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Before i go on with this let's just acknowledge that this is not a new subject, and that we are not truly in the drivers seat here! but here we go.
please cast a vote for one of the following options as to what you feel you would best appreciate and support for future annual upgrades for PGM products.
Band in a Box:
1. 50 new features and 212 new Real Tracks and some cool new styles. (business as usual)
2. 10 t0 20 upgraded current features (I.E. fix older bugs and complete recent Features) and 400 new RTs Loops, Midi loops and some cool new Styles.
examples of fixes and upgrades 255 bar limit fixed, VST3 completed, Tracks view editing upgraded to similar as in the audio edit window, Context menus cleaned up and redundancy removed. Time signatures expanded, RT/RDs enhanced to work with the aforementioned time sigs, GUI clean up, etc.
Please vote 1 or 2 (if you have a couple examples of feature upgrades feel free to add them to the list.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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2.
This is what I've recommended for several years. Even with the 'normal' number of new RealTracks, loops and styles, I think it would be the right way to go.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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This is a tough choice for me because the two choices don't offer much nuance. In the way that I use BiaB I either don't notice the bugs/clunkiness/dated feel or if I do notice I can live with it since I get out of BiaB and into my DAW as soon as possible. But on the other hand if the programmers could incorporate truly new and useful features then I think I'd be happy for years. [To be sure, I'm happy now.] I really don't need the "business as usual" with more pre-defined styles added onto the zillion styles we already have, many of which seem to be duplicates. Two noteworthy new features for me would be: a. an AI capability that can accept an audio file as input and create a BiaB "style" based on that audio file https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=101811&Number=770140b. the capability to craft or find a drum/percussion pattern similar to the EZDrummer capability https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=104862&Number=801236Forced to choose, my answer is 1 (but I don't need 50 new features or 212 more RealTracks)
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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BT, i hear you i do not dive too deep either. Still, what you are suggesting may be problematic. Imagine bolting fancy new AI on to older Dephi coding. Right now, even getting VST3 to work seems to be daunting. The new features we have seen in the past few years are just new ways of handing existing code and using existing features and altering them rather than adding anything that is coming from the AI world. I would worry that a brand-new AI based drum or pattern system may half work and take years to work out the bugs. This leaves long sought after issues unaddressed. Time will tell. Let's see what else is added to this conversation.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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I worry a little that the directions encouraging us to vote and then also list the examples of suggested feature upgrades compromise the value of the poll. This is not the Wishlist forum. This poll, placed in this forum, should elicit opinions from users about the general future direction rather than be a place for listing those suggested new features. [I do like that a couple of new features, like VST3, were cited to explain the two options.]
Indeed, if VST3 support were added to BIAB, as I understand it Bass Thumper could have his 2nd wish. And I do really like the 1st wish, just not here.
Steve may be more representative of BIAB users than I am, and he may already have most of what is needed to use BIAB to do what he wants to do. I happen to feel that some basic properties of BIAB seriously impede my ability to do my work, and I would rather take a halt on new features and enhance/fix the existing ones. I think that's what Rob is asking in the poll., and it's a valid question. Is that accurate?
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I vote for #2. But what is suggested would take a complete rewrite so I doubt it will ever happen.
It takes courage for a man to admit his wife was wrong.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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I vote #2 and it wouldn't even need "400 new RTs Loops, Midi loops and some cool new Styles"; I'd be happy with that part just being the normal "212 new Real Tracks and some cool new styles". I do think they need to add more variety to the RTs they are providing as new; so many seem like rehashes of existing ones.
IMPORTANT: If they released an upgrade and did not include new RTs I would def take a pass! At this point I only upgrade to get the new RTs.
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Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Jan - 12 Core AMD Ryzen 9 3900X
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BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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#2
Even if it took 2 - 3 years to finish all the bug fixes and upgrades to existing issues-- so no new features except the usual Realtracks. PGmusic could be developing a 2nd version of BIAB based on new code and AI during that time, even if it meant sub-contracting another company to do it.
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I think you have got to look at a way bigger picture to future proof it. Think a lot bigger than these 2 options.
PG need to initiate BIG things rather than waiting years down the track to play catch up, VST3 that's old now, DAW's have RealTimeSignatures, DAW's have more that 255 bars, Toontrack has RealTimeSignatures. Get out of the Time Warp, initiate something BIG NOW.
THINK BIG !
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#1 & #2 also just clean-up 2024 as it stands and plan something alongside what we have to get a complete functioning BiaB for 2025
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I worry a little that the directions encouraging us to vote and then also list the examples of suggested feature upgrades compromise the value of the poll. This is not the Wishlist forum. This poll, placed in this forum, should elicit opinions from users about the general future direction rather than be a place for listing those suggested new features. Matt, I agree. I also agree that the impetus behind this poll is important but there are some topics too broad to be effectively dealt with via a flurry of individual forum posts; forum posts that will likely become lost and forgotten in just a few short months if not sooner. Therefore, why not lead an effort with other seasoned “grey beards” and music experts to write an intelligent 4-page white paper? The purpose of the paper would be to document the strengths and weaknesses of BiaB and suggested goals from a user’s perspective. If even 6 pages is required, so what? The point would be to capture (and hopefully inform) users and PG staff how the program should evolve and why. Such a paper would have much more permanence and staying power compared to a forum thread. I wouldn’t let the lack of a website to contain the document prevent its creation. There are several solutions to the “dissemination problem” including simple email. The title of the paper could be something like “ An Analysis Of Music Creation Software And BiaB’s Role: 2024 and Beyond”, or similar. Some possible sections could be 1. Purpose of the Paper 2. BiaB’s Strengths 3. BiaB’s Weaknesses 4. The Needs of the Professional Musician 5. The Needs of the Amateur/Hobbyist Musician 6. The Needs of Gen Z and Gen Alpha 7. The Role of the DAW 8. Trends in Computer Programming Languages, Hardware Platforms and the Internet 9. The Present and Future Competitive Pressures Posed by the Marketplace 10. The Coming AI Sunami 11. Suggested Goals for BiaB 2025 12. Suggested Goals for BiaB 2030 13. Summary/Conclusion EDIT: Of course everything above would be based on publically available information. --Steve
Last edited by Bass Thumper; 05/13/24 04:05 AM.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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#2 (BIAB) - fix known bugs and common sense workflow improvements such as vertical full length cursor in track view, All Tracks Are Equal and few others come to mind. I am not going to mention obvious VST3 as it was said to be done before the end of the year.
--> Full focus on the Plugin as that's likely be the future.
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Why vote when pg does not care what you’re asking for?
WIN11 OS build 23H2, 16MB, 1TG SSD.
BIAB2024, build 1113, MegaPaK
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> when pg does not care what you’re asking for?
Not true.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Windows 11 Pro 64-bit (25H2), BiaB and Realband 2025, Studio One Pro 7 (latest release), Reason 12, Live 10, StudioLive Series III 32, Intel NUC 13 (Intel i5-1340P, Intel Iris Xe Graphics, 32GB RAM, 2TB SSD)
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> when pg does not care what you’re asking for?
Not true. But it can sometimes feel true. When that 255 bar limit has has requests for it to be increased dating back around 15 years and when 5/4 time has to be coerced with two BIAB bars for every bar of the song, and requests for broader support of less common measures also date back around 15 years. And when you post lots of stuff showing how to coerce BIAB into less common time signatures, it certainly can feel like PGM don't care.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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> when 5/4 time has to be coerced with two BIAB bars for every bar of the song
There’s a single function to set 5/4 for a number of bars. For example, to set it for the whole song, main menu - edit time signature and press whole song. And for shorter ranges select the range you want. That takes about 10 seconds to set your whole song to 5/4. And this will play with any style, any RealTracks and tempo etc.
> And when you post lots of stuff showing how to coerce BIAB into less common time signatures, it certainly can feel like PGM don't care.
Well that’s why I’m posting this information, so people are aware of what BiaB can do. It is trivial to setup a song in 5/4, 7/4, 6/8, 9/8, 12/8 and play them in any style.
Last edited by PeterGannon; 05/12/24 02:38 PM.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows is here and it is packed with major new features! There’s a new modern look, a GUI redesign to all areas of the program including toolbars, windows, workflow and more. There’s a Multi-view layout for organizing multiple windows. A standout addition is the powerful AI-Notes feature, which uses AI neural-net technology to transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI—entire mixes or individual instruments—making it easy to study, view, and play parts from any song. And that’s just the beginning—there are over 60 new features in this exciting release.
Along with version 2026, we've released an incredible lineup of new content! There's 202 new RealTracks, brand-new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two new RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
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Our Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK are loaded with amazing add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is included with most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows packages, but you can unlock even more—including 20 unreleased RealTracks—by upgrading to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49. Browse the full contents of each package and listen to demos here.
XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!
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Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!
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Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!
We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!
Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:
Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!
Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!
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