I am going crazy with the drum fills on my song. I have set up part markers, and right clicked on the bar and chose Allow drum fill for the bar before the part marker. This occurs a number of times in the song. For some sections it works, and for others there is no drum fill. I made sure the drum track is not frozen, and I click on Generate and Play. Then I get a fill where it was missing, but then some of the ones I liked before are gone now! I know BIAB has no current feature to re-generate parts/bars of RealDrum tracks (which would be great!), so I can see that if I Re-generate the whole song it might change some fills to ones i might not like as much, but removing them is a bit much. I keep thinking there is some setting I'm missing. Any thoughts or suggestions (other than trying the Copy & Paste of drum parts in RealBand) I would appreciate them. Thanks all!
2023 BIAB Ultrapak, Reaper, EZDrummer 2 & 3, Roland VS-2480, Tascam 38 Reel to Reel 8-Track
I'm new and probably should keep my mouth shut but . . . In the songs I have done so far in BiaB I get a drum fill the measure prior to every part marker. Doesn't matter if it's the same or different part
Don't ever try and be like anybody else and don't be afraid to take risks. -Waylon Jennings
Are your part markers a different color then the prior section color? They have to be for a drum fill.
I didn't know that.
And I don’t think it’s true. Fills are more exaggerated between changes, particularly green to blue. But my experience is almost exclusively in the jazz and Latin styles, and occasional gentle drum fills are playable within the same part marker type. Plus, as of BIAB 2022, you have control whether a part marker triggers a fill.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Are your part markers a different color then the prior section color? They have to be for a drum fill.
I have done songs mostly in MIDI but also with RTs and the color of the drum fill doesn't matter. You will get a drum fill regardless of the drum fill color.
Now having said that some styles, mostly new age and train drumming, the drum fill may only be a cymbal hit or an extra drum hit.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Are your part markers a different color then the prior section color? They have to be for a drum fill.
I didn't know that.
And I don’t think it’s true. Fills are more exaggerated between changes, particularly green to blue. But my experience is almost exclusively in the jazz and Latin styles, and occasional gentle drum fills are playable within the same part marker type. Plus, as of BIAB 2022, you have control whether a part marker triggers a fill.
Maybe, I got something mixed up there. But a blue to blue will move the next measure to a new line (if configure to) but will not add a drum fill, while a blue to green will move the next measure to a new line and will add a fill. I just tryed it, and it was as I remember. You guys must know that?
1..create a new bb project separate from your song….lets call it Gonzo Drum Fills.GDF. 2..set GDF to same tempo as your song…and drum style(s) you want in song. 3..populate the bb chord sheet all over with x.d (x = song key it dont matter c or d or whatever). eg c.d means only play drums. 4..put markers everywhere you want…n' any pushes/stops you want etc.etc. 5..generate GDF to hear drum fills play back… then you can place the fills anywhere you want mate n' move em around.to see where the fills work best in the song against the song arrange bed traks.
between bb n' realband …you can do the following…
..gen loads of midi n' audio drum traks. (on the midi drum traks you can load in drum plug ins if you wish) ..as above re fills etc . ..as above to do FANCY SHORT n' LOOONG DRUM SOLOS ! ..using above ideas you could get rhythms that sync with the real drums. eg lets say you want a synth rhythm that follows the drums or whatever,as realband has 48 traks you can get very very fancy with genning loads of drum traks n' fills etc etc… eg rb has a drum pattern generator also that can be used for instrument rhythms. …the skys the limit.
lots of triks to discover in rb eg sometime check out rb BARS VIEW for moving chunks of drum riffs around not only within a trak but also comping new final drum trak from various drum generations.
for EXAMPLE in rb you could end up with the following..
..end up with a trak with a final comped drum trak (from several gens.) ..have a separate trak for FILLS. ..have a third trak for drum SOLOS.
bars view is very useful in rb.
anyhoo i hope this gives you enough info to start. lots of drum triks to discover tween bb n' realband.
happiness.
om
ps MATT is spot on with his comment EXPERIMENT. (in both bb n' rb)
BiaB 2023 UltraPAK - I have a song up right now on the other screen with Blue (a) to Blue (a) and green b to green b several places and I get a drum fill at all of them. I did it that way just to get the drum fills before I knew about the "Allow Drum Fill" check box.
Last edited by Sawmill Music; 03/17/2301:49 PM.
Don't ever try and be like anybody else and don't be afraid to take risks. -Waylon Jennings
I just ran about 40 styles where I changed every 4 measures, A-A-B-B. I used about 20 MIDI styles and 20 RT styles. In every case there was a drum fill at each A and B.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
I know BIAB has no current feature to re-generate parts/bars of RealDrum tracks (which would be great!)
Yes that would be great. In the mean-time there are various solutions that would involve copying audio here and there, but here is a trick you could use. This isn't something that's normally done but it will work...
But first, a fill SHOULD actually occur in every bar preceding a part marker, unless you disable fills at that bar. Perhaps you are hearing a fill but it's just not as intense as the other fills in the style. If on the other hand there really is no fill at all, that could be a bug in the style.
Here is the trick you could use to select certain fills to play in your song.
1. First you need to find the "definition" file for the RealDrums being used in your song. This is one of the text file in your bb/Drums folder. If the RD has variations (^01, ^02... ) then you need to locate the text file for the same variation. Additionally, it has to be for the same tempo. If your RD has a ~ symbol in the mixer you need to pay attention to that, since that indicates the RD is automatically being substituted for one with a closer tempo. E.G. BluesShuffleHard^4-HHDb,RideDb_120_style.txt ---> this is BluesChuffleHard variation 4, tempo 120.
2. Make a copy of this file so you can restore it later. E.G. BluesShuffleHard^4-HHDb,RideDb_120_style copy.txt
3. Open the file (not the copy, but the original) with a text editor (e.g. notepad) and search for the fill patterns . e.g. pattern,Fill,A,1,0,1,106 --> this is a fill that occurs in the A section (leading to either an A or B section). They are normally grouped together but there might be a few groups in the same text file.
4. Comment out all but one line of the fills by putting a semicolon at the start of the line, then save. Re-generate in BIAB and listen to the fill. Repeat for other fills as desired until you find the one(s) you don't like.
5. Comment only the ones you don't like, generate, and FREEZE the Drums track.
6. Restore the original text file (if you want, or alternatively continue using yours, but make a backup of it as it might get overwritten in an update.)
This would address the Fill bars but not necessarily the Postfill bars (the bar that the partmarker is on). Postfill tweaking would be much more complicated and you might end up with silent bars.
Well if there is a A-A drum fill or a B-B drum fill, then it must be subtle casue I can't hear it. I do hear A-B or B-A.
But nevertheless, if you have to jump through the hoops discribed here, you may want to check out EZDrummer3 and get the job done right the first time.
Well if there is a A-A drum fill or a B-B drum fill, then it must be subtle casue I can't hear it. I do hear A-B or B-A.
But nevertheless, if you have to jump through the hoops discribed here, you may want to check out EZDrummer3 and get the job done right the first time.
Would you post what style(s) you are using? I for one would like to check it/them out.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
First off, Wow! Thanks so much for all this great feedback. It's going to take me a bit to digest all these replies and respond. I will say that I have to disagree with the one suggestion/assertion that fills only occur when choosing a green part marker. I have written 15 or so songs in BIAB and found I get drum fills (as long as I allow them by right clicking the part marker) with either Blue-A or Green-B, but I agree that the change/fill is more pronounced when it's before a Green-B part marker, but still there for the Blue-A part. On this song I get them on either type of part marker, just not all of them, and when I re-generate and play, some appear where there were none, and others that were there before disappear. One new question: can a drum fill (which is supposed to be in the bar before the part marker) show up as JUST a single cymbal crash on the first beat of the bar with the part marker?? If so, then it is working, but certainly not what I'd call a fill/pick-up setting up the next bar.
Before addressing some of the other thoughts, suggestions and questions, let me give you some information on the song I'm working on with the issue: Style: CTRWZPS.STY Slow Country Waltz with Pedal Steel. It's in 3/4 time, and although the style tempo is 85, I upped it to 114 for my tune. Is that a possible problem? The RealDrums used are NashClassicWaltzSW^
If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to send you the .SGU file.
Again, many thanks to all who responded. I will reply in greater detail tomorrow, as well as report on my further experimenting. (Yes, I do keep looking for other ways to work around as I am still pretty much a novice) Thanks again!
2023 BIAB Ultrapak, Reaper, EZDrummer 2 & 3, Roland VS-2480, Tascam 38 Reel to Reel 8-Track
Testing a jazz style, I do hear fills for each part marker, including several in a row. I can turn off the fills before a part marker, and I can also force a fill where there is no part marker.
I think the subtlety in what you may be hearing is caused by where in the phrase you put the fill, or don't put the fill. I think, with no evidence other than my ears, that the drummer who recorded the RealDrum part just naturally is more likely to put some fill-like pattern every fourth bar, for example. You can ask for a fill in the first measure of a phrase leading to measure two, but it's not as musical and the drummer won't emphasize it.
It is worth more testing.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
At the moment you can't cop/cut/paste RealDrum sections like you can RealTracks. You can load the original RealDrum source file into a Utility track and set it's tempo if different to the project tempo, you can then cut/copy/paste sections, but it will be an attached wav file. Once non destructive editing is added all this will be just so easy to get what you want:
............................. One new question: can a drum fill (which is supposed to be in the bar before the part marker) show up as JUST a single cymbal crash on the first beat of the bar with the part marker?? If so, then it is working, but certainly not what I'd call a fill/pick-up setting up the next bar.
........................
Yes it can be just a cymbal crash or an extra drum hit depending on what style you are using. That is what I was referring to when I said "Now having said that some styles, mostly new age and train drumming, the drum fill may only be a cymbal hit or an extra drum hit" in a previous post. In other words not all drum fills are flashy.
PS - The best way to hear is to crank up the drum volume so it is the loudest track. It makes it easier to hear those subtle so called drum fills. That is what I did in all of my testing.
Last edited by MarioD; 03/18/2303:09 AM.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
1..create a new bb project separate from your song….lets call it Gonzo Drum Fills.GDF. 2..set GDF to same tempo as your song…and drum style(s) you want in song. 3..populate the bb chord sheet all over with x.d (x = song key it dont matter c or d or whatever). eg c.d means only play drums. 4..put markers everywhere you want…n' any pushes/stops you want etc.etc. 5..generate GDF to hear drum fills play back… then you can place the fills anywhere you want mate n' move em around.to see where the fills work best in the song against the song arrange bed traks.
Lots of great info there! Thanks! Regarding your first suggestion in BIAB, if I understand correctly, I should create a new project, i.e GonzoDrumFills.SGU, setting the time sig and tempo as with my original project. Then create a whole bunch of bars, populating each bar with something like "G.d". Then create numerous part markers wherever I want, and allow drum fills for them. Then use Generate and Play to hear the drums and fills play back. Do I have that so far? What I'm not sure I'm getting is how to move around the fills, and place them anywhere I want, and then how to get them into my song. I'm sure it's due to my inexperience but let me know if you can. Thanks again. Boots
2023 BIAB Ultrapak, Reaper, EZDrummer 2 & 3, Roland VS-2480, Tascam 38 Reel to Reel 8-Track
I tried making a test song using your choice of style, CTRWZPS.STY, at tempo 114.
First off, altering the tempo from expected doesn't seem to matter. RealDrums don't seem to have the same rules for stretching tempos, and they seem to seamlessly substitute something that works when you alter a tempo much from the expected base tempo.
My test song had all kinds of fills for A and B part markers, musically right and wrong, and they rarely made a difference. It's as if I'm the bandleader and I told the drummer what to play, he or she says OK, then plays whatever they were going to play anyway. Now, I'm not entirely kidding. It would really stand out in this simple drumming if any frills were added. At best, I hear an occasional light cymbal hit either on beat 3 before a measure with a part marker, or a slightly heavier cymbal crash on beat one of the measure with the part marker.
But I think I would have heard pretty much that same thing from this drummer no matter whether I inserted fills or not.
Bottom line, either this style just doesn't have fills to play, or less likely, there is something wrong with the programming of the style. As a jazz player, I'm not the one to judge.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
you can do this using either biab audio editor OR what i do is gen n' export a bunch of takes of a bb drum trak n' move em' around in a daw via dragging or move or cut/paste etc features…eg pg realband (rb).
SOOO what you could do is export a stereo guide from bb (without drums..) n' import into rb on a trak …n' then lets say you have 4 different gens of GDF…each of the 4 would import into 4 separate traks in rb (or any daw) for forming a final fills trak from the 4 imported. there are lots of ways. (eg rb has a usefull editor n' also bars view). but i dont have space to detail further. a lot is experimentation. (eg load bb c.d c.d…etc GDF sgu into rb n' gen more traks…you could also gen midi drum traks n' use a drum plug in for example.)...AND further.
2..specifically with ctrw style your using its not a 'busy' drum style with lotsa different drum sounds from what i see.. in this case if i want more busy sounds i use alternate drum styles to expose more sounds. eg more crashes etc etc. or toms…whatever. ..the other trik i use is i use drums from a totally different genre sometimes. in the drum picker youll see spread around many many drum sounds you can isolate from everything that dont interest you. then just edit em' in where you want in a daw. another trik WITHOUT DELETING ANYTHING is to go into the bb dir for all the drums n' at the end youll often find isolated drum HITS. JUST COPY THE DRUM FILE (DONT DELETE)..n' import into an audio editor and get the drum hit you like...…and read on…further...
3..its a looong process…BUT worth it…is to once a year i go thru' ALL bb real drums n' audition sounds loading into bb and genning in bb (WITHOUT TOUCHING THE BB DIR) ..THEN via editing in bb isolate the drum sounds you like and export and save to be used in various songs. essentially building up a lib of drum sounds. all just drum 'hits'....you can augment less busy styles with.
just some ideas.
ttfn/ymmv/hth/best
om
ps one thing i think would be neat in bb is to have 4 slots a user could load custom drum samples into n' have bb use them too in the genning process of fills.
It's a sign of my age, but I tend to repeat my self at times. But I always feel what I say is value added so, I use that has an excuse.
So here I go again, RDs are fantastic due primarily how fast you can get the groove and beat up and running. You don't need to know squat about drums and it still sounds good right out of the box. Not possible in any other software I am familar with. But, when you need that fill in that place, or that high hat over that beat or a crash or tom or cymble at a specific place in the song, you have to use a tool which has that capability. EZD3 is my tool of choice in those cases.
In Prefs make sure you have Multiple Instances set. Here I have 2 instances of Biab. One has the original song I need a custom drum track for it's bpm is 120, so in the second instance I load the original RealDrum wav or wma, the closest bpm was 110 so I set the second instance to 110bpm, I drag the track into the very start with Snap enabled, I go through and find the sections I need then highlight and Copy. I go to the first instance and paste it in the track but it's at the wrong bpm so I delete it then set the track bpm source audio to 110bpm, now I paste and it will fit. If you want hits from the end of the track you can take off of Snap then copy them then have it on Snap to paste, you have Paste (Mix) in the Edit menu or Ctrl+Shift+V this will mix the paste into the current section.
Justanoldmuso is correct with the exception this can be done without creating a new SGU file if there are any free tracks in the current BIAB project.
Musocity is also correct that "At the moment you can't cop/cut/paste RealDrum sections like you can RealTracks." but that doesn't mean that it can't be done in BIAB. Convert drum tracks to audio (Artist Performance Files) and RealDrums copy, cut and paste just like RealTracks. The last screenshot below is a series of drum fill pastes done this way. Note I extended the Chord Sheet beyond the end of the song of one chorus for 32 bars to 60 bars and filled the extra bars with shots, holds, rests and part markers to create drum fills on the drum tracks for editing and comping and the extra bars can be edited from the song at the final mixdown.
Note the BIAB Mixer in the screenshot has generated four different drum tracks and regions, sections, bars, fills and cymbal crashes can be copy, cut and pasted to a single track selected as the comp track that's been edited from the other three.
tbh if its a complex drum ttrak i'll use rb often…cos of the 48 traks with the gen features...ie gen loads of traks.
frankly i think a neat feature in bb/rb might be a SEPERATE FEATURE that specifically targets fills n' drum solos….and maybe also what might be 'groovy' might be let the user add via cels up to any combo of 8 further drum samples (from a user's own drum sample lib ?). with the right implementaion maybe this would save users buying other drum apps/libs...and thus save the pg users money. (maybe pg could inmcrease revenue by selling added drum sound 'packs' at budget prices ? )
AND THUS.... the programming in bb/rb that gens the drum traks ALSO looks at the cels and if samples are loaded THEN gen new drum traks not just using rd's but also the user inserted samples. but maybe there's some tech reason this can't be done.
dont get me wrong ...the commercial drum sample libs are fab...but from what ive seen...and its common to loads of sample libs one can spend lots of time going thru' the lib cos one finds lots of samples to like. so i purposely limit myself to the pg rd's cos when i'm in the song creation 'zone' i like to work fast. its the same reason i dont have lots of plug ins... cos i get stuck on which sounds to use cos they often are all great....SOOO i spend too much time going thru' em' all...and get no song done...lol.
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