I keep seeing this and I'm not sure if it's expected behaviour, something I'm doing wrong or something odd on my setup of BiaB on Wine.
I'm importing a MusicXML file with an anacrucis and coda. (BTW I always have to tweak the anacrusis as the notes are always, illogically, left-justified in the bar).
The MusicXML contains a single chorus song with the coda present. I then set the "Edit"->"Song Form"->"Setting for this song"->Title/Chorus to reflect the layout of the song and exit the dialogs. I then expand the song to multiple choruses, so that I can set up the tag ending.
I set the tag to exit the chorus after, e.g., one bar from the end, to start the tag at it's first bar and to run to the end of the tag. I uncheck the "generate ending".
At this point, I can examine the melody and see the notes in the tag as I expect.
Here's what's puzzling me though ... when I then generate the song, I get a copy of the final bar of the chorus inserted into the start of the tag, pushing the rest one bar further to the right. Undoing the generate does not undo that, so I start over, though I guess I could edit the notation instead.
Is this normal/expected behaviour, or something else, please? Is there a workaround to avoid it?
Edit: 2023 1004 ... I should try 1006 later. Edit 2: also 2023 1006 on Win8.1
Last edited by Gordon Scott; 03/07/2311:59 AM.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
Whilst on this, I find the lock-out of "tag exists" frustrating, because I'm importing a single chorus song to set up the structure and in that process I will set up the chorus to its number of bars and everything after that is the tag. As I can change the number of choruses on the main screen, from the imported 1 to a practice 4, and in principle BiaB should know how to handle the tag.
As it is at present, I set up in "Settings For This Song" with one chorus, increase the number of choruses, go back into "Settings For This Song" to set up the tag. If I forget myself and reduce the number of choruses to 1, BiaB will drop that tag information. It'll be restored if I notice and do Undo, but will not if I change back to X choruses.
But I fail to see any sensible reason why "once through a chorus" and "last time through the chorus" should be different. Perhaps it's something to do with folding and unfolding or XX al Coda?
Most of the time, what I want is just:
Do I want a turnaround? If yes: play the rest of the chorus, If no: exit here and play the tag.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
I tried this again on build 1010, both on Win8.1 and in Wine.
I've also tried a slightly different sequence of actions, but with the same final outcome.
This time, as before I open-special a one chorus plus tag MusicXML file. I open the "Settings for this Song", set the length of the chorus, but this time I turned off the "Generate ... ending" option and close the dialogs.
I check the tag and it's still OK.
I set the number of choruses to 4 and again check the tag and again it's OK. I open "Settings for this song" and set the tag options to exit after bar 31 (one from the end of the chorus), start the tag as bar 33 and end at bar 37. OK.
I check the tag and again it has moved one to the right and I have bar 32 inserted into bar 33.
To me this appears wrong.
I can do this with several songs and it seems repeatable across them.
Edit: This way it doesn't seem to need the generate to get the 'insert'. Maybe it never did and I confused myself.
Last edited by Gordon Scott; 03/09/2309:32 AM.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
Trying to work around this, I've just cutting the notes in the extra bar, ready to move note in the bars to the right left by a bar.
What I see for the cut may provide a clue about what's happening under the surface as the bar number for the cut doesn't match the highlighted bar.
I'm not used to note editing in BiaB, so maybe this is operator error/misunderstanding, but whatever I find it confusing/misleading.
It does remove the correct notes, though.
Cut and paste of the following bars also shows what appear to be wrong bar numbers, but after allowing for that does also copy to the correct 'bar 32', which is the bar labelled "33 (4) tag".
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
I think I understand what you are doing. So essentially you have a one chorus song in BIAB with a MIDI melody track that is longer than one chorus, so there are notes past the last bar of your chorus. Then you are changing the number of choruses and letting BIAB adjust your melody track automatically.
I tested this and it is working as I expect it to - it copies the melody chorus bars "x" times and retains the ending notes. These are the notes that you want in your tag. However it sounds like you want the song to jump from somewhere in the middle of the last chorus to your tag. BIAB isn't going to adjust your melody notes automatically when you set the tag ending, so that's probably what the issue is here. I suppose that you would like it to ask you if you want it to adjust the melody notes when you set the tag, and I suppose that might be possible in theory, but it doesn't work like that currently.
So what you need to do is cut out that portion of the last chorus melody. If you are copying and pasting in a tag ending, the ending bars display 'linearly' in the copy/paste dialog, so you're right about that internally it is thinking of it as the "33rd" bar of the song, even though it has jumped visually to bar "34".
Copying the chorus out x times is reasonable, but I set the "Tag exists" section of the dialog to jump after bar 31 to bar 33, but what it appears to do is rename the existing bar 32 to 33 and jump to that, so it says it's jumping to 33, the bar is labeled 33, but it's notes content is as bar 32. More than that, it appears that the chord names are set right, so now the notes and the chords are a bar out of step with each other.
I move the notes, not the chords, to get them right and to get them back in step with the chords. The cut and paste dialogs also name the bars as out of step as in my image. At the very least, that's all very confusing.
Effectively if I ask "Tag exists" to jump after bar 31 to bar 33, BiaB will jump for the chords, but not for the notes ... it just carries on with the notes of what is/was bar 32 in what BiaB seems to think is bar 33.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
I *think* you just said exactly the same thing I said.
Quote:
I move the notes, not the chords, to get them right and to get them back in step with the chords.
That's right, that's what you need to do. So if you add a tag to an existing song that skips bar 32, you'll need to deal with the melody notes that were previously in bar 32 but are now in bar 33. And I agree the Copy dialog should specify the visual bar 33 number if you open the copy dialog on that bar.
Hmm, I've just tried this reducing 4 choruses to three choruses. Again the final bars and tag are mangled.
This clearly doesn't work. It appears that I cannot change the number of choruses if there's a melody with a tag, without breaking the song.
I guess I'll go back to omitting tags completely.
Edit: Oh yes ... I'd used Ctrl-X to get that cut/copy dialog, though even using Edit->Copy gives what I believe are the wrong bar numbers. Song says 33, dialog says 31 (different song).
Last edited by Gordon Scott; 03/11/2302:19 AM.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
Another option might be to have two versions of such songs, one plain vanilla chorus and end, and one with a predetermined number of choruses and the tag.
It's rather clumsy, but it mostly would work.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
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