do not have an Output/Input mix/blend control for monitoring like most of the others (again, since October 2019). All this means is that you have to set it up in your DAW — but I really like the convenience of adjusting the blend between the Talent (“more me, please”) and the backing tracks (can I have the band a bit louder In the cans?”) with the twist of a single knob while tracking. I am officially spoiled by that feature. Otherwise, there’s nothing to dislike.
BIAB 2023 Audiophile, 24/60 Core M2 Mac Studio Ultra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
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Gordon.
i agree 100 % with your whole post including hifi comments//cable silliness…kudos.
i used to try and rescue pals from spending big quids//buy a small car money on hifi gear..
some listen, some dont.
re… one of your comments… i agree i couldnt hear much diff tween lynn fustons audio examples…cept a minor smidge with the uad interface..
i particularly found the piano was interesting in each example viz the low notes…hence i felt the uad beat the others by a tiny margin.
heres what lynn says on the sweetwater shootout link i posted re my audient…
'The innovative audient evo is tiny if space in your workspace is at a premium. The sleek and simple operating surface belies the power within this USB-powered box that offers dual mic inputs, a JFET instrument DI, phantom power, 24-bit/96kHz sampling, and Mac/Windows/iOS compatibility. Add in loopback functionality and the Smartgain automatic level-setting feature, and this minimalist-looking interface offers amazing power and sound at an affordable price.'
even tho' a pro like lynn with decades of experience provides comment on a piece of gear or a julian krause with his fancy test gear i always still do my own testing.
all i can say is, contrary to what some might think…i have no gear biases…
i am going on what the audient has done for me in practice over a year of loads of traks…
(and use with biab/rb/reaper.)...married to the fact i havent even had the most minor hiccup/frustration with it. (ymmv as all our pc rigs are different.).
given also the low latency drivers i like muchly…(and the fact i asked audient support a minor question and they responded pdq)...i have zero complaints.
as ive said before more than once…originally the evo was a 'stop gap' still something else floated my boat even better//major tech breakthru' etc etc…cos the tech re interfaces moves fast. then…what i'll prolly do is keep evo as a backup on a second pc.
anyway gordon i'm a happy lad cos my team west ham beat everton 2-0 phew..lol.got us out of the relegation zone.
happiness.
om
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I’ve posted this before (or near enough). I’ve over a dozen interfaces but will list the ones I’ve been using for the last 3 years. MOTU 828mkII FireWire. I bought one of the very last units made 16 years ago. Like any FW interface, it’s old, slow and obsolete. Fortunately, Thunderbolt supports most of the FW spec and through a couple of Apple adapters and knowing which MOTU drivers to download, it works as new. RTL is horrible but CueMix and being able to run a 32 buffer without breaking a sweat, if I need 20 extra inputs and another MIDI interface or have to hook up an ADAT etc., it’s there for me. MOTU MIDI Timepiece AV USB. Has the 2.0.1 firmware chip and 1.32 USB chip. 8 !/O over USB 1.1. I know which drivers to use. Again, if I need it, I have it. Both of the above work great on my iMac Pro and my M1. The following are all built on the same CL chip family. The mic pres, all other inputs, headphone outs, DAC, MIDI are all on the same chip. MOTU M2 (2 I/O + MIDI) Loopback enabled with drivers. No In/Out Mix/Blend knob. This goes in my briefcase when needed — unless it’s the 6 channel Mackie. MOTU M4 — 4 I/O + MIDI version of the M2 but has the Mix knob for I/O monitoring. Mackie FxPro6v3, FxPro10v3, FxPro12v3. The 6 and 10 fit into a briefcase, the 12’s a bit big but I use if for live gigs only. Different analog I/O/Effects/Aux routing depending on the model. All are 2Out/4In over USB — even the 33 Analog channel version. All have the Mix knob for I/O Monitor blending. Day to day: I’m using the M•Audio AIR 192|14. 8 Out 4 In over Fast USB 2 (4 Out 8 In analog but who’s doing that?). 4 Mic/line/instrument combi-jacks + 2 DIs + 2 Line Ins + MIDI + 2 independent headphone outs. In/Out Mix/Blend control. Core Audio only (no drivers) on the Mac. $329 at Sweetwater, can be found $300 or a little less if you shop around. Can also be found used. [url= https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AIR192x14--m-audio-air-192x14-usb-audio-interface] https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AIR192x14--m-audio-air-192x14-usb-audio-interface[/url] Upside for me: Top mounted controls on a desktop style interface (what a concept!) except headphone trim pots on front. Actual DIs with trim pots and both jacks on front. No mixer (typical for all inexpensive interfaces). USB outs are hard panned 1, 3, 5, 7 L; 2, 4, 6, 8 R. You have the option to monitor the Outs Mono or Stereo. Ins from your DAW are always Stereo. Mic pres can handle a Shure SM7B without a Cloudlifter — I use CL-Z anyway since it gives me a bit more headroom and works nicely on my ribbons. Downside— Combi-jacks and Line Ins are on the back; MIDI is on a dongle–really? 3-segment meters aren’t enough. I have other interfaces but this one is my day to day. I was hoping that, when MOTU introduced the M6, they would have also introduced an M8 along the lines of the AIR 192|14. Those twin DIs are the feature that sold me.Is the AIR 192|14 The best possible? Specs say so but that doesn’t mean anything if it doesn’t suit my needs. Had I known that we’d be three years into lockdown, I would have ordered a sample of that chip used in my AIR and breadboarded my own interface. I’d have done the Mic Pre gainstaging differently and used meters with more segments 6–8 if I could find the right ones and would have MIDI on proper DIN5 instead of a dongle. As more noise is being generated about 32 bit float, I’m hoping to see a new interface chip this year that supports it, seeing that there are a number of field recorders that do. Remote recording pays some of the bills around here and I’m already doing field recording at that bit depth. I made the switch in my DAWs a few years ago which simplified my life a lot. I take music merchant “reviews” with a pillar of salt and you should to. Listening tests are useless when a) all of it is pretty good and b) the reviewer’s job is to sell product.
BIAB 2023 Audiophile, 24/60 Core M2 Mac Studio Ultra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer 11, LogicPro
Finale27.4, Dorico5, Encore5, SmartScorePro64, Notion6, Overture5
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Mike.
i agree with you particularly re you said 'all of it is pretty good'.
no argument there from moi.… and thats what i found by listening to lynn Fustons' audio examples of various interfaces on sweetwater. cept 'for me' i felt the uad had a slight edge…nothing i can put my finger on…
i just liked it.
thanks for your gear list…thus..
in the spirit of transparency and my curiosity , once my docs tell me its safe (re covid) to go to my fav gear store which is always busy (lots of people) i'll try out/rent your maudio air.
(i obviously cant try all on your list. would cost too much to rent all that you have.)
does the maudio air have multi client drivers ? cos thats a lovely feature for me on win.
one statement of yours i found very surprising was the comment bout no blend control on motu m2..
but its there on the m4. i assumed this was 'de rigeur' these days.
i'm aware obviously lots of people like the motu M range plus good reviews. its a popular interface.
i must say i trust lynn fustons reviews on the sweetwater link i posted up thread….lynn having worked on gold n' platinum records according to his bio with some notable christian (and other) artists.
so i was pleased with his positive review of my audient.
frankly i dont want to spend big money on an interface particularly cos most songwriters are only earning miniscule buks out of streaming and due to rapid obsolescence.
probably one thing we can agree on is , with the release of the m2 macs.. this is very very exciting imho.
have a good one.
happiness.
om
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The Ui24R is nice for that ... each musician can have their on mix and each can connect via WiFi with a 'phone or tablet and access the "More Me" function. I don't know if other mixers offer that or similar. I'm not sure whether the 8i6's mixer can be controlled from Linux, which for me may be a downside. Sometime I must try.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts
BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
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does the maudio air have multi client drivers ? cos thats a lovely feature for me on win.
I don't know what you mean by "multi-client drivers" and only pay attention to Windows when I am paid (that ended 2020). I found the manual less than complete but here it is. AIR 192|14 User Guide There's only one downloadable driver and it's Windows Air 192|14 windows driver v1.0.3 one statement of yours i found very surprising was the comment bout no blend control on motu m2.. but it's there on the m4. i assumed this was 'de rigeur' these days. I know, right?. I was surprised by that omission. In fact, I'm still surprised that none of the Scarletts have it. Although the M2 has better meters, the Mackie FxPro6v3 costs $10 less, has 4 more analog Ins, the monitor blend knob, built in hardware FX and a number of other features. It is now what I recommend when users need only 2 out over USB. For Mac users, no drivers needed for 4 In over USB unlike the M2 (Win drivers support 2 Out/4 In for both). ProFX6v3
BIAB 2023 Audiophile, 24/60 Core M2 Mac Studio Ultra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer 11, LogicPro
Finale27.4, Dorico5, Encore5, SmartScorePro64, Notion6, Overture5
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The Ui24R is nice for that ... each musician can have their on mix and each can connect via WiFi with a 'phone or tablet and access the "More Me" function. I don't know if other mixers offer that or similar. Mackie and MOTU have interfaces with that kind of functionality but each implements it differently. Neither use the 24 channel desk mixer form of the Ui24R.
BIAB 2023 Audiophile, 24/60 Core M2 Mac Studio Ultra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer 11, LogicPro
Finale27.4, Dorico5, Encore5, SmartScorePro64, Notion6, Overture5
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Mike.. heres the definition of multi-client drivers… https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/multi-client/basically on win it means for example i can have biab and other music production apps running at the same time. ie multiple production apps sharing the same driver. its very convenient; some interfaces dont have such MC support. the pricing of the maudio and mackie products is good value. but i'll have to check if the drivers are multi client …. i looked on the net tons but didnt find info on asio MC support on either products. i'll have to talk to my fav gear shop or the manufacturer's support cos currently all is copacetic as to drivers…things are different for you re drivers on mac obviously. Happy 2023. om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 01/24/23 10:08 AM.
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UPDATE//MIKE.
btw I understand it is a special mac day today.congrats.
apparently on mac the core multi client feature is built in i understand. but not in win. its up to the interface driver. its not built in like on mac.
i just talked to mackie support…thankfully easily accessible via a 1-800 number. impressed.
sadly on windows the pro fx v3 mixers drivers are not multi client.sigh.
you lucky ducks on mac re this MClient plug n' play feature.
best.
om
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UPDATE MORE ASIO MULTICLIENT ON WINDOWS. https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=718708#Post718708ie motu m.4 and ssl 2/2++ driver mc info on their web site. SO i updated the above pg link.which lists other asio mclient interfaces for win. ps mike. impressed with motu turnaround response by support. in spirit of transparency ive also been looking interfaces with high gain mic pre's eg 72 db. ie sm7b thus saveing an in line preamp booster front end.
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 01/25/23 01:49 PM.
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Last edited by rayc; 01/25/23 03:00 PM.
Cheers
rayc
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Damn. Too bad those are no longer available. I would have bought three sets last week. All of the bargain ‘phones I looked at had long, straight cables. Had I seen any with coiled cords (that still sounded acceptable, of course) I would have bought them instead. I wasn’t interested in buying more sets of 7506s for occasional tracking.
BIAB 2023 Audiophile, 24/60 Core M2 Mac Studio Ultra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer 11, LogicPro
Finale27.4, Dorico5, Encore5, SmartScorePro64, Notion6, Overture5
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
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