Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread
Print Thread
Go To
Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,342
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,342
I’m seeking a stem separation software program that can finally meet my needs. I’m assuming the state-of-the-art is there; but I could be wrong and another year or two may be needed for this technology to mature.

My experience with SongMaster Pro (ver 2.1) has so far, been lackluster in this regard. When separating the bass I have found the resulting audio often sounds warbly and squishy and even has regions of no music at all when I know music should be there.

Here are some applications in no particular order that I understand can do at least a limited level of separation.

SongMaster Pro
Voice.ai Stem Splitter
Gaudio Studio
AuDimix
Ultimate Vocal Remover
Splitter AI
LALAL.AI
iZotope RX
RipX Daw
Spectralayers
Melodyne
Acon Digital Remix
Moises

Eventually, my final goal here is to produce quality bass tabs of songs I want to learn. Bass separation would be step #1 followed by (a different?) software to produce a tab from the stem. For me, a great solution would be if my DAW (Studio One) had this capability built-in but I'm not holding my breath.

Has anyone found an application that can extract bass stems you are actually happy with across at least 2 or 3 different genres? FWIW, I'd prefer a stand-alone program as opposed to a website for this.

If no, is anyone interested in doing a semi-deep dive on this subject offline?

Last edited by Bass Thumper; Yesterday at 04:54 PM.

https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677
BiaB 2024 Windows
For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 489
B
Journeyman
Offline
Journeyman
B
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 489
You forgot Rip X Daw

You can watch some of examples from this Video How Harmonies work He is using Rip X in this video.

Last edited by Brian Hughes; 10/02/24 08:46 AM.

BIAB 2024 Ultrapack- Studio One Pro 6.5 Windows 11

Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,342
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,342
Originally Posted by Brian Hughes
You forgot Rip X Daw
Thanks, I added it to my list.
Have you used it to separate bass?


https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677
BiaB 2024 Windows
For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 26,247
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 26,247
I do not need to 'use' the stems in any further form; I only use Song Master Pro to hear them isolated when there is some question while I transcribe a song.

I cannot speak about all those other programs you listed, but I thought they all use the Spleeter technology, so I would be surprised if they produce markedly different results. That's just a guess, however.


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Off-Topic
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,385
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,385
Originally Posted by Matt Finley
I do not need to 'use' the stems in any further form; I only use Song Master Pro to hear them isolated when there is some question while I transcribe a song.

I cannot speak about all those other programs you listed, but I thought they all use the Spleeter technology, so I would be surprised if they produce markedly different results. That's just a guess, however.

I have a number of Spleeter based apps including Ozone 11 Advanced. Spleeter doesn't do a good job separating the bass from the harmonics in the other instruments. Nothing does, really. Not hearing a bass line well enough to transcribe has never been my problem, however.

Steinberg's Spectralayers Pro does a better job but nothing is great on bass.

I used Spectralayers on a live recording I did about 25 years ago for a new recording of the same song. I was able to extract the voice of a friend who had passed away in 2008 to blend him into the chorus. On listening, I realized that my upright bass was at a similar tempo and, if isolated, would be nice to include it. My handicap precludes me from ever playing a string bass of any kind again.

I had to give up after a few hours — just couldn't get the track clean enough to re-use. Easier to play it again using VIs.


BIAB 2024 Audiophile, 24Core/60CoreGPU Core M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro
Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion/Overture
Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,342
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,342
So far, FWIW, the consensus seems to be that the technology simply isn't there yet.

No doubt, to do this right is a herculean challenge. Imagine a song with a heavy kick drum, low-end piano and keyboard, maybe some tuba or trombone plus bass guitar; all hovering around the same frequency band. It really is asking a lot for an AI code to find and isolate the bass guitar "needle" in a giant low-end and time-changing "haystack".

That said, I believe it's just a matter of time before it's done and done well. The basis of my optimism is how LLMs have taken the computer community by storm; truly amazing, especially in medical applications.

I'm guessing that this will require a minimum 2-step process. Step #1 to isolate (as best it can) the bass instruments, in part by it's frequency content to produce a "pre-stem". Then Step #2 (the hard part) is to take that pre-stem and apply a musical knowledge to remove everything that isn't bass guitar. What remains would be the desired bass stem.

I believe that David Cuny first said that PGMusic would be well-positioned to do this kind of work because BiaB could be used to create training data sets for such an AI program.. Each data set would be made up of "the problem" (a song containing a bunch of overlapping low-frequency instruments) and "the solution" (the crystal-clear bass track). But you couldn't do this manually. You'd need to create a program to automatically create these sets by the thousands if not millions across a handful of instrument lists, genres, keys and tempos.

Thanks for mentioning Spectralayers, I added it to the list above.


https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677
BiaB 2024 Windows
For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 26,247
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 26,247
Steve, I agree with your conclusion but since it is a technique in its relative infancy, I hope we will see improvement. It may never get to the point where it gets everything right, and you gave one good example.

While the isolated bass line may sound rather poor in Song Master Pro, there can be a benefit in having it muted if you want to hear the rest of the mix more easily, or use the track as a music-minus-one for bass.

Hearing the bass line certainly isn't any problem for me either, Mike, but if a tool exists to make it easier, why not use it?


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 489
B
Journeyman
Offline
Journeyman
B
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 489
Not just bass no. I separate the entire song to hear all the parts of a song I want to learn. The program has a couple of versions I believe and is quite powerful. I don't think it is perfect by any means but considering this was considered impossible some time ago. It was like how to un-bake a cake. For Mac users with Logic Pro 11 this feature is built into the software if you have a M chip.
I only use this program to dissect a songs parts to learn what it is doing. I do not use any of the parts itself.


BIAB 2024 Ultrapack- Studio One Pro 6.5 Windows 11

Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,342
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,342
Originally Posted by Matt Finley
. . . there can be a benefit in having it muted if you want to hear the rest of the mix more easily, or use the track as a music-minus-one for bass.
I hear ya Matt, I frequently "mute" the bass in Studio One using Pro EQ when I want to record bass over popular songs I like; basically high-pass filtering. This has served me well for years even back to my early Audacity days. Of course, no stem extraction is being applied in doing this but it does work well for its intended purpose.


https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677
BiaB 2024 Windows
For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
Off-Topic
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,385
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,385
Quote
Hearing the bass line certainly isn't any problem for me either, Mike, but if a tool exists to make it easier, why not use it?

I wasn't directing that at you. Are you trying to make bass TAB?


BIAB 2024 Audiophile, 24Core/60CoreGPU Core M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro
Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion/Overture
Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 26,247
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 26,247
Originally Posted by Mike Halloran
Are you trying to make bass TAB?
Never touch the stuff.


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 349
Journeyman
Offline
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 349
I am surprised that no one has mentioned Melodyne yet. I use it when transcribing bass lines. I really don't have any use for isolated bass stems. I want to get an accurate transcription of the bass line, and then practice to the complete song, playing along with the original bass player. I have Melodyne Studio, so I can't tell you what the minimum version needs to be to get the different audio sources separated.

Melodyne is great for determining what is a bass note and what is a note from another instrument. If there are two notes close to each other in the piano roll view, just click on each blob to hear it and identify it. Melodyne is especially useful when dealing with microtonal sounds, like you could get from a double bass note played between "fret" positions.

For example, identifying the first two notes from Michael Arnopol's superb bass line In Patricia Barber's "Too Rich For My Blood" drove me nuts until I used Melodyne. I just couldn't get the right sound for those two notes on any my fretted basses. It turned out that the first note was 50 cents sharp, the second note was 25 cents sharp and the remainder of the 8 minute bass line was in a spot on F major. I came close with a fretted bass using a 1/2 bend for the first note and a 1/4 bend for the second, but it wasn't a smooth transition.

Being able to see the bass line blobs in Melodyne on the piano roll makes creating the bass line notation for a given song easy. Creating the tab after that takes some time playing through it and figuring out where you want to be on the neck for any given section.

It may be possible sometime in the future to have software generate an accurate notation of a single instrument from a band or orchestra performance, but automatic generation of the best tab from the notation won't happen any time soon, IMO.

Last edited by TheMaartian; 10/03/24 12:51 AM.

ThinkPad i9 32GB RAM 7TB SSD; Win11 Pro; RME Fireface UCX II; BiaB 2024 Ultra
Bitwig Studio 5; Studio One Pro 6; Melodyne Studio 5; Acoustica Premium 7
Gig Performer 5; NI S61 MK3; Focal Shape 65; Beyerdynamic DT 880 & 770
Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,342
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,342
Originally Posted by TheMaartian
I am surprised that no one has mentioned Melodyne yet. I use it when transcribing bass lines.

It may be possible sometime in the future to have software generate an accurate notation of a single instrument from a band or orchestra performance, but automatic generation of the best tab from the notation won't happen any time soon, IMO.
Hey Maartian, thanks for your very thoughtful reply; I added Melodyne to the list above so to be visible in the coming days and weeks for anyone else interested in this subject. You are way further down the musical road than I am.

Am I correct that your method is to view the entire mix (all instruments) in "blob format" and upon playback you're basically slowly and manually moving from blob to blob to identify bass notes? And then once identified you decide where on the fretboard to place that note on your tab? If yes, I'd say that's Melodyne-assisted manual transcription, a skill that I'd have to develop.

FWIW, on many songs I want to learn I'll print the chord sheet and play only the root to verify my chord sheet is accurate; this gives me an idea of where on the fretboard I'm operating. If required, I'll start this at 10 or 20 BPM slower than the original. Then I'll slowly increase the complexity as required by adding the 5th, then arpeggios, then small fills/runs until I'm somewhat satisfied to claim "victory". I suppose this too is manual transcription, but not nearly as advanced as what you do. Of course, my basslines will always pale compared to the pro in the band. And so I'm looking for a better, minimal effort and maximal accuracy method to up my game.


https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677
BiaB 2024 Windows
For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 26,247
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 26,247
I also overlooked one: Acon Digital Remix. It's a plugin for VST, VST3, or ProTools. It's made by the same folks who make Acoustica 7, the stereo editor I use now.


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 349
Journeyman
Offline
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 349
Originally Posted by Matt Finley
I also overlooked one: Acon Digital Remix. It's a plugin for VST, VST3, or ProTools. It's made by the same folks who make Acoustica 7, the stereo editor I use now.
I totally forgot I had a license for this. It's in the Tools tab of Acoustica Premium. Thanks for the reminder!


ThinkPad i9 32GB RAM 7TB SSD; Win11 Pro; RME Fireface UCX II; BiaB 2024 Ultra
Bitwig Studio 5; Studio One Pro 6; Melodyne Studio 5; Acoustica Premium 7
Gig Performer 5; NI S61 MK3; Focal Shape 65; Beyerdynamic DT 880 & 770
Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 349
Journeyman
Offline
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 349
Originally Posted by Bass Thumper
Originally Posted by TheMaartian
I am surprised that no one has mentioned Melodyne yet. I use it when transcribing bass lines.

It may be possible sometime in the future to have software generate an accurate notation of a single instrument from a band or orchestra performance, but automatic generation of the best tab from the notation won't happen any time soon, IMO.
...
Am I correct that your method is to view the entire mix (all instruments) in "blob format" and upon playback you're basically slowly and manually moving from blob to blob to identify bass notes? And then once identified you decide where on the fretboard to place that note on your tab? If yes, I'd say that's Melodyne-assisted manual transcription, a skill that I'd have to develop.
...
Yes, that's basically correct. In most cases, it's pretty obvious which blobs are the bass notes. It's only when the bassist is playing near the bridge on the D or G strings that notes from another instrument like a guitar or piano can make it confusing. That's the only time I need to audition the blobs. Also, I make no attempt to go straight to tab. The first step is to transcribe the bass line to notation. That is unambiguous. An A5 is an A5. But there are several A5's on the fretboard. I start working through the bass line notation and figure out where I want to be on the neck and then develop the tab from there (if I even want/need to create at tab).

Last edited by TheMaartian; Yesterday at 01:22 AM.

ThinkPad i9 32GB RAM 7TB SSD; Win11 Pro; RME Fireface UCX II; BiaB 2024 Ultra
Bitwig Studio 5; Studio One Pro 6; Melodyne Studio 5; Acoustica Premium 7
Gig Performer 5; NI S61 MK3; Focal Shape 65; Beyerdynamic DT 880 & 770
Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,342
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,342
Originally Posted by Matt Finley
I also overlooked one: Acon Digital Remix.
I never heard of this one, thanks.
We have quite a list. Assuming these applications represent different software teams and that these teams continue to maintain their products, there's a bunch of people working this problem which tells me that major progress is quite likely.

Also, for you 6-string guitarists and maybe banjo players?, in principal, what we're talking about here could benefit you too.


https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677
BiaB 2024 Windows
For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,342
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,342
FWIW, I recently became aware of another player in this space; Moises.
So I tested it out on a song and the bass separation is roughly the same as SongMaster Pro . . . lackluster.


https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677
BiaB 2024 Windows
For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Go To

Link Copied to Clipboard
ChatPG

Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.

ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.

PG Music News
New! XPro Styles PAK 7 for Band-in-a-Box 2024 for Mac!

We've just released XPro Styles PAK 7 with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 50 RealTracks and RealDrums that are sure to delight!

With XPro Styles PAK 7 you can expect 25 rock & pop, 25 jazz, and 25 country styles, as well as 25 of this year's wildcard genre: Celtic!

Here's a small sampling of what XPro Styles PAK 7 has to offer: energetic rock jigs, New Orleans funk, lilting jazz waltzes, fast Celtic punk, uptempo train beats, gritty grunge, intense jazz rock, groovy EDM, soulful R&B, soft singer-songwriter pop, country blues rock, and many more!

Special Pricing! Until September 30, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 7 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea)! Supercharge your Band-in-a-Box 2024® with XPro Styles PAK 7! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.

Watch the XPro Styles PAK 7 Overview & Styles Demos video.

XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2024 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.

New! Xtra Styles PAK 18 for Band-in-a-Box 2024 for Mac!

Xtra Styles PAK 18 for Band-in-a-Box version 2024 is here with 200 brand new styles to take for a spin!

Along with 50 new styles each for the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, we’ve put together a collection of styles using sounds from the SynthMaster plugin!

In this PAK you'll find: dubby reggae grooves, rootsy Americana, LA jazz pop, driving pop rock, mellow electronica, modern jazz fusion, spacey country ballads, Motown shuffles, energetic EDM, and plenty of synth heavy grooves! Xtra Style PAK 18 features these styles and many, many more!

Special Pricing! Until September 30, 2024, all the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 18 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea)! Expand your Band-in-a-Box 2024® library with Xtra Styles PAK 18! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 18 here.

Watch the Xtra Styles PAK 18 Overview & Styles Demos video.

Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 18 requires the 2024 UltraPAK/UltraPAK+/Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

New! Xtra Styles PAK 18 for Band-in-a-Box 2024 for Windows!

Xtra Styles PAK 18 for Band-in-a-Box version 2024 is here with 200 brand new styles to take for a spin!

Along with 50 new styles each for the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, we’ve put together a collection of styles using sounds from the SynthMaster plugin!

In this PAK you'll find: dubby reggae grooves, rootsy Americana, LA jazz pop, driving pop rock, mellow electronica, modern jazz fusion, spacey country ballads, Motown shuffles, energetic EDM, and plenty of synth heavy grooves! Xtra Style PAK 18 features these styles and many, many more!

Special Pricing! Until September 30, 2024, all the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 18 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea)! Expand your Band-in-a-Box 2024® library with Xtra Styles PAK 18! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 18 here.

Watch the Xtra Styles PAK 18 Overview & Styles Demos video.

Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 18 requires the 2024 UltraPAK/UltraPAK+/Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

New! XPro Styles PAK 7 for Band-in-a-Box 2024 for Windows!

We've just released XPro Styles PAK 7 with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 50 RealTracks and RealDrums that are sure to delight!

With XPro Styles PAK 7 you can expect 25 rock & pop, 25 jazz, and 25 country styles, as well as 25 of this year's wildcard genre: Celtic!

Here's a small sampling of what XPro Styles PAK 7 has to offer: energetic rock jigs, New Orleans funk, lilting jazz waltzes, fast Celtic punk, uptempo train beats, gritty grunge, intense jazz rock, groovy EDM, soulful R&B, soft singer-songwriter pop, country blues rock, and many more!

Special Pricing! Until September 30, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 7 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea)! Supercharge your Band-in-a-Box 2024® with XPro Styles PAK 7! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.

Watch the XPro Styles PAK 7 Overview & Styles Demos video.

XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2024 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.

Video - Band-in-a-Box® DAW Plugin Version 6 for Mac®: New Features for Reaper

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 includes built-in specific support for the Reaper® DAW API, allowing direct transfer of Band-in-a-Box® files to/from Reaper tracks, including tiny lossless files of instructions which play audio instantly from disk.

We demonstrate the new Reaper features in the Band-in-a-Box® VST DAW Plugin 6.0 in our video, Band-in-a-Box® DAW Plugin Version 6 for Mac®: New Features for Reaper

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Mac® - Update Today!

Already grabbed your copy of Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Mac®? Head to our Support Page to download build 803 and update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 installation with the latest version developed by our team!

Learn more & download now.

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Mac® Video - Over 50 New Features and Enhancements!

Read all about the 50+ newest features in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Mac®, or you can watch our video "Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Mac®: Over 50 New Features and Enhancements!" to see it in action!

Forum Statistics
Forums65
Topics82,884
Posts750,562
Members38,927
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
Newest Members
DMD, Cutta, shandrakeeb, One Box Band, Ninjasef
38,926 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
DC Ron 124
rsdean 113
BYOBand 93
MarioD 93
dcuny 80
vicarn 79
Today's Birthdays
Jim Fogle
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5