I wish selected bars could be frozen and unfrozen ... including obviously the parts of the tracks contained within those bars, while permitting regeneration of unfrozen bars entirely, or tracks therein not otherwise frozen.
This and the opposite ability to regenerate 'en masse' selected bars and their constituent tracks ... other than any frozen, would be a tremendous step forward for BIAB's workflow.
I was encouraged to post this in the Wishlist following a post in another forum here on Bar Freezing. It contains a fuller description of how this might work.
I thought when you Alt+F8 a section the track state is then set to frozen but you can still Alt+F8 other sections on that track still but it won't destroy everything if you hit Gen/Play ?
If you had freeze individual sections you would need to keep track of them all, maybe in the Audio Edit view highlight that section of track on that instrument (bars or beats) then right click Freeze Section then it will have a blue overlay color maybe ? and right click Un-Freeze Section or Un-Freeze All Sections ? It would have to work with midi also for when they add that multiriff for midi function, so maybe that could use the Audio Edit window of the midi track ?
Sorry, but I don't think it's a good idea. You can already do that with partial regeneration, just need to think differently (regenerate what you don't like instead of keeping what you like). Adding a new way to do something that you can already do with the program would not add any extra value, it could be potentially confusing for other users, and it would require extra development resources that could be employed in GUI redesign / simplification or bug fixing.
Sorry, but I don't think it's a good idea. You can already do that with partial regeneration, just need to think differently (regenerate what you don't like instead of keeping what you like). Adding a new way to do something that you can already do with the program would not add any extra value, it could be potentially confusing for other users, and it would require extra development resources that could be employed in GUI redesign / simplification or bug fixing.
No need to be sorry. There's room for many opinions here.
You may already understand this, but just to be sure it's clear, what I propose is actually more than what 'ALT+F8' can do. The current iteration of 'ALT + F8' only permits regeneration of a single track in a static arrangement. A 'Bar Freeze' approach would permit regeneration of all tracks for a specified section of the Chord Sheet or selected bars.
This accomplishes at least three important things. One would be to add or remove pushes, holds, shots and rests or simply change a chord to the entire arrangement without having to regenerate track by track. Another would be to make a style change, either changing the selection of the A, B, etc. patterns or adding a whole new style to part of a song. And finally, it would take less time than having to regenerate tracks one at a time.
I would be equally satisfied if I could make a similar selection of bars and regenerate all in a single pass, keeping the rest temporarily frozen.
As I said in the other thread, this is a different way of looking at it and I can see more efficiency in doing it this way. Less regeneration time; not limited to one area.
+1
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
If you had freeze individual sections you would need to keep track of them all, maybe in the Audio Edit view highlight that section of track on that instrument (bars or beats) then right click Freeze Section then it will have a blue overlay color maybe ? and right click Un-Freeze Section or Un-Freeze All Sections ?
Why not simply on the Chord Sheet? Have the bars colored or a colored or heavy frame around the bar?
You have 24 tracks with different sections frozen I don't know how you would display that all on the chord sheet ? you will have to post a pic. Someone said about a multitrack audio display like a DAW ? Biab does seem to be moving into a DAW.
I don't want or expect it to move into a DAW. I've got a couple that work just fine.
The idea of a frozen section is that all tracks in that section are frozen. So, what else is to keep track of?
If you wanted to Alt+8 one of those frozen tracks in the section, well while you were doing so that track would revert to unfrozen and when you were done it would reconfirm to its brethren.
Even so, that's not the idea. The idea is one section or more of bars is at the moment foresee-ably finished/ done/ perfect/ etc. and you don't want to mess further with it ... but later if you change your mind you still can.
Like this so it freezes the Master of that section ? so it applies to the song section rather than individual tracks ? I think it's already becoming a DAW with all those extra tracks instead of standard BB 7, so you have a 24 track workstation with digital audio, that horse has bolted.
I wish selected bars could be frozen and unfrozen ... including obviously the parts of the tracks contained within those bars, while permitting regeneration of unfrozen bars entirely, or tracks therein not otherwise frozen.
This and the opposite ability to regenerate 'en masse' selected bars and their constituent tracks ... other than any frozen, would be a tremendous step forward for BIAB's workflow.
I was encouraged to post this in the Wishlist following a post in another forum here on Bar Freezing. It contains a fuller description of how this might work.
<The idea is one section or more of bars is at the moment foresee-ably finished/ done/ perfect/ etc. and you don't want to mess further with it ... but later if you change your mind you still can. >
In this particular situation a good solution is to use BIAB's Artist Performance File feature to freeze and save bars, because it meets all of these qualifications.
An Artist Performance File can include all of the tracks of a section of bars or any combination of using some instruments and excluding others. It's an appropriate solution regardless of a track or bar's media type content. It works with midi, supermidi, loops, RealTracks, audio or any combination of these.
Using the Artist Performance File feature allows continued editing and regeneration of the entire Chord Sheet and then include the saved APF or APF's to replace the desired bars in the final render.
Like this so it freezes the Master of that section ? so it applies to the song section rather than individual tracks ?
Yes, that is exactly the idea. I'm not sure about what you mean about "Master of that section?"
I conceive of it as a selection of bars, which could of course be an entire chorus. It would be obvious if the Chord Sheet was unfolded, but otherwise it would be illustrated as the choruses played through.
Something like, 'freeze bars 1-16 chorus two.'
F5 window would be the logical place to work from.
This also suggests that there is already coding that should make a like function not that much of a reach to incorporate into the normal Chord Sheet workflow.
This is a good idea. It is the way I thought it should have been at the very beginning. But please don't call it "Inverse Regeneration" , I get confused enough with the operation of these new features to have to deal with reverse thinking !
This is a good idea. It is the way I thought it should have been at the very beginning. But please don't call it "Inverse Regeneration" , I get confused enough with the operation of these new features to have to deal with reverse thinking !
Sometimes the newer users see things as they could have been, rather than as our experience has taught us to work with them, and I think this is one such case. What do you want to call it, Dan? "Generate where you want" has a nice ring to it.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
This is a good idea. It is the way I thought it should have been at the very beginning. But please don't call it "Inverse Regeneration" , I get confused enough with the operation of these new features to have to deal with reverse thinking !
I don't really have a dog ... or even a cat in that fight.
Honestly, I used that title for the Wishlist post as I thought it could draw attention to reading it. As in, 'what the hell is this about?'
How about 'Composition Lock?' Oops! I'm afraid that's the inverse of Matt's suggestion.
.. I'm not sure about what you mean about "Master of that section?"...
It's like if you had a Freeze button on the Master track it would freeze All tracks same as if you press the Mute button on the Master track it mutes all tracks. At the moment you have to go to menu Play > Freeze All Tracks So any section you freeze on the Master will freeze on All tracks.
OK, but I don't want to freeze all tracks. I only want to freeze the parts of all tracks contained within specified bars or sections which I select.
If you think about a spread sheet, I don't want to just freeze a row, which is what is similar to current track freeze. I want to freeze all rows in sections of columns. Columns being similar to the bars in the Chord Sheet.
I would need the master bus for the unfrozen sections I still want to work on.
That is just an example that it needs also if you want to freeze All tracks when done. The bar freeze will be a separate freeze for just the section/s of track but on the Master. If that's what you all want.
How might this happen? You click on the Master Bus somewhere and a smaller Chord Sheet opens where you select the bars you want frozen?
I can see that having a function on the Master Bus where you freeze everything so you don't inadvertently regenerate would be handy, but I'm flummoxed as to how this would work with bar/ section freezing.
Yes, but then you'd have to always work with the Chord Sheet unfolded, unless you know of some way to scroll to chorus 2 or 3, for examples, in order to select things there.
Which makes me curious about something. If you start with a Chord Sheet unfolded, do you get the same variations across choruses as you would otherwise?
OK, but I don't want to freeze all tracks. I only want to freeze the parts of all tracks contained within specified bars or sections which I select.
If you think about a spread sheet, I don't want to just freeze a row, which is what is similar to current track freeze. I want to freeze all rows in sections of columns. Columns being similar to the bars in the Chord Sheet.
I would need the master bus for the unfrozen sections I still want to work on.
Here's a screen shot of an Artist Performance File saving the first 3 bars of all tracks for each of three Choruses. Use Bar Settings to Mute 'all tracks' for bars 1-3 for Chorus 1, chorus 2 and chorus 3
This method allows continuing editing for the project while saving the frozen sections. A render of this mix is seamless.
I would never have imagined that 'Mute" meant frozen. I would have thought that the equivalent of the Volume slider in the Mixer had been attenuated to zero gain.
But if I understand this correctly, it is still lacking in a most important respect.
That is, I still want to be able to hear all the tracks as I play through. I don't part/ parts of the song muted. If I had to go back and forth to F5 and toggle, that would negate much of the usage I envision.
This is very useful, but unless I misunderstand, falls short of what I'd like.
Thanks again for the time you've taken to screen shoot and explain this. I'm learning a lot of things in the process. I know how to use F5, but I guess not as thoroughly as I thought.
I would never have imagined that 'Mute" meant frozen. I would have thought that the equivalent of the Volume slider in the Mixer had been attenuated to zero gain.
But if I understand this correctly, it is still lacking in a most important respect.
That is, I still want to be able to hear all the tracks as I play through. I don't part/ parts of the song muted. If I had to go back and forth to F5 and toggle, that would negate much of the usage I envision.
This is very useful, but unless I misunderstand, falls short of what I'd like.
Thanks again for the time you've taken to screen shoot and explain this. I'm learning a lot of things in the process. I know how to use F5, but I guess not as thoroughly as I thought.
I wasn't clear in my explanation. This method doesn't fall short of what you're looking for. You will hear all of the tracks as you play through the song. The reason there's a Mute at the bars that are saved is so both the normal tracks and the saved tracks don't sound and play in unison. You only want to hear the saved tracks for those bars during a play through.
The sequence will be the 'saved bars' will play the first 8 bars and the chord sheet 8 bars for all tracks are muted and all the tracks are unmuted beginning at bar 9. The mute/unmute is only done once in F5 and there's no toggling. However, if your project uses any Utility Tracks, they will also have to be silenced for bars 1-8 at each chorus.
When I have something I want to freeze, I turn those bars into an 'Artist Performance File.'
Those bars are then somehow reloaded (I'll search for how) back into the project and can be programmed to play within the chorus as they did before.
Where ever they are, I mute all the same bars with F5 so whatever else would otherwise be playing at the same time in the song file doesn't.
In case I changed my mind about the performance file's iteration in the 3rd chorus, I could mute it with the Audio Editor and unmute that chorus in the active song file. (Yes or no?)
As I've yet to try this, the part of creating the 'Artist Performance File' and importing/ attaching it to the active song file is pretty hazy. But it would seem it less elegant and perhapsa bit klunky as opposed to having like function directly in an active song file.
<< When I have something I want to freeze, I turn those bars into an 'Artist Performance File.' >> That's correct.
<< Those bars are then somehow reloaded (I'll search for how) back into the project and can be programmed to play within the chorus as they did before. >>
Yes. I'll be happy to assist you if you need it. There a multiple ways and according to your workflow, we'll get you situated with what fits your workflow or project.
<< Where ever they are, I mute all the same bars with F5 so whatever else would otherwise be playing at the same time in the song file doesn't. >>
Yes
<< In case I changed my mind about the performance file's iteration in the 3rd chorus, I could mute it with the Audio Editor and unmute that chorus in the active song file. (Yes or no?) >>
I've looked at the help menu, the Mixer tracks context menu, the forum and Googled ... and I don't see where to get started.
I read your post from 2020 regaling Artist Performance Tracks listing the what can be done, but not the how; and, all I gleaned from the help file was that Artist Performance Tracks play on the Melody Track.
You offered to help if you knew my workflow, so ....
Just imagine I'm writing a 32 bar song with 4 choruses. I'm sold on the first 8 bars and the iterated variations of those 8 bars on all but the 3rd chorus. So that's what I want to freeze.
I've looked at the help menu, the Mixer tracks context menu, the forum and Googled ... and I don't see where to get started.
I read your post from 2020 regaling Artist Performance Tracks listing the what can be done, but not the how; and, all I gleaned from the help file was that Artist Performance Tracks play on the Melody Track.
You offered to help if you knew my workflow, so ....
Just imagine I'm writing a 32 bar song with 4 choruses. I'm sold on the first 8 bars and the iterated variations of those 8 bars on all but the 3rd chorus. So that's what I want to freeze.
What's next?
No problem. I'll work up a step by step process for 4 choruses @ 32 bars and save the bars 1-8 for Choruses 1,2, and 4 and bars 1-8 will regenerate normally in Chorus 3.
Until then, thinking of your issue and versatility of Artist Performance Files, I created a short SGU file and saved 8 Bars in 3 choruses of four that started with a 3rd Party all midi style by Notes Norton. The Mixer Style contains a SuperMidi instrument, midi instruments, RealDrums and RealTracks. It's a demonstration of the Artist Performance File's power and versatility to work with any mixture of any type audio medial that works in BIAB.
Here's a link to a YouTube video of the playback and I've posted a screenshot of the SGU Chordsheet in this post for review.
I'm also posting a comparison of the original wav file to the saved BIAB Performance file where you can see that addition content is included in the save audio version for the APF to merge with the regular BIAB generated tracks.
Finally, there's a screenshot of the Artist Performance Wav file in the Audio Edit Window.
This should help you understand the Artist Performance File a bit better. Another good feature when using Artist Perforance Files is it's possible to have notation, guitar tab and piano roll in an Artist Performance File.
Okay. Give this a try. Here are steps and some screen shots to do the 4 chorus example you gave. Let us know how it goes.
01. Create a complete 32 bar, 4 chorus song. Example will use _BULB.STY and no Utility Tracks.
02. Drag the Master Icon into the WAV quadrant of the Drag/Drop icon and render.
03. Select the DAW Mode Button and drag the WAV render onto your desktop.
04. Close DAW Mode.
05. At the top of the Chord Sheet, select Audio\import audio.
06. Import the saved WAV audio file from your desktop onto the Audio Track at the default settings. This should import the render synced with the BIAB instruments.
07. Open Bar Settings (F5)
08. Select Chorus 1
09. Mute All Tracks at Bar 1a - Set the Audio Track Back to normal. Set All Tracks Back to Normal at bar 9b - Set the Audio Track to Mute.
10. Select Chorus 2
11. Mute All Tracks at Bar 1a - Set the Audio Track Back to normal. Set All Tracks Back to Normal at bar 9b - Set the Audio Track to Mute.
12. Select Chorus 4 (skip chorus 3 because bars 1-8 are not saved).
13. Mute All Tracks at Bar 1a - Set the Audio Track Back to normal. Set All Tracks Back to Normal at bar 9b - Set the Audio Track to Mute.
14. Close Bar Settings (F5)
Press play to hear the song. Observing the BIAB Mixer, the Audio Track vue meter should play bars 1-8 and the other instruments are silent. The Mixer instruments should transition to playing at bar 9 with the Audio Track Silent. This will repeat for Chorus 2 and 4 while Chorus 3 plays through normally.
Bars 1-8 for Choruses 1,2, and 4 are audio synced to play with the Chord Sheet and will be saved with the file. Editing to the Chord Sheet can continue without affecting this file. The file will change if the Key Signature or tempo are changed without altering the audio wav. Save the file to preserve edits.
There should be two WAV files once you save the project. The original DAW Mode Render and another WAV file saved with the project name. The two files contain the same audio but the saved wav is larger in size than the rendered file. It's the file that BIAB will open and load when you open the project after it's saved.
I assume that's due to BIAB saving APF information into the file. Artist Performance Files are unique to BIAB and allow users to do many tasks with audio on any BIAB Mixer Track. It makes it possible for audio to be loaded onto any of the original seven Legacy Tracks.
I want to sincerely thank you. You have gone to great effort to demonstrate how this is done and I really, really appreciate it.
But while this approach can do what I want, it is not at all what I want. When you generously laid out the steps in your recent reply it became clear to me.
I want a composing editing tool. This is, in my opinion, a very useful archival method to resurrect something you might have done in the past and want later to improve upon or expand.
To accomplish this once while working on a project I'd estimate to take at least 5 minutes with rendering, importing and programming F5.
What if I wanted to make a change after I'd imported this? Wouldn't I have to go through the entire process again in order to change the behavior of the Artist Performance Track/ File ... or at least through F5?
And I would have to keep a lot of settings in memory as I don't believe there is a simple method to review what is frozen/ unfrozen from a basic view of Chord Sheet and Mixer.
In my view 'Section Freeze' should be a transparent, reversible in part or whole, simple to access and implement function of the basic BIAB composition workflow.
DFT, It’s a good point you’ve made. There could be a flag on parts you’ve generated that would protect them (mark that section “frozen”) as opposed to the rest of the track. That doesn’t exist now of course, and you just have “frozen” or “ not frozen” . But it’s a good idea for the future.
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, I get confused enough with the operation of these new features to have to deal with reverse thinking 
!
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