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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Sep 2022
Posts: 2
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OP
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2022
Posts: 2 |
I am up to date with 2022 versions of BIAB and Real Band. I have a good vocal track except for the final 's's being muddy. I've tried several effects but none have sharpened the sound. Can anyone give suggestions on this?
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Jan 2013
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Expert
Joined: Jan 2013
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Howdy....
Are you referring to your stereo final mix is sounding 'muddy' to your ears?
If so, sounds like you need to address some EQ'ing.
FX/signal processing won't fix the mud in the mix.
If you post up the track is would be much easier to provide some suggestions by forum members?
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 11,383
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Joined: Dec 2002
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I am up to date with 2022 versions of BIAB and Real Band. I have a good vocal track except for the final 's's being muddy. I've tried several effects but none have sharpened the sound. Can anyone give suggestions on this? Are you limited to BIAB tools only? There are some powerful vocal editing from Isotope products which may be the answer.
Dan, BIAB2024, SoundCloud Win11, i7(12thGen), 32GB, 1TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD), 2TB Libraries, 1 TB(WD-Black), 2TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD)Data, Motu Audio Express, Keystation 61, SL88 Studio, Reaper
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Sep 2022
Posts: 2
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2022
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Yes. The stereo mix is muddy (but only as far as 's's go. I will focus on EQing and see if I can find the right combo to fix the problem. Thank you so much for the suggestion!
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,629
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Are you working in BiaB or RB?
I'd go back to the specific vocal track and work on the EQ for that first.
Get that so the 'S's are nice and clear. Then remix it.
Sometimes EQ works great, sometimes the frequency isn't there enough in the original track, at which point you can try some enhancement type tools that do math and add related harmonic frequencies to the track, but you have to be careful because it is easy to abuse, and easy to focus in on the example given 'S' and not notice how else it is affecting things.
To combat this, I usually take a break and then listen back to the result in the mix with fresher ears.
/just a safeguard against falling into the previously mentioned trap
//But do try simple EQ first, find the missing 'S' frequency and add more to start .. if it works, that is usually the quickest way
/// sometimes parametric EQs (that allow you to home in on the desired frequency) work better than graphic EQs, depending on your abilities with both
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Apr 2017
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Expert
Joined: Apr 2017
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There is a whole class of Dynamic EQs that can help. Ozone 10 Dynamic EQ
BIAB 2023 Audiophile, 24/60 Core M2 Mac Studio Ultra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer 11, LogicPro
Finale27.4, Dorico5, Encore5, SmartScorePro64, Notion6, Overture5
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 354
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: May 2016
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Have you been using De Esser on your vocals?
-if yes - did you over do it?
- you can subtly add some EQ in the high freq after the De Esser without re introducing sibilance.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Apr 2017
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There are de-essers and there are de-essers. This one is the most natural sounding I have ever used. Eioses e2deesser This web site is having issues with an expired certificate but the site works and you can get a trial license from Eiosis. You can also get it through Slate Digital but I don’t know if you can try it first through Slate.
BIAB 2023 Audiophile, 24/60 Core M2 Mac Studio Ultra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer 11, LogicPro
Finale27.4, Dorico5, Encore5, SmartScorePro64, Notion6, Overture5
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Dec 2016
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Joined: Dec 2016
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I found Melodyne one of the best tools for de-essing. In Melodyne it is easy to see the sibilance and easy to pull it down. Check out the videos available on Melodyne. (One reason to update to version 5 that someone asked about) Tony Edit: added a video https://youtu.be/irEt3XyhvtU
Last edited by Teunis; 11/09/22 01:54 AM.
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BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Apr 2017
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I found Melodyne one of the best tools for de-essing. In Melodyne it is easy to see the sibilance and easy to pull it down. Check out the videos available on Melodyne. (One reason to update to version 5 that someone asked about) Tony Edit: added a video https://youtu.be/irEt3XyhvtU Ha! You're right. I forget that I've been using it for that (among other things) for years. I do it on individual notes, however, is not a "set and forget" process like a de-esser once you have it properly tuned.
BIAB 2023 Audiophile, 24/60 Core M2 Mac Studio Ultra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer 11, LogicPro
Finale27.4, Dorico5, Encore5, SmartScorePro64, Notion6, Overture5
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,055
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There are myriad means of dealing with the issue as indicated in the responses. I’ll add a plus one to dynamic EQ — it took me a while to both understand and begin using it but nowadays I find it an excellent tool and often use it it situations where I before used a multiband compressor. Ozone 10’s version is excellent as are IMO all of the modules whether used in a mastering chain or on individual tracks.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 6,248
Veteran
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When the esses, (sibilant sounds), are too bright/cutting/aggressive I use pre fx volume automation to reduce it, (the wave form is very obvious and can be made more so in spectoral view). Sibilant sounds are very aggressive and result in a very dense, dark, small visual representation.
I suspect that raising that area may lift your ssss sounds IF there's enough of the actual sound recorded.
If you've lost bright esses without having treated the recording then there's something wrong along the chain. The worst set up for creating excessive sibilant sound is close to the microphone with a dry mouth.
What's your signal chain & how do you address the mic?
Last edited by rayc; 12/20/22 08:39 PM.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 121
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 121 |
A sharp sibilant sound that becomes 'muddy' when mixed, suggests that you have digital distortion. That is, you've exceeded 0 dbFS. I think this has been asked, but if it sounds acceptable in the original recording file but not in the mix, that would certainly might be the case.
There is also the possibility that you overloaded the microphone or preamp when recording at the time you were singing those 'esses.'
Without delving into the endless aspects of keeping your mix at respectable level, the simplest is to make sure you're recording doesn't peak above -6.0 dbFS ... and then watch those peak levels as you process and push those faders.
Last edited by DFT; 01/03/23 01:46 PM.
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