One where one song leads to the next in some kind of logical/artistic order? Difficulty, challenges & how you overcame those .. any input/advice? /or am I a dinosaur from days past? //there used to be something about some albums/CDs that just led you thru it, you wanted to finish the story ///forum seemed kind of dead so thought I might kick-start a conversation
We tried once; "3Forks" led into "Ol' Man of the Wood"s, led into "12" .. I think we may have started off on the wrong foot by making the first song 11/8 <smirk /> We came out of the gate scaring people!
Last edited by rharv; 09/20/2408:36 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!
Tommy. Quadrophenia Desperado Red headed stranger Dark side of the moon? Maybe not.
Just to name a few off the top of my head..... It's not easy to write a cohesive, well done, concept album. I had toyed with the idea a few times but wisely decided it was not going to happen.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
.. I had toyed with the idea a few times but wisely decided it was not going to happen.
That's why I thought it would be fun to ask. It's a way to tell a story (or part of your story). It was fun, and although not any kind of a 'success', we learned from it. Even if only to pay attention to how song leads to another (whether intentionally related or not). If you want a listener to hear the 3rd song, better not give them a reason to stop listening prior. (see original topic post regarding 11/8) We actually learned much more than that, some of it with humility, some with a dab of personal pride/satisfaction.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!
Well, my brother wrote lyrics for a 12 song rock opera, and I recorded demo tracks for it. He provided the story arc, which was a Sci Fi love story in the vein of Bride of Frankenstein. If that sounds wild, it was. Had a good time scoring it, and wrote each song in a different key until I had used them all. Agree that the concept is the hardest part, but when you have a committed lyricist, it can fall in place pretty quickly...
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One StudioCat DAW dual screen Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
[quote=rharv]One where one song leads to the next in some kind of logical/artistic order? Difficulty, challenges & how you overcame those .. any input/advice?/quote]
Howdy rharv....
Yes....I've been involved in (2) concept projects and working with only one other person. l wrote most of the songs/lyrics. 1) It's titled "Full Circle". This one is only (6) songs and is about life in the future. (1984 and took a couple months to finish) 2) It's titled "The Travels Of Qua'Zelar". This one is (12) songs about a "space traveler, adventurer". (1995....this one took longer) I haven't uploaded #1) but If remotely interested, I have #2 uploaded to youtube as an example:
I've not promoted it all because it surely has no commercial merit and only those like yourself interested in tackling a concept project would possibly be mildly curious or interested. It's a mix of songs & compositions.
It can be a daunting creative process and one has to be in it for the long haul Keeping the songs and lyrics interesting and focused on the project topic is paramount. In my opinion...it's lyrical imagery that is the most important aspect to keep in mind. Then song sequence needs to be determined. If you do have any questions I'll be glad to chime in.
I do have another concept project that is just me and not finished yet which is (6) songs. Several of the songs are close but still need more work Unfortunately, I may return to stardust before I do finish it. It's called "The Medieval Man" and the struggle to survive in medieval times. Here's one of the finished songs called "Dark Forest"...song #37 so you have to scroll down to the bottom of the list. https://www.soundclick.com/wayneevansproject/?content=songs
(EDIT: (4) songs from the video above are on this list also: Stops/Adversary/Fast As Fire/Guitars In The Storm and one song from the "Full Circle" project is on this list and called "Toy Guns")
Of course, whether a project of this nature is appealing and cohesive is up to any given listener and much can be open to personal interpretations. Personally, I just like to write from the imagination, my creative therapy, so to speak.
Hope that helps....keep us in the loop if you decide to tackle a project of this nature.
On the topic of tips and tricks, for the concept album I worked in my previous post I pretended I was staging a musical production. In my mind there was an actual stage and actors, and I blocked their actions in my head for each number including the non-musical parts. Also planned the transition from song to song just as I imagined it would be on stage. None of the staging actually happened of course, but I found the device useful, and it made the project more fun.
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One StudioCat DAW dual screen Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
Unless one is touring and has a merch table or is so big that they can get into Target or Walmart, how are albums of any kind relevant anymore?
Christmas or birthday gifts for family and friends. Singing group or vocal soloist has a set list of songs they perform in public.
I wasn’t asking about vanity projects. I have a nice business doing those and bought BIAB specifically to get my costs down so that I could offer a more attractive price while doing less work — one of the best decisions I ever made.
Point of sale for church and school groups is the same as a band having a merch table — it supports performance.
All this talk of concept CDs — for whom? What’s the audience and how does anyone intend to reach them? Sure, you can put it out on YouTube, Apple Music etc, but how do you drive anyone to listen and buy?
I have a client who’s spent $10K (not with me) and in the hole for the same amount to myself and others on an album with a ‘concept” that only he understands. Now he wants me to distribute it — how? The album is dead and the music industry is song based, these days. Since he no longer performs and hasn’t had a release since 1990 when we were touring and it was for the merch table, there’s no avenue, no audience except for 10s of fans in the US and Europe. Yea, I can run off CDs and maybe sell 50 or 75 while giving away an equal number. I’ll never see a dime and the tracking studios will have to be content with 50¢ on the dollar that they’ve received except mine as I have never been paid for any of this. Oh yea, he doesn’t do social media.
I’ll get some traction on a few of the songs but he keeps insisting that it be released as an album. Since he has no money for a PR campaign, the best I can do is wish him luck.
Concept albums are a personal endeavor, it may just be that the intended audience is not commercial. I mean, if it happens, cool. I did it for personal gratification and would not have spent $10k. Your example is not the intended recipient of my post.
Some of us do this for fun too! Not just $$
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!
Concept albums are a personal endeavor, it may just be that the intended audience is not commercial. I mean, if it happens, cool. I did it for personal gratification and would not have spent $10k. Your example is not the intended recipient of my post.
Some of us do this for fun too! Not just $$
Sometimes what we want, perhaps need, is the challenge.
It's something that I hadn't really fully recognised in myself until I took redundancy from a role 20 years ago and was both looking at business options and also, as an alternative for a job that I might want to do. I was actually quite shocked at for how many of the latter my reaction was "where's the challenge in that?"
I presently have three ideas for narrative constructions of series of songs, cf 'concept albums', though at present I still struggle to get going due to the effects of my depression. What I would do, though, even with such a narrative, it try also to make each song capable of standing alone. I don't have any illusions that anyone is likely to buy such a narrative collection, but I think the challenge may be good for me.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2024 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
Exactly. That's a good part of the challenge; making each song be able to stand alone. And if the whole collection is listened to, it has even more meaning. This is another great thing to point out.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!
This is a nice thread and I'm fascinated by the way the onion is being peeled.
Episodic TV (which I rarely watch) has a related challenge: Independent episodes where viewers can drop in or out at any time, or season-long story arcs where some knowledge of the previous episodes is needed to understand the proceedings. The best episodic TV seems to blend the two by having a long arc while maintaining the ability of the viewer to catch up quickly if episodes have been missed. It's a subtle thing, but I tend to notice it. Movie sequels work in a similar way to indulge the fans while indulging the newbies.
At any rate, the notion of concept album songs being able to stand on their own resonates with me.
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One StudioCat DAW dual screen Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
Things I learned by doing this exercise: never start out 'over the top' (with something in some odd time signature or anything else that may not actually draw the listener in) Pay attention to tempo and key signature (and their relationship); if you are going to morph from up-tempo to slow, maybe use a relative minor on the latter. Otherwise you can lose some listeners.Key changes can have a purpose Keep the lyrics interesting/relatable throughout (the one thing we did right, thanks to Barry) I'm sure there's more, but those are some.
Last edited by rharv; 09/28/2409:20 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!
Episodic TV (which I rarely watch) has a related challenge: Independent episodes where viewers can drop in or out at any time, or season-long story arcs where some knowledge of the previous episodes is needed to understand the proceedings. The best episodic TV seems to blend the two by having a long arc while maintaining the ability of the viewer to catch up quickly if episodes have been missed. It's a subtle thing, but I tend to notice it. Movie sequels work in a similar way to indulge the fans while indulging the newbies.
Even though I will most likely never write a concept album, this makes a lot of sense to me and is easy to remember. Thanks
I don't typically jump into1 these types of discussions, but I found this interesting enough drop a few words.
I put a 10-track, themed album together about 15 years ago with wich I was quite happy. I originally called it "Sounds Of The City" . But I'm considering renaming in "When The City Speaks". It's all instrumentals representing times and events, in chronicalogical order, that that mark the progression of a typical, big-city day. It begins with "Morning Sunrise" and ends with "As The City Sleeps".
I don't work with midi very often because I'm not very proficient at using it, but this entire project was created with midi. I used multiple genres. All total, it took me about 5 months. It was a learning experience, for sure.
Good luck to all of you with whatever music projects you might be working on or will start.
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